U.S. Ladies [#21]: Wrapped Up with a Neat Little BOW

[Jammers]

Ting Cui will be old enough too

I think it's going to take someone new like a Ting Cui to get US Ladies back on track. It's obvious the older Senior Ladies just aren't good enough. It took new blood like Gracie to help get that 3rd spot back but that was made easier having someone like Ashley who made her way up the standings and was a top 4 skater in the World by the time Gracie came along.. Gracie was an explosive talent and judges loved her and she was good enough in her first Worlds to finish top 6 in a loaded field. It was a perfect storm that came together with Ashley/Gracie that put the US Ladies back on the map. Bradie did all she could to finish as high as she did but no one else in the US is good enough to finish top 8 in the world right now. As a group including Bradie they need to get better.

 

[mtnskater]

Major props to Bradie for pulling off the 4th place free skate and finishing 6 overall!! She is the real deal. Consistency really pays off when others falter. My wishes for her next season: First and foremost ditch Benoit ASAP!!! I can’t stand any more of those military style footwork sequences and Windmill arms with no relation to the music. Tom Dickson or Shae Lynn get my vote. Second, new upgraded costumes, hair, make up....packaging. Third, add another 3/3. Fourth, work on lines and stretch. USFS needs to do all they can to help Bradie get to that next level. Get her all the experts on her team that she needs!

As to Mirai...I am not a big Mirai fan, like seemingly 10,000 other people on the boards but Mirai was totally robbed by Shin Amano. I thought her skate looked mostly clean and was really good. I was shocked when her score came up. I question whether Shin should continue to be allowed to call events. It also appeared that he was pretty generous with the Japanese ladies...ahem...Satoko. It’s not fair when the ISU has such inconsistent calling across events. Shin is just too harsh. He may have robbed US ladies of three spots. I honestly even thought Mirai was going to beat Bradie in the free.

 

[Wyliefan]

Meh on Andrews. Typical American with lutz issues and low jump GoEs. It's Ting Cui that's the bright light for US ladies. She's the most impressive jumper from US juniors since Gracie Gold.

I think Bradie + Ting will be the 2 that helps USA get back 3 spots at 2019 Worlds.

Starr seems to have a good work ethic and may be able to clean up her issues. I can see Bradie, Ting, and Starr making a good U.S. team one of these days, especially if Bradie ups her PCS.

 

[jiejie]

From the angles I saw when watching, I thought Bradie's edge ! calls on her lutzes (1 SP, 2 FS) were bogus--completely contrived by the tech panel. Her technique on this jump has always been visibly on the correct outside edge. Her other outings this season where she had international tech panels (Lombardia, Skate America, Olympics indiv and Team SP) didn't have a single edge call for this. I don't for a minute believe that Bradie suddenly changed technique and started flutzing.

And yes, I think Mirai was one of the most harshly treated skaters on UR. I swear some of those were within the 1/4 turn allowance and should not have been called.

 

[Spun Silver]

Major props to Bradie for pulling off the 4th place free skate and finishing 6 overall!! She is the real deal. Consistency really pays off when others falter. My wishes for her next season: First and foremost ditch Benoit ASAP!!! I can’t stand any more of those military style footwork sequences and Windmill arms with no relation to the music. Tom Dickson or Shae Lynn get my vote. Second, new upgraded costumes, hair, make up....packaging. Third, add another 3/3. Fourth, work on lines and stretch. USFS needs to do all they can to help Bradie get to that next level. Get her all the experts on her team that she needs!

As to Mirai...I am not a big Mirai fan, like seemingly 10,000 other people on the boards but Mirai was totally robbed by Shin Amano. I thought her skate looked mostly clean and was really good. I was shocked when her score came up. I question whether Shin should continue to be allowed to call events. It also appeared that he was pretty generous with the Japanese ladies...ahem...Satoko. It’s not fair when the ISU has such inconsistent calling across events. Shin is just too harsh. He may have robbed US ladies of three spots. I honestly even thought Mirai was going to beat Bradie in the free.

ITA re Bradie. Re Mirai, Jackie Wong had the same opinion about both Mirai and Satoko and said, "Shin Amano is out in full force." He also thought Bradie should be the bronze medalist!
https://mobile.twitter.com/rockerskating

 

[Former FS FAN]

Shin is just too harsh.

totally robbed by Shin Amano

Why do you think Ashley Wagner passed up 2018 Worlds.

 

[Spun Silver]

I just skimmed Jackie Wong's Worlds practice notes and didn't see that?

He tweeted this before the SP: https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/976370570542673920

https://mobile.twitter.com/rockerskating/status/975789727877140480

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

As to Mirai...I am not a big Mirai fan, like seemingly 10,000 other people on the boards but Mirai was totally robbed by Shin Amano. I thought her skate looked mostly clean and was really good. I was shocked when her score came up. I question whether Shin should continue to be allowed to call events. It also appeared that he was pretty generous with the Japanese ladies...ahem...Satoko. It’s not fair when the ISU has such inconsistent calling across events. Shin is just too harsh. He may have robbed US ladies of three spots. I honestly even thought Mirai was going to beat Bradie in the free.

Shin Amano likes to splash Mirai with carrot juice, that's for sure.

 

[artsciboy]

Shin Amano likes to splash Mirai with carrot juice, that's for sure.

Deservedly so. Amano was certainly not drinking the USFS' kool-aid that Mirai was suddenly rotating her jumps (even at Nationals), neither were the judges here buying the argument that Bradie was better than Ashley in PCS (and never prone to underrotations or edge calls either) or that Mirai deserved a massive PCS boost like at Nationals. The USFS did themselves in on the 3 spots with what they did at Nationals.

And before we say that Amano would have massacred Ashley's rotations if she had attended - yes, there was Cup of China in 2016, but there was also Worlds in 2015, where Ashley had 5 of her 7 triples fully rotated and no "e" calls on either of her two lutzes in the FS with Amano was the Technical Specialist.

 

[olympic]

Major props to Bradie for pulling off the 4th place free skate and finishing 6 overall!! She is the real deal. Consistency really pays off when others falter. My wishes for her next season: First and foremost ditch Benoit ASAP!!! I can’t stand any more of those military style footwork sequences and Windmill arms with no relation to the music. Tom Dickson or Shae Lynn get my vote. Second, new upgraded costumes, hair, make up....packaging. Third, add another 3/3. Fourth, work on lines and stretch. USFS needs to do all they can to help Bradie get to that next level. Get her all the experts on her team that she needs!

As to Mirai...I am not a big Mirai fan, like seemingly 10,000 other people on the boards but Mirai was totally robbed by Shin Amano. I thought her skate looked mostly clean and was really good. I was shocked when her score came up. I question whether Shin should continue to be allowed to call events. It also appeared that he was pretty generous with the Japanese ladies...ahem...Satoko. It’s not fair when the ISU has such inconsistent calling across events. Shin is just too harsh. He may have robbed US ladies of three spots. I honestly even thought Mirai was going to beat Bradie in the free.

I love Bradie's clock arms. They bring back memories for me of the type of choreography that you would see on one of Jutta Mueller's pupils or Soviet ladies from days of yore.

 

[clairecloutier]

I love Bradie's clock arms. They bring back memories for me of the type of choreography that you would see on one of Jutta Mueller's pupils or Soviet ladies from days of yore.

And this is a good thing?

 

[Frau Muller]

Meh on Andrews. Typical American with lutz issues and low jump GoEs. It's Ting Cui that's the bright light for US ladies. She's the most impressive jumper from US juniors since Gracie Gold.

I think Bradie + Ting will be the 2 that helps USA get back 3 spots at 2019 Worlds.

ITA. She had a “moment” at Nationals, then had a not-so-great Four Cs. People tend to forget Four Cs.

 

[olympic]

And this is a good thing?

It lies in the fascinating train wreck category for me

 

[UGG]

Bradie needs to completely make over her look and style. The flailing arms look like spaghetti flying all around, and she has no presentation whatsoever. The middle of her program with the choreography is just really confusing to watch. She looks like a 2nd tier skater all the way. But good job for getting 6th- I don’t think she was really capeable of skating any better than she did.

 

[VGThuy]

Deservedly so. Amano was certainly not drinking the USFS' kool-aid that Mirai was suddenly rotating her jumps (even at Nationals), neither were the judges here buying the argument that Bradie was better than Ashley in PCS (and never prone to underrotations or edge calls either) or that Mirai deserved a massive PCS boost like at Nationals. The USFS did themselves in on the 3 spots with what they did at Nationals.

And before we say that Amano would have massacred Ashley's rotations if she had attended - yes, there was Cup of China in 2016, but there was also Worlds in 2015, where Ashley had 5 of her 7 triples fully rotated and no "e" calls on either of her two lutzes in the FS with Amano was the Technical Specialist.

Ashley would have totally been massacred. 2015 Worlds were three years ago and her jumps have been looking rough all season. Even non-Shin callers have been harsh to Ashley this season.

 

[berthesghost]

The fact that we keep rehashing WWWD (where would Wagner do) just shows how uninspiring us ladies is at the moment. But I think THE only reason she hung on past Boston was to make the oly team. I don’t think she ever had any intention of going to Milan since years ago. I can see why it’s temption to rehash “why did usfs dis her at 18 nats?” but worlds? Nope. Not for me.

 

[Bellanca]

My two cents: I've said it before, but I'll repeat it, and that is I hope USFS will refrain from their predictable bad habit and desperation of relying on the past for future success going forward as they've done time and time again. For example, if Mirai (or Ashley) decide to stay in a while longer, possibly another quad, their skating, alone, should have to propel them to a top lady status, not finagling by USFS, etc. Ditto for the other senior-level women who might choose to stay aboard.

Bradie is a good start but let some of the other talents that will hopefully pop-up have a chance to do something without being held down for too long in favor of seniority, reputation or a 'name' which really hasn't benefited the U.S. ladies’ program, lately.

Despite the hemming and hawing about the Olympic team, the third spot at Worlds, the Karen vs. Ashley , I agree with posters who believe the U.S. would still be in the same position no matter who comprised those teams because that is where the program is right now. Plus, the world is so much more competitive as compared to a decade or two ago. That alone has been a significant factor and may continue to be.

 

[Willin]

Deservedly so. Amano was certainly not drinking the USFS' kool-aid that Mirai was suddenly rotating her jumps (even at Nationals), neither were the judges here buying the argument that Bradie was better than Ashley in PCS (and never prone to underrotations or edge calls either) or that Mirai deserved a massive PCS boost like at Nationals. The USFS did themselves in on the 3 spots with what they did at Nationals.

I don't understand how "USFS did themselves in on the 3 spots with what they did at Nationals." No matter how they scored the skaters at nationals there was no way we'd get 3 spots. Nationals scoring didn't cause the international judges to suddenly get pissed off and score US skaters more harshly. All that happened was USFS was far too lenient and the international panel scored the skaters accurately. There's a reason domestic scores don't count for world records - all countries jack up the scores at Nationals - and I don't see that changing the scoring for skaters from other countries.

Bradie needs to completely make over her look and style. The flailing arms look like spaghetti flying all around, and she has no presentation whatsoever. The middle of her program with the choreography is just really confusing to watch. She looks like a 2nd tier skater all the way. But good job for getting 6th- I don’t think she was really capeable of skating any better than she did.

I'd love to see her do tango. Gracie Gold wasn't the best artist, but tango requires a focused/intense face, so she pulled it off well. I think Bradie could do that.
I also think she has the potential to get better at artistry but simply doesn't have the right choreographer to work with. Also maybe acting classes or Ashley to help with her facial expressions. I would love to see her with someone like ShaeLynn because I think modern choreography would work best for her.

 

[PDilemma]

I'd love to see her do tango. Gracie Gold wasn't the best artist, but tango requires a focused/intense face, so she pulled it off well. I think Bradie could do that.
I also think she has the potential to get better at artistry but simply doesn't have the right choreographer to work with. Also maybe acting classes or Ashley to help with her facial expressions. I would love to see her with someone like ShaeLynn because I think modern choreography would work best for her.

All of this, plus packaging. The Disney princess on ice thing is just no. Cute for a 13 year old junior. Eye roll inducing for a 20 year old senior. And I don't know what's going on with her hair, but it doesn't look flattering on the ice. It needs to be softer around her face for starters.

Like it or not, packaging makes an impression on judges.

I am not sold on Starr Andrews at all. Her presentation was just not there for me. Her elements seemed rushed and her programs had no flow. She doesn't have good lines at this point. And the singing with Whitney thing struck me as an over the top gimmick. I suppose it makes me old, but I'm not a fan of gimmicks in anything. If you need a gimmick to sell yourself in any discipline, perhaps you should consider going back to fundamentals instead. She also needs a stronger choreographer and better packaging. And someone needs to teach her to "ooze like toothpaste".

 

[artsciboy]

I don't understand how "USFS did themselves in on the 3 spots with what they did at Nationals." No matter how they scored the skaters at nationals there was no way we'd get 3 spots. Nationals scoring didn't cause the international judges to suddenly get pissed off and score US skaters more harshly. All that happened was USFS was far too lenient and the international panel scored the skaters accurately. There's a reason domestic scores don't count for world records - all countries jack up the scores at Nationals - and I don't see that changing the scoring for skaters from other countries.

My view is that the USFS' chances on retaining 3 spots were drastically diminished when they chose to use PCS to prop up an Olympic and World team of Bradie-Mirai-Karen. If she had been rightfully chosen for the Olympics (which she would have had she received the same Nationals' PCS inflation that the other three did and landed in 3rd or higher) - she would have continued training with the goal of peaking in the second half of the season. You could clearly see that the jump rotations and her overall physical conditioning was much improved by Nationals versus Skate Canada. Now, whether she would have continued onwards to Worlds is no sure thing - that said, and say what you will about Ashley, she has finished no less than 7th since 2012 Worlds (even in stacked years). Given the level of skating at Worlds this year, top 6 would have been realistic.

 

[Willin]

@artsciboy I understand that argument completely - I agree that it was unfair that Ashley didn't get the nationals bump like the rest of them. BUT that would not have helped at this worlds. Shin Amano is unforgiving, and he'd get Ashley just as much as he got Mirai this time. I'm also not entirely sure that Ashley would've gone to worlds even if she did make the Olympic team - she might have gone the media route like Adam did. I honestly don't think she would've made a difference, especially with Shin Amano on the panel.

 

[Bellanca]

Like it or not, packaging makes an impression on judges.

Absolutely.

Re Bradie, she has that Carolina Kostner effect going on, she could really take advantage of her height and long limbs to put together a striking Carolinaesque look and/or package. Not that Bradie should strive to be a Kostner copy or mini-me, as everyone should have their own unique style, but I do hope that she will experiment with costumes, hairstyles, etc. Now that she is on the map, I think the makeover fans are pining for will happen. Or, so I hope.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I am not sold on Starr Andrews at all. Her presentation was just not there for me. Her elements seemed rushed and her programs had no flow. She doesn't have good lines at this point. And the singing with Whitney thing struck me as an over the top gimmick. I suppose it makes me old, but I'm not a fan of gimmicks in anything. If you need a gimmick to sell yourself in any discipline, perhaps you should consider going back to fundamentals instead. She also needs a stronger choreographer and better packaging. And someone needs to teach her to "ooze like toothpaste".

word for word...

 

[her grace]

Guaranteed GP spots for next season based on current rules:

-two spots based on finishing in the top 12 at world championships: Tennell (seeded), Nagasu, Bell

-one spot based on being in the top 24 of the SB list: only Tennell and she's already guaranteed two

-one spot based on being in the top 24 of the world standing lists: too early to say because the 2015-2016 data will be purged and the 2016-2017 data will be reduced in value. As of today (with incomplete data), these are the Americans who are in the top 24 of the current world standings: Nagasu (already guaranteed 2), Chen, Wagner, & Bell (already guaranteed 2).

-other Americans in the top 75 of the Season Best list and eligible for selection: Wang (39), Hicks (41), Cui (43), Andrews (52), Ma (53), Zhang (57), Lin (68), Edmunds (75)

 

[Coco]

Mirai's step sequence was vastly improved from Pyeongchang

 

[NAOTMAA]

Absolutely.

Re Bradie, she has that Carolina Kostner effect going on, she could really take advantage of her height and long limbs to put together a striking Carolinaesque look and/or package. Not that Bradie should strive to be a Kostner copy or mini-me, as everyone should have their own unique style, but I do hope that she will experiment with costumes, hairstyles, etc. Now that she is on the map, I think the makeover fans are pining for will happen. Or, so I hope.

I'm sure now that Bradie is national champion and the highest finishing US lady at Olympics and worlds she's getting tons of private feedback from international judges and the USFA to help improve her skating so I have no doubt over the off season her team will have a lot to consider. Hopefully it will be good advice and not something silly or stupid.

Maybe she could work with Rudy Galindo. He did Polina's beautiful Moonlight Sonata SP and her most recent SP/LP which I thought were wonderful as well. He seemed to be successful in helping a coltish girl develop some grace over a couple of seasons. They both happen to be 5'6 as well so he'll know how to get those long limbs moving properly

 

[olympic]

What do you all see as Bradie's biggest challenge to grow in upcoming years?

Technically - She is near or at the ceiling of what is possible: She repeats the Lutz, has proper edges, full rotations (mostly), backloads just as much as any top lady save Medvedeva or Zagitova, Level 4 spins. I don't see her at this point attempting to do more difficult jumps like a 3A. Her technique is a little whippy and lacks the spring or power to pull off something like that. I suppose she could attempt a 3-3 w/ a loop as the 2nd jump or backload a little more. But, then again, there are rule changes afoot that will upend what skaters have been doing the past cycle.

PCS - I think like probably most of you what she needs most to breakthrough is to develop a Kwanesque Salome moment where she is utilizing her whole body to communicate w/ the audience and tell a story. Sometimes, that's just as hard as beefing up tech content. Also, smaller things like holding a pose or landing a touch longer could go a long way. Her long limbs give her nice extension.

 

[bardtoob]

PCS - I think like probably most of you what she needs most to breakthrough is to develop a Kwanesque Salome moment where she is utilizing her whole body to communicate w/ the audience and tell a story. Sometimes, that's just as hard as beefing up tech content. Also, smaller things like holding a pose or landing a touch longer could go a long way. Her long limbs give her nice extension.

I don't think "a Kwanesque Salome moment" is relevant anymore. I think the judging is too different from that time.

 

[berthesghost]

I don't think "a Kwanesque Salome moment" is relevant anymore. I think the judging is too different from that time.

Anywho, as the bizarre comparisons to Kwan and Gold pile up I do hope Bradie doesn’t go the Frank/Lori route. Although both repackaging efforts were successful, once the results started going south for Kwan and Gold the FSU pitchforks came out as nothing is ever, ever the fault of the skater who chooses to hire and chooses to follow advice given. When Bradie’s results don’t improve I just don’t want to have to keep scrolling past all the “it’s all the new coach and coreographer’s fault!” posts, many by the same posters who repeatedly called for a new coach and choreographer.

 

[bardtoob]

Medvedeva and Zagitova spent the 1st halves of their programs skating like solo ice dancers ... Why not try getting the SS and transitions of an ice dancer? Why not have less bland costumes? Why not time arm movements and technical elements to the music for better interpretation? Why not construct a program so it feels like it has a beginning, middle, and end?

... And keep the good consistency.