From Russia with Love [#33]: Summer 2019

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Ka3sha

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According to Nastia , she left Buyanova's group on July,3rd after they had a talk and both came to understanding that it would be better to part their ways. She hadn't heard anything about being "expelled" from CSKA from her coach before yesterday.
She had injuries and weight issues (as Buyanova and her team told her) and couldn't train the way her coach wanted to her to train. It was also hard for her to live in Moscow on her own as her family stayed in St Petersburg.

So which coaches are in St.Pete besides Mishin and his team?
Vasiliev still coaching single skaters?
Mishin, Chebotareva, Rukavitsin, Angelina Turenko (her ex-coach), Victoria Dayneko - she coaches at Moskvina's school and is Petr Gumennik's main coach.
 

DobrinFan

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Mishin, Chebotareva, Rukavitsin, Angelina Turenko (her ex-coach), Victoria Dayneko - she coaches at Moskvina's school and is Petr Gumennik's main coach.

Danieko dismissed her ladies last season and only train girls for Moskvina. There is also Pisarenko and Davydenko.

ETA: Also Tautarov (sp?)
 

rfisher

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According to Nastia , she left Buyanova's group on July,3rd after they had a talk and both came to understanding that it would be better to part their ways. She hadn't heard anything about being "expelled" from CSKA from her coach before yesterday.
She had injuries and weight issues (as Buyanova and her team told her) and couldn't train the way her coach wanted to her to train. It was also hard for her to live in Moscow on her own as her family stayed in St Petersburg.


Mishin, Chebotareva, Rukavitsin, Angelina Turenko (her ex-coach), Victoria Dayneko - she coaches at Moskvina's school and is Petr Gumennik's main coach.
Chebotareva FTW :saint:
 

Tinami Amori

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Sofia Samodurova performing/practicing her new SP "Bamboleo"

--
Few lines translations in Gubanova's interview:
re "why":
- We talked, and she (Buianova) said that i am not coping with the training requirements/demands (work load) that is standard for Moscow's skating clubs; that it is hard for me to live alone while parents in St. Pete.

re "is that true about work load and living alone"?
- It is hard, i was a little girl when i moved here. without parents. I don't have enough support. But i still think i am handling the Moscow-pace life fine. Well, not totally of course, but not as bad as the trainer said it.

Q -what problems?
- from injuries, which made training not go as well as planned.
Q -what injuries?
- намины (inflamed calluses, blisters).
Q -problems with extra weight?
- everybody has such problems, nothing to be surprised about.
Q -it was said that your main issue was extra weight, which prevented being able to handle the work load required for your level skating.
- of course, there were problems with my weight. but it was not unmanageable. even as i was, i could still train.
Q - it is true you have not train at all for a while?
- yes, as of July 3, i have not skated.
Q - how could the favorite in the group (senior ladies) be let go?
- the injuries held me back, shifted the training process.
Q -it's hard to believe Buianova would dismiss you just over injuries.
- she wanted constant results and complete stability. when it does not happen, no one can be happy about it.
--
Q -did you break the guidelines (diet related)?
- i tried to stick to them, but not always could do it. during the season i managed.
Q - did coaches control you?
- yes, they did, but not just me, everyone.
Q - did coaches complain/scolded?
- always
Q - is there diff. between Moscow and St. Pete style of training?
-yes, there is. In St. Pete they are more relaxed about things. on the ice training is about the same, but off ice it is morally easier.
-at CSKA they want winners. not saying that in St. Pete they want losers... but at CSKA they expect more from you.

(she plans to compete this season, and her goals are for years ahead).
 
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giselle23

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1,000 calories a day is a fairly extreme weight-loss diet. Most people, if they are patient, can lose weight on 1,500 calories a day. I can't imagine why Maria S. needs to be on such a restrictive diet. She must be trying to achieve a body-weight that is far below her normal weight. It is no wonder that eating disorders are so prevalent in the skating world, with the extreme emphasis on low weight, which has as much to do with aesthetics as it does with skating ability.
 

_Lola_

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That’s so crazy that some people find a way to take issue with that. It seems so innocuous to me. I would hate to be in these skaters’ shoes, being attacked for saying how work is now enjoyable.

Most likely, she has been attacked for saying that she's doing figure skating "for herself". It is an American discourse, not the Russian one. In Russia, where the state pays to athletes, basically, salaries and covers many of their expenses, it sounds completely alien that someone denies that they are doing a job and also state that they have no obligations in front of anyone, but themselves. It's what American skaters say very commonly; it's very familiar to the English-language audience, but not to the Russian audience --> hence, the criticism.

What Zhenia actually learned is how to speak in a way that is expected by English-language audience. She said she turned into vegan to keep her shape and was immediately supported. Perhaps, Sotskova is also on some vegan diet, but she voiced her calories - and posters are in shock. I guess, Sotskova just voiced what everyone else is doing in figure skating. There is no other way to be in shape than diet. And no one knows what her diet is; how healthy it is. Same for Zhenia, who was loosing weight throughout past season quite noticeably.
 

muffinplus

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Most likely, she has been attacked for saying that she's doing figure skating "for herself". It is an American discourse, not the Russian one. In Russia, where the state pays to athletes, basically, salaries and covers many of their expenses, it sounds completely alien that someone denies that they are doing a job and also state that they have no obligations in front of anyone, but themselves. It's what American skaters say very commonly; it's very familiar to the English-language audience, but not to the Russian audience --> hence, the criticism.

What Zhenia actually learned is how to speak in a way that is expected by English-language audience. She said she turned into vegan to keep her shape and was immediately supported. Perhaps, Sotskova is also on some vegan diet, but she voiced her calories - and posters are in shock. I guess, Sotskova just voiced what everyone else is doing in figure skating. There is no other way to be in shape than diet. And no one knows what her diet is; how healthy it is. Same for Zhenia, who was loosing weight throughout past season quite noticeably.

I thought Medvedeva looked healthier this season than last?
 

zebraswan

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What Zhenia actually learned is how to speak in a way that is expected by English-language audience. She said she turned into vegan to keep her shape and was immediately supported. Perhaps, Sotskova is also on some vegan diet, but she voiced her calories - and posters are in shock. I guess, Sotskova just voiced what everyone else is doing in figure skating. There is no other way to be in shape than diet. And no one knows what her diet is; how healthy it is. Same for Zhenia, who was loosing weight throughout past season quite noticeably.

The word vegan does not imply anything about health. It just means you don't consume any animal-derived products (and I don't believe Evgenia was ever 100% vegan, anyway). You could eat chocolate and potato chips all day long and call yourself vegan. The point is that 1000 calories a day is not sustainable for the health of an adult female athlete, especially one Maria's size. For comparison, the Karolyis only allowed their gymnasts 900 calories at times, and they were starving them. Those girls were a lot tinier than Maria, too.

No, we don't know what everyone else is eating, but she put it out there, so people are going to comment. Is she "in shape" because of this diet? I'm not so sure about that. Whatever short term benefits she feels she is getting are not worth it in the long run. Calorie counting is one thing, but you have to have enough fuel to expend energy and not burn yourself out or damage your body.
 

barbarafan

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I thought Medvedeva looked healthier this season than last?
She does but she had gained weight after Olympics as she was injured and not training. When she started back training she switched content to healthy strength building food as opposed to not eating. So now she is lean and strong and can learn new moves.
 

Tinami Amori

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And then there were none... With Kovtun retired Elena Buianova does not have any senior ladies.

Of the prominent skaters she now only coaches Danielian and Voronov, and some youngsters. "insiders/skating crowd's" opinions on Russian chats (posting what i read, not my opinions, because i don't have on yet).

  • Buianova is an official Head Coach at CSKA, and her salary/income is not that much affected by a number of personal students.
  • She stands to make profit from each personal student if they make the National Team (coach benefits from the funding), prize money from medals, and/or show participation.
  • if a skater is not a medal prospect, now or in a near future, she would have to think if it is worth her time and effort, given that she is financially stable, but getting up there in age and has other priorities in life (family, health, grand-children, time for herself, etc.)
  • this past season it's been noted that Buianova spent less time on private and group lessons, and functions more in a capacity of a manager, overseer.
  • she will work directly, one on one, and with full dedication, only with those who are "hell bent on becoming a champion and will work 24/7, doing all that it takes". and if not, then she chooses not to work with them and spend her time elsewhere. (some-one said that Buianova is sort of in a "Mozer-mode", evaluating her life, and resetting priorities for the future)... certainly her right..

  • the situation with Gubanova is more than just "Gubanova's physical condition and will to train", if that was all she could have lessen her own involvement, and pass her over to another coach in the club, without publicly expelling Gubanova from the CSKA Club, and publicly announcing it.
  • Expelling and publicly announcing this is pretty much a Blacklist Ticket on Gubanova's career (russian term is "wolf's ticket", or at least may cause Gubanova certain degree of difficulties finding another coach and making the National Team.
  • Such action is caused by a much more serious conflict between the two ladies, a conflict that is outside of "personal".
  • few issues have been brought up (which other people were aware of): Buianova not pushing hard for Gubanova's interests with the Federation. This past season Buianova did not push to secure her assignments she could have had.
  • Gubanova felt that in the SP in the Russian Cup Final she should have been in First place, ahead of Tuk and Med. Gubanova's tech score was 3-4 points higher than Tuk/Med, and she was intentionally held back with component scores, because this event was not held for what it was supposed to be (B-level skaters' opportunity) but a "circus for Tuk/Med showdown". Instead of standing up to Feds and Tarasova, whom Buianova are friends with, Buianova decided not to interfere and basically threw Gubanova under a bus. Had Gubanova received her proper placement in SP, it might have affected her mood and spirit going into FS, but in this lay out of things, by FS the "wind was knocked out of her" as she knew she can not win, no matter how she skated.
  • Learning that this season she had no GP assignments while Sotskova and Konstantinova (Tarasova's protege) took the last two, Gubanova again felt thrown under a bus.
  • people say that there was a serious confrontation on a number of issues. Also, Gubanova gave an interview (probably without coordinating with Buianova) to a video-blogger with a very questionable reputation, and in that interview spoke of issues that might have been "hot points" between her and Buianova.

.. on another note. In Gubanova's interview (above) where she stays how she came to Moscow and lives alone and it is hard, that is not quite correct info.
  • Gubanova did come to Moscow alone, but her mother came just few months later with her younger daughter, who is now training Davydov's group, and also a member of CSKA Club
  • Ekaterina Gubanova (she skated last in a competition in Dec. 2018).
this video is without music - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YXA1jcoaDI
same routine with music - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZMPywKWV-M
---

I would love to read what people think about Gub/Bui situation, or if there is any other info.

Can't believe it, CSKA, one of the oldest sports clubs in then USSR and now Russia, no longer has a valid FS Ladies programme, and the "icon" of soviet figure skating, Vodorezova, practically dissolved it in 1 season.... i hate past history of my memories getting destroyed. CSKA was always a pillar of USSR/Russian sports..
 
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Bigbird

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And then there were none... With Kovtun retired Elena Buianova does not have any senior ladies.

Of the prominent skaters she now only coaches Danielian and Voronov, and some youngsters. "insiders/skating crowd's" opinions on Russian chats (posting what i read, not my opinions, because i don't have on yet).

  • Buianova is an official Head Coach at CSKA, and her salary/income is not that much affected by a number of personal students.
  • She stands to make profit from each personal student if they make the National Team (coach benefits from the funding), prize money from medals, and/or show participation.
  • if a skater is not a medal prospect, now or in a near future, she would have to think if it is worth her time and effort, given that she is financially stable, but getting up there in age and has other priorities in life (family, health, grand-children, time for herself, etc.)
  • this past season it's been noted that Buianova spent less time on private and group lessons, and functions more in a capacity of a manager, overseer.
  • she will work directly, one on one, and with full dedication, only with those who are "hell bent on becoming a champion and will work 24/7, doing all that it takes". and if not, then she chooses not to work with them and spend her time elsewhere. (some-one said that Buianova is sort of in a "Mozer-mode", evaluating her life, and resetting priorities for the future)... certainly her right..

  • the situation with Gubanova is more than just "Gubanova's physical condition and will to train", if that was all she could have lessen her own involvement, and pass her over to another coach in the club, without publicly expelling Gubanova from the CSKA Club, and publicly announcing it.
  • Expelling and publicly announcing this is pretty much a Blacklist Ticket on Gubanova's career (russian term is "wolf's ticket", or at least may cause Gubanova certain degree of difficulties finding another coach and making the National Team.
  • Such action is caused by a much more serious conflict between the two ladies, a conflict that is outside of "personal".
  • few issues have been brought up (which other people were aware of): Buianova not pushing hard for Gubanova's interests with the Federation. This past season Buianova did not push to secure her assignments she could have had.
  • Gubanova felt that in the SP in the Russian Cup Final she should have been in First place, ahead of Tuk and Med. Gubanova's tech score was 3-4 points higher than Tuk/Med, and she was intentionally held back with component scores, because this event was not held for what it was supposed to be (B-level skaters' opportunity) but a "circus for Tuk/Med showdown". Instead of standing up to Feds and Tarasova, whom Buianova are friends with, Buianova decided not to interfere and basically threw Gubanova under a bus. Had Gubanova received her proper placement in SP, it might have affected her mood and spirit going into FS, but in this lay out of things, by FS the "wind was knocked out of her" as she knew she can not win, no matter how she skated.
  • Learning that this season she had no GP assignments while Sotskova and Konstantinova (Tarasova's protege) took the last two, Gubanova again felt thrown under a bus.
  • people say that there was a serious confrontation on a number of issues. Also, Gubanova gave an interview (probably without coordinating with Buianova) to a video-blogger with a very questionable reputation, and in that interview spoke of issues that might have been "hot points" between her and Buianova.

.. on another note. In Gubanova's interview (above) where she stays how she came to Moscow and lives alone and it is hard, that is not quite correct info.
  • Gubanova did come to Moscow alone, but her mother came just few months later with her younger daughter, who is now training Davydov's group, and also a member of CSKA Club
  • Ekaterina Gubanova (she skated last in a competition in Dec. 2018).
this video is without music - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YXA1jcoaDI
same routine with music - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZMPywKWV-M
---

I would love to read what people think about Gub/Bui situation, or if there is any other info.

Can't believe it, CSKA, one of the oldest sports clubs in then USSR and now Russia, no longer has a valid FS Ladies programme, and the "icon" of soviet figure skating, Vodorezova, practically dissolved it in 1 season.... i hate past history of my memories getting destroyed. CSKA was always a pillar of USSR/Russian sports..

Gubanova apparently is not a grovelling sycophant, catering to every whim and fantastical request of Buyanova. She thinks independently, she almost seems practically detached even indifferent in the interview, I think I might be in love. No matter what happens I wish her every success in the future.
 

Mad for Skating

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I’m not going to write a long article about what’s the best way to manage weight, but I can tell you that I’m 16, 160 cm, about 47kg, not particularly active, and consume at least 1,500 calories a day. My weight has stayed consistently between 46 and 47kg for months. So either there’s something wrong with these girls’ metabolisms, or their coaches are full of BS.

Anastasia Gubanova was expelled from CSKA and Buyanova’s group after the camp. She has already returned to St Petersburg.

Not sure what all occurred between her and Buyanova, but I wish her all the best. She is a beautiful skater with great musicality.

I know you're a provocateur

Lol, the last time I heard the word “provocateur”, it was in reference to lingerie. I’m pretty sure that’s not what you meant.

Spotted in Simsbury, CT: Nikolas Morozov and his skaters

Are there any photos?
 

starrynight

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I thought Medvedeva said in that interview she is eating a plant based diet because, in part, she also wants to do her bit for the environment? It’s very popular at the moment to make this choice and given the vegan choices and recipes available everywhere these days it’s hardly an act of deprivation.
 

_Lola_

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119
No, we don't know what everyone else is eating, but she put it out there, so people are going to comment. Is she "in shape" because of this diet? I'm not so sure about that. Whatever short term benefits she feels she is getting are not worth it in the long run. Calorie counting is one thing, but you have to have enough fuel to expend energy and not burn yourself out or damage your body.

It is possible to receive enough proteins and other needed elements and not to consume much calories nowadays. Low-calories diet would be mostly vegetarian, anyway, whether someone calls herself vegan/vegetarian or not. I'm just really curious what the diets of Osmond and Daleman are. I have only heard about Johnny Weir's diet who had 1-tomato dinners - that's of cause shocking. I guess not many skaters would talk about their diets honestly because of the reaction, and they know what the reaction would be. I wonder what Megan Duhamel would say about Julianne Seguin's diet and her exit from skating. Megan is a well known advocate for healthy eating; she had just started working with/consulting Julianne Seguin right before their split with Bilodeau, as I remember from Megan's interview.

As for Zhenia, she gained weight - that's normal for 19 y.o. At the beginning of last season she was out of shape. By the end of the season she got back in shape, I'd say, relatively quickly. Maybe with the help of her new vegan/vegetarian diet. Russian boards rumoured though that she's got back to her old methods not being able to keep her shape for the first half of the season. Anyway, at this age her weight is probably more or less stable comparing to the time period when she was actively growing, so it would be easy to have it under control.
 
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Japanfan

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I eat 1000 calories a day and live a normal (non-athletic) life. I am shorter than Sotskova, but 1000 calories seem normal to me for someone in her profession.

By 'her profession', you mean FS? Did I get that wrong? If not, how can you say that a teenage athlete's (I think she is a teen?) caloric requirements as your caloric requirements as a mature, non-athletic woman?

Bella Karoly may have restricted his gymnasts to 900 calories today, but he basically starved them - tried to teach them that eating was a personal failing (wrote Joan Ryan in "The Second Mark"). Ryan wrote that at one Olympics, his starving gymnasts had food smuggled in to their quarters.

I would think that 1500 a calories a day is more the norm for female skaters, and it certainly wouldn't surprise me if some ate up to 2000. They burn off a whole lot of energy at the rink.

It is possible to receive enough proteins and other needed elements and not to consume much calories nowadays. Low-calories diet would be mostly vegetarian, anyway, whether someone calls herself vegan/vegetarian or not. I'm just really curious what the diets of Osmond and Daleman are. I have only heard about Johnny Weir's diet who had 1-tomato dinners - that's of cause shocking. I guess not many skaters would talk about their diets honestly because of the reaction, and they know what the reaction would be.

Protein powder diets worked just great for Lipniskaya and that other Russian girl who ended up in an Israeli hospital to be treated for EDs.

I wonder what Megan Duhamel would say about Julianne Seguin's diet and her exit from skating. Megan is a well known advocate for healthy eating; she had just started working with/consulting Julianne Seguin right before their split with Bilodeau, as I remember from Megan's interview.

I don't know anything about Julianne's diet, but have read Megan's blog. She appears to eat really well, and love her food - enjoys baking and sharing what she makes around the rink. I'd wager that Megan consumes a healthy number of calories at day, probably at least 1500, given that she's very tiny. IIRC, she's posted about EDs in the sport.
 
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Ka3sha

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Loboda/Drozd and Egor Murashov are entered for NRW Summer Trophy early August.

So is Elena Sokolova as coach. Is this retired-by-fed-Sokolova or someone else? If so, who and where is she coaching?
Konkina/Drozd :)


No, this Elena Sokolova lives and works in St Petersburg. She is pretty much the only ice dance coach there.
If you remember a team with broken lace and cool FD from Nats (Bibikhina/Zvorykin) - they are her team. She always tries to invite retired skaters and choreographers for master classes and tries to do at least something to develop ice dance in St Petersburg.

She coached Pavel Drozd, Kirill Alyoshin, Eva Kutz, Gleb Smolkin before they moved to Moscow.
 

Tinami Amori

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Gubanova apparently is not a grovelling sycophant, catering to every whim and fantastical request of Buyanova. She thinks independently, she almost seems practically detached even indifferent in the interview...

Bella Karoly may have restricted his gymnasts to 900 calories today, but he basically starved them - tried to teach them that eating was a personal failing (wrote Joan Ryan in "The Second Mark").
Both of you presented extremes from coaches, and those do happen, but not all coachs' demands, which cause conflicts with pupils, are extremes, just saying. I don't think it is right to look at each and every situation between coach and athlete with automatic bias "student is a victim and coach is an offender".

Just an FYI. Elena Vaytsekhovskaya, a sports writer, now with R-sport, formerly with SE, whose articles often get translated and posted here on FSU, is defending Buyanova, and questioning Gubanova's approach to training. It is true that EV is on very good terms and supportive of Buianova (while old-time enemy with Tutberidze) and what Vaytsekhovskaya has to say may be influenced by personal bias, but this is what she has to say (from the stand point of a former olympic platform diving winner in 1976):

English translation from discussion in the blog (original comments in Russian will be below):

EV: After i won my first Russian championship with a most difficult jump content, i spent summer with grandmother, gained 5 kg (10 lbs), and my coach said to my parents - if she does not lose them by the end of the month, we are finished.

Such approach (from the coach about extra weight) is not a punishment.
It's to avoid further pointless work. (such work with an overweight athlete would be) Absolutely pointless. Waist of time. It is too bad that this talented girl does not understand it.

EV: I remember clearly and exactly, about my condition - 1-2kg extra weight - is prohibitive. For real. Feeling uncomfortable - is one thing, increased risk of injury is another.

EV: (about Buyanova and Gubanova's relationship). It's not about (Buyanova's) high rank as coach (who can pick and chose), it's about a fact that any coach is not there to be a skater's nanny. Especially when a skater is old than 10...

EV: Perhaps a person (a coach) just does not feel right spending time on what/who does not give her satisfaction - she is the one to say so.

EV: I personally don't care about "wants and don't wants" - i base my logic on how each factor affects "results" or "lack of results".

EV: (what's important) is for an athlete to work her/his butt off during training. When a person works that hard, the trainer always wants to find ways to give such athlete maximum help with any problems. I have no idea if Gubanova worked her butt off or not. But i am less inclined to believe that a coach (Buianova) is acting like an idiot, in this situation.
---

(russian phrases from blog)
- Помню, как после того, как я выиграла первый чемпионат СССР (самая сложная программа в мире, первый раз за 400 баллов в мире - и прочие ахи и охи), потом отпуск у бабушки и +5, мой тренер сказала моим родителям: если через месяц вес не вернется в норму, мы больше не работаем.
Поймите простую вещь: это - не наказание. Это - бессмысленность работы. Абсолютная. Пустая трата времени. И очень жаль, что талантливая девочка этого не понимает.

- вот про себя точно знаю, сколько, и точно знаю, что +1-2кг - уже мешают. Реально)
Мешают - это одно. Травмозависимо - это другое

- Дело не в маститости, а в том, что тренер - не нянька. Тем более когда спортсмену не 10 лет..

- (обязанности Буяновой к ученикам и отказ работать с Губановой) Возможно, человек просто не считает правильным тратить время на то, что не приносит удовольствия - это лучше у нее спросить.

- Я вообще не руководствуюсь в работе понятием "хочется" - стараюсь исходить из того, влияет тот или иной фактор на результат, или нет.

- То, что спортсмен работал, как подорванный, на тренировках. Когда человек так работает, тренер всегда старается максимально помочь решить любые проблемы. Я не говорю, что не работала Губанова - просто не знаю. Но еще меньше я верю в идиотизм тренера в данной ситуации.
 

Bigbird

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Excuses excuses, nothing prohibits her (Buyanova) from being tactful and gracious. Her actions can only lead to the child being blacklisted. They could have simply parted ways with dignity. It is obvious to all that Nastia is no longer a pre-pubescent and that she had her struggles. Buyanova is a good coach but she's no genius so there is no need for any great fuss.
 

Tinami Amori

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20,156
Alina Zagitova helps with homeless kitten adoption (now adopted).

She said she is interested in getting involved with animal rescue and opening a shelter.
"Since i was little, i dreamed of starting a pet shelter. In Izhevks there were many homeless cats and dogs. I was always sad for them. In Moscow i see less of homeless dogs and cats, but when i see one, i ran to a store and buy them food. I can't stand leaving them hungry, without love and attention. Because homeless ones need love and care, same as home pets".

Masaru Zagitova - bottle-cap challenge (started by Mamun Sisters).

Anna Shcherbakova - adopted a new kitten - called it "Mafia" because it is sneaky.

Sasha Trusova has been seen with a new dog, and Tina (no comments if this is her 2nd dog).

Trusova and Shcherbakova practicing some "show moves".

Serafima Sakhanovich gets philosophical :lol:
Talking to her dog: "I see all you want to say; your eyes speak more honestly than humans".
"All human problems are in human's head".

Liza Tuktamysheva with her "baby"

Dmitry Aliev with "baby"
 
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