starrynight
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,234
Imagine the spin ATS would come up with if Raf actually did fire her
ISU statement on Mariah Bell and Eun soo Lim
- Thread starter arakwafan2006
- Start date
I really can't image many scenarios in which Eunsoo stays at Lakewood. ATS has yet to produce any evidence substantiating their claims that Eunsoo and Mariah had to be placed in different locker rooms, had to have different practice sessions or that Mariah was given a warning in the past. On the contrary, Raf and Adam have gone on the record to deny these claims.
One of the saddest things is that even if the bullying allegations are true, the agency's actions (such as not asking Mariah if she realized she had "clipped" Eunsoo before running to the media) and their past track record makes it hard to believe. While they may have succeeded in "increasing" Eunsoo's profile/popularity with the general population, they have severely damaged her reputation within the skating community.
Also, where would Eunsoo go after leaving Raf? Most top-level South Korean skaters are heavily dependent on sports agencies and train abroad due to issues within the KSU - so moving back to Chi Hyun-jung wouldn't be the best option. I'm pretty sure Tom Z would take her but I think that would be a poor fit.
Maybe Ravi Walia would be willing to train her? I just don't see many elite-level coaches wanting to deal with Eunsoo if she stays affiliated with ATS. Especially if they coach other high level skaters.
P.S. I hope Eunsoo and her family have reached out to IB Sports - they seem to be working pretty well for You Young and Jun.
One of the saddest things is that even if the bullying allegations are true, the agency's actions (such as not asking Mariah if she realized she had "clipped" Eunsoo before running to the media) and their past track record makes it hard to believe. While they may have succeeded in "increasing" Eunsoo's profile/popularity with the general population, they have severely damaged her reputation within the skating community.
Also, where would Eunsoo go after leaving Raf? Most top-level South Korean skaters are heavily dependent on sports agencies and train abroad due to issues within the KSU - so moving back to Chi Hyun-jung wouldn't be the best option. I'm pretty sure Tom Z would take her but I think that would be a poor fit.
Maybe Ravi Walia would be willing to train her? I just don't see many elite-level coaches wanting to deal with Eunsoo if she stays affiliated with ATS. Especially if they coach other high level skaters.
P.S. I hope Eunsoo and her family have reached out to IB Sports - they seem to be working pretty well for You Young and Jun.
Last edited:
Sylvia
TBD
- Messages
- 80,577
@all_empty guessed right yesterday - Haien Lee (bronze at Senior Nationals, 8th at Junior Worlds) must have signed with ATS recently: https://twitter.com/fslove08/status/1112526218602012674
Last edited:
Vagabond
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 25,487
(((((Haien Lee)))))
CaliSteve
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,114
After reading this interview with Raf, I would not be surprised if Eunsoo ended up staying.
https://fs-gossips.com/rafael-aruty...s-no-difference-whether-he-is-a-kid-or-adult/
Vagabond
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 25,487
"Those who don’t take risks, don’t drink champagne."
quartz
scratching at the light
- Messages
- 20,049
I liked the part where he says he has Hanyu's autograph."Those who don’t take risks, don’t drink champagne."
kwanfan1818
RIP D-10
- Messages
- 37,743
I agree, assuming Lim learns something. He took back Chen after Chen followed Zoueva's Siren call. He's big on teaching moments.
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,023
That's still one of the most explicit crisis-averted moments for me. I mean, who knows? Maybe Chen would just be as successful with Zoueva due to his sheer talent and will, but I really do believe Raf has been so instrumental to Chen's development and success, especially during this past year where he's been juggling a full-time academic schedule and skating. It also illustrated that there was something to all the talk about Zoueva specializing in stealing students away from others.
I still want to know how much of this was Lim herself and how much was ATS...
From Raf's interview it sounds like he believes it was 99% ATS and possibly Eunsoo's own mother stirring the pot. It was also interesting that he said both skaters were thrown off not only by the story but also by the event it was announce at. If Raf is right, I hope Eunsoo fires ATS and stays with Raf. If Eunsoo's mother was involved though I'm not optimistic...
From Raf's interview it sounds like he believes it was 99% ATS and possibly Eunsoo's own mother stirring the pot. It was also interesting that he said both skaters were thrown off not only by the story but also by the event it was announce at. If Raf is right, I hope Eunsoo fires ATS and stays with Raf. If Eunsoo's mother was involved though I'm not optimistic...
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,023
Honestly, Lim and/or her family probably don't see any need to fire ATS. I bet back in Korea, most people who paid attention only heard ATS side of the story and are totally on Lim's side.
Coco
Rotating while Russian!
- Messages
- 18,571
What new rink is this?
@Coco It's a 9-sheet facility in Irvine, CA. IIRC it's going to be the new training home of the Anaheim Ducks.
When Raf was talking about allowing others in, that's probably what he was talking about: this rink is not necessarily designed to be your normal public rink where anybody can come in and watch any sheet of ice. Since there's 9 sheets of ice maybe a couple sheets will be open to the public, but the rest will be dedicated to NHL stuff and therefore be locked off from public view by design.
When Raf was talking about allowing others in, that's probably what he was talking about: this rink is not necessarily designed to be your normal public rink where anybody can come in and watch any sheet of ice. Since there's 9 sheets of ice maybe a couple sheets will be open to the public, but the rest will be dedicated to NHL stuff and therefore be locked off from public view by design.
Sylvia
TBD
- Messages
- 80,577
I've started a thread in GSD about the new facility in Irvine, CA: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...arena-has-opened-in-irvine-california.105486/
ETA:
4 sheets of ice, not 9.
Last edited:
CaliSteve
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,114
I love this part of the interview:
"For example, Michal Brezina, when he came to my group, also got under everyone’s feet for the first six months. And now he teaches others the right behavior. This doesn’t always goes smoothly, but the athletes are the least to blame – just no one taught them right behavior on the ice."
I can totally see Michal being a PITA.
"For example, Michal Brezina, when he came to my group, also got under everyone’s feet for the first six months. And now he teaches others the right behavior. This doesn’t always goes smoothly, but the athletes are the least to blame – just no one taught them right behavior on the ice."
I can totally see Michal being a PITA.
CaliSteve
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,114
Yup. Before Eunsoo was Korea's number 2 skater and now her status has been elevated.
AxelAnnie
Like a small boat on the ocean...
- Messages
- 14,463
I love this man. He is a genius, and takes no prisoners!
CaliSteve
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,114
He truly is the gift that keeps on giving. I mean that as a compliment.
Last edited:
No way is Eunsoo staying with Raf.
Also I doubt Nathan would have been this successful if he had stayed with Marina. His jumps had already gotten worse in the few months he was away from Raf.
I don’t think the situations are comparable, as Nathan had been Raf’s student since he was a child - and Eunsoo has been with him for less than a year(?) After what happened - and a major and unwelcome distraction at Worlds, no less - seems unlikely he would still want to continue coaching her.
Also I doubt Nathan would have been this successful if he had stayed with Marina. His jumps had already gotten worse in the few months he was away from Raf.
I don’t think the situations are comparable, as Nathan had been Raf’s student since he was a child - and Eunsoo has been with him for less than a year(?) After what happened - and a major and unwelcome distraction at Worlds, no less - seems unlikely he would still want to continue coaching her.
CaliSteve
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,114
Time will tell.
I have to say, this mess with ATS has affected the way I feel about Eunsoo as a skater. The allegations--and resulting attacks--against Mariah (with absolutely zero proof) have been so damaging and over-the-top despicable, it just really angers and saddens me.
Yes, I do realize that Eunsoo may be an innocent victim of her crazy management's publicity scheme. I don't harbor any ill will against the girl... I simply won't be rooting for her in the future. I'm sorry, but they just went too far.
Figure skating is such a refined and dignified sport.
aftershocks
Banned Member
- Messages
- 17,317
I love this answer by Raf: 
Q: "Can you comment on Elizabet Tursynbaeva’s historical quad salchow?
Raf: – "I don’t know what is there to comment. This girl has a very high level of relative power due to her physique. She is small, light and in the same weight for several years. This is a very important factor. It is clear that Tursynbaeva has it from nature, but if we are talking about the direction in which women’s skating should develop, then personally I don’t want to see it like that. So I think that it would be right to raise the age for girls to compete in seniors. Because only then we can expect that adult and highly professional athletes will appear in our sport, who will be ready to subordinate themselves completely to the regime, proper nutrition to achieve the physical shape that would allow to complicate the program without risk of serious injuries. Only when all these conditions are met, quadruple jumps in women’s skating will be interesting for me."
Q: "Can you comment on Elizabet Tursynbaeva’s historical quad salchow?
Raf: – "I don’t know what is there to comment. This girl has a very high level of relative power due to her physique. She is small, light and in the same weight for several years. This is a very important factor. It is clear that Tursynbaeva has it from nature, but if we are talking about the direction in which women’s skating should develop, then personally I don’t want to see it like that. So I think that it would be right to raise the age for girls to compete in seniors. Because only then we can expect that adult and highly professional athletes will appear in our sport, who will be ready to subordinate themselves completely to the regime, proper nutrition to achieve the physical shape that would allow to complicate the program without risk of serious injuries. Only when all these conditions are met, quadruple jumps in women’s skating will be interesting for me."
hanca
Values her privacy
- Messages
- 12,547
Well, it’s not as if Tursynbaeva was some 15 year old girl. So raising the age eligibility will not make any difference in her case.I love this answer by Raf:
Q: "Can you comment on Elizabet Tursynbaeva’s historical quad salchow?
Raf: – "I don’t know what is there to comment. This girl has a very high level of relative power due to her physique. She is small, light and in the same weight for several years. This is a very important factor. It is clear that Tursynbaeva has it from nature, but if we are talking about the direction in which women’s skating should develop, then personally I don’t want to see it like that. So I think that it would be right to raise the age for girls to compete in seniors. Because only then we can expect that adult and highly professional athletes will appear in our sport, who will be ready to subordinate themselves completely to the regime, proper nutrition to achieve the physical shape that would allow to complicate the program without risk of serious injuries. Only when all these conditions are met, quadruple jumps in women’s skating will be interesting for me."
Sylvia
TBD
- Messages
- 80,577
The translation link also is posted in this GSD thread for those who want to discuss the parts of the Arutunian interview that have nothing to do with Bell/Lim incident: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/vaytsekhovskayas-interview-with-rafael-arutyunyan.105448/
ETA - copying over @jiejie's post from the "All That Skate 2019" show thread (cast of this year's show was tweeted a few days ago: https://twitter.com/AllThatSkate/status/1112917023296614402 ) in case anyone would like to weigh in here (added one reply from that thread):
ETA - copying over @jiejie's post from the "All That Skate 2019" show thread (cast of this year's show was tweeted a few days ago: https://twitter.com/AllThatSkate/status/1112917023296614402 ) in case anyone would like to weigh in here (added one reply from that thread):
Last edited:
Tinami Amori
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 20,156
Yes... and Rafik needs to learn to live with this, find himself small built skaters or work with what he has. Raise the age, and all top coaches who have choices of pupils will only pick "Tursynbaevas" to work with.
aftershocks
Banned Member
- Messages
- 17,317
Yeah, I'm not hung up on or necessarily agreeing with Raf on the 'raising the age eligibility' comment. What I love is the latter part and the part I highlighted. Also, one of the most important lines which I didn't highlight but that spoke to me is this: "... if we are talking about the direction in which women’s skating should develop, then personally I don’t want to see it like that." In addition, despite her age, as Raf notes, Elizabet is very thin and lightweight which makes rotation less difficult. She is also a gifted jumper, which is a talent not everyone possesses. And Raf acknowledges that as well, so he isn't dissing Elizabet's accomplishment.
I'm happy for Elizabet. It is true redemption, but she certainly did not deserve the PCS marks she received. But what else is new(s)? Neither did Zagitova.
Raf is likely still pretty incensed that Mao was unable to compete at the Olympics due to age restrictions the year when she first burst on the senior scene and was winning everything. Raf is just handing out philosophical soundbites based on his long tenure and experience. He's wily and wise, but not everything he says adds up in lockstep. But that's how life is too. Read Chinese Tao wisdom and maybe you'll get the inscrutable contradictions and conundrums, or not. And it matters not. What is, is. Make of it all what you will.
Last edited:
CaliSteve
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,114
PR. Eunsoo was the number 2 skater in Korea. Her status has been elevated after the "drama".
CaliSteve
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,114
There was never going to be any follow up because they have nothing to show.
What they did was take a big dump and walked away. They accomplished what they set out to do.
Perky Shae Lynn
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 2,477
Rafik? Is he a buddy of yours? Or is it just your pet name for him? On another note, a top figure skating coach with a long career and a lot of success has earned the right to have an opionion. I doubt he needs your advice on how to do his job.
I think TAT calls him Rafik - guess it's a nickname.
Eunsoo's name definitely got out there - but aren't other coaches going to be wary of working with her after what happened - and having to deal with her agency? I do not think her staying with Raf is realistic at this point.
Eunsoo's name definitely got out there - but aren't other coaches going to be wary of working with her after what happened - and having to deal with her agency? I do not think her staying with Raf is realistic at this point.
