Who are some skaters who tended to excel much more at the Grand Prix final than at Olympics/Worlds

trainingdogs82

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With the Grand Prix final on the horizon who are some skaters who seemed to peak at the Grand Prix final but could not keep up the momentum for Olympics or Worlds.

Yuzura Hanyu is one for sure. His winning performances, particularly the long program, at the 2013-2014 season Grand Prix final were much better than his Olympic and world winning ones that year. He won it 4 years consecutively from 2014-2017, and was 2nd in both 2013 and 2020. He never duplicated that same dominance at worlds, or even really at the Olympics despite winning back to back Olympic Golds. In the 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 seasons he easily beat Javier Fernandez both times, only to lose to him at worlds both seasons. In the 2016 edition setting WR scores, and falling so far below that performance at worlds.

Irina Slutskaya I think is one. She won the Grand Prix final in the 99-2000, 2000-2001, 2001-2002, and 2004-2005 seasons, but only won the biggest event of the year 1 of those 4 (she won 2002 worlds, but the Olympics were the biggest event that season). She also missed the podium only once in every edition she skated in, and that was a 4th in the 97-98 edition. She placed lower at the years biggest event than at the Grand Prix final itself in 7 of the 8 times she skated in both, with the exception of the 2004-2005 season where she won both.

Another I would pick is Yu Na Kim. This might seem like a strange choice but she only competed in it 4 times and won it 3, and was a close 2nd in the other. Despite winning worlds twice and Olympics once, per competition this is a far better record than her Olympics/worlds one. She failed to win worlds in any of the 3 years she won it, and came only 3rd at worlds in 2 of those, although she did win the 2010 Olympics in the season of one of her wins. Her performances in 2007 and 2008 were also much better than her performances at worlds, atleast in the long program. Had she competed in the 2010-2011, 2012-2013, 2013-2014 seasons, her record there would likely trump her world/Olympic one even more emphatically.

Shen & Zhao would be a choice of mine. They have an incredible career, including 3 world titles, 3 Olympic medals including the Olympic Gold in 2010. They have won the Grand Prix final 5 times though. That is 5 out of 9 times competing. Their record there is 5 golds, 1 silver, 2 bronze, and a single 4th in their debut in the 97-98 season. They were generally more dominant at the Grand Prix final than anywhere else.

A very minor pick I would have is Davis & White. While they have an incredible record in World/Olympic competition they were still more dominant at the Grand Prix final, winning 5 consecutive times. They lost to Virtue & Moir at the 2010 Olympics, 2010 worlds, 2012 worlds, but never at the Grand Prix final.

Weaver & Poje would be a major pick. They won the Grand Prix final in back to back seasons, and came only 3rd and 5th at worlds those 2 same seasons. In their latter win Papadakis & Cizeron were absent, but it was still an outright drop to 5th at worlds.

Pechelat & Bourzat would be another. They medaled at every single Grand Prix final the 2011-2014 Olympic quad, but medaled at the biggest event of the year only 1 of those 4 times.

Tatiana Malina I would give an honorable mention as she did win the event in 98-99, but never won a medal of any kind at worlds. Her performances in winning the 98-99 Grand Prix final would have won her the silver at worlds that same year behind Butyrskaya.
 

VGThuy

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I'd mention Alissa Czisny, who won the Grand Prix Final in 2010 but never finished higher than 5th at worlds.
To be fair though, Czisny skated about the same, if not better at 2011 Worlds. At least, she scored better at Worlds. It's just that the 2 of her competitors at GPF skated better at Worlds too and two other skaters who weren't at the GPF scored better too.
 

trainingdogs82

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To be fair though, Czisny skated about the same, if not better at 2011 Worlds. At least, she scored better at Worlds. It's just that the 2 of her competitors at GPF skated better at Worlds too and two other skaters who weren't at the GPF scored better too.

That was the case for Slutskaya too come to think of it. Her competitors always skated better at worlds or Olympics. Her performances at the 2001 season Grand Prix final and especialy the 2002 season Grand Prix final (where she actualy won landing only 4 triples in the final 2 rounds each, lol) definitely don't win the 2001 worlds or 2002 Olympics, she would have had to have skated considerably better than in winning the GPF both times. Her performances at the 2000 season Grand Prix final and 2006 season Grand Prix final atleast might have won the 2000 worlds and 2006 Olympics, despite that she didn't even win the actual 2006 season Grand Prix final. The only times I would say she skated great the Grand Prix final were obviously the 2000 season one, and also the 96 season one (since given her actual capabilities at the time, that was her best at that point).

Someone like Hanyu though often had a real downturn from his performance at the GPF though. Yu Na Kim some years as well. Sometimes Shen & Zhao, largely due to bad timing and injuries. And Pechalat & Bourzat often made mistakes at worlds after skating perfectly at the GPF. They were just victims of Sinitsina & Katsalapov's break out outing at the 2014 Olympics, but would have likely medaled in both 2011 and 2013, and likely won 2014 worlds with their GPF performances.
 

trainingdogs82

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Speaking of Czisny I thought she was undermarked at the 2011 worlds, particularly after winning that seasons Grand Prix final, which I thought would have given her more momentum with the judges considering how open the womens event at worlds that year was. I don't really understand how someone like Ando for instance, who is mostly just a jumper who is lackluster in almost every other area, can score so much better when they land the same number of triples as Czisny.
 

MacMadame

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Since the whole field isn't at the GPF, it makes sense that people will not necessarily place as high at Worlds/Olympics as at these comps. So getting 1st at one but 2nd or 3rd at another because you lost to competitors that didn't do the GP that year, doesn't count IMO. Neither does winning both but not skating as well at Worlds/Olympics. I mean a win is a win, right?

So I'd get rid of almost all on that list except maybe Slutskaya and Czisny. :lol:
 

overedge

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Everyone is tired by the time the GPF final rolls around. I applaud any skater who competes there and then does well at Olympics or Worlds.
 

trainingdogs82

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Since the whole field isn't at the GPF, it makes sense that people will not necessarily place as high at Worlds/Olympics as at these comps. So getting 1st at one but 2nd or 3rd at another because you lost to competitors that didn't do the GP that year, doesn't count IMO. Neither does winning both but not skating as well at Worlds/Olympics. I mean a win is a win, right?

So I'd get rid of almost all on that list except maybe Slutskaya and Czisny. :lol:

I agree with your first point, but surely Hanyu too. He literally skated better at the Grand Prix final almost every year than Olympics/worlds, and lost in both 2015 and 2016 at worlds to someone he beat easily at the GPF, and both years his GPF performances would have easily won worlds as well.

And Pechalat & Bourzat regularly lost at worlds to people they beat at the GPF or on the grand prix, minus 2016. Weaver & Poje in both years they won it did as well, losing at worlds to a combined 5 people they beat at the GPF those 2 seasons.
 

MacMadame

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I agree with your first point, but surely Hanyu too.
He probably technically counts. But it's hard to gripe about a 2x Gold Medal winner not doing as well at Worlds/Olympics as at the GPF. ;)

Maybe not even Czisny. She made it to the GPF 3 times and only did well once.
Probably not. I have that season she won SC and then didn't even make it out of Nationals kind of stuck in my head. I also have the year Slutskaya won but then came in 3rd at the Olympics in mind.


I didn't actually go through and evaluate each case by my personal criteria. It was more of a general objection since sometimes seeded skaters don't do the GP and then beat people who did when Worlds comes around.
 

tony

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Probably not. I have that season she won SC and then didn't even make it out of Nationals kind of stuck in my head. I also have the year Slutskaya won but then came in 3rd at the Olympics in mind.
Didn't happen- Asada won the GPF relatively comfortably. Arakawa didn't qualify but wasn't on anyone's radar until the days before the SP and that 3+3+3 combination in practice. Cohen was only in one event that season.

Considering Malinina was only in the top 10 at Worlds once but kept herself in contention for the GPF or did qualify for the entirety of the 1999-2002 cycle, she's definitely someone who fared better in the series. Same with Sokolova when she was always getting stuck behind the Slutskaya/Butyrskaya/Volchkova trio and had a 5-year absence from Worlds.
 

VGThuy

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I really wonder what a committee using BOW would have done with Czisny in her off-nationals years. Would she have been chosen for the Olympic team over Emily Hughes?
Czisny placed way too low at Nationals to be considered that year and they had enough justifying to do when they put Kwan over Emily via injury bye and BOW consideration (when there was more discretion and no known formula or semi-formula/template).
 

her grace

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She placed low, but she would have been in a very high tier if they had used the same system as in 2022. Hughes had no international results to speak of.
 

Foolhardy Ham Lint

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She placed low, but she would have been in a very high tier if they had used the same system as in 2022. Hughes had no international results to speak of.
Actually, Emily Hughes had beaten Alissa in the season prior at the 2005 World Junior Championships. She won bronze to Czisny's 6th place. Interestingly, Kimmie Meissner was 4th at that event as well.
 

VGThuy

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She placed low, but she would have been in a very high tier if they had used the same system as in 2022. Hughes had no international results to speak of.
I think she would have been in Group 3 or 4 while Emily would have been in Group 3 due to her top 3 placement at Nationals.


See page 10. As for what were to scores to determine what constituted scores in top 5, 10, and 15…here’s a link to 2005 Worlds: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_World_Figure_Skating_Championships

I know the COP changed a bit in-between 2005 Worlds and 2005-06 season with the added level 4, but skaters were scoring were more-or-less the same.

You could have argued either way and been right, but I think history showed that the USFS made the right decision. Emily did surprisingly well at the Olympics and Worlds placing a respectable 7th and 8th there when her GP scores looked like she would be buried deep…past top 15.

Czisny bombed Nationals and bombed even worse at Junior Worlds.
 

her grace

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Thanks for the detailed argument. I agree that the committee might have gone with Hughes even without the benefit of hindsight—just that it probably would have been a serious discussion whereas under the former rules, Czisny probably wasn’t considered at all.
 

trainingdogs82

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It still baffles me that Kwan over Hughes was even a controversy. Well I guess the one quite legit argument is there was serious question if she was healthy, which was proven at the Games itself. Still Kwan even at that point was atleast an outside shot of a medal, and a very outside shot of the gold. Emily Hughes had absolutely no shot of a medal, even far less than Kimmie Meissner who herself had virtually none.

It was dissapointing Czisny could not skate well enough at Nationals to make the team after what she did that fall, but her resume was not even close to enough to bypass National results. Wouldn't even be today, let alone back then when all this was still a new thing. There being any controversy of Kwan bumping Hughes initially, and the heart attacks when Wagner bumped Nagasu in 2014, shows it took people quite awhile to get used to this new approach to selecting teams.
 

trainingdogs82

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Evgeny Plushenko I would make a minor pick. Regardless his exact record, my rough memory is he was usually sharper at the GPF when he competed than either Worlds or Olympics. Both Europeans and the GPF in fact.

Emanuel Sandhu would have to be one considering he actually won the GPF and placed well atleast 1 other time, but never came higehr than 5th at worlds, and that one 5th (in a depleted post Olympic worlds which probably had more key absences than many years of the GPF) was his only time higher than like 8th or 9th.
 

caseyedwards

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Nobunari Oda, king of the first half of the season.

GPF finishes of 3rd, 2nd, 2nd and 3rd. In the same seasons, his worlds results were 7th, 28th, 6th, DNQ
In 2010 Oda was extremely hurt by the quick rise of Takahashi to his near best level. I mean there was no reason for him not to get 90 at the Olympics too in the SP. there were no mistakes no errors but other than judges going understandably with Takahashi as japans number one man!! Seeing him at 84 Takahashi at 90 is politics. All the 90’s was politics! Weir too! I mean the scoring in Olympic mens sp was arranged.

You know it could have been Weir and Oda at 90

Also Jeremy Abbott won a gpf too
 

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