U.S. Ladies [#21]: Wrapped Up with a Neat Little BOW

[AxelAnnie]

What’s, exactly, is “an innate talent for figure skating”? I am not arguing that there those one in a billion people who seem to have something extra. Tessa Virtue, Aliona S, Alina Zagitova could all fall into that category. Maybe even Hanyu. But I wouldn’t put Scott Moir, Michelle Kwan or Patrick Chan in that group let alone Gracie or Nathen. They earned it all the old fashion way. Hard work, good coaching, enough money, and bit of luck (of course the others had / did those things as well.)
Innate talemt:: Nathan. Sasha..Gracie..Mir
The point is, the search for “talent” is extremely difficult in an early entry sport, because by the time there is any chance of even guessing right more than 50% of the time, it is too late. I suspect the current Russian success is simply a numbers game. Figure skating is a way to a better life for your family. Thousands of girls are thrown in the hopper at one end, and half a dozen come out the other. In North America we aren’t prepared to approach sport that way. That doesn’t mean we won’t have success, it just mean that we are statically less likely to have as much of it.

Innate talent...Sasha. Nathan. Mirai. S/H.

Journey men skaters . Ashley. K/K. Flatt.

The difference is not who works hard and who doesn't, but rather who has the ability to be the Swan. To not only skate well but skate magically

I say they are born with that talent..and it is visible very early on.

It could also be called natural talent. I think Nathan has that. Caroline..and yes hers had to be harnessed . Bobek had it and squandered it.

 

[Willin]

I happened to catch an interview on the Today Show with Mirai, Bradie and Karen this morning before I headed out to work. Mirai did most of the talking repeating some of the things she said to McCarvel. Also when asked what happed last night to her triple axel she said she “hit a rut on the ice...it happens.” My thought: why don’t the Russian girls ever seem to hit ruts? Then she proceeded to shill for a gig with Dancing With the Stars after saying it was unlikely she would go to the Olympics in 4 years. My thought: doesn’t sound like she has any intentions of going to Worlds so Ashley better get ready. Also why would DWTS want Mirai. I’m thinking Adam or the Shibs. I’m sure you can see the interview if you go to the Today Show website. After watching it I’m sorry to say I felt even more pissed at her. I hope like others are saying here this weird behavior is coming from mental exhaustion. Though Bradie and Karen seemed normal...and I’m sure they are tired too. Not to mention what incredible grace Medvedeva showed last night. Karen said she was disappointed in her performance and both Bradie and Karen hope to be at the Olympics next time. Bradie said she is just getting started.

Sometimes ruts are easier to ride out on certain edges or certain moves. I can easily ride out a rut if I'm going on a flat heading backwards, but on a deep forward outside edge like she had going into that 3A it can be really difficult. Some ruts are also very small, so you need to hit a very particular part of the ice that not everyone will hit. Personally, though, I'm still not buying her explanation - it didn't look like she hit a rut, that usually looks more like a trip. I thought it looked like her timing was off or she just got a bit nervous. Based on mistakes later in her program and reports that she'd taken hard falls in practice I was wondering if she didn't have some sort of bruise or injury making jumping painful.

I think she might get DWTS as a package deal with Adam since their best friend narrative can be played up (Adam was even there backstage as she warmed up for the FS!). Alone, I don't know if they'll choose her. She has personality, but it's not the type of personality TV producers seem to like for that show. I could also see the Shibs going, but idk if they'd even want to.

 

[olympic]

Some obvious points, but in general you are throwing in everything but the kitchen sink to try and explain away what really doesn't need any explaining away. At the end of the day, it is what it is. Going into the Olympics, this is about what was expected (with maybe at least one of the ladies landing in 5th or 6th place - the podium would have required some miracles and tanking by too many other ladies, capiche?!)

Understand first and foremost, not much was actually expected DUE TO THE DEPTH OF TALENT that exists now globally and DUE TO THE FACT THAT THERE'S NO HUGE POLITICAL BACKING FOR US LADIES AFTER GRACIE LEFT THE ROOM WHERE IT HAPPENS!!!

You and I are saying the same things in different ways. The increased competitiveness in Ladies is putting US ladies in the rear view mirror for now

 

[ssminnow]

FYI, Bradie Tennell has excellent jump technique, so take a seat. Obviously, Michelle Kwan had superb technique as learned from Frank Carroll who learned from Maribel Vinson Owen. Why is it necessary to speak in superlatives and generalities and vast sweeping statements? Your trollish query is not apropos to very much, since the current OGM and OSM from Russia also have some jump technique issues that aren't being examined under a microscope because they are fast, determined rotators with political clout and favored buzz behind them. Zagitova is the better and more precise jumper than Medvedeva, but neither of them can jump high with huge ice coverage.

Osmond, the current OBM has speed, huge jumps with great ice coverage and decent technique, aside from her flutz and some inconsistencies with nerves which have often led to inconsistencies on jumping passes. Fortunately for Osmond, she's been coddled with mistakes, and she is seen as a well-rounded skater worthy of being championed. So all credit to her going for broke when it counted and for skating clean in the sp and nearly clean in the fp with speed, attack and confidence. Her slight step-out and flutz on that one jump in the fp did not faze her nor trip her up from skating cleanly and with spark throughout.

As far as U.S. ladies, just as with most skaters, there are things you can pick apart with everyone. Amber Glenn is a very good jumper and a well-rounded skater who struggles with managing competitive nerves. Karen jumps high but she has technique miscues and she struggles with managing her nerves as well as the height she gets on her jumps. We know about Mirai's trajectory -- she suffered from URs more because of nerves rather than a lack of good technique. But she overcame a lot working with Tom Z and she should be proud of making it back to the Olympics, landing a 3-axel and winning a bronze in the team event. Mariah Bell is a work in progress re improving her technique miscues, but she has wonderful potential, if she pulls everything together under Raf. What Mariah needs most of all is a killer instinct. Bradie has the Olympics experience under her belt, and we shall see how she's able to put things together at Worlds. Hopefully, she won't be skating last in the last group at Worlds!

Ever since figures were dropped in 1990, there are plenty of ladies from every country who have problems with clean edges and poor jump technique. As Patrick Chan has demonstrated, diligent practice with figures improves blade control, helps with speed, ice coverage and ideally with jump technique. Coach Dough Haw recently revealed on TSL, that Patrick's problems with 3-axels are mostly a result of his having difficulty learning 2-axels and getting the technique for the axel jump fully under his belt before having to move on to 3-axels. And then Patrick had too many coaches telling him different ways to fix the 3-axel which never worked out for him, e.g., in the way that Adam Rippon eventually mastered the 3-axel under Raf.

Therefore, as with most things in figure skating, everyone generally has room for improvement in some area. Right now it appears that fast rotations, nerves of steel and buzzworthy consistency are calling cards for the podium. And you are fortunate if you can get away with some jump issues that aren't looked at too closely e.g, Zag, Med, Satoko. Even Carolina, despite technical miscues, has been held up all season long on her ubiquitously overpraised 'artistic' brilliance.

Any kind of criticism is "trollish", apparently.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Sorry to label you if indeed you are being sincere in your soundbite over-generalized critiques.

You and I are saying the same things in different ways. The increased competitiveness in Ladies is putting US ladies in the rear view mirror for now

Sure, but my point is that what ultimately happened with the ladies' placements is not news to us skating fans. The bottom line is that all three U.S. ladies could have at least skated better for themselves and not given the judges an opportunity to dump on them. It's not news for us that politics and rep buzz is a huge factor in the scoring. And it's not simply the case that 'the rest of the world has caught up.' That has been happening for some time now, just as WW II devastating the old European fs powers, eventually led to the athletic exploits of North American skaters being recognized and highly rewarded in the late 1940s and throughout the 1950s (a golden era for U.S. figure skating in a sleepy Cold War period before global mass communication and before figure skating became more accessible to the masses). We know the current balance of power shifted awhile ago for a variety of reasons, and that training methods in Japan and Russia in particular are dictating their depth in singles and ladies respectively. Many of us are simply reacting on the fly to some of the clueless press coverage about the most recent Olympics results. FS coverage and its extremes and excesses always boils down to lack of understanding and lack of historical perspective. And there's a bit of repetitive overanalyzing and overthinking going on here as well.

For e.g., re @Maximillian's recent post, there are some interesting points made that are valid. But I don't think it's viable to try and straight up compare different eras. There are simply too many complicated factors involved, including a different scoring system, less technically demanding acrobatic requirements, a lighter competitive schedule, not as much depth of competitive talent globally, yet there existed rampant political scoring and European bloc-judging, which increased as the Russians began to win in pairs and ice dance. Conversely, since figures were more important and a huge part of the scoring decades ago, there were skaters with better blade skills who were not actually asked to do much with those skills. Tom Dickson opined about this conundrum on a former @manleywoman podcast. Jump landings and edging also were not scrutinized to the nth degree, nor were transitions important. Most skaters were not doing off-ice training or receiving nutritional and physical therapy advice. So many things were different. And that's not to put down what those skaters did in their time on the ice, which was state of the art back then.

We are all emotional and frankly powerless to change anything, so that's frustrating as well.

 

[soogar]

I happened to catch an interview on the Today Show with Mirai, Bradie and Karen this morning before I headed out to work. Mirai did most of the talking repeating some of the things she said to McCarvel. Also when asked what happed last night to her triple axel she said she “hit a rut on the ice...it happens.” My thought: why don’t the Russian girls ever seem to hit ruts? Then she proceeded to shill for a gig with Dancing With the Stars after saying it was unlikely she would go to the Olympics in 4 years. My thought: doesn’t sound like she has any intentions of going to Worlds so Ashley better get ready. Also why would DWTS want Mirai. I’m thinking Adam or the Shibs. I’m sure you can see the interview if you go to the Today Show website. After watching it I’m sorry to say I felt even more pissed at her. I hope like others are saying here this weird behavior is coming from mental exhaustion. Though Bradie and Karen seemed normal...and I’m sure they are tired too. Not to mention what incredible grace Medvedeva showed last night. Karen said she was disappointed in her performance and both Bradie and Karen hope to be at the Olympics next time. Bradie said she is just getting started.

I think that Mirai came off as really desperate for a DWTS opportunity and what's sad is that her great performance in the team competition probably did set her up for a DWTS invite until her individual event performances weren't as great. The media is so fickle. Adam had the same finish in the individual event as Mirai had but he left out the risk elements and skated clean. Mirai's brand was built on landing this difficult jump.

I feel bad for her because she created this really beautiful amazing moment with that skate only it happened at the wrong time. The moment is still the same and she did it when there was a real medal on the line. In the individual she may not have received a medal or teh scores for that performance.

 

[berthesghost]

If Ashley was there, would the US have won the team medal? I feel fairly confident they would have had her skate one portion and I do not think she is capable of putting up the scores the other two do in the team event.

we’ll never know especially since we don’t even know who she would have replaced. But Ashley already has a bronze team oly medal so I doubt they would have used her in the event. Probably only if she was skating better than the other two, which we know from this past season she wasn’t so it’s all a moot point.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

What frustrates me is with an 8 triple free skate in the team event, Mirai still earned 20 points less than Zagitova.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I feel bad for her because she created this really beautiful amazing moment with that skate only it happened at the wrong time. The moment is still the same and she did it when there was a real medal on the line. In the individual she may not have received a medal or teh scores for that performance.

That reminds of when the short program was introduced for pairs in the 1960s, there was a preview short (which didn't count for points) followed by the actual short. Sometimes, skaters who did well in the first round, crumbled in the second.

I think having the Team Event first, zaps skaters like Mirai of their focus and energy. She did EVERYTHING within her ability to make the US Team. It's frustrating because the potential for a medal was clearly there.

 

[olympic]

^^ Sorry to label you if indeed you are being sincere in your soundbite over-generalized critiques.



Sure, but my point is that what ultimately happened with the ladies' placements is not news to us skating fans. The bottom line is that all three U.S. ladies could have at least skated better for themselves and not given the judges an opportunity to dump on them. It's not news for us that politics and rep buzz is a huge factor in the scoring. And it's not simply the case that 'the rest of the world has caught up.' That has been happening for some time now, just as WW II devastating the old European fs powers, eventually led to the athletic exploits of North American skaters being recognized and highly rewarded in the late 1940s and throughout the 1950s (a golden era for U.S. figure skating in a sleepy Cold War period before global mass communication and before figure skating became more accessible to the masses). We know the current balance of power shifted awhile ago for a variety of reasons, and that training methods in Japan and Russia in particular are dictating their depth in singles and ladies respectively. Many of us are simply reacting on the fly to some of the clueless press coverage about the most recent Olympics results. FS coverage and its extremes and excesses always boils down to lack of understanding and lack of historical perspective. And there's a bit of repetitive overanalyzing and overthinking going on here as well.

For e.g., re @Maximillian's recent post, there are some interesting points made that are valid. But I don't think it's viable to try and straight up compare different eras. There are simply too many complicated factors involved, including a different scoring system, less technically demanding acrobatic requirements, a lighter competitive schedule, not as much depth of competitive talent globally, yet there existed rampant political scoring and European bloc-judging, which increased as the Russians began to win in pairs and ice dance. Conversely, since figures were more important and a huge part of the scoring decades ago, there were skaters with better blade skills who were not actually asked to do much with those skills. Tom Dickson opined about this conundrum on a former @manleywoman podcast. Jump landings and edging also were not scrutinized to the nth degree, nor were transitions important. Most skaters were not doing off-ice training or receiving nutritional and physical therapy advice. So many things were different. And that's not to put down what those skaters did in their time on the ice, which was state of the art back then.

We are all emotional and frankly powerless to change anything, so that's frustrating as well.

OK. There is overanalysis. People are free to speak their minds and this is a message board. I’m moving on

 

[aftershocks]

OK. There is overanalysis. People are free to speak their minds and this is a message board. I’m moving on

I'm not castigating any of your points of view, and I'm not diagreeing with everything you said. I only meant (as you said earlier), we are coming from this at all angles. I was not intending to single you or anyone else out, just making points and doing my own reflecting and being emotional too and overanalyzing too. I was including myself in that comment. Don't take it personally.

 

[shady82]

It's entertaining to watch this thread explode in outrage every time an American athlete (i.e. Mirai) or associated figure (i.e. Raf) says something mildly negative.

Who knows why Mirai said what she said. Maybe she was shocked and not in the most rational mindset. Maybe she was just trying to enjoy the Olympic experience and not get too bothered by a bad performance. I wouldn't assume she was not taking her job seriously. And her comment about Gabby, my assumption is it was taken way out of context in the interview. She DID skate badly after all.

Regarding Raf, I thought his responses his interview were frank though honest and totally reasonable. I was quite surprised by the backlash from posters here. If you are bothered by his responses, that's your problem.

I think it was the right decision to send Karen to the Olympics although the USFSA gave the wrong message at Nationals (Karen should have won the long on the TECHNICAL mark). Given how Ashley was skating this season, I don't feel confident in her ability to place well in Pyeongchang.

Finally, the American ladies mainly have a consistency problem and on the whole, the average LEVEL of their skating (basic skills, jumps, other elements, and presentation) are not at the level of top Japanese and Russian skaters. Yes, there are some who have excellent jump technique (as aftershocks points out), but not enough skaters who have the whole package + consistency. It's not just a problem of rotating jumps.

I have no problem with domestic judges overlooking URs because unlike what IJS likes to believe, fully rotating your jumps is NOT 80% of the game, it's just one of many facets. I am happy with the technical caller at the Olympics who only calls the most egregious URs. Callers like Shin Amano have no place on judging panels. If American skaters don't do well internationally for this reason, I couldn't care less, I just want the US skaters to work hard, make an effort at constant self-improvement and enjoy skating. Same with other skaters, I care most about their personal journey and not about whether they are upholding their country's 'reputation'. Other fans, critics, etc. are welcome to care about actual placements and national pride but if I were a skater, I'd overlook these things to the extent possible.

 

[Frida80]

[QUOTE="soogar, post: 5313926, member: 5827"I feel bad for her because she created this really beautiful amazing moment with that skate only it happened at the wrong time. The moment is still the same and she did it when there was a real medal on the line. In the individual she may not have received a medal or teh scores for that performance.

That reminds of when the short program was introduced for pairs in the 1960s, there was a preview short (which didn't count for points) followed by the actual short. Sometimes, skaters who did well in the first round, crumbled in the second.

I think having the Team Event first, zaps skaters like Mirai of their focus and energy. She did EVERYTHING within her ability to make the US Team. It's frustrating because the potential for a medal was clearly there.

The media pointed out that Kaetlyn, Kaori, and Satoko did the FS and didn’t bomb. The problem was, they weren’t under the pressure Mirai was in the TE. After Kolyada bombed in men’s, Canada had a large lead that allowed everyone else to relax. Kaetlyn could use this as a practice run. Japan wasn’t in the running for a medal so both Japanese ladies could also use this as practice run. I’m sure they were all told, this is just practice leave some for the individual. They all skated imperfect programs and used that as fuel for the individual event.

By the third day, Mirai, Adam, and the Shibutanis were told that Italy had caught up and was only down by one point. They were told needed to “save” the bronze. Adam did a near clean long that gained only one points. And I know Mirai was very nervous about skating in the TE because she wanted to help USA win bronze. So she had to use all her energy in that one event. That wasn’t just a good skate, that’s the best skate that she’s ever done in her career! After that, I doubt she had much left in the tank for the individual round.

Winners head is lethal for any skater. I hope next time USFS can better prep their athletes for getting through the both team and individual events. It’s a lot.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Doing two competitions back to back at the one event would be so hard. Even peaking twice in two weeks on the Grand Prix Series is asking a lot for skaters, which is why many tend to spread their choices out between rounds.

Too bad prior to this season, we couldn't have sneaked Mirai to Eteri's team of transformers for some extra training tips.

I have the feeling Nagasu will call it a career after this week, though.

Still extremely proud of her bronze medal in the team event.

 

[Frida80]

Doing two competitions back to back at the one event would be so hard. Even peaking twice in two weeks on the Grand Prix Series is asking a lot for skaters, which is why many tend to spread their choices out between rounds.

Too bad prior to this season, we couldn't have sneaked Mirai to Eteri's team of transformers for some extra training tips.

I have the feeling Nagasu will call it a career after this week, though.

Still extremely proud of her bronze medal in the team event.

Her main motivation for the last four years has been making the Olympic team and landing her 3A. All this media attention may have distracted her from skating. I’ll wait until she’s had a chance to return to reality and really focus on what she wants to do now.

 

[Lacey]

So, my question would be: If Mirai decides she is either too tired or too stressed to do Worlds and retires, do we have any way of knowing whether or not, and how, Ashley Wagner has been practicing for a sub spot at Worlds while in Korea and does it make any difference what's she's doing?

Ashley, Mariah Bell and Angela Wang are #1, 2 and 3 backup subs for Worlds. If Mirai is going to opt out, I would hope it is an easy transition.

Paul Wylie was on Olympic Ice yesterday before the Ladies Final (why not Men?), and he said he did well at Os because Evy (mostly) and Mary Scotveld broke down the time between Nationals and Os into 35 prep days, and they planned everything out.

I did not read anything into Raf's big recent interview that he and Ashley are prepping anything, just in case, but then again he wasn't asked anything specifically about that.

Hmmm. 26 days until Ladies Short at Worlds.

 

[aftershocks]

Are we really using the "other people have said stupid stuff" defense for Mirai? She made a dumb comment or two. It doesn't make her a bad person. But it doesn't mean the comment about Gabby was okay and that we should be making excuses for her.

Neither should we be piling on Mirai to the extent that some people in here are doing. But what else is new in U.S. ladies thread on FSU. Back to normal cuz it's always free reign to tear down on Mirai big time. I have that full-page spread pullout pic of Mirai in her moment of YASSSS sassy glory after her team event skate. That's one of the best moments from these Olympics that I for one am going to remember.

Some of the Canadian fans who are acting so offended and piling on Mirai (not all Canadians fans btw), why not concentrate on celebrating Osmond's OBM victory? Osmond managed to take charge of her talent and prevail since it was a taller order for her all season long to show judges she's worthy of contending against the Russians for gold, as she's better than them in a number of areas, aside from lacking consistent mental strength. Hopefully Osmond is over the hump in that respect, if she plans to continue competing. Osmond wasn't perfect in the team event, but no one overfocused on that and she managed to lay down two strong performances in singles with a gold team event medal already won, and she now owns Olympic medals of all three colors.

Ironically, Gabby seemed somewhat thrown off by being placed behind Mirai in the team event scoring. And maybe that circumstance made Gabby slightly more concerned and nervous for the singles event. Gabby was so strong at Cdn Nationals, I expected her to be at least consistent at the Olympics. It was heartbreaking to see the wheels come off for her in the singles fp. But she can hold her head up high with pride and take strength from lessons learned and just slay at Worlds.

Neither does Mirai need to hang her head. I seriously doubt Mirai was maliciously intending to single out Gabby or to throw negativity onto any of her own teammates. The aggressive and clueless media were needling and pouncing. It's overkill for Canadian fans to keep harping on Mirai's inappropriate response to the media pouncing.

So, the main question is: What are Russia, Japan and Canada doing that the USA isn't? And what needs to change?

IMO, that's an oversimplified question. But for starters all of those countries have more clout and adeptness politically to assist their top athletes. Canada has simply lucked out with the talented Osmond and Daleman in ladies. After those two ladies, the talent drops off precipitously unless Chartrand can mount a strong comeback. Cdn pairs are strong and should be competitive in the coming quad; ice dance for Canada will be in a rebuilding phase with Soucisse/Firus on the rise and it remains to be seen how long G/P and W/P will remain eligible. Cdn men will be competitive, but not to the level of Patrick Chan brilliance right at the moment.

Let's be realistic that aside from Eteri's machine, most uber-talented skaters are born, not made. I do think the U.S. needs to rethink how to teach proper technique, and how to assist skaters in developing stronger competitive mindsets (those attributes are possessed by Japanese singles skaters and current Russian ladies, but even then the Russian ladies, while technically strong, still do not have perfect jump technique abilities).

 

[NAOTMAA]

I wonder if the USFSA is currently regretting putting Karen on the world team. With these Olympics wrapped up its safe to say she's been dreadful in every international competition this season. Her only solid competition was nationals and even then it required some pushing and teeth gritting from the nationals judges to get her to Pyeongchang. Combined with her "boot issues" she makes herself pretty unreliable at the moment. The pressure on the other two ladies, who ever they may be, to keep the three spots will be even crazier and that's not fair to them.

 

[Willin]

I hate to doubt an athlete, particularly one as nice as Karen, but with this many boot issues girl needs to start getting more specific. At this point "boot issues" seems to be code for "I'm really nervous and I don't know if I'll do well." I think she'd be better off confidence and performance wise if she started to admit she had nerves.

Does anyone have the inside scoop on the Kristi Yamaguchi-Karen Chen connection? I've always wondered if that's an invention for the media or an actual thing. After all, Kristi lives near San Francisco, but long before this mentorship thing started Karen moved to LA in order to train. I could see occasional texting between them, but actual frequent mentoring?

 

[Jarrett]

I think Mirai took the Olympics very seriously, all you had to do was look at the interview after the short program where she is about to breakdown on air. The negative articles are from writers that normal do not follow figure skating or know Mirai's "humor." If you read any of the quotes in Mirai's voice you can hear they are protective jokes. You can see from the photos of the long program draw that Mirai had been crying a lot and probably made the decision she wasnt going to cry about this competition anymore with her family in the stands. It is just skating like she told Nick. If these writers just wanted Mirai to cry and say the U.S. athletes suck they can find someone else.

I believe Mirai skating first and going pretty much clean would put pressure on the other skaters. The article that says even if she came dead last in the long this would have still won doesn't take into consideration any added pressure she put on the other skaters to skate well and if it affected their skate ie Caroline.

 

[Stephanie]

I don't think Tom Z's talk about Mirai being a medal contender helped at all. They should have just talked and focused about skating clean.

 

[RoseRed]

That reminds of when the short program was introduced for pairs in the 1960s, there was a preview short (which didn't count for points) followed by the actual short. Sometimes, skaters who did well in the first round, crumbled in the second.

I think having the Team Event first, zaps skaters like Mirai of their focus and energy. She did EVERYTHING within her ability to make the US Team. It's frustrating because the potential for a medal was clearly there.

Was it, though? Do you think she would have beaten Kaetlyn, even with a clean skate?

 

[Frida80]

I think Mirai took the Olympics very seriously, all you had to do was look at the interview after the short program where she is about to breakdown on air. The negative articles are from writers that normal do not follow figure skating or know Mirai's "humor." If you read any of the quotes in Mirai's voice you can hear they are protective jokes. You can see from the photos of the long program draw that Mirai had been crying a lot and probably made the decision she wasnt going to cry about this competition anymore with her family in the stands. It is just skating like she told Nick. If these writers just wanted Mirai to cry and say the U.S. athletes suck they can find someone else.

I believe Mirai skating first and going pretty much clean would put pressure on the other skaters. The article that says even if she came dead last in the long this would have still won doesn't take into consideration any added pressure she put on the other skaters to skate well and if it affected their skate ie Caroline.

The author clearly knows nothing about skating. Mirai performance in the TE lessened the pressure on the Shibs and prevented a Italian surge in dance. She did her part.

 

[Frida80]

Was it, though? Do you think she would have beaten Kaetlyn, even with a clean skate?

No. I would estimate her highest potential score currently at 212-218.

 

[skatingguy]

Canada has simply lucked out with the talented Osmond and Daleman in ladies.

I don't think 'lucked out' is fair to the work that Skate Canada has put in to develop these athletes. If you watch their performances, or the performances of any of the Canadian skaters, you'll see Michael Slipchuk, & Mannon Perron supporting the athlete and their coach at the side of the boards. Skate Canada has done an excellent job of identifying and nurturing talent, which is why Canada had the largest team of any country competing at the Olympics.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

They would if she skated like she did at Nationals.

Comedy.

Yeah because the story she told with LaLa should have low PCS?

What kind of PASSION or a story did Karen tell with her tango? She aint brought me to no Lovers Tango that night.

I posted since May how I despise LaLa and when I saw her do it I was like Damn.... that was good. She sold it to me, and brought me along on her ride.

 

[aftershocks]

I don't think 'lucked out' is fair to the work that Skate Canada has put in to develop these athletes. If you watch their performances, or the performances of any of the Canadian skaters, you'll see Michael Slipchuk, & Mannon Perron supporting the athlete and their coach at the side of the boards. Skate Canada has done an excellent job of identifying and nurturing talent, which is why Canada had the largest team of any country competing at the Olympics.

^^ Oh Canada, is of course definitely a mighty power in so many respects pertaining to figure skating and to all the Olympic winter sports. I really enjoyed Skate Canada's Olympic Team announcement ceremony. And the B2T program that assisted V/M is enviable. I was so rooting for Canada to win that fs team gold medal, and they did in slam dunk fashion. Wow, might some of you (including RD with his earlier putdown comment) be pissed that U.S. ladies overcame Canadian ladies in hockey? And I'm not gloating because I don't follow hockey and I didn't watch that event. I mainly watched figure skating.

Anyway, Canada never had tremendously consistent success in ladies figure skating, despite some very wonderful ladies champions. That's a reason why there was such excitement last season for two Canadian ladies being on the Worlds podium. I watched Cdn Natls ladies event in January and although there were some charming and lovely contenders, most of them (aside from Osmond, Daleman, and Chartrand -- albeit she is going through a WTF phase) lack consistent technical abilities and/or do not have command of all of the jumps nor can fully master difficult jumping passes. That's why I say regardless of the nurturing programs Cdn fed has in place, it is often a matter of luck for every fed when uber-talented athletes come down the pike.

For example, Nathan Chen could have chosen gymnastics or a career in ballet. Johnny Weir could have chosen equestrian eventing (not that U.S. fed would have minded). Despite not being a strong fed fave, Johnny Weir even beyond what he acknowledges himself, had a major impact on figure skating during his competitive tenure, which had nothing to do with medals won or lost either. Despite some of his strengths as a commentator, Johnny (and especially Tara) wearied me with their coverage, even though I like them and I get they have to go with cheeky banter and status quo network flow.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Was it, though? Do you think she would have beaten Kaetlyn, even with a clean skate?

This isn't about hindsight, and of course, that question will never be answered.

It is about how there were ten ladies prior to the competition who were in the mix for the podium.

I am thrilled for Kaetlyn winning bronze in the individual event, and Mirai was the MVP in the Team Event, too.

 

[aftershocks]

Does anyone have the inside scoop on the Kristi Yamaguchi-Karen Chen connection?

They come from the same town or county or something in California. Plus after 4CCs, Kristi apparently stepped in with a pep talk and took Karen under her wing. U.S. fed appears to strongly back Karen too for some reason. On the Olympic Ice broadcast post the ladies fp last evening, Kristi was taking up a lot for Karen. Charlie White was kind too but he pointed out the constructive fact that Karen jumps very high but she doesn't rotate fast enough to be able to control her landings. Charlie said Karen needs to fix her jump technique miscues. I would add that Karen needs to develop a stronger competitive mentality. Flashes of brilliance will not cut it in this sport.

... losing Gracie (and Polina) created too large a void for U.S. ladies to make up, primarily because Gracie was top 3 on PCS and that could carry her into the top 5-6 even with a flawed performance. Looking at Tennell's PCS, it's pretty clear that only Nagasu had a chance for top 6 here and that was only if she landed the 3A in both programs, her PCS just don't stand up. With regards to Chen, I don't even know what to say, she finished 4th in the World last year, but she hasn't really done anything this season that would suggest she would come close to that finish again...

I agree with most of your thoughts, especially about Karen. I think that Mirai's PCS marks should be higher but I understand why they aren't which has partly to do with her not focusing on that aspect of her skating, and partly to do with political-based rep and scoring. I disagree slightly that Polina's loss created a large void. Polina had already been off the scene with that nagging injury and that's ultimately what hurt her career. However, growing so tall and filling out while she looks absolutely stunning and gorgeous, it has made for some difficult adjustments for her on the ice. Technically, Polina was no longer as strong this season, and she never had great speed and ice coverage to begin with. She did have strong mental focus and competitive toughness.

I just do not think the loss of Polina is as much of a factor as the loss of Gracie. But then these days, ladies figure skaters are so dime a dozen. NBC commentators actually said that this was Medvedeva's and Zagitova's only opportunity for Olympic gold. (At ages 18 and 15 respectively )

... both Bradie and Karen hope to be at the Olympics next time. Bradie said she is just getting started.

See above observation by NBC's Tara & Johnny. I would think that Bradie might have a chance, but I'm not so sure about Karen. Four years is a long time and anything can happen. Neither Jason nor Polina made it back this season, and it was a happy surprise for them making it to Sochi in 2014. In any case, after dreaming of the Olympics, when you get there I should think it's important to make the most of it. Unfortunately, it seems as if problems and distractions can abound for many athletes. Even Johnny nearly missed the bus for the fp in 2006 and unfortunately he'd gone back to a previous program and his muscle memory appeared to have deserted him. After being in second place in the sp, he tanked. He of all commentators should be recalling that experience, instead of making harsh observations of U.S. skaters, and obsessing & waxing poetic over the Russian ladies, chiefly Medvedeva.

Actually, I do not understand all of the OTT angst from many fans and on social media over Med being in second place. I leaned toward Zagitova winning because her jumps are better, but I didn't care that much either way. It was an interesting battle and they both skated reasonably well (judges did not examine their landings too closely). There's absolutely no reasonable explanation though for their PCS marks being out the wazoo. That's really what the fs community should be talking about instead of obsessing over the U.S. ladies not having a better showing and result.
https://www.thecut.com/2018/02/zagitova-medvedeva-olympic-figure-skating-upset.html

 

[coppertop1]

^^ Oh Canada, is of course definitely a mighty power in so many respects pertaining to figure skating and to all the Olympic winter sports. I really enjoyed Skate Canada's Olympic Team announcement ceremony. And the B2T program that assisted V/M is enviable. I was so rooting for Canada to win that fs team gold medal, and they did in slam dunk fashion. Wow, might some of you (including RD with his earlier putdown comment) be pissed that U.S. ladies overcame Canadian ladies in hockey? And I'm not gloating because I don't follow hockey and I didn't watch that event. I mainly watched figure skating.

Anyway, Canada never had tremendously consistent success in ladies figure skating, despite some very wonderful ladies champions. That's a reason why there was such excitement last season for two Canadian ladies being on the Worlds podium. I watched Cdn Natls ladies event in January and although there were some charming and lovely contenders, most of them (aside from Osmond, Daleman, and Chartrand -- albeit she is going through a WTF phase) lack consistent technical abilities and/or do not have command of all of the jumps nor can fully master difficult jumping passes. That's why I say regardless of the nurturing programs Cdn fed has in place, it is often a matter of luck for every fed when uber-talented athletes come down the pike.

For example, Nathan Chen could have chosen gymnastics or a career in ballet. Johnny Weir could have chosen equestrian eventing (not that U.S. fed would have minded). Despite not being a strong fed fave, Johnny Weir even beyond what he acknowledges himself, had a major impact on figure skating during his competitive tenure, which had nothing to do with medals won or lost either. Despite some of his strengths as a commentator, Johnny (and especially Tara) wearied me with their coverage, even though I like them and I get they have to go with cheeky banter and status quo network flow.

Ladies figure skating has been our Achilles Heel for a long time.We didn't even qualify a woman to compete at the 1998 Olympics. That changed with Joannie Rochette's emergence. It's true that we don't have a strong third lady or not as strong as Japan or Russia. Hopefully, Chartrand will make a comeback and who knows about our juniors.

Question: How does the USFSA determine who gets international assignments?