The Dance Hall, Part 4: To Helsinki & Back -- Seeking Rhumba Magic ...

[cocotaffy]

I consider them judges too. Some do both a lot. Go from tech panel to judging panel and wear many hats. They are all really the same people.

Ok, I understand your logic now.

 

[manhn]

Weaver's costume was iconic and outstanding.

 

[princeton123]

You do realize that H/D hadn't even been skating together for a full year yet at that point?

I didn't know that, but I still kind of stand by my comment. They're both incredibly stiff as individual dancers.

 

[ninalovesskating]

I didn't know that, but I still kind of stand by my comment. They're both incredibly stiff as individual dancers.

I find H/D one of the most fluid teams in ice dance.

 

[Dobre]

I only remember that Luca was good.

He is the only one I remember as being good throughout the entire event. And clearly, there is a reason that I didn't rewatch those SDs.

I don't know why a Latin dance couldn't benefit a team with a strong male lead. I see no reason why it can't. Rather that if the guy is going to sell the program, then it needs a strong male lead with personality. Most of the current teams were very young or new the last time they did Latin. I expect to see something very different from them this coming season.

As always, I also expect teams to be great that I didn't expect to be great and others to disappoint. It always happens. Always.

 

[princeton123]

I didn't know that, but I still kind of stand by my comment. They're both incredibly stiff as individual dancers.

As skaters? Sure. As dancers? Ehhhhh...

 

[DreamsofBliss]

Meanwhile, Victoria posted this today.

 

[barbarafan]

Meanwhile, Victoria posted this today.

interesting...legs look good...too bad about the shoulder and the brain.

 

[cocotaffy]

interesting...legs look good...too bad about the shoulder and the brain.

Indeed such a shame

 

[Dobre]

The Transition: Post 6

Following up on my earlier posts observing the teams transitioning from juniors to seniors.

Updated Challenger, GP, & Major International scores for this season (in order, top scores at the top). Additions since my last update are in bold:
Pogrebinsky & Benoit—Tallinn Trophy—total: 167.81, SD: 65.94, FD: 101.87
Pogrebinsky & Benoit--Nebelhorn Trophy--total: 155.20, SD: 63.06, FD: 92.14
Pogrebinsky & Benoit--Rostelecom--total: 153.92, SD: 62.93, FD: 90.99
Lauriault & Le Gac—European Championships—total: 152.4, SD: 61.48, FD 90.92
Pogrebinsky & Benoit--Skate America--total: 151.76, SD: 58.18, FD: 93.58
Lauriault & Le Gac--Trophee de France--total: 150.07, SD: 57.37, FD: 92.7
Lauriault & Le Gac—NHK Trophy—total: 149.99, SD: 58.21, 91.78
Lauriault & Le Gac--Autumn Classic--total: 143.60, SD: 55.46, FD: 88.14
Evdokimova & Bazin—Golden Spin—total: 142.96, SD: 56.8, FD: 86.16
Evdokimova & Bazin--total: 133.37, SD: 55.83, FD: 77.54
Kuzmich & Sinicyn—Golden Spin—total: 129.38, SD: 46.18, FD: 83.22
Biechler & Dodge--Lombardia Trophy--total: 127.76, SD: 52.04, FD: 75.72
Bent & Razgulajevs--Ondrej Nepela Memorial--total: 121.22, SD: 48.30, FD: 72.92
Sales & Wamsteeker--Autumn Classic--total: 112.52, SD: 46.76, FD: 65.76
Lee & Kam—Four Continents--total, 112.42, SD: 44.57, FD: 67.85
Bent & Razgulajevs--U.S. International Classic--total: 112.10, SD: 46.22, FD: 65.88
Fedyushchenko & Kitteridge-Nebelhorn Trophy--total: 110.90, SD: 42.26, FD: 68.64

New Observations:

Lauriault & Le Gac earned 56.43 for their SD at Worlds (@5 points below their SB) and just missed the FD cut, finishing 21st. They end the season with the second strongest record for a transitioning team.

Kuzmich(ova) & Sinicyn earned 51.02 for their SD at Worlds and finished 26th. They earned 47.16 for their SD at Europeans, finishing 26th as well so Worlds was an improvement. (They also went to Junior Worlds this season where they finished 9th with a total score of 134.12 and an SD score of 53.93).

Lee & Kam earned a 112.42 total for their performance at 4CCs, 16 points below their score at 4CCs last year. This year's performance included a fall.


For reference, last season's Personal Best scores for transitioning teams included the following:
152.72 Lauriault & Le Gac-#5 at the JGPF
146.83 Pogrebinsky & Benoit-#4 at Junior Worlds
142.32 Biechler & Dodge-#3 at Austria JGP, #5 at U.S. Junior Nationals
138.42 Bent & Razgulajevs-#2 at Colorado Springs JGP, #9 at Junior Worlds
137.60 Evdokimova & Bazin-#3 at Riga JGP, #10 at 2015 Junior Worlds
129.28 Lee & Kam-#4 at Bratislava JGP, #14 at Junior Worlds. (These two technically moved up last season at 4CCs, but skated the rest of their international season as juniors).
128.91 Kuzmich & Sinicyn-#11 at Junior Worlds
122.87 Sales & Wamsteeker-#6 at Austria JGP, #4 at Canadian Junior Nationals
101.73 Fedyushchenko & Kitteridge-#24 at Junior Worlds, #10 at JGP Logrono

 

[ninalovesskating]

The Transition: Post 6

Following up on my earlier posts observing the teams transitioning from juniors to seniors.

Updated Challenger, GP, & Major International scores for this season (in order, top scores at the top). Additions since my last update are in bold:
Pogrebinsky & Benoit—Tallinn Trophy—total: 167.81, SD: 65.94, FD: 101.87
Pogrebinsky & Benoit--Nebelhorn Trophy--total: 155.20, SD: 63.06, FD: 92.14
Pogrebinsky & Benoit--Rostelecom--total: 153.92, SD: 62.93, FD: 90.99
Lauriault & Le Gac—European Championships—total: 152.4, SD: 61.48, FD 90.92
Pogrebinsky & Benoit--Skate America--total: 151.76, SD: 58.18, FD: 93.58
Lauriault & Le Gac--Trophee de France--total: 150.07, SD: 57.37, FD: 92.7
Lauriault & Le Gac—NHK Trophy—total: 149.99, SD: 58.21, 91.78
Lauriault & Le Gac--Autumn Classic--total: 143.60, SD: 55.46, FD: 88.14
Evdokimova & Bazin—Golden Spin—total: 142.96, SD: 56.8, FD: 86.16
Evdokimova & Bazin--total: 133.37, SD: 55.83, FD: 77.54
Kuzmich & Sinicyn—Golden Spin—total: 129.38, SD: 46.18, FD: 83.22
Biechler & Dodge--Lombardia Trophy--total: 127.76, SD: 52.04, FD: 75.72
Bent & Razgulajevs--Ondrej Nepela Memorial--total: 121.22, SD: 48.30, FD: 72.92
Sales & Wamsteeker--Autumn Classic--total: 112.52, SD: 46.76, FD: 65.76
Lee & Kam—Four Continents--total, 112.42, SD: 44.57, FD: 67.85
Bent & Razgulajevs--U.S. International Classic--total: 112.10, SD: 46.22, FD: 65.88
Fedyushchenko & Kitteridge-Nebelhorn Trophy--total: 110.90, SD: 42.26, FD: 68.64

New Observations:

Lauriault & Le Gac earned 56.43 for their SD at Worlds (@5 points below their SB) and just missed the FD cut, finishing 21st. They end the season with the second strongest record for a transitioning team.

Kuzmich(ova) & Sinicyn earned 51.02 for their SD at Worlds and finished 26th. They earned 47.16 for their SD at Europeans, finishing 26th as well so Worlds was an improvement. (They also went to Junior Worlds this season where they finished 9th with a total score of 134.12 and an SD score of 53.93).

Lee & Kam earned a 112.42 total for their performance at 4CCs, 16 points below their score at 4CCs last year. This year's performance included a fall.


For reference, last season's Personal Best scores for transitioning teams included the following:
152.72 Lauriault & Le Gac-#5 at the JGPF
146.83 Pogrebinsky & Benoit-#4 at Junior Worlds
142.32 Biechler & Dodge-#3 at Austria JGP, #5 at U.S. Junior Nationals
138.42 Bent & Razgulajevs-#2 at Colorado Springs JGP, #9 at Junior Worlds
137.60 Evdokimova & Bazin-#3 at Riga JGP, #10 at 2015 Junior Worlds
129.28 Lee & Kam-#4 at Bratislava JGP, #14 at Junior Worlds. (These two technically moved up last season at 4CCs, but skated the rest of their international season as juniors).
128.91 Kuzmich & Sinicyn-#11 at Junior Worlds
122.87 Sales & Wamsteeker-#6 at Austria JGP, #4 at Canadian Junior Nationals
101.73 Fedyushchenko & Kitteridge-#24 at Junior Worlds, #10 at JGP Logrono

It will be interesting to see how this season's junior teams do as seniors next season... Parsons, M/C, L/D, and I think Abachkina/Thauron too?

 

[MarieM]

Parsons won't do well IMO considering who's still skating for USA.
Thauron & Angélique won't fare well IMO. She's getting to big (tall) for him.

 

[Spiralgraph]

IMO. how well the Parsons do is dependent on how P/B and H/B fare in the fall competitions and GP series. If all teams skate well , I'm guessing that P/P and H/B will be fighting for that fourth spot at USA Nationals with P/B and M/C duelling out for sixth. Sadly I think C/M will sink in the rankings like the Titanic
And I wonder if all three top American team stay in for the next Olympic cycle to 2022, how that will affect the newish senior teams coming up from juniors. Just contemplating that makes my head ache.

 

[MarieM]

The USA seniors are way better than any of those junior teams coming out. Those stand no chance IMO as long as they gon't get "seniors".

 

[chapis]

IMO. how well the Parsons do is dependent on how P/B and H/B fare in the fall competitions and GP series. If all teams skate well , I'm guessing that P/P and H/B will be fighting for that fourth spot at USA Nationals with P/B and M/C duelling out for sixth. Sadly I think C/M will sink in the rankings like the Titanic
And I wonder if all three top American team stay in for the next Olympic cycle to 2022, how that will affect the newish senior teams coming up from juniors. Just contemplating that makes my head ache.

sorry, who are P/B?

 

[Spiralgraph]

They are Pogrebinsky & Benoit, who finished fourth at USA Nationals when Howayek and Baker fell in their free dance. Dobre posted above that P/B finished fourth at junior worlds a year ago.

 

[Spiralgraph]

There's usually a pecking order for new junior champs coming up. For US nationals only the junior champ especially if they are the defending junior world champ, will usually place around the fourth position at nationals. Next year will be a bit unpredictable with H/B and P/P and M/C all being junior world champs. None of these teams will break into the top three at Nationals unless there is an injury or an epic breakdown, (please no!)

But how will they do on the GP series? Marie you may be right they may fare poorly, but predicting what formerly junior team ends where is a crap game.

 

[MarieM]

They just are craptacular Junior teams. All current junior teams are craptacular IMO compared to the senior teams.
Jean-Luc Baker and his partner are on the up but stand no chance compared to the current top 3.

 

[VGThuy]

I think the Parsons are magnificent and with those edges and glide, they have all the potential in the world. I also think Carreira/Ponomarenko have promise but I wish they wouldn't be saddled with Igor choreography for the next few years.

 

[ninalovesskating]

Parsons won't do well IMO considering who's still skating for USA.
Thauron & Angélique won't fare well IMO. She's getting to big (tall) for him.

I agree with the Parsons comment. Even as juniors, I don't see anything special and therefore can't label this team as "the one to watch"... In my point of view, Carreira/Ponomarenko are the only junior US team right now that are capable of winning an Olympic medal in the near future. I think Pogrebinsky/Benoit are doing pretty good, considering it's their first season as seniors.

I think Abachkina/Thauron are gonna be fine.

 

[chameleonster]

I think it would be wise to not underestimate P/B in the battle for the pewter next season, considering that they had a very smooth transition to seniors in their third season together with basically no hype.

I am very interested in seeing the current crop of juniors compete at the senior level for better comparison. The US is going to start running out of room for GP spots soon if none of the current top three retire after 2018, what with at least three junior world champs(and, judging by Junior Worlds, very likely four once Carreira/Ponomarenko are done with juniors) and multiple national pewter medallists. I wonder who is going to get Skate America this year.

 

[Areski]

They just are craptacular Junior teams. All current junior teams are craptacular IMO compared to the senior teams.
Jean-Luc Baker and his partner are on the up but stand no chance compared to the current top 3.

I would not call Parsons ''craptacular''. Great, deep edges, intricate holds, sophistication ... better than many mid-tier senior teams. Representing USA though means uphill battle for them at least in their first season.

As for ''craptacular'' the only team that springs to my mind from top 10 Junior Worlds finishers are Abachkina / Thauron but it's not exactly their fault. These two really give cringeworthy impression to me, with that Shpilband packaging.

 

[clairecloutier]

I wouldn't count out Pogrebinsky/Benoit, either. The advantage they have is their size. They're so tall, it just automatically makes them look more like a senior team. Which I bet is partly why Igor moved them up so soon.

 

[chameleonster]

I wouldn't count out Pogrebinsky/Benoit, either. The advantage they have is their size. They're so tall, it just automatically makes them look more like a senior team. Which I bet is partly why Igor moved them up so soon.

Yeah, they're very young, but its not as obvious as it was with say, newly senior H/B just because they're so massive. And their size combined with their speed and power makes it very easy for them to fill a rink, and her flexibility makes for some really impactful lifts and spins. They have a lot of wow factor, and Igor is invested enough in them that he sent them to get FD choreo from Shae-Lynn.

Anyway, I think all the top junior teams have their own strengths, although its currently unclear how they'll each translate to seniors. One also can't underestimate a season of unexpected growth, possibly facilitated by a coaching change, just look at P/C. They're all very young, so it'll be interesting to see how they grow.

 

[Impromptu]

I wouldn't count out Pogrebinsky/Benoit, either. The advantage they have is their size. They're so tall, it just automatically makes them look more like a senior team. Which I bet is partly why Igor moved them up so soon.

I don't disagree with the fact that their height and power made their transition to senior easier, and may have been a factor in moving them up. In fact, at 2016 Nationals, I thought that P/B had the most senior look to their skating (even compared to the Parsons, and MacNamara/Carpenter). But in terms of Igor's motivation, he may also have been wanting to clear the way at the Junior level for Carreira/Ponomarenko to make a move, since they're also his team.

 

[chameleonster]

I don't disagree with the fact that their height and power made their transition to senior easier, and may have been a factor in moving them up. In fact, at 2016 Nationals, I thought that P/B had the most senior look to their skating (even compared to the Parsons, and MacNamara/Carpenter). But in terms of Igor's motivation, he may also have been wanting to clear the way at the Junior level for Carreira/Ponomarenko to make a move, since they're also his team.

Its possible that Carreira/Ponomarenko were a factor, and this turned out best for the both of them(C/P getting a world medal and P/B getting the pewter at nationals) although I don't think it was the main motivation. I actually think that aside from P/B's senior look, M/C and Parsons staying junior convinced them to move on. I believe P/B were actually originally signed up for Chesapeake Open at the junior level, and I heard that they were originally planning to stay junior until they heard that the WISA teams were too, weighed their options, and decided that they might as well try to make the leap to seniors and get some experience. Which has certainly worked out for them.

 

[VGThuy]

That makes a lot of sense. It also seems like Igor's teams tend to move to senior faster that WISA does...just using the most recent examples.

 

[ninalovesskating]

Speaking of coaching, I would love to see Carreira/Ponomarenko train under the guidance of Marie-France and Patrice. I think it will be very good for C/P, especially since they're starting to mature. Plus, Christina is from Montreal...

 

[mollymgr]

I love P/B. They have shown consistency throughout the season, which can't be said of all teams who make that jump. They have a very striking quality to them. I hope they continue their success at the senior level.

 

[DreamsofBliss]

Nationals next year in the US will be very intense for ice dance. It's hard to imagine that either P/B or a former WJC will be staying home from the consolation prize of Four Continents.