ISU statement on Mariah Bell and Eun soo Lim

[overedge]

Honestly, Lim and/or her family probably don't see any need to fire ATS. I bet back in Korea, most people who paid attention only heard ATS side of the story and are totally on Lim's side.

If it's the top agency for sports stars in Korea, they may not feel that they have much choice as to who they "should" be working with.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I think TAT calls him Rafik - guess it's a nickname.

Asked a Russian-speaking colleague about that. She said that you use that "nickname" for a child or a younger man you personally know. Not a stranger. She said it's not quiet an insult, but reeks of disrespect.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Asked a Russian-speaking colleague about that. She said that you use that "nickname" for a child or a younger man you personally know. Not a stranger. She said it's not quiet an insult, but reeks of disrespect.

... i first learned that he can be called "Rafik" here on FSU...

 

[nathanfan]

Asked a Russian-speaking colleague about that. She said that you use that "nickname" for a child or a younger man you personally know. Not a stranger. She said it's not quiet an insult, but reeks of disrespect.

Thanks for the info. TAT would be in a position to call him that, though.

 

[Wyliefan]

There was never going to be any follow up because they have nothing to show.

What they did was take a big dump and walked away. They accomplished what they set out to do.

And the really awful thing is that a lot of people will believe it forever, because they don't believe that anyone would make such an accusation without evidence.

 

[Vagabond]

Asked a Russian-speaking colleague about that. She said that you use that "nickname" for a child or a younger man you personally know. Not a stranger. She said it's not quiet an insult, but reeks of disrespect.

Surprise, surprise!

 

[CaliSteve]

And the really awful thing is that a lot of people will believe it forever, because they don't believe that anyone would make such an accusation without evidence.

They want to believe what they want to believe. Its sad and tragic.

 

[Angela-Fan]

And the really awful thing is that a lot of people will believe it forever, because they don't believe that anyone would make such an accusation without evidence.

It's so frustrating that they can do what they did and get away with it.

 

[Tinami Amori]

And the really awful thing is that a lot of people will believe it forever, because they don't believe that anyone would make such an accusation without evidence.

... you don't watch local and world news lately..

 

[Wyliefan]

Of course accusations in general can be made without evidence. This particular one, however, had some very specific charges in it -- charges that could most likely be refuted. It could be easily and conclusively demonstrated one way or the other whether Mariah really received an official warning, whether Raf changed her or Eunsoo's session times, etc. It's far riskier to make charges like that if there's a chance they can be refuted, which is why people are inclined to believe them.

 

[skatfan]

Of course accusations in general can be made without evidence. This particular one, however, had some very specific charges in it -- charges that could most likely be refuted. It could be easily and conclusively demonstrated one way or the other whether Mariah really received an official warning, whether Raf changed her or Eunsoo's session times, etc. It's far riskier to make charges like that if there's a chance they can be refuted, which is why people are inclined to believe them.

So far, we've had Raf deny them, Mariah said her schedule or locker room hadn't been changed. Adam said they weren't true. Until ATS brings actual specific information with eye witnesses, it doesn't matter how specific they are, because right now, they are unconfirmed allegations.

 

[Wyliefan]

I'm not denying it. I'm saying that the specificity of the charges is what made the general public more inclined to believe them. I'm not saying it made them true.

 

[UGG]

I'm not denying it. I'm saying that the specificity of the charges is what made the general public more inclined to believe them. I'm not saying it made them true.

What charges? Was someone charged with something?

 

[Wyliefan]

I didn't mean legal charges, but claims or allegations. Apologies for the lack of clarity.

 

[RoseRed]

What charges? Was someone charged with something?

Charge as in "a statement of complaint or hostile criticism" not legal charges.

 

[misskarne]

I suppose it also brought to light how few skating fans actually understand skating beyond the international competitions.

I feel like the right of way explanation should not have had to be given as many times as it was.

 

[UGG]

I feel like Yu-Na Kim should give a statement. Isn't this her agency? How is she affiliated, exactly? What was done to Mariah is disgusting. If Yu-Na was accused of stabbing and kicking...basically assaulting another skater as well as bullying with no proof, I am pretty sure the accusers would not quietly be able to go away as it seems ATS is...

 

[Tinami Amori]

So far, we've had Raf deny them...

watch out, there is "name police" out today.. they demand we call him by his full name "Rafael" because we don't know him personally ..
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...l-and-eun-soo-lim.105427/page-22#post-5570570

 

[misskarne]

I feel like Yu-Na Kim should give a statement. Isn't this her agency? How is she affiliated, exactly? What was done to Mariah is disgusting. If Yu-Na was accused of stabbing and kicking...basically assaulting another skater as well as bullying with no proof, I am pretty sure the accusers would not quietly be able to go away as it seems ATS is...

She didn't bother to do so when it was her fans sending death threats and abuse to a minor and said minor's disabled sibling...so why would she bother to do so now?

 

[dinakt]

@Tinami Amori
You are being devil's advocate.
Surely you feel the difference between "Raf" (which Ashley and Adam called Rafael, I think, but as a Russian-born I am less comfortable with it so usually spell out the whole name) and "Rafik"- sort of tender-diminutive, saved for people you've known for decades or children... Appropriate for TAT, less so for the rest of us.

 

[nathanfan]

@Tinami Amori
You are being devil's advocate.
Surely you feel the difference between "Raf" (which Ashley and Adam called Rafael, I think, but as a Russian-born I am less comfortable with it so usually spell out the whole name) and "Rafik"- sort of tender-diminutive, saved for people you've known for decades or children... Appropriate for TAT, less so for the rest of us.

Nathan and Mariah also call him Raf. There’s even a hashtag #teamraf.

 

[Tinami Amori]

@Tinami Amori
You are being devil's advocate.
Surely you feel the difference between "Raf" (which Ashley and Adam called Rafael, I think, but as a Russian-born I am less comfortable with it so usually spell out the whole name) and "Rafik"- sort of tender-diminutive, saved for people you've known for decades or children... Appropriate for TAT, less so for the rest of us.

oy! addressing in person, and "on chat boards" is a huge difference.... plus it is done for "positive" (endearment) and not negative (a put down). If that was not the case, many would not call Nadal "Rafa" for "Rafael".

"Rafa" by the way, as you know, is another nick, alt to "Rafik", and has been used here too...

"Rafik" started to appear around 2004 in TAT's and russian coaches interviews and became a term. Then it was used by ESTA, and so on. If i meet him in person, it would be Rafael Vladimirovich and "You"... but on chat boards "Rafik" works fine.... unless! he, or member of his family or a friend/near person, who posts here, says that it is in someway offensive, to Raf and his close ones. that would be a reason to stop.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Term of endearment as you are putting him down as a coach and telling him how to do his job? Sure thing.

 

[screech]

I think you're wrong in your assumption that they know each other programs "by heart". I find it extremely unlikely that skaters have one another's programs memorized to such a degree as to know in which point of the rink another skater would be in any given moment. Even if they train together. That would be an almost ninja level of spatial awarenss.

Oh, you learn everyone's program layouts verrrrrry quickly - by the end of the season you could probably do the programs of every single skater on your practice session, move-for-move. I used to train on a session of about 15 skaters, and we all knew each other's programs, short and long, pretty damn well.

 

[aftershocks]

Asked a Russian-speaking colleague about that. She said that you use that "nickname" for a child or a younger man you personally know. Not a stranger. She said it's not quiet an insult, but reeks of disrespect.

I think coming from TAT, it's likely her own affectionate way of referencing her countryman, no?

TAT is known for all kinds of 'turns of phrase' and eccentric, quixotic commentary during skating broadcasts. And if everyone in the skating community can affectionately (or not so affectionately) call her TAT, I doubt Raf gives it even a second thought that she occasionally calls him 'Rafik' during her commentary. Raf has most assuredly been called names that are much much worse, eh!

TAT in her, ahem, heyday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxJJsROoVE4 Tarasova with Georgi Proskurin 1965 Euros pairs lp
Interesting to look back at how they skated then, hmmm... Historical vids show a bit of the sport's evolution

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

I feel like Yu-Na Kim should give a statement. Isn't this her agency? How is she affiliated, exactly? What was done to Mariah is disgusting. If Yu-Na was accused of stabbing and kicking...basically assaulting another skater as well as bullying with no proof, I am pretty sure the accusers would not quietly be able to go away as it seems ATS is...

One wonders if International Figure Skating magazine, in its journalistic role, has taken any action to contact ATS, Kim Yu-Na, or her mother for statements regarding the ATS accusation.

I believe that at least one poster here has done reporting for the magazine, so one is naturally curious to know if anyone is aware if such attempts at investigation of this situation by the magazine have been done.