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aftershocks

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As a Nathan fan, this sounds oh-so-familiar. No one has been claiming Alysa is a savior or an only hope. People just seem to feel compelled to argue that she isn't. Why? Because she's bringing one of the hardest jumps in ladies' international skating to the table? ...

Whether seriously or sarcastically, TSL's Dave Lease made the claim recently, which is why the topic came up in this thread. You can of course regard Dave Lease as 'no one,' and simply ignore his utterances as suggested earlier by another poster. :p Of course, even without the recent claim there'd still be reason and opportunity for Alysa to be discussed here with admiration and anticipation. And her recent performances would obviously still be admiringly discussed. Perhaps the OTT hype, chiefly from a certain quarter, is meant to grab attention which is fine. The particular claim in question obviously didn't originate from Alysa's camp.

I'm not sure whom you are referencing when you mention 'People...' ;) I do not see anyone arguing about Dave's claim. There have been a few comments, but no arguing. I do think Dave's claim is OTT for any junior or young up-and-coming senior at this point. But again, I'm certainly not 'arguing' that Alysa won't make it to the top or that she won't in the foreseeable future help to lead the U.S. ladies' discipline forward. That's obviously a distinct possibility. Still, I feel more comfortable keeping any over-expectations in check, for the moment at least. To each their own comfort zone. :D

I'm a long-time Nathan Chen fan, but I've never seen him as a 'savior' for U.S. men, regardless of his amazing quad feats and the resultant media over-hype and expectations in the lead-up to the Olympics. OTOH, much of the criticism I've seen bandied about regarding Nathan appears to originate mostly from fans of his top rivals.

Your posted clip of the young Russian ladies skater performing the quad-triple-triple combo is obviously impressive (especially for those who love the uber-acrobatic directions the sport is increasingly taking). However, to use your earlier cautionary phrasing, it's also "a practice video." Hopefully, she won't seriously damage any body parts or burn out before or after she makes it to seniors (if she makes it to seniors).

IMO, it pays to sometimes take a step back and look at the sport through a lens grounded in historical perspective and leavened more through unbiased reflections and continual openness to learning; less through heat-of-the-moment analyses.
 
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Frida80

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Before we get to carried away, let's just talk about the rotation first. Club competitions are notorious for not calling jumps. I haven't slow-mo it yet, but I can see the last part of the rotation on the ice.

I've seen clean ones from her, so I'm sure she'll get better with time. I'm just saying it looks under to me.
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,606
@Frida80 I haven't seen her do one at the rink (I'm always at the rink too early or on the wrong days), but I've heard they're good in practice. The ice at the rink where this competition was tends to be on the very soft side as opposed to the rinks she usually trains (Oakland, Fremont, SJ) at that have harder ice. It's also smaller than most ice surfaces. Both probably mean she's going a lot slower into those jumps than normal. So while it's under, I'd like to see video of her doing one on a better ice surface.
 

just wondering

Active Member
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318
Gosh! Super exciting that we are analyzing ice conditions, rotations, rink size, choreography in & out of a 3A by a 12 year old female from the US. Regardless of how Alysa's career rolls out, it's a great sign that she is upping the tech bar for all US up & comers.
Really good stuff!
Go get it Alysa!
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
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Yeah, upping the tech by a 12-year-old is all kinds of what the sport sorely needs in spades. :COP: I think the importance is in paying equal attention to developing tech skills, blade mastery, performance abilities, and competitive strengths

Kudos to Alysa for doing what she can do and working hard to enjoy living her dreams of moving to the top of the skating world. Tech and athleticism are important, but there are other things that have to happen as well to support and nurture her talent and to maintain her health. She also needs to continue on pace developing her performance skils, which are good for this stage of her career.
 

Tinami Amori

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20,156
Before we get to carried away, let's just talk about the rotation first. Club competitions are notorious for not calling jumps. I haven't slow-mo it yet, but I can see the last part of the rotation on the ice.

I've seen clean ones from her, so I'm sure she'll get better with time. I'm just saying it looks under to me.
Alysa's jumps look clean to me... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuUHveW-oCo
and she can challenge the boys.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VQKZdBrAm0
 

Tinami Amori

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Guys, i usually don't watch Novice/Juv levels, so can someone please tell me who this girl is? She caught my eye accidentally in a youtube stream and i found her to be excellent. Is she doing well compared to other girls? who is her trainer? I thought she was a russian girl before i read her name... (thanks in advance, if anyone can answer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhRQkWLyYrA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktFU9hLmuIM
 

Willin

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2,606
@Tinami Amori Well, to make it to Juvenile nationals you have to be amazing - that's a crazy competitive level since it's the level or two before a lot of people start quitting for various reasons. And she won the gold!
 

mag

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12,198
Yeah, upping the tech by a 12-year-old is all kinds of what the sport sorely needs in spades. :COP: I think the importance is in paying equal attention to developing tech skills, blade mastery, performance abilities, and competitive strengths

Kudos to Alysa for doing what she can do and working hard to enjoy living her dreams of moving to the top of the skating world. Tech and athleticism are important, but there are other things that have to happen as well to support and nurture her talent and to maintain her health. She also needs to continue on pace developing her performance skils, which are good for this stage of her career.

I don’t understand your comment. Are you suggesting her team is not paying attention to “...other things that have to happen as well to support and nurture her talent and to maintain her health...”

If that isn’t what you are suggesting, you might want to edit your post. The “but” certainly implies that you think they are not. There is no evidence that I have seen that would suggest that.
 

skatfan

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8,409
Yeah, upping the tech by a 12-year-old is all kinds of what the sport sorely needs in spades. :COP: I think the importance is in paying equal attention to developing tech skills, blade mastery, performance abilities, and competitive strengths

Kudos to Alysa for doing what she can do and working hard to enjoy living her dreams of moving to the top of the skating world. Tech and athleticism are important, but there are other things that have to happen as well to support and nurture her talent and to maintain her health. She also needs to continue on pace developing her performance skils, which are good for this stage of her career.

I do know her coach a bit and I know that she is very focused on Alysa first as a person, then an athlete.

That performance is all kinds of amazing for this time of year. No falls, clean footwork, a triple axel combo (!) (under but landed), and a triple/triple in the 2nd half, not to mention her level four spins. Jaw dropping.
 

Sylvia

TBD
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80,273
Guys, i usually don't watch Novice/Juv levels, so can someone please tell me who this girl is? She caught my eye accidentally in a youtube stream and i found her to be excellent. Is she doing well compared to other girls?
Isabeau Levito won the 2018 U.S. Juvenile Girls gold medal in San Jose this past December at the age of 10 and she is skating at the Intermediate level this season (currently has the 3rd highest known total score at this early point of the club competition season: https://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/top-ten/ )
who is her trainer?
Her coach is Yulia Kuznetsova, but I don't know anything about her (just did a quick search online).
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
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17,317
I don’t understand your comment. Are you suggesting her team is not paying attention to “...other things that have to happen as well to support and nurture her talent and to maintain her health...”

If that isn’t what you are suggesting, you might want to edit your post. The “but” certainly implies that you think they are not. There is no evidence that I have seen that would suggest that.

Eh @mag, thanks for weighing in with your assumptions and confusion about my previous post. You are the one 'suggesting' what you have read into my post. :p

I merely responded to @just wondering's enthusiastic post with my own cautionary reflections about the importance of well-rounded attention to all aspects of skill development for Alysa and for any young jumping phenom. My comments do not 'suggest' that is not happening for Alysa, just that it's necessary. Clearly, it's my opinion that there are crucial factors in the training process which fans often don't discuss because the focus and excitement inevitably centers around jumping feats. Attention to well-rounded skills training is a very important part of the process for any skater which often takes a back-seat in fan commentary due to the sport's extreme focus on acrobatic skills. We see that reflected in the scoring system and it's ongoing complications, misapplications, manipulations and continual rules changes.

Obviously, you know a lot about the development of a young skater's talent as you've pointed out on many occasions. I appreciate your knowledge and I agree with some of your views. None of us are always in agreement, which is certainly not unusual on fs fan forums. Meanwhile, I will continue to post my reflections and opinions and you can continue to interject, misconstrue, misinterpret, read into, and demand clarification. :COP::D

I don't know a great deal about Alysa, and that's why I brought her up in this thread (after hearing Dave of TSL make a suspect comment), which in part led to some of the ongoing analyses of Liu's remarkable talent, particularly after her recent performance videos were posted. I'm still not going to get over-excited about Liu's talent and bright prospects at this stage of her young career, which of course does not mean no one else can't, shouldn't, or won't. :drama:

An interesting discussion nonetheless and Liu's talent deserves to be talked about (of course minus too much over-hype IMO). In any case this is, at least for the moment, great fodder for the off-season.

Carry on. :watch:
 

aftershocks

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@Tinami Amori Well, to make it to Juvenile nationals you have to be amazing - that's a crazy competitive level since it's the level or two before a lot of people start quitting for various reasons. And she won the gold!

Isabeau Levito won the 2018 U.S. Juvenile Girls gold medal in San Jose this past December at the age of 10 and she is skating at the Intermediate level this season (currently has the 3rd highest known total score at this early point of the club competition season: https://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/top-ten/ )

Her coach is Yulia Kuznetsova, but I don't know anything about her (just did a quick search online).

Thanks for checking @Sylvia, and thanks for posting the vids @Tinami Amori. So there's another young U.S. phenom to discuss. :D Now we know it's Isabeau Levito's coach who is Russian, which surely has impacted Levito's look on the ice, added to her own precocious abilities. But then there's never been any lack of talent among U.S. ladies. Just a sea change in the sport on a number of levels post-MK era that's impacted U.S. ladies' competitive trajectory.

I suppose TSL's Lease hasn't spied Levito yet. I can't wait until he does. :watch: :lol:

It will be fun to see how both Liu and Levito progress. They are both talented and different. And it's still dicey to go OTT with over-expectations for very young skaters. I wish the best for these young ladies and their parents on the journeys ahead of them.

I do know her coach a bit and I know that she is very focused on Alysa first as a person, then an athlete.

Thanks @skatfan. That's good to hear. The journey is never easy for figure skaters, but a good foundation provided by an excellent and caring coach can make a huge difference down the road.
 

sjs5572

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Messages
399
Alysa has a club competition in Paramount, CA this weekend and Broadmoor next weekend. Excited to see her continued progress. I almost never go to Nationals on non-olympics years, and I already have my room booked for Detroit just to see Alysa.
 

aftershocks

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17,317
Alysa has a club competition in Paramount, CA this weekend and Broadmoor next weekend. Excited to see her continued progress. I almost never go to Nationals on non-olympics years, and I already have my room booked for Detroit just to see Alysa.

Enjoy! :) With the amount of money tickets cost these days I'm sure you're gonna appreciate all the other exciting action you will see, besides Ms. Liu. Good that she has you inspired though.

For me, regardless of what year it is in the over-emphasized 'next Olympics quad,' U.S. Nationals is always filled with drama, must-see skaters, and unexpected happenings among all disciplines. :watch:

I guess I'll need to catch Detroit, since it appears that U.S. Nats is not returning to Cleveland anytime soon. :(
 

DimaToe

Retired by Frank Carroll
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Alysa has a club competition in Paramount, CA this weekend and Broadmoor next weekend. Excited to see her continued progress. I almost never go to Nationals on non-olympics years, and I already have my room booked for Detroit just to see Alysa.

Didn’t know she would be at Broadmoor. At most that’s a 1.5 hour drive for me to might make the trip down there.
 

aftershocks

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Apparently it's been known for some time that Winnetka IL coach, Jeremy Allen, has been guiding Bradie Tennell along with her main coach, Denise Myers. Here's a local hometown feature article in the lead-up to the Olympics:
https://jwcdaily.com/2018/02/01/winnetka-coach-guides-u-s-skater-bradie-tennell/

TSL's Dave Lease was up to his usual 'in-the-know' tidbit-dropping in the latest episode when he mentioned in passing that Bradie is now perhaps going to utilize Jeremy Allen as her main coach. Dave appeared to suggest that the change was desired for awhile, but had been slowed by Bradie's limited financial resources (at least that's my impression of Dave's comments), which of course is unconfirmed TSL-chatter. Per Dave: "Something is going on in the Bradie coaching situation... Supposedly Bradie couldn't leave Denise because of financial issues. And now apparently Bradie made [enough] money on the SOI tour to cover her coaching expenses... So it looks like now that Jeremy Allen may become Bradie's more primary coach. That's interesting... Jeremy Allen is also going to be working with Alexa & Chris for four hours a day when Aliona is out of town... I can see Bradie training alongside Alexa & Chris and maybe some of Bradie's consistency could rub off on Chris by osmosis..."

Disclaimer: unconfirmed TSL gossip -- at about just past the mid-point of the latest episode on ISU rules changes (58:57)
 

sjs5572

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Messages
399
Enjoy! :) With the amount of money tickets cost these days I'm sure you're gonna appreciate all the other exciting action you will see, besides Ms. Liu. Good that she has you inspired though.

For me, regardless of what year it is in the over-emphasized 'next Olympics quad,' U.S. Nationals is always filled with drama, must-see skaters, and unexpected happenings among all disciplines. :watch:

I guess I'll need to catch Detroit, since it appears that U.S. Nats is not returning to Cleveland anytime soon. :(

Yep, I will definitely enjoy seeing all the skaters; I am not a "last flight" type of guy, lol!
 

vesperholly

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Messages
12,826
Guys, i usually don't watch Novice/Juv levels, so can someone please tell me who this girl is? She caught my eye accidentally in a youtube stream and i found her to be excellent. Is she doing well compared to other girls? who is her trainer? I thought she was a russian girl before i read her name... (thanks in advance, if anyone can answer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhRQkWLyYrA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktFU9hLmuIM
She is stunning. Wow. Absolutely love her jump technique and knee bend.
 

Alilou

Ubercavorter
Messages
7,307
Guys, i usually don't watch Novice/Juv levels, so can someone please tell me who this girl is? She caught my eye accidentally in a youtube stream and i found her to be excellent. Is she doing well compared to other girls? who is her trainer? I thought she was a russian girl before i read her name... (thanks in advance, if anyone can answer)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhRQkWLyYrA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktFU9hLmuIM
Isabeau Levito 2018 US Juvenile National Champion
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
Messages
22,152
Liu's technique is ... laborious, and not one that I hold much hope in surviving through puberty.

Exactly my thought. Dull and slow. Too slow and lackadaisical for this age. Zero natural charisma. Someone earlier mentioned “Skates like a day in the office.” That’s not a compliment.
 

skatfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,409
Exactly my thought. Dull and slow. Too slow and lackadaisical for this age. Zero natural charisma. Someone earlier mentioned “Skates like a day in the office.” That’s not a compliment.

I think the "day in the office" means that she can land everything like no big deal. Having seen her live, she has plenty of natural charisma, and in her new free you can already see glimpses of some real fire and musicality emerging. I'll take that from a 12-year-old!

Yeah, I pretty much disagree.
 

Carolla5501

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,133
Eh @mag, thanks for weighing in with your assumptions and confusion about my previous post. You are the one 'suggesting' what you have read into my post. :p

I merely responded to @just wondering's enthusiastic post with my own cautionary reflections about the importance of well-rounded attention to all aspects of skill development for Alysa and for any young jumping phenom. My comments do not 'suggest' that is not happening for Alysa, just that it's necessary. Clearly, it's my opinion that there are crucial factors in the training process which fans often don't discuss because the focus and excitement inevitably centers around jumping feats. Attention to well-rounded skills training is a very important part of the process for any skater which often takes a back-seat in fan commentary due to the sport's extreme focus on acrobatic skills. We see that reflected in the scoring system and it's ongoing complications, misapplications, manipulations and continual rules changes.

Obviously, you know a lot about the development of a young skater's talent as you've pointed out on many occasions. I appreciate your knowledge and I agree with some of your views. None of us are always in agreement, which is certainly not unusual on fs fan forums. Meanwhile, I will continue to post my reflections and opinions and you can continue to interject, misconstrue, misinterpret, read into, and demand clarification. :COP::D

I don't know a great deal about Alysa, and that's why I brought her up in this thread (after hearing Dave of TSL make a suspect comment), which in part led to some of the ongoing analyses of Liu's remarkable talent, particularly after her recent performance videos were posted. I'm still not going to get over-excited about Liu's talent and bright prospects at this stage of her young career, which of course does not mean no one else can't, shouldn't, or won't. :drama:

An interesting discussion nonetheless and Liu's talent deserves to be talked about (of course minus too much over-hype IMO). In any case this is, at least for the moment, great fodder for the off-season.

Carry on. :watch:
Thanks for checking @Sylvia, and thanks for posting the vids @Tinami Amori. So there's another young U.S. phenom to discuss. :D Now we know it's Isabeau Levito's coach who is Russian, which surely has impacted Levito's look on the ice, added to her own precocious abilities. But then there's never been any lack of talent among U.S. ladies. Just a sea change in the sport on a number of levels post-MK era that's impacted U.S. ladies' competitive trajectory.

I suppose TSL's Lease hasn't spied Levito yet. I can't wait until he does. :watch: :lol:

It will be fun to see how both Liu and Levito progress. They are both talented and different. And it's still dicey to go OTT with over-expectations for very young skaters. I wish the best for these young ladies and their parents on the journeys ahead of them.



Thanks @skatfan. That's good to hear. The journey is never easy for figure skaters, but a good foundation provided by an excellent and caring coach can make a huge difference down the road.
Apparently it's been known for some time that Winnetka IL coach, Jeremy Allen, has been guiding Bradie Tennell along with her main coach, Denise Myers. Here's a local hometown feature article in the lead-up to the Olympics:
https://jwcdaily.com/2018/02/01/winnetka-coach-guides-u-s-skater-bradie-tennell/

TSL's Dave Lease was up to his usual 'in-the-know' tidbit-dropping in the latest episode when he mentioned in passing that Bradie is now perhaps going to utilize Jeremy Allen as her main coach. Dave appeared to suggest that the change was desired for awhile, but had been slowed by Bradie's limited financial resources (at least that's my impression of Dave's comments), which of course is unconfirmed TSL-chatter. Per Dave: "Something is going on in the Bradie coaching situation... Supposedly Bradie couldn't leave Denise because of financial issues. And now apparently Bradie made [enough] money on the SOI tour to cover her coaching expenses... So it looks like now that Jeremy Allen may become Bradie's more primary coach. That's interesting... Jeremy Allen is also going to be working with Alexa & Chris for four hours a day when Aliona is out of town... I can see Bradie training alongside Alexa & Chris and maybe some of Bradie's consistency could rub off on Chris by osmosis..."

Disclaimer: unconfirmed TSL gossip -- at about just past the mid-point of the latest episode on ISU rules changes (58:57)



Here's a hint. Some of us don't want to listen to TSL's trash talk.

Lucky for me FSU has an ignore feature so I can ignore posters who insist on treating Dave Lease as a reputable source!
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
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17,317
^^ Ah, good for you @Carolla5501. And thanks for your input. :summer:

I get why Lease is considered a pariah and a piranha all rolled into one by many, and I also get why some other people continue to put up with him, even some in the skating world who still go on his show. Personally, I'm eager for any figure skating news I can get and I know how to filter. Nowhere have I said that Lease is a reputable source, which does not mean he isn't a source or that some of his misplaced chatter doesn't turn out to be accurate.

Unfortunately, intelligent, polite and generous conversation about the fs landscape (including sharing and assessing gossip that's bandied about) is often a bust, even on FSU. Yeah, TSL isn't the best source for reliable news. And yeah there's snark and questionable gossip and unnecessary arguing and reading into posters' comments on here. All of that is a drag.
 
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