2020 Grand Prix series thread

[kwanfan1818]

If the events are if the host can swing it, and there are no SB's or WS points awarded, and the judging and technical panels don't have to meet ISU credential levels for GP's, and neither the skaters nor the panels are subject to geographical distribution requirements, and it's by invite only without any other requirements besides who can get there, and there won't be a GP final, then, structurally, these look like nothing more than a series of cheesefests, not even at the senior B level. The only differences seem to be who is forking up the prize money and who is arranging the TV coverage.

 

[Dobre]

The plane-- maybe. Transportation? If it's Uber or taxi in North America then masks are required, period. I guarantee there are more people on the ice in their home rink than they will be around in every aspect of getting from A to B except on the plane, and even then it's not as if all flights are packed. I can go to NYC or Chicago almost any day for the next few months for $70 round trip on a major airline (from a major airport). If the seats were consistently full, they wouldn't be going for those prices. I've seen friends traveling on almost empty flights. I know flight attendants that have had flights with 1 or 2 people on the whole plane.

I hope you are correct because my cousin just flew across the country to help find a way to care for a family member who has had a serious surgery & needs follow-up care. (Plus, I assume said cousin will also need to fly back across the country to return home & to her immediate family). Having said this, the 1500 TSA workers who have gotten sick are probably not too confident that planes & airports & passengers & travel are all that safe.

 

[Bellanca]

Two camps here: those who desire any kind of skating (bring on the cheesefests), and those who would prefer a more traditional competitive season (where results count for something). It appears to be, for the moment, cheesefests.

 

[MacMadame]

Having said this, the 1500 TSA workers who have gotten sick are probably not too confident that planes & airports & passengers & travel are all that safe.

Yeah and also a friend of mine traveled recently and at least one of her stops was very crowded so I think it just depends when it comes to traveling.

Anyway, you can't evaluate risks without considering the benefits. And those are going to vary by person.

 

[Sally1214]

I will believe this whole thing is even going to happen when (if) I am actually watching it (probably via live streaming). There are just so many "what ifs" involved. I hope something happens for my own selfish reasons of wanting to see skating but only if it is safe for everyone involved. I'm thinking there may well be a lot of skaters who, after assessing the situation, will say, 'No, I'll just skip the GP season this year." We will have to wait & see .... we could all be in a massive 2nd wave this fall. I sure hope not, but epidemiologists everywhere seem to be quite sure it's going to happen.

 

[cholla]

Twelve (or twenty) skaters, a judging panel of twelve, a referee, a camera operator, and ten or so coaches, and that's getting close fifty people right there.

50 people is Riquiqui Prix or Miniature Prix Petit Prix would at least involve some people from media, especially photographers, a TV crew involves several techs, not only a camera operator. Add the compulsory presence of a medical team, some ISU officials, and you reach 100 easily. It is still a Petit Prix compared to what we're used to (several TVs, their commentators and techs, a good 50 to 100 regular media folks, choreographers, assistant-coaches, physiotherapists, etc) But I guess that even a Riquiqui Prix would be better than nothing.

I understand that some of you here are worried for the safety of participants, whether they are skaters or coaches or ISU staff, but all these people NEED to work. They need to earn a living. Here on the old continent, for the exception of some very few areas that are again under lockdown, we have been at work for the past 2 months and a half or longer. Things aren't back to normal as precautions have to be taken, masks are mandatory in a lot of places indoors and outdoors, we consume twice more sanitizing gel than wine (in France that speaks volume ) but life has resumed and is going its way. The number of cases has increased dangerously in some places but this is all because of fracking covidiots/anti-maskers/me-first-I don't give a sh*t and those can easily be kept away from a Grand or Petit (or Moyen) Prix. I attended a skating gala 1 week ago and everything went very well. The audience complied with every restrictions. I attended the rehearsals (and some practices for the skaters who were at camp on location for the summer) and it was the same : every one was very careful and compliant. That's why I think there actually IS a way to organize Petit Prix without necessarily killing anyone. That includes me as I'm media but also 61, overweight because of anti-epilepsy medication and immunocompromised because of Biermer anemia. I think we're on for a looooooong time wearing a mask and washing our hands 1 gazillion times a day. Petit Prix with no international travel involved seem rather safe to me. I would probably not travel abroad right now or in the 2 or 3 forthcoming months. But if I don't have to sit in a packed aircraft, let's go.

 

[misskarne]

I understand that some of you here are worried for the safety of participants, whether they are skaters or coaches or ISU staff, but all these people NEED to work. They need to earn a living.

The judges and officials don't earn a living judging and officiating skating. They don't earn any money from judging and officiating. They are volunteers, many with day jobs, and many of them are in that vulnerable age bracket.

 

[Carolla5501]

I expect Nevada is out of the picture.

I actually think it could go to a rink with basically no or little spectator viewing but with good support for the TV people. The "side show" act can comment from their homes. I think ideally they would probably want a multi-rink situation so they can 'social distance' more during practice.

Wonder if judges could be remote? That actually might be interesting because it would reduce the "discussion" factor and ability of some of the elite coaches to 'politic" for their skaters

I think you want the skaters in the "competition" environment but does that mean you have to have live judges sitting there? Hmm....

 

[flyingsit]

What about the security lines and inside the airport though? That's my hesitation in flying.

Not that I plan to attend any skating events this year even if they do have spectators.

I flew out of O’Hare on Sunday and there was exactly one other person in the security line when I got there.

 

[Miezekatze]

50 people is Riquiqui Prix or Miniature Prix Petit Prix would at least involve some people from media, especially photographers, a TV crew involves several techs, not only a camera operator. Add the compulsory presence of a medical team, some ISU officials, and you reach 100 easily. It is still a Petit Prix compared to what we're used to (several TVs, their commentators and techs, a good 50 to 100 regular media folks, choreographers, assistant-coaches, physiotherapists, etc) But I guess that even a Riquiqui Prix would be better than nothing.

I understand that some of you here are worried for the safety of participants, whether they are skaters or coaches or ISU staff, but all these people NEED to work. They need to earn a living. Here on the old continent, for the exception of some very few areas that are again under lockdown, we have been at work for the past 2 months and a half or longer. Things aren't back to normal as precautions have to be taken, masks are mandatory in a lot of places indoors and outdoors, we consume twice more sanitizing gel than wine (in France that speaks volume ) but life has resumed and is going its way. The number of cases has increased dangerously in some places but this is all because of fracking covidiots/anti-maskers/me-first-I don't give a sh*t and those can easily be kept away from a Grand or Petit (or Moyen) Prix. I attended a skating gala 1 week ago and everything went very well. The audience complied with every restrictions. I attended the rehearsals (and some practices for the skaters who were at camp on location for the summer) and it was the same : every one was very careful and compliant. That's why I think there actually IS a way to organize Petit Prix without necessarily killing anyone. That includes me as I'm media but also 61, overweight because of anti-epilepsy medication and immunocompromised because of Biermer anemia. I think we're on for a looooooong time wearing a mask and washing our hands 1 gazillion times a day. Petit Prix with no international travel involved seem rather safe to me. I would probably not travel abroad right now or in the 2 or 3 forthcoming months. But if I don't have to sit in a packed aircraft, let's go.

I think the anti-maskers are no risk for showing up at such events anyway, cause they refuse to go anywhere where they have to wear a mask or leave their contact data

I agree with you and I see the risk for for example elder coaches of course, but I don't think they are in any other position than for example at-risk people who work in a supermarket or who are teachers. All those people also have to take the decision about how and if to return to their workplace (and many do return). I guess at-risk coaches could wear FFP2 masks to protect themselves or maybe only send a younger assistant to competitions while only coaching at home.

 

[cholla]

The judges and officials don't earn a living judging and officiating skating. They don't earn any money from judging and officiating. They are volunteers, many with day jobs,

Don't you think I know that? Where in my post are judges and officials mentionned? I wrote staff. I.S.U has staff. Communications manager, coordinators, assistants, marketing people... Most of them work full time + the ones who work full time or part time at the ISU headquarters in Lausanne + people who are punctually remunerated for their services, like sport directors, events coordinators. Selina Vanier, Chloé McGill, Andres Duran, Christelle Garcia, and many others people we work with at competitions, are ISU staff. Not all of ISU people are volunteers, a lot of them are paid employees. As everyone of us, they do need their job/the money.

and many of them are in that vulnerable age bracket.

With the "Petit Prix" system imagined by the ISU, judges won't have to travel outside of their countries. And I think the majority of them isn't past 65. Although my scale is constantly changing as I grow older, I'd say that most of them are now younger than me and I'm about to turn 61, so not yet in the vulnerable age bracket per se.

 

[kirkbiggestfan]

If Nevada is unlikely, what are the options?
Lake Placid, Colorado, some quiet rink in Maine or Vermont?
If that's the only competition in the near future, I could see skaters drive to the middle of the country to avoid flying. Wichita, Kansas for example.
Given the very short prep time, I expect the usual venues to be considered.

 

[Carolla5501]

I would not be surprised it's a training center like Canton, Delaware etc where you have two rinks are are close to the TV support staff.

 

[Debbie S]

I would not be surprised it's a training center like Canton, Delaware etc where you have two rinks are are close to the TV support staff.

The rink in Salt Lake City where they had the Challenger event might also be an option. Altitude could be an issue but not as bad as CO. Or the Ion rink in No VA where the WISA dance teams are now training. Except that the DC area has a fairly high case count. Not sure if VA has any quarantine restrictions.

There's really no reason to go to Vegas. And I imagine the Orleans people wouldn't want an event w/o spectators anyway. I think the recent World Team Tennis finals were originally supposed to be there and got moved to the Greenbriar in WV.

 

[MsZem]

We were joking earlier about cardboard cutouts (crying or not) and Poohs raining from the heavens, but it might be nice for fans to be able to send signs that would be hung in the venue to support the skaters. And I hope competitors will be able to watch in the stands, so there would at least be a little bit of an audience.

 

[Colonel Green]

Two camps here: those who desire any kind of skating (bring on the cheesefests), and those who would prefer a more traditional competitive season (where results count for something). It appears to be, for the moment, cheesefests.

Since “a more traditional competitive season” is impossible, it’s a choice between some competitions and none at all.

 

[Vagabond]

If Nevada is unlikely, what are the options?
Lake Placid, Colorado, some quiet rink in Maine or Vermont?
If that's the only competition in the near future, I could see skaters drive to the middle of the country to avoid flying. Wichita, Kansas for example.
Given the very short prep time, I expect the usual venues to be considered.

Map of restriction levels by state
Map of infection levels by state FIXED

I couldn't find a comparable map for ice skating rinks, but I did find one for ice hockey rinks.

Since Wyoming is probably out of the question, USFS might do well to look to Minnesota.

 

[MacMadame]

I don't see how these GP events are going to be cheesefests. They are going to use the same rules as normal in terms of program content and judging. It's just that they will be more like Summer club comps than internationals. Summer club comps are not cheesefests.

 

[MsZem]

Map of restriction levels by state
Map of infection rates by state

I couldn't find a comparable map for ice skating rinks, but I did find one for ice hockey rinks.

Since Wyoming is probably out of the question, USFS might do well to look to Minnesota.

Here's the infection rates map with the URL sorted out:

COVID Data Tracker

CDC’s home for COVID-19 data. Visualizations, graphs, and data in one easy-to-use website.

bit.ly

Skate America in Montana would be delightful. Though perhaps somewhat cold.

 

[Vagabond]

Thanks for noticing the URL problem, @MsZem!

Early promo pic for Petit Prix Montana

 

[Bellanca]

Since “a more traditional competitive season” is impossible, it’s a choice between some competitions and none at all.

Which is basically what I said once we remove the hairsplitting. I choose "some competitions" (your words), e.g., "a more traditional competitive season" (my words) as opposed to "none at all." (your words).

Cheesefests, on the other hand…
TPTB, need to seriously consider making a (mini) season count for something.

 

[A.H.Black]

The rink in Salt Lake City where they had the Challenger event might also be an option. Altitude could be an issue but not as bad as CO. Or the Ion rink in No VA where the WISA dance teams are now training. Except that the DC area has a fairly high case count. Not sure if VA has any quarantine restrictions.

There's really no reason to go to Vegas. And I imagine the Orleans people wouldn't want an event w/o spectators anyway. I think the recent World Team Tennis finals were originally supposed to be there and got moved to the Greenbriar in WV.

Salt Lake could/would easily host the event. Know that Salt Lake is still in the Utah "orange" phase of restrictions. One of the relevant guidelines reads - Event size can exceed 20 individuals if organizational oversight can be provided that ensures guidelines are followed - I can almost guarantee there would not be an audience allowed in Salt Lake City.

I see a lot of speculation about places on this thread. I remember that in order to have an event there must be a local organizing group who would be willing to take on the task. My personal thought is - Skate America will still take place in Las Vegas without an audience.

 

[MacMadame]

My personal thought is - Skate America will still take place in Las Vegas without an audience.

I haven't seen anything to indicate anything else so I think you are correct.

 

[Colonel Green]

Orser on TCC plans. He says (as one would guess) that he will recommend anyone at the TCC compete at SCI, but he also thinks that the JSF may need Hanyu at NHK. How/when the overseas skaters return to the TCC is completely up in the air.

 

[b-man]

I wouldn't assume SA will be in Nevada.

I'm not.

 

[GarrAargHrumph]

I expect Nevada is out of the picture.

I actually think it could go to a rink with basically no or little spectator viewing but with good support for the TV people. The "side show" act can comment from their homes. I think ideally they would probably want a multi-rink situation so they can 'social distance' more during practice.

Wonder if judges could be remote? That actually might be interesting because it would reduce the "discussion" factor and ability of some of the elite coaches to 'politic" for their skaters

I think you want the skaters in the "competition" environment but does that mean you have to have live judges sitting there? Hmm....

If Nevada is unlikely, what are the options?
Lake Placid, Colorado, some quiet rink in Maine or Vermont?
If that's the only competition in the near future, I could see skaters drive to the middle of the country to avoid flying. Wichita, Kansas for example.
Given the very short prep time, I expect the usual venues to be considered.

If they (USFS and Skate Canada) want rinks with network-level TV facilities that are already in place, with practice facilities nearby, they should look at NHL rinks. Most have practice facilities nearby or attached, and I believe there's a gap in the NHL from October through the beginning of December. And with many of the rinks also being places where concerts and etc. are held, there should be availability due to cancellations.

But yes, I'd think "the usual venues" will be the most likely for Skate America, as USFS already has relationships there. So Lake Placid, or Colorado; or a place they recently had nationals but which isn't too expensive, like Greensboro.

 

[meggonzo]

I assume USFS has a contract with the Orleans that they may not be able to break. Especially if they hold the same event somewhere else (instead of canceling).

 

[Colonel Green]

I assume USFS has a contract with the Orleans that they may not be able to break. Especially if they hold the same event somewhere else (instead of canceling).

The contract would have a force majeure clause that would be easily triggered in a case like this.

 

[Sylvia]

Tickets are currently being sold for 2 events in September at the Orleans Arena, FWIW: https://www.orleansarena.com/events

 

[Dobre]

Maybe this is the wrong thread? I remember someone posting that the attitude in Las Vegas is that tourists come in & leave before contracting symptoms. I'd guess there is some of that pov, but Nevada does seem to be keeping stats on tourists that develop covid after leaving the state. I don't have a subscription to the Las Vegas Review-Journal, but here is an article that came out today:

New data shows jump in COVID cases for visitors to Nevada

New data shows jump in COVID cases for visitors to Nevada

The state reports that as of July 25, at least 347 visitors had tested positive for the coronavirus either while in the state or soon after returning home.

tinyurl.com

The last report I read, maybe a month ago, said that @100 tourists had tested positive after leaving the state. The number is now 347.

Vegas is very dependent on their tourist industry. I don't think the host city will cancel anything if they can help it. Right now, Nevada has the highest unemployment rate in the country.