U.S. Ladies [#21]: Wrapped Up with a Neat Little BOW

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Well, it's interesting to hear the other side of the boot problems narrative... :watch::watch::watch::watch:

I'm honestly shocked that she's used the same boot maker. I was under the impression that she had switched brands instead of ordering tons of boots from one brand. Seriously, California has at least Harlick and SP Teri in state - both great skate makers who do deeply custom things. (Although being smaller, neither could get stuff quickly in an emergency) Jackson and Edea are known to fit many top skaters. Riedell has worked with many US champs. If the brand wasn't working out for her, I have no idea why she'd keep returning.

Even though this is a bad PR move and it seems people are already planning to boycott their product, I was interested to see Avanta's statement. Interestingly enough, they started this on her private FB page first by saying that she'd chosen to use her worn out skates instead of the newer pairs she had, and that's what they thought was the problem. Here they specifically accuse her of having extensive third party alterations done on the skates. If that's not true they're setting themselves up for a lawsuit; if it's true - it raises more questions about why Karen would buy skates from them only to alter them.

I was surprised that the company responded. I don't think most people knew what brand of boots Karen used, and because she was the one saying they didn't work I don't think anyone cared. Now that the company is bringing themselves into this they're making themselves look bad - even if it's unclear that they're actually in the wrong.

Either way, it's delicious drama
 
Wow... incredibly unprofessional response by the company. The dig about her disgracing the meaning of being an Olympian is WAY over the top and caustic.

They could have made their point in a much better way, without personal insults and melodrama.
 
Their response was beyond stupid. Karen has had so many boot issues, that it was like crying wolf at this point. No one would ever have blamed their company for her boot issues. By making this dumb post, they are attacking a teenaged Olympian and making her the victim. This is their most commented post with the vast majority being negative. Will should’ve kept his opinion to himself and dealt with this privately. Now the Avanta brand is damaged and Karen looks like a victim.

Dumb... just dumb.
 
Willin said:
I'm honestly shocked that she's used the same boot maker. I was under the impression that she had switched brands instead of ordering tons of boots from one brand.
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I believe Avanta was the switch. I think she was originally in Harlicks? Not sure, but I think it was last year I read that she had switched to Avanta and seemed to be doing better. It was 2 years ago that she had the massive boot problems which led her to wear her brother's old skates for a while.
 
I doubt they suddenly issued this defense in a vacuum. The whole statement smacks of a rebuttal to repeated accusations so I wouldn’t assume they had no negative feedback before issuing the overly defensive statement. It’s been painfully obvious that she’s been throwing her boots under the bus to distract from poor performances, so good for them for calling her bluff. A national champion shouldn’t be issuing public whines like some Yelp poster who was served a cold grilled cheese imho. I like her skating but all the social media oversharing makes her look bad.
 
I don't think its unprofessional of the company at all. People need to grow up, take responsibility for your success and problems and quit blaming others.

Even Karen's coach said "Enough with the boots."

Stay off social media I say. Everyone seems to have an obsession with being the victim 24/7. You dont need for us to pray for you. If you're not ready, you're not ready.

So many people are addicted to their social media to showcase their "victimness."

Its time to put the cell phone down, spend 99% less time on social media and 99.5% taking responsibility of your life.

Now let the whining begin. LOL.
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
I don't think its unprofessional of the company at all. People need to grow up, take responsibility for your success and problems and quit blaming others.

Even Karen's coach said "Enough with the boots."

Stay off social media I say. Everyone seems to have an obsession with being the victim 24/7. You dont need for us to pray for you. If you're not ready, you're not ready.

So many people are addicted to their social media to showcase their "victimness."

Its time to put the cell phone down, spend 99% less time on social media and 99.5% taking responsibility of your life.

Now let the whining begin. LOL.
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One could make every point you made and agree and still read what the company wrote and see how incredibly unprofessional, disproportionate, and needlessly personal their post was. This is not how one conducts a business.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
One could make every point you made and agree and still read what the company wrote and see how incredibly unprofessional, disproportionate, and needlessly personal their post was. This is not how one conducts a business.
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Maybe.

But thats not how a grown up conducts oneself either.

Some companies learn that there are some people's business you just dont want. If I was a boot manufacturer I might like the heads up. And if she goes to social media over the years to mention the boots then you can't claim victim when (after years of not doing so) the company does as she does. (And then has audacity to ask for Prayer because of the boots? As the boot manufacturer I might chime in at some point too.)

Seriously, she's on the biggest stage there is, The Olympics, and says Please Pray for me and these boots to work? She did that to the boot manufacturer? If this was a one-time thing maybe. But this could take up 6 chapters in her book. I think the manufacturer should be praised for having the calm to hold its tongue for the last 2 weeks.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. But people who are about publicizing their "woes" on social media seem to think you can have cake and eat it and eat it, and then claim foul when "life seems unfair."

As a grown up if I go on to social media and have negative comments about one of my clients or customers or suppliers for years and years I shouldn't be surprised if they defend themselves in any capacity.

At this point she should make her own boots.
 
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VIETgrlTerifa said:
One could make every point you made and agree and still read what the company wrote and see how incredibly unprofessional, disproportionate, and needlessly personal their post was. This is not how one conducts a business.
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Thank you. I work as a medical writer and professional educator, and I have worked with high-powered faculty who occasionally make me want to tear my hair out with their whining and unprofessional behavior. But I still write with evidence-based accuracy and to make them look as good as possible, even when they're being asshats and not on top of their game.

I'm frankly tired of Karen's boot issues, this should have been solved long ago. That said, just because she spoke out in public doesn't mean they had to hit back the way they did. Karen never said that Avanta gave her bad boots, she just explained what happened with them in practice. The way Avanta handled it was shockingly bad, especially to accuse her of having something improper done to the boot. If they felt something was improper, they could have handled this privately with her. And if they did and that didn't help, there were still ways to make a public statement that wasn't the equivalent of a 3-year-old's tantrum. Sorry, massively unprofessional on their part.
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
As a grown up if I go on to social media and have negative comments about one of my clients or customers or suppliers for years and years I shouldn't be surprised if they defend themselves in any capacity.
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I get your point, but you're not the only grown up here and just reading what they wrote was not merely defending themselves but an immature rant that has done nothing but brought a wrath of scrutiny and negative publicity about their brand (even if a small number of people have shown support). Also, the fact that they were caught sockpuppeting or creating fake users posing as customers to defend the company and probably to attack Karen shows what sort of integrity this company has. Businesses, big or small, need to learn how to deal with problem clients/customers and bad/unfair reviews. What Avanta did here should be used as an example in business school on how NOT to respond. Not to mention, actually taking what Karen actually said shows their reaction was incredibly disproportionate to what she actually did (which most people who posted in the other thread and on social media have said they did not even attribute Karen's problems with the boot manufacturer until they made that post). It has done nothing but brought them an incredible amount of negative attention that they would not have received if they just continued to deal with this matter privately or ignored it.

Furthermore, I have a higher standard for businesses in the way they conduct themselves publicly. As somebody who has worked in my extended family's small businesses, worked in retail in large chains, worked in food service, whose father owns a small business before I went into another line of work, you don't need big PR teams to know how to conduct and handle yourself in a problem situation. You also know how to assess a situation before you act. The person who wrote that post has no business representing that company publicly nor should be in charge of communication. I had family members who didn't speak English that well know how to communicate with their customers better.

There's also another point of contention that I have with some of the "defenders" of this company. It seems most people are just annoyed with Karen, are angry with her behavior, think she's a problem person, is using her as a proxy to criticize this weaker and more entitled younger generation, etc. I think you can think that (though I think it's a bit immature myself and quick to paint these things in such a black/white manner) but separate your feelings and whatever fault you attribute to Karen when analyzing Avanta's response here.
 
Let's just hope in 4 years in Beijing the US somehow still has 3 spots and skaters making the Olympic team didn't compete at 2008 Nationals or we are in real trouble. I don't see anyone from the current crop 17 or older being competitive so hopefully the younger girls in Juniors or Novice will raise the level of skating and become real contenders and not just hoping for a top 6 finish. It's going to take the lower levels time to build champions.
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
I don't think its unprofessional of the company at all. People need to grow up, take responsibility for your success and problems and quit blaming others.

Even Karen's coach said "Enough with the boots."

Stay off social media I say. Everyone seems to have an obsession with being the victim 24/7. You dont need for us to pray for you. If you're not ready, you're not ready.

So many people are addicted to their social media to showcase their "victimness."

Its time to put the cell phone down, spend 99% less time on social media and 99.5% taking responsibility of your life.

Now let the whining begin. LOL.
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Aside from the line I struck out, your whole post also describes Avanta! :rofl:
 
Jammers said:
Let's just hope in 4 years in Beijing the US somehow still has 3 spots and skaters making the Olympic team didn't compete at 2008 Nationals or we are in real trouble. I don't see anyone from the current crop 17 or older being competitive so hopefully the younger girls in Juniors or Novice will raise the level of skating and become real contenders and not just hoping for a top 6 finish. It's going to take the lower levels time to build champions.
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I have high hopes for Ting Cui -- she seems to be quite the little jumper!
 
Yazmeen said:
I'm frankly tired of Karen's boot issues, this should have been solved long ago. That said, just because she spoke out in public doesn't mean they had to hit back the way they did.
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I agree completely. I didn't even know she had Avanta boots and I would say I'm a pretty avid skating fan (and skater, who knows what Avanta boots even are).

That being said, though her boot problems were :rolleyes:, she never to my knowledge mentioned that they were Avanta boots. I'm sure if I did a bit of research I could figure it out, but if I did research I would also find that Karen is always complaining about her boots, Avanta or not. So even if she was publicly blaming her boots for her poor skating, she didn't specifically call them out like "Ugh Avanta ruined my Olympics with their crap product!" or something.

Their IG post was an overreaction by several magnitudes, and both horrible PR and downright childish as someone who is an experienced skater fitter reacting to an 18-year-old girl. Karen is no victim here, but Avanta's post is making her seem like one.
 
She threw her boot manufacturer (who from what everyone is saying, has bent over backwards for her) under the bus during the biggest skating competition of all time. She should not have posted about her boot issues. Are we now in an era where Olympic athletes are going to start posting every ache and pain they feel before a huge competition...just in case they perform crappy? It was wrong of her to post that picture.
 
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UGG said:
She threw her boot manufacturer (who from what everyone is saying, has bent over backwards for her) under the bus
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For all I know, everything in that Instagram message was true. Having read everything in this thread and the one specific to the issue, however, I am unable to find any evidence that she even identified the boot manufacturer, let alone said that it was responsible for her boot problems. Get a grip!
 
I have no problem with Karen instagramming about a boot problem. Everyone handles problems differently, may it be eating disorders, gay bullying, injuries or boots that are giving an 18-year old girl problems before the biggest day in her life. Why are you a hero talking about one and a whiner talking about the other? When you work your way to the Olympics with all the sacrifices that means, she has the right to do things her way. Go out there and skate with boots that are hurting your feet, see how it feels like. If you didn't know, it sucks worse than many things.
 
Dobre said:
Ting's JGP event was this season. She was second in novices last year. She did pretty well to earn a spot on the JGP, and she did pretty well on it--seeing as how she bested the then Junior National Champion in the SP there. Now she has qualified for Junior Worlds over all of those ladies except for Starr.

Ting does need more experience competing internationally, and she seems to need work on her spins & performance. She didn't do all she could at Nationals. And she could have. Totally nailed that triple triple combo in the warm up before missing it in the SP. But Ting also came roaring back and scored within half a point of Alyssa Liu in the free skate and besting her on TES. Ting clawed her way up from 11th place to third overall with that FS.

Which is not a bad sign for a competitor.

I stumbled upon some nice, clear footage of Ting's, Alyssa's, & Pooja's Junior Nationals Free Skates this week. It's quite likely they were posted earlier, but I hadn't seen them myself so for anyone else who missed them:

Alyssa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGBGDkkh7xU
Pooja: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RadTGfgM2OM
Ting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l82z8sGt2So

There are also links from those pages to performances by the other girls, like Hannah, from Junior Nationals. All the junior girls still have plenty to learn, but it was nice to see the top three lay down such solid free skates.
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That little Alysa sure has the "it" factor at age 12. Can't wait to see how she does in the future.
 
Vagabond said:
For all I know, everything in that Instagram message was true. Having read everything in this thread and the one specific to the issue, however, I am unable to find any evidence that she even identified the boot manufacturer, let alone said that it was responsible for her boot problems. Get a grip!
Click to expand...

I have been sipping wine and watching a movie. My grip is just fine.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
I get your point, but you're not the only grown up here and just reading what they wrote was not merely defending themselves but an immature rant that has done nothing but brought a wrath of scrutiny and negative publicity about their brand (even if a small number of people have shown support). Also, the fact that they were caught sockpuppeting or creating fake users posing as customers to defend the company and probably to attack Karen shows what sort of integrity this company has. Businesses, big or small, need to learn how to deal with problem clients/customers and bad/unfair reviews. What Avanta did here should be used as an example in business school on how NOT to respond. Not to mention, actually taking what Karen actually said shows their reaction was incredibly disproportionate to what she actually did (which most people who posted in the other thread and on social media have said they did not even attribute Karen's problems with the boot manufacturer until they made that post). It has done nothing but brought them an incredible amount of negative attention that they would not have received if they just continued to deal with this matter privately or ignored it.

Furthermore, I have a higher standard for businesses in the way they conduct themselves publicly. As somebody who has worked in my extended family's small businesses, worked in retail in large chains, worked in food service, whose father owns a small business before I went into another line of work, you don't need big PR teams to know how to conduct and handle yourself in a problem situation. You also know how to assess a situation before you act. The person who wrote that post has no business representing that company publicly nor should be in charge of communication. I had family members who didn't speak English that well know how to communicate with their customers better.

There's also another point of contention that I have with some of the "defenders" of this company. It seems most people are just annoyed with Karen, are angry with her behavior, think she's a problem person, is using her as a proxy to criticize this weaker and more entitled younger generation, etc. I think you can think that (though I think it's a bit immature myself and quick to paint these things in such a black/white manner) but separate your feelings and whatever fault you attribute to Karen when analyzing Avanta's response here.
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Love you to pieces @VIETgrlTerifa but we can agree to disagree on this one. I agree with almost everything else with you... :)
 
I really can't believe people are defending Avanta's "professionalism" here. Think about it this way - I have friends who worked at Disneyland. From what I've heard from them privately, full-grown adults can turn into petulant 5-year-olds when they step foot into Disneyland. It happens every single day. I'm sure such people rant day-in and day-out on their social media about how awful Disneyland is for not giving them absolutely everything their hearts desired. Do my friends post about it publicly on Facebook for everyone to see? No! Does the CEO of Disney go on Twitter to tell people to suck it up when they whinge about increased ticket prices? NO! Every one of my friends working any customer service job know not to do this. They'd be fired the next day!

Is the customer always right? Certainly not always. In such matters, you handle it privately. Blaming the customer on a public platform is not professional, period.

I'm not saying that the staff at Avanta are bad people. Being reactionary and defensive is a very human thing to be. But they need to be running their business better. And they should hire someone to do social media who is not reactionary or defensive.
 
giselle23 said:
That little Alysa sure has the "it" factor at age 12. Can't wait to see how she does in the future.
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Random observation - I actually was on the ice with Alysa a few weeks ago when she was filming promo for something in a crowded public session. She was doing amazing spins and even a few triple flips in the middle of the public session. No wonder why she's rock-solid at competitions! :lol:

I'm still :eek: at how tiny she is. I'm 5'5" and she comes up to my armpit. Because she's so small, her jumps being small doesn't seem unusual. They don't seem particularly whipped around, for one thing.
 
Elisheba said:
As long as it isn't "Nessun Dorma" I'm ok with Turandot.
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Speaking of Tosca and Turandot, I was just listening to the murder scene in Tosca where Tosca stabs Scarpia and then, staring at his dead body, says, "Davanti a lui tremava tutta Roma!" (All Rome trembled before him!) I couldn't help hearing it through the lens of Me Too. (He was the head of the police and had been trying to force Tosca to have sex with him by making her listen to her lover being tortured for having harbored a political prisoner. No sex, no lover back.) Has anyone done that scene? Tsurskaya has the look but I doubt she's ever heard of Me Too. I'd nominate Karen but she's Puccini'd out. (Although if she pretended it was Will Murillo.... :EVILLE:) So that leaves Ashley. She has to come back!
 
Spun Silver said:
Speaking of Tosca and Turandot, I was just listening to the murder scene in Tosca where Tosca stabs Scarpia and then, staring at his dead body, says, "Davanti a lui tremava tutta Roma!" (All Rome trembled before him!) I couldn't help hearing it through the lens of Me Too. (He was the head of the police and had been trying to force Tosca to have sex with him by making her listen to her lover being tortured for having harbored a political prisoner. No sex, no lover back.) Has anyone done that scene? Tsurskaya has the look but I doubt she's ever heard of Me Too. I'd nominate Karen but she's Puccini'd out. (Although if she pretended it was Will Murillo.... :EVILLE:) So that leaves Ashley. She has to come back!
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You expect skaters to be familiar with the operas they use? I saw one skater (forget who) STAB herself during Tosca. Tosca jumps out a window. Unless she was portraying Scarpia, which would be weird.
 
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