U.S. Ladies [#21]: Wrapped Up with a Neat Little BOW

[Sylvia]

Food for thought (espnW article that I posted yesterday in a related thread): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ting-what-happened.103460/page-8#post-5318755

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

What I was trying to say is that Adam and the Shibs appeared not to let the Olympic pressure get to them versus some of the other US skaters who had bigger mistakes. Adam really didn't have the content to medal, so he skated relatively clean and seemed happy with his performance. I didn't mean to say that a 10th place finish and a bronze medal were equal.

It was still his strategy. I am not saying it was wrong; clearly he was happy with it. I am simply pointing out that the general “we” around here seem to be fine with some Skaters strategizing but not others. I was also pointing out that putting Adam in the same category as the bronze medal Shibs, when he placed in basically the same place as the maligned ladies seems odd.

 

[MRani]

What I was trying to say is that Adam and the Shibs appeared not to let the Olympic pressure get to them versus some of the other US skaters who had bigger mistakes. Adam really didn't have the content to medal, so he skated relatively clean and seemed happy with his performance. I didn't mean to say that a 10th place finish and a bronze medal were equal.

I think the optics are sort of interesting too. Adam came in 10th but he did so with beautiful, captivating clean skates that the audience and viewers loved. So he was considered a success. I also think he was smart with the media, self-deprecatingly playing himself up as fun to watch rather than a medal contender in the individual event. Plus it helps a lot that Nathan and Vincent came in 5th and 6th.

I think if Mirai, Bradie, and Karen had clean enjoyable skates and still got the same placements there would be a lot less hand-wringing and criticism in the media. Probably there would still be some voices here and there about why the US ladies aren’t contending for medals, but they wouldn’t be as harsh on them.

For the record, I do think the media harshness on US ladies is unfair. Realistically, none of them had a chance for the individual podium. I was hoping for clean skates and memorable Olympic moments for them.

 

[berthesghost]

For the record, I do think the media harshness on US ladies is unfair. Realistically, none of them had a chance for the individual podium. I was hoping for clean skates and memorable Olympic moments for them.

to be fair to the media (imagine that! ) I could see how headlines like "Chen goes for gold" and "Mirai lands historic jump" would attract more readers and viewers than "ice dancers lucky if they manage 3rd".

Of the big 3 we've been 3rd for a while now, and it's easier if you have gold and silver in ladies to distract from pairs, men's and dance you once owned but now can't even get close to podium in, or to focus on team gold and "most decorated dancers ever" etc. Its kinda hard to spin "worst results since 1972" into something positive, especially when your two biggest rivals totally outclassed you.

 

[MRani]

to be fair to the media (imagine that! ) I could see how headlines like "Chen goes for gold" and "Mirai lands historic jump" would attract more readers and viewers than "ice dancers lucky if they manage 3rd".

Of the big 3 we've been 3rd for a while now, and it's easier if you have gold and silver in ladies to distract from pairs, men's and dance you once owned but now can't even get close to podium in, or to focus on team gold and "most decorated dancers ever" etc. Its kinda hard to spin "worst results since 1972" into something positive, especially when your two biggest rivals totally outclassed you.

The media will do what it does in order to get clicks. A lot of the articles have been coming out from people who don’t follow figure skating or even seem to understand how it works. Anyone who paid attention this quad would know the US wasn’t a medal contender in ladies and hasn’t been for a long time. There’s plenty of positive to focus on for anyone so inclined, such as the dramatic way US got the team bronze, Mirai’s triple axel, Nathan’s historic free skate, and the super competitive dance field with three teams contending for a medal.

 

[Spun Silver]

^ It's very odd to me but most coverage I've seen denies that the way the US got its team bronze was dramatic. They say the US was never trailing and Mirai was throwing her teammates under the bus when she said she saved the medal. Admittedly, she could have put that a lot better, but the media didn't seem to understand that drama at all. I suppose they just weren't watching or, if they were, didn't understand the scoring.

 

[berthesghost]

Well, the media isn’t all one thing so luckily there’s room for more than just one angle. I know that many here dislike Phil and Christine because they don’t write articles like “dramatic team bronze win for USA” (what is that, a press release? Lol ) and instead write things like “once world leader, USA now fights b list countries just to remain in top 3”

 

[Frida80]

^ It's very odd to me but most coverage I've seen denies that the way the US got its team bronze was dramatic. They say the US was never trailing and Mirai was throwing her teammates under the bus when she said she saved the medal. Admittedly, she could have put that a lot better, but the media didn't seem to understand that drama at all. I suppose they just weren't watching or, if they were, didn't understand the scoring.

It’s both. I doubt they were really watching the TE and they clearly didn’t understand scoring of either the event or IJS in general.

The real “story” is that it’s all Mirai’s fault that US ladies weren’t on the podium. It’s all a farce to make the American public feel better about losing at the Olympics. What the media clearly doesn’t understand is that Mirai couldn’t win a medal, even if she wanted too. Kaetlyn was far too good and Satoko wasn’t far behind. The media doesn’t understand that PCS wise, Mirai was very behind and couldn’t make up the gap. So after she didn’t do her famous 3A, they created a narrative blaming her laziness as why the US failed.

This is completely unfair, as Mirai has worked so hard to get where is she is. If given more time, she’d be able to build up on her PCS scores and become a contender in the future. The media doesn’t want to take the blame for hyping US ladies and not realizing that no woman, can put out the best skate of her entire life and then duplicate it in just a week. It’s impossible. Only Eteri girls can do something like that. They elevated their own expectations too high and then blame her when she can’t meet that impossible standard.

A real sports writer would know that Mirai landing a 3A was incredible, but would be unlikely to do so again after such a short time. A real sports writer would’ve recognized the improvement in Mirai and commended her for keeping her head together for the rest of her program. A real sports writer would’ve angled this better. Promising start for Bradie Tennell. Rough experience for US Ladies. Glimmers of hope for the future.

Spinning it positively would’ve given that warm feel good that the US audiences were craving. Instead they use poor Mirai as a scapegoat. And that is a shame.

 

[Spun Silver]

I don't fully see it that way, @Frida80. I think Mirai got a sh*tstorm of bad press after her truly baffling interview and it has damaged her brand, so to speak. Otherwise she would be all over the media (in a good way) right now like Adam and the Shibs. Even so I don't see her being scapegoated for the US ladies in general but more sharing in the general doom and gloom, whereas she deserves to be held up as a shining star -- the one US lady who did realize her full potential at the Olympics. It may take another perfect 3A and another medal for her to fully get past that interview and start getting the acclaim she deserves again. I hope I'm wrong and it blows over with some good PR work by USFS or her own team.

 

[Frida80]

I don't fully see it that way, @Frida80. I think Mirai got a sh*tstorm of bad press after her truly baffling interview and it has damaged her brand, so to speak. Otherwise she would be all over the media (in a good way) right now like Adam and the Shibs. Even so I don't see her being scapegoated for the US ladies in general but more sharing in the general doom and gloom, whereas she deserves to be held up as a shining star -- the one US lady who did realize her full potential at the Olympics. It may take another perfect 3A and another medal for her to fully get past that interview and start getting the acclaim she deserves again. I hope I'm wrong and it blows over with some good PR work by USFS or her own team.

The interview was the opportunity. The titles speak for themselves, “Mirai has a thousand excuses.” They don’t really care about Gabby. Theycare about her losing. If she just said she was overwhelmed, they still would’ve raked her over the coals.

 

[Spun Silver]

The interview was the opportunity. The titles speak for themselves, “Mirai has a thousand excuses.” They don’t really care about Gabby. Theycare about her losing. If she just said she was overwhelmed, they still would’ve raked her over the coals.

I dont agree. The media loves a good horrible story, but they do know that even the best athletes can't deliver every single time. We will never know for sure but what is so depressing to me is the thought that with just a typical Olympian's "I'm sorry I couldn't deliver again" interview Mirai would be in a totally different place with the media right now. I could be wrong but I used to do PR for a living and I have a decent idea of how the media work.

 

[Bellanca]

The media does love a good 'story' and they are nothing more than a gossip rag. Lindsey Vonn has been getting kicked around pretty good, too. There will always be someone.

ETA: Apolo Ohno is also getting kicked squarely in the pants for his commercial...

 

[MRani]

The media is nothing more than a gossip rag. Lindsey Vonn has been getting kicked around pretty good, too. There will always be someone.

OT but whoahhh really? She hasn’t done anything to deserve that. Her speech after the downhill about having to retire was so moving.

 

[Willin]

@Frida80 I don't know. I don't think it was about her having a bad skate as much as it was the weird comments. Both Karen and Bradie also made mistakes, but they weren't trashed in an article. Comments about them were more aimed at general US ladies issues, not specific.
I also wonder if Mirai knows the way she was being portrayed in fluff pieces. Everyone expected Adam to not be too serious - that was known for a while. Mirai was portrayed as this serious athlete working hard to get her 3A. The only promo I saw that implied she had a sense of humor was her Reddit AmA. So when Adam says something, it's easy to take something as a joke; when Mirai says something it's easy to see it as a serious statement - even though she is actually a silly person.

I think the biggest issue here is that Mirai needs more media training. Honestly I think she didn't mean to say anything bad, just that she was trying to say sassy or irreverent things. As @Spun Silver said, there's a time to be sassy (Alina after winning gold, Adam after a good skate) and a time to keep on script. If you are going to try to be funny after making a mistake, keep it about yourself. And even then people are going to be mad because they see you as not taking the competition seriously.

The media wants a negative story - they get a lot of attention. Look at Ashley: she's only been relevant to the press and skating fans during the Olympics for one (barely) negative comment she made. If you win, you're not going to be trashed because you can fit into another popular media Olympic narrative: the feel-good/triumphant/'MURICA narrative. If you are a high profile athlete that loses, you can't be part of that narrative so they have to find another one for you. Maybe it's the Gus Kenworthy one: he had an unfortunate injury. But Mirai didn't publicize any injury, so they had to find something else, and those comments were just what they needed to make an extremely juicy narrative out of.

ETA: @MRani I can't remember all of it, but there was some tabloid/reality TV level drama going on with her between Olympics - something about Tiger Woods, so people who heard about it don't necessarily have a high opinion of her. I would assume most sports writers reporting on her heard about it.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Mirai has been interviewed for years. I don't know what was going on in her brain she should have known to comport herself better.

Bradie who has had a total of.....what....under 10 interviews...and had a ton of media pressure managed to be composed and on point in her interview.

 

[MRani]

@Frida80 I don't know. I don't think it was about her having a bad skate as much as it was the weird comments. Both Karen and Bradie also made mistakes, but they weren't trashed in an article. Comments about them were more aimed at general US ladies issues, not specific.
I also wonder if Mirai knows the way she was being portrayed in fluff pieces. Everyone expected Adam to not be too serious - that was known for a while. Mirai was portrayed as this serious athlete working hard to get her 3A. The only promo I saw that implied she had a sense of humor was her Reddit AmA. So when Adam says something, it's easy to take something as a joke; when Mirai says something it's easy to see it as a serious statement - even though she is actually a silly person.

I think the biggest issue here is that Mirai needs more media training. Honestly I think she didn't mean to say anything bad, just that she was trying to say sassy or irreverent things. As @Spun Silver said, there's a time to be sassy (Alina after winning gold, Adam after a good skate) and a time to keep on script. If you are going to try to be funny after making a mistake, keep it about yourself. And even then people are going to be mad because they see you as not taking the competition seriously.

The media wants a negative story - they get a lot of attention. Look at Ashley: she's only been relevant to the press and skating fans during the Olympics for one (barely) negative comment she made. If you win, you're not going to be trashed because you can fit into another popular media Olympic narrative: the feel-good/triumphant/'MURICA narrative. If you are a high profile athlete that loses, you can't be part of that narrative so they have to find another one for you. Maybe it's the Gus Kenworthy one: he had an unfortunate injury. But Mirai didn't publicize any injury, so they had to find something else, and those comments were just what they needed to make an extremely juicy narrative out of.

ETA: @MRani I can't remember all of it, but there was some tabloid/reality TV level drama going on with her between Olympics - something about Tiger Woods, so people who heard about it don't necessarily have a high opinion of her. I would assume most sports writers reporting on her heard about it.

I heard about that drama years ago but nothing about it being recently revived during the Olympics. A quick google search shows that all the recent articles about her are fairly positive ones about her retirement and the downhill bronze. The only negative ones are from right wing sources that are criticizing her for being anti-Trump.

Sorry for the off topic tangent guys. To bring it back to US ladies, I agree that the media loves to tear people down as much as it loves to build them up. Mirai will weather this storm.

 

[Spun Silver]

Mirai has been interviewed for years. I don't know what was going on in her brain she should have known to comport herself better.

Bradie who has had a total of.....what....under 10 interviews...and had a ton of media pressure managed to be composed and on point in her interview.

Mirai's unique bubbly personality went over great with the media after she did the 3A and won a team bronze. I'm sure she's had plenty of media training as well as years of experience, but apparently in the moment of exhaustion after the IE it didn't compute that she needed to project an Olympian's disappointment on behalf of Team USA instead of her own personal mix of feelings, self-talk and the humor that worked so well after a victory. It could even have been a matter of timing -- if she had done the standard "disappointed" interview first and then a day later talked about what was going through her head (especially having had a little time to plan her words), it would have worked out much better. Oh well. No use crying over spilt milk. I am #TeamMirai all the way and just hoping she can get past this and enjoy the fruits of what she *EARNED* ASAP.

 

[aml78]

Is Mirai training at all for Worlds? If not she really should give up her spot. It feels like she’s very focused on media opportunities right now, which is totally her right, but she really should give the alternate enough notice. And if she’s not going to seriously train, she really shouldn’t go. Does anyone have a sense for her plans?

 

[Lanie]

It just reminds me of Sasha Cohen who took advantage of all the opportunities her way and didn't train and then blew it at 2006 Worlds I'm of the opinion if you're not gonna put time in to your training to make the most of your opportunities, which I can't blame Mirai for doing, you shouldn't be heading to Worlds.

 

[Coco]

I hope she's not being talked into going to Worlds by people who either aren't realistic or don't have her best interests at heart.

If Ashley and Mariah haven't been training, USFSA is kind of up a creek, as is the #3 skater who wants to go next year. (OK, #3 was already on the creek, but still!)

 

[Yazmeen]

Perhaps we could stop ASSUMING Mirai is not training just because she's going to the Oscars???? Good grief, the drama here is starting to get ridiculous. I think she can train and still show up to get a dress fitting and be on the red carpet for one night. Good Grief!!!!!

 

[DreamSkates]

... Probably there would still be some voices here and there about why the US ladies aren’t contending for medals, but they wouldn’t be as harsh on them.

For the record, I do think the media harshness on US ladies is unfair. Realistically, none of them had a chance for the individual podium. I was hoping for clean skates and memorable Olympic moments for them.

And they failed to repeat Mirai's LP score from the team event - 137 is a strong score. Not medal level of course, but quite respectable.

 

[berthesghost]

It just reminds me of Sasha Cohen who took advantage of all the opportunities her way and didn't train and then blew it at 2006 Worlds

is that what happened? I remember her being injured all season, and even then was never the best at handling the pressure of unrealistic hype.

 

[bardtoob]

also, there's this vibe of skaters having to "prove" themselves at nats that often does them in. Debi, Kristi and Kwan both times went into their pre-Oly nats with this pressure to prove they were ready and worthy. All peaked at nats and did worse at Olys. I think it's part of what did Ashley in all 3 times. The idea of using pre Oly nats as an unofficial/ official team selection seems to only work if you're interested in seeing great performances at nats.

Why prove themselves at all. Let's just find out if they can skate when they get to the Olympics

There has to be some means for every capable skater to have an opportunity to go to the Olympics. Dare I say that Debbie, Kristi, and Michelle do not strike me as the type of skaters that, in their time, would have been just given the opportunity to skate at the Olympics. They had to kick ass on the ice to go.

Alternatively, I can see the skaters from coaches like Fassi and Heiss (Jill, Karyn, Tonia, Lisa, etc.) and the like getting every berth for that period because of their coaches name and how they were packaged, in terms of image.

 

[binbinwinwin]

Ashley Wagner went to the Oscars in 2014 and then skated a career best LP at Worlds a couple weeks later. I don't think it's a big deal to go out and make some unforgettable memories while she has these opportunities, in the end, it all comes down to Mirai.

 

[Cleo1782]

The media will do what it does in order to get clicks. A lot of the articles have been coming out from people who don’t follow figure skating or even seem to understand how it works. Anyone who paid attention this quad would know the US wasn’t a medal contender in ladies and hasn’t been for a long time. There’s plenty of positive to focus on for anyone so inclined, such as the dramatic way US got the team bronze, Mirai’s triple axel, Nathan’s historic free skate, and the super competitive dance field with three teams contending for a medal.

I mean with this team they weren't in medal contention, but two years ago they had a world silver medalist and a girl who won the short at worlds, so I mean, yeah there was some hope. Gracie and Ashley placed well at Worlds up until 2016 and Karen did well last year, so looking at the results over the last quad it would seem it was possible if you weren't following figure skating that closely.

 

[MRani]

I mean with this team they weren't in medal contention, but two years ago they had a world silver medalist and a girl who won the short at worlds, so I mean, yeah there was some hope. Gracie and Ashley placed well at Worlds up until 2016 and Karen did well last year, so looking at the results over the last quad it would seem it was possible if you weren't following figure skating that closely.

Fair point. But I feel like the minimum level of effort for a sports journalist wanting to seriously write about figure skating at the Olympics should at least include ISU PB and SB scores compared to the rest of the field. I mean, I can do that with Google and 10 minutes. That would’ve made things clear enough.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

Also something else to think about on the Ashley Wagner topic...

I'm sure she was upset to miss out on the Olympics this year, but hopefully at some point in the future when she's less emotional about it and has perspective, she will just be able to appreciate the opportunity she did get at the Olympics, and be happy for the other skaters who were able to have that same opportunity, since none of them were going to medal.

Sometimes it's just about the Olympic experience. Ashley had that opportunity four years ago, and now Karen had the opportunity based on what she did this quad. It's something both skaters will remember for the rest of their lives.

 

[berthesghost]

Why prove themselves at all. Let's just find out if they can skate when they get to the Olympics

There has to be some means for every capable skater to have an opportunity to go to the Olympics. Dare I say that Debbie, Kristi, and Michelle do not strike me as the type of skaters that, in their time, would have been just given the opportunity to skate at the Olympics. They had to kick ass on the ice to go.

Alternatively, I can see the skaters from coaches like Fassi and Heiss (Jill, Karyn, Tonia, Lisa, etc.) and the like getting every berth for that period because of their coaches name and how they were packaged, in terms of image.

anyone who can’t tell if a world champion is “good enough” to make an oly team has no business judging imho.

Yags had a shaky 01 worlds and skipped nats just before SLC so unless there’s some parallel universe where he bombed the Olys because he didn’t prove himself ready at home just before the Olys then the obsession with using nats as an oly qualifier is bs.

The pressure put on Debi, Kristi and MK in lieu of chillin out that recent world champs and world silvers “got this” was silly. If Sasha can just waltz into nats because she won an oly medal 4 years earlier, then why can’t reigning world medalists and recent champs be given a pass. Which makes more sense? All the angst about college and someone else beating them was all just a tizzy over nothing.

 

[bardtoob]

anyone who can’t tell if a world champion is “good enough” to make an oly team has no business judging imho.

Yags had a shaky 01 worlds and skipped nats just before SLC so unless there’s some parallel universe where he bombed the Olys because he didn’t prove himself ready at home just before the Olys then the obsession with using nats as an oly qualifier is bs.

The pressure put on Debi, Kristi and MK in lieu of chillin out that recent world champs and world silvers “got this” was silly. If Sasha can just waltz into nats because she won an oly medal 4 years earlier, then why can’t reigning world medalists and recent champs be given a pass. Which makes more sense? All the angst about college and someone else beating them was all just a tizzy over nothing.

When do the judges get to do their business of judging?