ISU statement on Mariah Bell and Eun soo Lim

[starrynight]

Imagine the spin ATS would come up with if Raf actually did fire her

 

[okokok777]

I really can't image many scenarios in which Eunsoo stays at Lakewood. ATS has yet to produce any evidence substantiating their claims that Eunsoo and Mariah had to be placed in different locker rooms, had to have different practice sessions or that Mariah was given a warning in the past. On the contrary, Raf and Adam have gone on the record to deny these claims.

One of the saddest things is that even if the bullying allegations are true, the agency's actions (such as not asking Mariah if she realized she had "clipped" Eunsoo before running to the media) and their past track record makes it hard to believe. While they may have succeeded in "increasing" Eunsoo's profile/popularity with the general population, they have severely damaged her reputation within the skating community.

Also, where would Eunsoo go after leaving Raf? Most top-level South Korean skaters are heavily dependent on sports agencies and train abroad due to issues within the KSU - so moving back to Chi Hyun-jung wouldn't be the best option. I'm pretty sure Tom Z would take her but I think that would be a poor fit.

Maybe Ravi Walia would be willing to train her? I just don't see many elite-level coaches wanting to deal with Eunsoo if she stays affiliated with ATS. Especially if they coach other high level skaters.

P.S. I hope Eunsoo and her family have reached out to IB Sports - they seem to be working pretty well for You Young and Jun.

 

[Sylvia]

Slightly off-topic... "NEW BALANCE, a global sports brand, has signed a sponsorship agreement with six 'Kim Yu-na Kids' figure skaters who are active in the world." - article in Korean: http://www.newstown.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=404638

L to R in the top photo: Soyoun Park, Yelim Kim, Eunsoo Lim, Dabin Choi, June Hyoung Lee - does anyone recognize the one on far right with her hand on June Hyoung's shoulder? The other 5 are all ATS clients and listed on their website.

@all_empty guessed right yesterday - Haien Lee (bronze at Senior Nationals, 8th at Junior Worlds) must have signed with ATS recently: https://twitter.com/fslove08/status/1112526218602012674

 

[Vagabond]

(((((Haien Lee)))))

 

[CaliSteve]

I really can't image many scenarios in which Eunsoo stays at Lakewood. ATS has yet to produce any evidence substantiating their claims that Eunsoo and Mariah had to be placed in different locker rooms, had to have different practice sessions or that Mariah was given a warning in the past. On the contrary, Raf and Adam have gone on the record to deny these claims.

One of the saddest things is that even if the bullying allegations are true, the agency's actions (such as not asking Mariah if she realized she had "clipped" Eunsoo before running to the media) and their past track record makes it hard to believe. While they may have succeeded in "increasing" Eunsoo's profile/popularity with the general population, they have severely damaged her reputation within the skating community.

Also, where would Eunsoo go after leaving Raf? Most top-level South Korean skaters are heavily dependent on sports agencies and train abroad due to issues within the KSU - so moving back to Chi Hyun-jung wouldn't be the best option. I'm pretty sure Tom Z would take her but I think that would be a poor fit.

Maybe Ravi Walia would be willing to train her? I just don't see many elite-level coaches wanting to deal with Eunsoo if she stays affiliated with ATS. Especially if they coach other high level skaters.

P.S. I hope Eunsoo and her family have reached out to IB Sports - they seem to be working pretty well for You Young and Jun.

After reading this interview with Raf, I would not be surprised if Eunsoo ended up staying.

https://fs-gossips.com/rafael-aruty...s-no-difference-whether-he-is-a-kid-or-adult/

 

[Vagabond]

https://fs-gossips.com/rafael-aruty...s-no-difference-whether-he-is-a-kid-or-adult/

"Those who don’t take risks, don’t drink champagne."

 

[quartz]

"Those who don’t take risks, don’t drink champagne."

I liked the part where he says he has Hanyu's autograph.

 

[kwanfan1818]

After reading this interview with Raf, I would not be surprised if Eunsoo ended up staying.

https://fs-gossips.com/rafael-aruty...s-no-difference-whether-he-is-a-kid-or-adult/

I agree, assuming Lim learns something. He took back Chen after Chen followed Zoueva's Siren call. He's big on teaching moments.

 

[VGThuy]

I agree, assuming Lim learns something. He took back Chen after Chen followed Zoueva's Siren call. He's big on teaching moments.

That's still one of the most explicit crisis-averted moments for me. I mean, who knows? Maybe Chen would just be as successful with Zoueva due to his sheer talent and will, but I really do believe Raf has been so instrumental to Chen's development and success, especially during this past year where he's been juggling a full-time academic schedule and skating. It also illustrated that there was something to all the talk about Zoueva specializing in stealing students away from others.

 

[Willin]

I still want to know how much of this was Lim herself and how much was ATS...

From Raf's interview it sounds like he believes it was 99% ATS and possibly Eunsoo's own mother stirring the pot. It was also interesting that he said both skaters were thrown off not only by the story but also by the event it was announce at. If Raf is right, I hope Eunsoo fires ATS and stays with Raf. If Eunsoo's mother was involved though I'm not optimistic...

 

[VGThuy]

Honestly, Lim and/or her family probably don't see any need to fire ATS. I bet back in Korea, most people who paid attention only heard ATS side of the story and are totally on Lim's side.

 

[Coco]

What new rink is this?

 

[Willin]

@Coco It's a 9-sheet facility in Irvine, CA. IIRC it's going to be the new training home of the Anaheim Ducks.

When Raf was talking about allowing others in, that's probably what he was talking about: this rink is not necessarily designed to be your normal public rink where anybody can come in and watch any sheet of ice. Since there's 9 sheets of ice maybe a couple sheets will be open to the public, but the rest will be dedicated to NHL stuff and therefore be locked off from public view by design.

 

[Sylvia]

What new rink is this?

I've started a thread in GSD about the new facility in Irvine, CA: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...arena-has-opened-in-irvine-california.105486/

ETA:

@Coco It's a 9-sheet facility in Irvine, CA. IIRC it's going to be the new training home of the Anaheim Ducks.

4 sheets of ice, not 9.

 

[CaliSteve]

I love this part of the interview:

"For example, Michal Brezina, when he came to my group, also got under everyone’s feet for the first six months. And now he teaches others the right behavior. This doesn’t always goes smoothly, but the athletes are the least to blame – just no one taught them right behavior on the ice."

I can totally see Michal being a PITA.

 

[CaliSteve]

Honestly, Lim and/or her family probably don't see any need to fire ATS. I bet back in Korea, most people who paid attention only heard ATS side of the story and are totally on Lim's side.

Yup. Before Eunsoo was Korea's number 2 skater and now her status has been elevated.

 

[AxelAnnie]

After reading this interview with Raf, I would not be surprised if Eunsoo ended up staying.

https://fs-gossips.com/rafael-aruty...s-no-difference-whether-he-is-a-kid-or-adult/

I love this man. He is a genius, and takes no prisoners!

 

[CaliSteve]

I love this man. He is a genius, and takes no prisoners!

He truly is the gift that keeps on giving. I mean that as a compliment.

 

[nathanfan]

No way is Eunsoo staying with Raf.

Also I doubt Nathan would have been this successful if he had stayed with Marina. His jumps had already gotten worse in the few months he was away from Raf.

I don’t think the situations are comparable, as Nathan had been Raf’s student since he was a child - and Eunsoo has been with him for less than a year(?) After what happened - and a major and unwelcome distraction at Worlds, no less - seems unlikely he would still want to continue coaching her.

 

[CaliSteve]

No way is Eunsoo staying with Raf.

Time will tell.

 

[Inessence]

I have to say, this mess with ATS has affected the way I feel about Eunsoo as a skater. The allegations--and resulting attacks--against Mariah (with absolutely zero proof) have been so damaging and over-the-top despicable, it just really angers and saddens me.

Yes, I do realize that Eunsoo may be an innocent victim of her crazy management's publicity scheme. I don't harbor any ill will against the girl... I simply won't be rooting for her in the future. I'm sorry, but they just went too far.

Figure skating is such a refined and dignified sport.

 

[aftershocks]

I love this answer by Raf:

Q: "Can you comment on Elizabet Tursynbaeva’s historical quad salchow?

Raf: – "I don’t know what is there to comment. This girl has a very high level of relative power due to her physique. She is small, light and in the same weight for several years. This is a very important factor. It is clear that Tursynbaeva has it from nature, but if we are talking about the direction in which women’s skating should develop, then personally I don’t want to see it like that. So I think that it would be right to raise the age for girls to compete in seniors. Because only then we can expect that adult and highly professional athletes will appear in our sport, who will be ready to subordinate themselves completely to the regime, proper nutrition to achieve the physical shape that would allow to complicate the program without risk of serious injuries. Only when all these conditions are met, quadruple jumps in women’s skating will be interesting for me."

 

[hanca]

I love this answer by Raf:

Q: "Can you comment on Elizabet Tursynbaeva’s historical quad salchow?

Raf: – "I don’t know what is there to comment. This girl has a very high level of relative power due to her physique. She is small, light and in the same weight for several years. This is a very important factor. It is clear that Tursynbaeva has it from nature, but if we are talking about the direction in which women’s skating should develop, then personally I don’t want to see it like that. So I think that it would be right to raise the age for girls to compete in seniors. Because only then we can expect that adult and highly professional athletes will appear in our sport, who will be ready to subordinate themselves completely to the regime, proper nutrition to achieve the physical shape that would allow to complicate the program without risk of serious injuries. Only when all these conditions are met, quadruple jumps in women’s skating will be interesting for me."

Well, it’s not as if Tursynbaeva was some 15 year old girl. So raising the age eligibility will not make any difference in her case.

 

[Sylvia]

The translation link also is posted in this GSD thread for those who want to discuss the parts of the Arutunian interview that have nothing to do with Bell/Lim incident: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/vaytsekhovskayas-interview-with-rafael-arutyunyan.105448/

ETA - copying over @jiejie's post from the "All That Skate 2019" show thread (cast of this year's show was tweeted a few days ago: https://twitter.com/AllThatSkate/status/1112917023296614402 ) in case anyone would like to weigh in here (added one reply from that thread):

It's more than awkward, it's just a bad move by Nathan. ATS didn't just create drama, they slandered Mariah Bell, essentially Rafael Arutunian as well, and by extension USFSA. Unleashing a horrible Korean-fan war against Mariah including death threats against her and her family. To date, they have yet to produce evidence of their bullying accusation, nor any public apology or chastisement of out-of-control fans. Nathan having Rafael as his coach makes it worse, but it would apply even if he had a different coach. Mariah is a fellow USA team mate and under current circumstances, skating in an ATS show is a slap in her face.

Perhaps this gig was set up by Nathan's camp before Worlds, but at this point he should reconsider his participation. That goes for any other Team USA skater and any ATS show, anywhere. If ATS put on a show in the USA, I would not even consider buying a ticket even if Yuna Kim herself was guest star, not until ATS owns up to what it did as an irresponsible corporation. Which will likely never happen.

I think you are putting too much on Nathan.

The ATS appearance was probably arranged way before Worlds. Pulling out could cause even more damage.

Nathan is also very close with Romain and Mariah so if that was an issue it would have been discussed between the three, as well as Rafael.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Q: "Can you comment on Elizabet Tursynbaeva’s historical quad salchow?
Raf: – "I don’t know what is there to comment. This girl has a very high level of relative power due to her physique. She is small, light and in the same weight for several years. This is a very important factor. It is clear that Tursynbaeva has it from nature.... etc

Yes... and Rafik needs to learn to live with this, find himself small built skaters or work with what he has. Raise the age, and all top coaches who have choices of pupils will only pick "Tursynbaevas" to work with.

 

[aftershocks]

Well, it’s not as if Tursynbaeva was some 15 year old girl. So raising the age eligibility will not make any difference in her case.

Yeah, I'm not hung up on or necessarily agreeing with Raf on the 'raising the age eligibility' comment. What I love is the latter part and the part I highlighted. Also, one of the most important lines which I didn't highlight but that spoke to me is this: "... if we are talking about the direction in which women’s skating should develop, then personally I don’t want to see it like that." In addition, despite her age, as Raf notes, Elizabet is very thin and lightweight which makes rotation less difficult. She is also a gifted jumper, which is a talent not everyone possesses. And Raf acknowledges that as well, so he isn't dissing Elizabet's accomplishment.

I'm happy for Elizabet. It is true redemption, but she certainly did not deserve the PCS marks she received. But what else is new(s)? Neither did Zagitova.

Raf is likely still pretty incensed that Mao was unable to compete at the Olympics due to age restrictions the year when she first burst on the senior scene and was winning everything. Raf is just handing out philosophical soundbites based on his long tenure and experience. He's wily and wise, but not everything he says adds up in lockstep. But that's how life is too. Read Chinese Tao wisdom and maybe you'll get the inscrutable contradictions and conundrums, or not. And it matters not. What is, is. Make of it all what you will.

 

[CaliSteve]

I am still confused why would ATS put that bullying accusation in there without any evidence or explanation... if they truly believe their story, it’s one thing. But if they put it out there just for the sake of a sensation... then it’s super dumb.

PR. Eunsoo was the number 2 skater in Korea. Her status has been elevated after the "drama".

 

[CaliSteve]

It is weird how there's no follow-up, but I guess they don't need to provide anything else. All of the people they bamboozled into believing that story is doing the work for them, even now.

There was never going to be any follow up because they have nothing to show.

What they did was take a big dump and walked away. They accomplished what they set out to do.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Yes... and Rafik needs to learn to live with this, find himself small built skaters or work with what he has. Raise the age, and all top coaches who have choices of pupils will only pick "Tursynbaevas" to work with.

Rafik? Is he a buddy of yours? Or is it just your pet name for him? On another note, a top figure skating coach with a long career and a lot of success has earned the right to have an opionion. I doubt he needs your advice on how to do his job.

 

[nathanfan]

I think TAT calls him Rafik - guess it's a nickname.

Eunsoo's name definitely got out there - but aren't other coaches going to be wary of working with her after what happened - and having to deal with her agency? I do not think her staying with Raf is realistic at this point.