ISU Junior Grand Prix 2022-23 announcement

Foolhardy Ham Lint

Well-Known Member
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6,186
This is going to be completely personal, but I preferred it done like this (from Kerrigan, not the man who's with her):


It's a junior skate (albeit at junior worlds) so I think the comparison is fair. We can say the commentators no longer need to talk about each element because we have a tech box now, but I do wish we had some commentary about what the skater was doing well during the skate as well.

Barton/Hanretty talk after the skate, when the elements and the skating are already done, and it doesn't quite seem spontaneous to me, and loses value. Additionally, they go into too much detail (well, probably because they didn't talk at all during the skate, so they cram it all in at the end), which I don't care for when I'm just trying to mull over the skate myself and waiting for the scores to come out. Same goes for the talking during the warm-ups. It was just all a bit much.

I also just plain don't like their personalities and the pairing makes it worse, nor do I care for what they have to say about skaters and programs in general (this applied to Hanretty's senior commentary too, although I don't remember which ones he did last season).

Maybe the point to of staying quiet during the skating is to treat it like a performance, but then I'd just prefer no commentary at all, let me digest it all on my own. I guess the good thing is I can skip straight to scores without needing to listen to any of it? Or give me something like Dick Button during senior grand prixs (I'm going to be watching the Canadian team if they're going to be on this season, whom I do usually like).
For some reason I'm reminded of a recent interview with Barbra Streisand, where she was asked about whether she had ever considered rhinoplasty.

"So what. I have a big nose," she replied. "But you can't have everything."
 

euterpe

Well-Known Member
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12,727
I recall that early in her career Streisand looked into rhinoplasty, but decided against it when doctors told her they could not guarantee that changing the shape of her nose would not affect her singing voice.
 

Amy L

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,010
I recall that early in her career Streisand looked into rhinoplasty, but decided against it when doctors told her they could not guarantee that changing the shape of her nose would not affect her singing voice.
Same with Freddie Mercury and his overbite.
 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
Messages
23,254
USFS Int'l Assignments page confirms Neset/Markelov's withdrawal from JGP Baltic Cup as of 10/1.

I do have to wonder if there is some sort of injury situation rather than a visa issue, mostly because the USFS usually assigns their top skaters to the first three JGPs (Seo, Kalin, Soho Lee, Baram/Tioumentsev, Pham/Rogers; last season Malinin, Thorngren, Levito, Wolfkostin/Chen, Browns, etc) and we were all wondering why Neset/Markelov weren't assigned until Yerevan. We know that Annis was supposed to have been assigned to one of the earlier ones, but then he had that small injury that kept him even from JGP Armenia after he was assigned, and that Broussard didn't even get a JGP assignment until he competed in a NQS event. At this point, I'm sort of worried that Neset/Markelov won't even make it to Egna next week. :(
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

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Messages
1,633
Man so many responses. I won't broach the topic again because I just won't be listening, but I wanted to clarify what I meant by "but I do wish we had some commentary about what the skater was doing well during the skate as well. Barton/Hanretty talk after the skate, when the elements and the skating are already done, and it doesn't quite seem spontaneous to me, and loses value."

When Kerrigan points out in that video that Kim speeds up and slows down with the music, and also later that she has nice rise and fall in the knees, it adds to the viewing experience because the audience now knows what to look for and why Kim was able to enhance the music. Compare this to Barton/Hanretty, and I get mostly generic comments that don't really inform me why a skater did what they did well. Additionally, I can't keep an eye out for it during the skating, nor can I see what the effect was during the replay because it's mostly focused on tech elements and without the music at that.

People like Dick Button/Peggy Fleming used to do the same with their better commentary too IMO.

Further, I think the focus on things like just saying "skating skills are good, deep edges" and "nice transition" well... I get why it exists, but as a general criticism of most of the current commentators, I don't really need the breakdown of each worthless CoP point. It adds nothing for me, and it doesn't really inform me how it made for a good performance overall. Same goes for breaking down the jumps or spins at the end. In this regard, people like Kurt Browning and Tracey Wilson do better. In terms of skating skills and performance, the entire Canadian team does better for me (as do Charlie/Tanith). IDK who'll agree with me on this, maybe @VGThuy? But not sure she watched, and probably watches the American TV versions for seniors.

I agree people like Tara/Johnny and Wagner are rather terrible and just don't shut up, but I think informative commentary in between is okay, and that it should add to the performance, or just shouldn't exist. Further when a skater is bombing, I like the commentary expressing empathy to distract me from what's happening.

I also don't really see skating as an art, so I don't care if someone talks over the music (as long as it's not distracting like with the aforementioned Americans). If I loved a performance, I'll go search for a no-commentary version, but I've thought that about maybe 15 performances in total.

That's that. Not going to be watching the juniors, and will look for some other stream if these two pop up on the international one.
 
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VGThuy

Well-Known Member
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39,534
I like informative commentary during a performance so long as it's professional-sounding and the commentators aren't falling over their words. I also like broadcast-sounding voices (so Johnny and Tara will never do it for me as their voices simply don't sound good on the mic to me). I don't need a full paragraph though. Just point out what the team is doing here and there. I also don't need the commentary to be fluff either unless it's before or after the performance. Ben Agosto and Tanith were my favorite American broadcast team. Charlie is good too but I think Ben is more eloquent. Tanith on her own can sometimes talk too much but I think she's really into the skaters and performances that she's reacting in a way a fan would at times (not in a bad way but more like...if she sees the TES tracker is surprisingly low at a certain point of a program, she may talk more to try to comprehend it herself).

Now, I do like it when a broadcast STARTS the competition with a "test" team where they use them to explain all the itemized elements to look for during the RD or FD, and then do a slight reminder here and there for the following teams afterwards.
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
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73,550
I also just plain don't like their personalities and the pairing makes it worse, nor do I care for what they have to say about skaters and programs in general
That's that. Not going to be watching the juniors
Thank you for taking the time for providing a very different perspective.

I really appreciate that Mark's research goes beyond reading the ISU bios (especially gleaning info directly from the skaters and coaches on site) and think he's been a great asset and addition to the JGP broadcasts this season. :)
 
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Holy Headband

Gubanova OGM2026 truther
Messages
1,077
I sometimes roll my eyes at Ted's poetic raptures a little bit and I think they deserve some criticism for doing Mie Hamada's PR (and Eteri's before the Russian ban) when she's a documented abuser, but overall I don't mind Ted and Mark, I like that they're positive about all junior skaters and talk to them in person/support them in various small ways, not all of which become public knowledge, and I really appreciate their silence during the performances.

So I don't think they're flawless, but they do a good job overall, they seem like nice people who care about young skaters, and they don't detract from my enjoyment the way virtually all other commentators do when they talk over the music.
 

barbarafan

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,204
Man so many responses. I won't broach the topic again because I just won't be listening, but I wanted to clarify what I meant by "but I do wish we had some commentary about what the skater was doing well during the skate as well. Barton/Hanretty talk after the skate, when the elements and the skating are already done, and it doesn't quite seem spontaneous to me, and loses value."

When Kerrigan points out in that video that Kim speeds up and slows down with the music, and also later that she has nice rise and fall in the knees, it adds to the viewing experience because the audience now knows what to look for and why Kim was able to enhance the music. Compare this to Barton/Hanretty, and I get mostly generic comments that don't really inform me why a skater did what they did well. Additionally, I can't keep an eye out for it during the skating, nor can I see what the effect was during the replay because it's mostly focused on tech elements and without the music at that.

People like Dick Button/Peggy Fleming used to do the same with their better commentary too IMO.

Further, I think the focus on things like just saying "skating skills are good, deep edges" and "nice transition" well... I get why it exists, but as a general criticism of most of the current commentators, I don't really need the breakdown of each worthless CoP point. It adds nothing for me, and it doesn't really inform me how it made for a good performance overall. Same goes for breaking down the jumps or spins at the end. In this regard, people like Kurt Browning and Tracey Wilson do better. In terms of skating skills and performance, the entire Canadian team does better for me (as do Charlie/Tanith). IDK who'll agree with me on this, maybe @VGThuy? But not sure she watched, and probably watches the American TV versions for seniors.

I agree people like Tara/Johnny and Wagner are rather terrible and just don't shut up, but I think informative commentary in between is okay, and that it should add to the performance, or just shouldn't exist. Further when a skater is bombing, I like the commentary expressing empathy to distract me from what's happening.

I also don't really see skating as an art, so I don't care if someone talks over the music (as long as it's not distracting like with the aforementioned Americans). If I loved a performance, I'll go search for a no-commentary version, but I've thought that about maybe 15 performances in total.

That's that. Not going to be watching the juniors, and will look for some other stream if these two pop up on the international one.
each to his own.
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
Messages
73,550
USFS Int'l Assignments page confirms Neset/Markelov's withdrawal from JGP Baltic Cup as of 10/1.

... At this point, I'm sort of worried that Neset/Markelov won't even make it to Egna next week. :(
Neset/Markelov intend to compete in Egna (will be their only JGP but better one than none!) as posted on their team Instagram account earlier today: https://www.instagram.com/p/CjUSY8-DHXj/
 

Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
Messages
73,550
Cross-posting here from the thread in the JGP forum in Kiss & Cry...

Junior Ice Dance standings after 5 events with the final JGP in Egna next week: https://results.isu.org/events/jgp2022/jgpsdance.htm

1 Nadiia BASHYNSKA / Peter BEAUMONT CAN 15 (170.34) + 15 (171.61) = 30 (341.95) QUALIFIED FOR FINAL
2 Darya GRIMM / Michail SAVITSKIY GER 15 (161.42) + 13 (154.41) = 28 (315.83) QUALIFIED FOR FINAL
3 Phebe BEKKER / James HERNANDEZ GBR 13 (159.55) + 13 (158.85) = 26 (318.40) QUALIFIED FOR FINAL
4 Celina FRADJI / Jean-Hans FOURNEAUX FRA 13 (147.66) + 11 (157.11) = 24 (304.77)
5 Mariia PINCHUK / Mykyta POGORIELOV UKR 11 (150.28) + 9 (150.95) = 20 (301.23)
6 Vanessa PHAM / Jonathan ROGERS USA 11 (143.26) + 9 (148.24) = 20 (291.50)
7 Katerina MRAZKOVA / Daniel MRAZEK CZE 15 (176.26) + Egna (their home rink)
8 Hannah LIM / Ye QUAN KOR 15 (161.96) + Egna
...
12 Sandrine GAUTHIER / Quentin THIEREN CAN 13 (156.92) + Egna
...
16 Anna SIMOVA / Kirill AKSENOV SVK 9 (148.25) + Egna
...
18 Jenna HAUER / Benjamin STARR USA 7 (147.44) + Egna
19 Angelina KUDRYAVTSEVA / Ilia KARANKEVICH CYP 7 (143.24) + Egna

Leah NESET / Artem MARKELOV USA are scheduled to compete in their only JGP in Egna (160.13 in winning Dallas Classic in July, highest NQS score in Junior).

===

Junior Men's standings: https://results.isu.org/events/jgp2022/jgpsmen.htm

1 Nikolaj MEMOLA ITA 13 (214.11) + 15 (225.76) = 28 (439.87) QUALIFIED FOR FINAL
2 Nozomu YOSHIOKA JPN 15 (219.68) + 7 (194.63) = 22 (414.31)
3 Robert YAMPOLSKY USA 9 (196.67) + 13 (223.06) = 22 (419.73)
4 Rio NAKATA JPN 13 (200.17) + 9 (200.41) = 22 (400.58)
5 Younghyun CHA KOR 13 (196.15) + 9 (199.18) = 22 (395.33)
6 Minkyu SEO KOR 9 (209.59) + 11 (206.67) = 20 (416.26)
7 Takeru Amine KATAISE JPN 15 (234.24) + Egna
8 Shunsuke NAKAMURA JPN 15 (219.65) + Egna
9 Lucas BROUSSARD USA 15 (209.39) + Egna (assigned in table)
...
14 Andreas NORDEBACK SWE 11 (212.37) + Egna (just won bronze in his senior int'l debut, scoring 229.88 at Finlandia)
15 Rakhat BRALIN KAZ 11 (199.38) + Egna

Other contenders in Egna include:
Tsudoi SUTO JPN 5 (183.30)
Aleksa RAKIC CAN 4 (182.82); ISU PB is 205.23 at 2020 YOG
Naoki ROSSI SUI 3 (187.85); Egna is his home rink (ISU PB is 206.65 at 2022 Jr. Worlds)
Jaekeun LEE KOR - Egna (199.63 & 3rd at the JGP selection comp. for his 1 assignment)
Dias JIRENBAYEV KAZ - Egna (ISU PB is 192.92 at 2022 4CC)
Daniel MARTYNOV USA - int'l season debut at Egna (WD from his JGP last year)

Who knows what's going to happen?!?!:watch:

===

Junior Women's standings: https://results.isu.org/events/jgp2022/jgpswomen.htm

1 Mao SHIMADA JPN 15 (212.65) + 15 (217.68) = 30 (430.33) QUALIFIED FOR FINAL
2 Jia SHIN KOR 15 (194.68) + 13 (194.69) = 28 (389.37) QUALIFIED FOR FINAL
3 Ami NAKAI JPN 11 (185.62) + 15 (205.90) = 26 (391.52) QUALIFIED FOR FINAL
4 Minsol KWON KOR 13 (189.37) + 11 (186.63) = 24 (376.00)
5 Ayumi SHIBAYAMA JPN 13 (188.39) + 7 (173.05) = 20 (361.44)
6 Mia KALIN USA 9 (175.85) + 9 (177.71) = 18 (353.56)
7 Hana YOSHIDA JPN 15 (203.52) + Egna
8 Kimmy REPOND SUI 5 (168.96) + 9 (180.45) = 14 (349.41)
9 Mone CHIBA JPN 13 (205.82) + Egna
10 Soho LEE USA 13 (185.92) + Egna
...
13 Chaeyeon KIM KOR 11 (195.46) + Egna (ETA: will be her 3rd comp. in 3 weeks since she is making her senior int'l debut at Finlandia this weekend, as @Karen-W has pointed out)
...
18 Inga GURGENIDZE GEO 9 (180.28) + Egna
...
26 Iida KARHUNEN FIN 4 (173.75) + Egna
...
42 Polina DZSUMANYIJAZOVA HUN 0 (156.16) + Egna
...
46 Minchae KIM KOR 0 (152.25) + Egna
...
53 Daria AFINOGENOVA LTU 0 (148.61) + Egna
54 Anna PEZZETTA ITA 0 (145.31) + Egna (home rink)

JGP debuts in Egna include:
Rose THEROUX CAN
Phattaratida KANESHIGE THA
Sherry ZHANG USA
 
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Sylvia

Rooting for underdogs!
Messages
73,550
The 6 Pairs Qualifiers for the JGP Final, plus the 3 alternate teams, were finalized after last week's Solidarity Cup in Gdansk: https://results.isu.org/events/jgp2022/jgpspairs.htm

1 Anastasia GOLUBEVA / Hektor GIOTOPOULOS MOORE AUS 15 (166.56) + 15 (161.17) = 30 (327.73)
2 Cayla SMITH / Andy DENG USA 13 (140.72) + 15 (137.23) = 28 (277.95)
3 Sophia BARAM / Daniel TIOUMENTSEV USA 15 (171.36) + 11 (152.49) = 26 (323.85)
4 Violetta SIEROVA / Ivan KHOBTA UKR 13 (143.48) + 13 (154.76) = 26 (298.24)
5 Ava Rae KEMP / Yohnatan ELIZAROV CAN 13 (124.73) + 7 (129.37) = 20 (254.10)
6 Chloe PANETTA / Kieran THRASHER CAN 11 (139.72) + 9 (133.72) = 20 (273.44)

1st Alternate: Haruna MURAKAMI / Sumitada MORIGUCHI JPN 9 (129.84) + 11 (140.35) = 20 (270.19)
2nd Alternate: Ashlyn SCHMITZ / Tristan TAYLOR CAN 11 (113.40) + 5 (125.38) = 16 (238.78)
3rd Alternate: Oxana VOUILLAMOZ / Flavien GINIAUX FRA 7 (124.97) + 9 (140.03) = 16 (265.00)
 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
Messages
23,254
Cross-posting here from the thread in the JGP forum in Kiss & Cry...

Junior Men's standings: https://results.isu.org/events/jgp2022/jgpsmen.htm

1 Nikolaj MEMOLA ITA 13 (214.11) + 15 (225.76) = 28 (439.87) QUALIFIED FOR FINAL
2 Nozomu YOSHIOKA JPN 15 (219.68) + 7 (194.63) = 22 (414.31)
3 Robert YAMPOLSKY USA 9 (196.67) + 13 (223.06) = 22 (419.73)
4 Rio NAKATA JPN 13 (200.17) + 9 (200.41) = 22 (400.58)
5 Younghyun CHA KOR 13 (196.15) + 9 (199.18) = 22 (395.33)
6 Minkyu SEO KOR 9 (209.59) + 11 (206.67) = 20 (416.26)
7 Takeru Amine KATAISE JPN 15 (234.24) + Egna
8 Shunsuke NAKAMURA JPN 15 (219.65) + Egna
9 Lucas BROUSSARD USA 15 (209.39) + Egna (assigned in table)
...
14 Andreas NORDEBACK SWE 11 (212.37) + Egna (just won bronze in his senior int'l debut, scoring 229.88 at Finlandia)
15 Rakhat BRALIN KAZ 11 (199.38) + Egna

Other contenders in Egna include:
Tsudoi SUTO JPN 5 (183.30)
Aleksa RAKIC CAN 4 (182.82); ISU PB is 205.23 at 2020 YOG
Naoki ROSSI SUI 3 (187.85); Egna is his home rink (ISU PB is 206.65 at 2022 Jr. Worlds)
Jaekeun LEE KOR - Egna (199.63 & 3rd at the JGP selection comp. for his 1 assignment)
Dias JIRENBAYEV KAZ - Egna (ISU PB is 192.92 at 2022 4CC)
Daniel MARTYNOV USA - int'l season debut at Egna (WD from his JGP last year)

Who knows what's going to happen?!?!:watch:
Yes! The JGP Egna entries page has been updated today also and shows Lucas now assigned to Egna, as we've all been anticipating! Should be exciting!
 

zebobes

Active Member
Messages
596
The Men's competition definitely has the greatest uncertainty. With 3 Gold Medalists and 2 Bronze medalists in play, so much could happen. Here are a number of unlikely but mathematically possible scenarios in play.

1. Nozomu Yoshioka could possibly not qualify. If the five medalists competing split up the points among themselves as evenly as possible, with the two bronze medalists getting first and second, and the remaining three getting 3-5, Nozomu could end up getting edged out.

2. The US could qualify two skaters... or no skaters at all. Robert has a good chance of making it to the final if two of the five medalists bomb, as he has the current highest point total of the non-gold medalists. Lucas just has to skate consistent, and he could end up as low as 5th and still qualify so long as he scores 205 points or more, which would put in in front of Nozomu on the tie breaker. (He scored 209 at his first competition, even though he fell on an underrotated triple axel in the short, so that means he has some margin for error). The thing is that with the possibility of making the final right in front of him for the taking that means it will be SOOOOO easy for nerves to creep in. The worst case scenario for the US would be Lucas bombing and the other four medalists making it to the final. If Lucas skates well, and gets at least second place, it would actually make it easier for Robert to qualify, as Lucas would help to push one of the 2 Bronze medalists out of the final.

3. Japan is guaranteed at least one skater at the final. No matter what happens, there will at least one Japanese skater, which definitely makes sense as they have gotten the most medalists on the JGP this year. However, it's mathematically possible for there to be only one skater qualified, but on the converse, they could have up to four, if the right people bomb next week. My money is on three qualifying, but you never know!

And finally, Korea is right on the threshold of really hitting it big in the men as well, except most of their men seem to have a critical weakness when it comes to triple axels. Their coaches seem to have the technique up to triple lutz in the bag, and they have such beautiful jumps, but they seem to not have figure out the biggest jumps yet. Once they do, Korea will be in the same spot as Japan, and the other countries will have to fight for the leftovers.
 

jlai

Question everything
Messages
13,352
Actually I think Robert Y’s chance is fair but not great. We have 5 skaters with a shot at the final next week.
 

tony

The older, the crankier
Messages
13,537
Actually I think Robert Y’s chance is fair but not great. We have 5 skaters with a shot at the final next week.
The only way he's not in is if one of Nordeback or Bralin finishes as high as silver and the three previous winners competing in this event (Kataise, Nakamura, and Broussard) all stay in the top 5.

Nordeback has the potential to do this, for sure, but it would still be a stretch based on first-event scores.

ETA- Since Bralin has the lowest first-event total score, this scenario of Yoshioka getting bumped out of the final is extremely unlikely.
 
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jlai

Question everything
Messages
13,352
The only way he's not in is if one of Nordeback or Bralin finishes as high as silver and the three previous winners competing in this event (Kataise, Nakamura, and Broussard) all stay in the top 5.

Nordeback has the potential to do this, for sure, but it would still be a stretch based on first-event scores.

ETA- the only way Yoshioka is not qualified is if:
Nordeback and Bralin finish 1-2
AND
Kataise, Nakamura, and Broussard finish 3-4-5 in any order and whoever is 5th place beats him on tiebreaker for two-event total points. Since Bralin has the lowest first-event total score, this scenario is extremely unlikely and it's a good bet that Yoshioka has qualified.
Nozomu and Robert Y had a 20 point fluctuation between 1st and second event. Juniors are inconsistent and a 20 point fluctuation (either way) is also likely for the remaining jgp contenders; all it takes is popping high value jumps.
 

Karen-W

Neither sexy nor sultry, but loving life!
Messages
23,254
The only way he's not in is if one of Nordeback or Bralin finishes as high as silver and the three previous winners competing in this event (Kataise, Nakamura, and Broussard) all stay in the top 5.

Nordeback has the potential to do this, for sure, but it would still be a stretch based on first-event scores.

ETA- Since Bralin has the lowest first-event total score, this scenario of Yoshioka getting bumped out of the final is extremely unlikely.
And yet Nordeback just scored significantly higher at Finlandia to win the bronze, and that was without a quad in the SP, so it is entirely possible he does win silver next week.
 

Dai's Blues for Klook

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,633
He may not be your cup of tea, but Dick Button is a living legend, revered in America, and deserves to be treated with a modicum of decorum.
Don't worry about it - Dick Button said more things worth saying in a single minute of commentary than Mark Hanretty ever will in his entire career. ;)

"To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest."... et cetera
 

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