2020 Grand Prix series thread

[Hedwig]

So if AUS can't have skating, no one should have it?

Seriously.

i am very happy that the ISU is trying to get some kind of competition. Of course it wont be like normal times and all results and scores will have an asterix but so what?
Better than nothing. For skaters AND fans.

Maybe it will still have to be canceled- especially the GPF but now there is at least still an OPTION and I am very happy about that.

 

[morqet]

The skaters most screwed over are from South Korea, plenty who should have been getting assignments in a normal year, but at the moment the only country they can potentially enter is France. But I don't see any other way to hold the GP that would have given equal opportunities to everyone.

 

[Orm Irian]

So if AUS can't have skating, no one should have it?

Or you can think about it this way: which coach's life are you willing to sacrifice so you can watch some skating? Arantunyan? Wilson? Mishin? Lambiel? Haguenauer? Huth? Ade? How about Chafik Besseghier, who's already more vulnerable due to having had a collapsed lung, are you okay with him dying of this thing so you can watch skating? Because that's what you're saying is acceptable to you if you accept intercontinental travel for skating purposes. The risk of someone dying. And yes, for the record, once the surprise wore off I was pissed off with Brendan and Harley for travelling to France, and I still am.

And which skaters are you okay with seeing on a ventilator, their heart damaged, maybe needing a lung transplant, never able to skate again - if they come out the other side at all? Davide Lewton Brain? Shoma Uno? Piper Gilles? Is it fine with you if Guillaume Cizeron ends up needing dialysis for life because hey, you get to watch some skating with people from more than one continent in the competition? Or if Andrea Montesinos Cantu suffers brain damage? If you're happy for skaters to travel intercontinentally to skate, you're saying you're happy for them to die or become permanently disabled so you can be entertained.

Which judges are you willing to see die? Old ones, young ones, judges with kids, judges who care for their elderly parents, big fed judges, small fed judges, dance judges, singles judges? If you want them to travel intercontinentally so you can watch competitions, you're telling these volunteers that you're okay with them dying to fill your leisure hours. What about tech panel members, any of them you're willing to sacrifice? Vanessa Gusmeroli, Shin Amano?

Travel is not a guaranteed consequence-free action right now. Especially intercontinental travel, but let's be real, cross-border travel within continents and even within some countries too. Including Australia. For example, James Min is trapped in Stage 4 lockdown in Melbourne right now, unable to train and unable to get back to his home in Adelaide, because it's too ruddy dangerous for him to cross the border to get here; the likelihood that he would bring the lurgi with him is too high. And all of the people involved in this sport are people, with bodies vulnerable to this infection and lives they want to keep living and others who love them and depend upon them. And I don't believe that either we or the ISU have any right to even ask, let along expect, them to risk their lives and the lives of anyone they come into contact with either while travelling, while at a competition or after they return home just so that we can have our boredom alleviated for a few hours each day over a six-week period.

 

[Marco]

I believe Emmy is still training with MJM in the Boston area (she competed with her collegiate skating team this past season). I don’t know if she is eligible to start representing TPE this season and/or if that is her intention.

Says so on her wiki page " She will represent Taiwan from the 2019–20 figure skating season.". She last competed for the US internationally at 2018 Junior Worlds.

She competed at Taiwan Nationals in August 2019 and then her season never took off.

 

[aftershocks]

Hypothetical Pairs Fields- feel free to correct anyone who is in the wrong location or if I am missing anyone...

USA- Cain/Leduc, Kayne/Oshea, Calalang/Johnson, Knierim/Frazier, Tarasova/Morozov, Lu/Mitrofanov, Finster/Nagy
CAN- MT/M, Walsh/Michaud, Ruest/Wolfe, Brasseur/Daleman, Serafini/Tran, Miura/Kihara, Stellato/Deschamps
FRA- DM/Guarise, James/Cipres?, Hase/Seegert, Hocke/Kunkel, Ghilardi/Ambrosini, Ziegler/Kiefer (or RUS)
CHN- Sui/Han, Peng/Jin, Tang/Yang
JPN ?
RUS Boikova, Mishina, Pavliuchenko, Panfilova, Pleshkov, Kolesov, Nazarychev, Mironov

Good guesses, but Serafini/Tran don't train in Canada anymore. They are more likely to be on the USA event roster in lieu of Finster/Nagy. Or the fields might be expanded and more teams will be given a chance to compete.

 

[MsZem]

Or you can think about it this way: which coach's life are you willing to sacrifice so you can watch some skating? Arantunyan? Wilson? Mishin? Lambiel? Haguenauer? Huth? Ade? How about Chafik Besseghier, who's already more vulnerable due to having had a collapsed lung, are you okay with him dying of this thing so you can watch skating? Because that's what you're saying is acceptable to you if you accept intercontinental travel for skating purposes. The risk of someone dying.

Chafik Besseghier is retired, or at least has not competed since the 2018 Olympics.

Skating events, like other sporting events, are held based on the guidance and health regulations of each country. Anyone who is at risk is free to opt out; anyone who is concerned, even if they might be considered low risk, is free to opt out. This is not a normal season and the ISU is hardly going to sanction skaters for skipping GPs. And of course, it would certainly not be unusual for a skater to compete without their main coach.

Is there anything about skating that makes it higher risk than other sports that also require travel? If anything it is lower risk because it's a non-contact sport in which judges don't need to be right on top of the action. In addition, travel is being limited based on where skaters are/can go safely, and with officials coming only from the host country.

This is a reasonable and responsible plan from the ISU, and one that can be changed based on developing circumstances. I'm sorry things are difficult for people in Australia, but you cannot expect everyone to conduct themselves based on circumstances there.

 

[misskarne]

At the end of the day. We have a global pandemic. It is everyone's problem and needs to be taken seriously. Frankly, I think it's totally irresponsible for any international sport to be going forward right now. How are we expecting average people to be obeying the rules for containment when sportspeople are getting preferential treatment and exemptions?

I would also be genuinely stunned if the ISU have managed to find an insurance company to underwrite international events in the time of a global pandemic. They don't even seem to have a particularly clear vision on how this will work, but seem to have rushed into this "concept".

The GP series is supposed to start in October, which is only two months away. A lot can happen in two months. This thing is far from over and as the northern hemisphere turns cold again who knows what will happen?

 

[Miezekatze]

I'm very glad that the ISU is trying to put something on , no matter what it turns out to be.

There's plenty of people travelling in Europe for fun and vacationing right now, so i don't get how athletes are getting a "preferential" treatment. I visited an amusement park last week with my little grand cousin and I felt quite safe with teh safety measures, other friends are lying at the beach in Italy or the Netherlands...in Salzburg the yearly opera festival started on August 1st (of course with less audience than normally). Skaters from the EU travelling to France for thh GP would not get preferential treatment in regards to travel, they'd be doing what everybody can do here at the moment. I could get into a car and drive to France today if I wanted.

I see that there are huge differences in how the pandemic is going throughout the world and if you are at a place where everything is very bad right now, it might seem "crazy" to have professional sports, but the reality is that there's activities going on in lot's of places in some adjusted form or the other, so I don't think holding some localized events must necessarily be more unsafe than a lot of regular stuff that is already going on (and IF the situation in a host city or host country is too bad, I'm sure the event will get cancelled anyway).

I just read yesterday taht some tennis players decided that they want to go to the US Open, because they don't find it safe enough.
So I'm sure skaters who don't feel ready or safe will take the same decision, but I think within the current rules and laws, they can take their own decisions like everybody else can.

 

[starrynight]

I wonder if there are any special health and safety plans to be implemented?

Most of the sports that are back on have safety plans, bubbles etc. Or will it just be a 'cross your fingers' approach? I expect each Fed will be responsible for their own system.

I just can't see any way that a special system could be put in place for say, Skate America, if all the USA athletes have to travel from New York, California, Florida, Michigan etc to Las Vegas. That'll all just be skaters, parents, coaches etc just having to make their own travel plans and turn up to the hotel. That's not really a localised comp given the size of the USA. The wild card is the factor of everyone travelling from so many different places and then congregating together. And then I suspect home rinks will need to have a protocol for how they handle return athletes too.

This is probably the kind of thing that could go completely fine. Or be a disaster for the ages.

I guess it will be in each fed's interests to try to look after the arrangements, because it could actually decimate a national team if 'rona went through all the athletes and coaches. But it could be fine, it could not be. Who knows. It's just one of those dice rolls. Guess we will just have to see.

But as for who can go and who can't ... I expect the whole thing will end up being so imbalanced wth stacked fields in some countries and non-existent fields of only a couple of teams/skaters in others (think Japan only having one pairs team compared to every Russian lady being at Rostelecom Cup). Plus only domestic judging panels. I don't think it's going to mean much in the scheme of things. I expect it will just be live streamed with no TV broadcast. Honestly it will probably be like Lombardia Trophy or something.

Someone on twitter described it as being like an exhibition for competitive programs. Given that no technical minimums, season bests or ranking points apply, then that's probably accurate.

 

[tony]

Or you can think about it this way: which coach's life are you willing to sacrifice so you can watch some skating? Arantunyan? Wilson? Mishin? Lambiel? Haguenauer? Huth? Ade? How about Chafik Besseghier, who's already more vulnerable due to having had a collapsed lung, are you okay with him dying of this thing so you can watch skating? Because that's what you're saying is acceptable to you if you accept intercontinental travel for skating purposes. The risk of someone dying. And yes, for the record, once the surprise wore off I was pissed off with Brendan and Harley for travelling to France, and I still am.

Travel is not a guaranteed consequence-free action right now. Especially intercontinental travel, but let's be real, cross-border travel within continents and even within some countries too. Including Australia. For example, James Min is trapped in Stage 4 lockdown in Melbourne right now, unable to train and unable to get back to his home in Adelaide, because it's too ruddy dangerous for him to cross the border to get here; the likelihood that he would bring the lurgi with him is too high. And all of the people involved in this sport are people, with bodies vulnerable to this infection and lives they want to keep living and others who love them and depend upon them. And I don't believe that either we or the ISU have any right to even ask, let along expect, them to risk their lives and the lives of anyone they come into contact with either while travelling, while at a competition or after they return home just so that we can have our boredom alleviated for a few hours each day over a six-week period.

This is 100% doom and gloom. I already told you that I'm more vulnerable for the exact same reason that you mentioned one other (retired) skater to be. This is not a restaurant. This is not a nightclub or bar. This is not coming into repeated contact with many people for a long period of time. Yes, there is some risk. But you know what? There's also risk in their choice to be at the ice rink every day. There's also risk for them to go get groceries or go get their hair cut or any other kind of small treatment. But are they not doing that? We already know they are back at the rink and not sheltering in place 24 hours a day. I guarantee you many of them are back in the gym.

I've read a lot about plane safety because I'm moving out of my city and want to go check out a few cities before I make a final decision. Many of the airlines in the US are blocking off seats. I already mentioned that my flight attendant friends (who, mind you, some of them have been working this entire time) say that the majority of their flights aren't anywhere near full even with those seats blocked off. I also read that the way air flows in a plane actually helps a lot, as well.

You're literally writing as if all of these things are just being opened up for figure skaters so that the fans have something to do. Be realistic. People are going places and have been going places nearly this whole time. Essential workers have been doing this the whole time. If they feel at risk, they don't have to go. This isn't going to be the most serious of competitions.

At the end of the day. We have a global *********. It is everyone's problem and needs to be taken seriously. Frankly, I think it's totally irresponsible for any international sport to be going forward right now. How are we expecting average people to be obeying the rules for containment when sportspeople are getting preferential treatment and exemptions?

To you as well- where exactly do you get your news from in Australia when it pertains to the world? No one is getting preferential treatment and exemptions because of sports. There is no 'you have to sit at home and do nothing' as some people on this board repeatedly try to suggest. There are things that are extremely high risk. Travel within countries and to other countries as it pertains to Europe is happening daily.

 

[thvu]

We need to stop thinking about these as Grand Prix events. What these competitions are in actuality are domestic competitions with the possibility of foreign participants. Having all the officials come from the host country pretty much precludes the idea that these competitions will meet any type of standard in calling and judging (regardless of whether you thought one even existed before...)

I'm happy we might see skating! But this is not business as usual and we should stop deluding ourselves into thinking it can be as such. The ISU has been sitting on this for months, and the best they could come up with is an incomplete frame that could easily have been stolen from posts here.

 

[rfisher]

The world wide situation is very fluid. I think this is the best compromise they could come up with. The comps won't count toward season best or world rankings so no "unfair" advantages there. They give a little prize money and let the skaters compete. By defaulting back to the individual host country's federation, it allows the host to cancel an event if the local situation dictates. All the athletes, their parents and their coaches know the situation and will make choices that they see fit. And, maybe, just maybe, we get to see some skating. Let the skating begin. I'd be settling in to start the JGP series by now and I'm hopeful we'll get to see something in a couple of months.

 

[Lacey]

? I wonder whether the ISU would consider moving Four Continents to a country where the fans are less hostile to foreigners. France would be a good, neutral location and might be willing to host.

Have 4cc in a country that’s not representative of those four continents?

If so I would love for them to have Europeans right here in Los Angeles.

We’re quite welcoming. I’ll even open up my door (well for Guarise, Nikita and Ivan). One a night should do ANL real good!

Unfortunately, in my very unprofessional opinion, I think they might have to skip 4Cs and Europeans this year. The logistics are almost impossible.

But, a Country Prix (US Comp, Canada Comp) works, with no Grand Prix at the end. It's a smaller substitution.

 

[Vagabond]

But, a Country Prix (US Comp, Canada Comp) works, with no Grand Prix at the end. It's a smaller substitution.

It's time to call it for what it is: the Petit Prix.

 

[Yazmeen]

ALL OF THIS POST, especially this part:

And all of the people involved in this sport are people, with bodies vulnerable to this infection and lives they want to keep living and others who love them and depend upon them. And I don't believe that either we or the ISU have any right to even ask, let along expect, them to risk their lives and the lives of anyone they come into contact with either while travelling, while at a competition or after they return home just so that we can have our boredom alleviated for a few hours each day over a six-week period.

I realize how much folks miss seeing skating; hell, I MISS skating - I haven't been on the ice in almost 5 months because I have both asthma and hypertension, and I'm in my early 60s. My rink is open and they're following all the guidelines, I could go back, but I won't for a while, because I'm simply high risk. I've made myself content with the frank possibility that I won't be back until 2021, even not until well into 2021.

I'm also a physician, a medical educator who works as a medical writer and director, and I've been researching and writing on the BB continuously, so I have access to more sources and evidence than the average bear. My opinion on the Grand Prix events? Autumn is likely to be a time of either second waves of BB or the current wave continuing even in countries that have been doing better (and especially in the United States of "This is America, I'll do what I want and 'eff everyone else"). And that's the issue that @Orm Irian is trying to highlight - no matter how carefully you do this, you're going to put people at risk - not just the skaters, but their families, coaches, the judges, etc. My frank medical opinion? These competitions are not worth the risk - they could really do something virtual that would admittedly be much smaller but that could still be judged and livestreamed and still provide entertainment for the fans.

I definitely am looking at the beer burden from a different POV than most of you, but a more cautious POV is not invalid. I've seen WAY too much downplaying of the risks and harms of this disease, especially in the USA, even among good friends who are simply not handling the restrictions and inconveniences that are being designed to keep them alive and healthy. In the end, people's health and lives are not worth sports entertainment. PERIOD.

ETA: one more thing - @Tony Wheeler: airlines blocking off seats???? Yeah, some did for a while, but AA, United and others have now returned to flying at full capacity whenever possible. Southwest announced they will not even be cleaning armrests and seat belts between flights to shorten turnaround times. Take a mask, accept the risk, good luck.

 

[her grace]

It seems to me the Korean girls are the big losers with this GP layout.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[Carolla5501]

And your brilliant solution that safely included skaters from all countries competing in person without running into travel restrictions or prioritizing what you call "big country" skaters was...?

I'm dying to hear it.

WE all know what it is .... just give honorary championships to those she likes. (being unbiased has never been one of her traits on here LOL!)


I think we just let the skaters and coaches deal with this and quit announcing that 'we have the greater good in mind' because that's NEVER been an FSU strong point

The other side of this is the Grand Prix gives the skaters $$ and it gives the federations something to sell on TV for $$. We really don't need the federations declaring bankruptcy!


But I find this list particularly interesting

Hypothetical Ladies Fields
USA- Bell, Tennell, Chen, Glenn, Starr, Ting, Gracie, Hanna, Hicks, Marin H?, YCLeung, Young You

So we would have the 2020 US Championships 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 10th and 12th place ladies??? And 2 skaters who didn't compete last season Hmmm...Interesting collection that seems to skip over quite a few skaters! (Sorry but Gracie doesn't get a Grand Prix IMHO unless they can't fill the 12 spots with skaters in the US. )

 

[Bigbird]

For some of the small countries, it seems like an awful lot to risk for nothing. But if it helps most....I guess.

 

[haribobo]

Sure we can consider Venetta, Izzo, Ikenishi, and Bautista also. Until we have summer/fall scores for some of these skaters, its hard to place them...I just went with the "names" for a hypothetical...

 

[MacMadame]

Or you can think about it this way: which coach's life are you willing to sacrifice so you can watch some skating? Arantunyan? Wilson? Mishin? Lambiel? Haguenauer? Huth? Ade? How about Chafik Besseghier, who's already more vulnerable due to having had a collapsed lung, are you okay with him dying of this thing so you can watch skating? Because that's what you're saying is acceptable to you if you accept intercontinental travel for skating purposes. The risk of someone dying.

These are being held as domestic competitions using whoever is already in the country. There is no intercontinental travel required at all.

They are also not really GP events. They give no prize money, they give no points, they don't impact the standings. So anyone who doesn't feel comfortable participating has no incentive to go anyway. They are just a way for skaters to have something to train for and to get some competitive experience.

Finally, the entire world isn't all in the same place. Many countries have very few cases. Having an event there, with reasonable precautions, is not risking someone dying. Just because things are a shitshow in the US (where I live), I am not going to begrudge some other country having an event. And even here, there are parts of the country that are in good shape.

And just because AUS has decided that no cases are acceptable, doesn't mean the rest of the world needs to use the same standards. People from AUS flying into a part of the world where case numbers are very small and continuing to decline is not a horribly irresponsible thing to do.

 

[MsZem]

They are also not really GP events. They give no prize money, they give no points, they don't impact the standings. So anyone who doesn't feel comfortable participating has no incentive to go anyway. They are just a way for skaters to have something to train for and to get some competitive experience.

Based on the announcement I think they will award prize money, and the skaters would totally deserve it.

All relevant details such as applicable disciplines included in each ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating event, number and criteria/ conditions/restrictions of invited Competitors’ entries, qualification criteria for the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Final, cost responsibilities, qualification and number of Officials, ISU financial & other assistance including Prize Money to the organizing ISU Members, will be worked out by a dedicated ISU Council appointed Working Group in cooperation with the six organizing ISU Members of the individual Grand Prix events and, subject to Council approval, will be published as soon as possible.

But no points or impact on the standings - so basically, the 2020 GP events are senior B competitions, except with all-local judging panels.

 

[Colonel Green]

Holding competitions at this point is just intrinsically going to be unfair to some parties, but under the circumstances it's in the best interests of the sport to get some kind of competitions happening and get something they can put on TV (at a time when networks are going to be starved for new content, I wouldn't be surprised if channels are much more interested on airing these in attractive timeslots).

 

[skatfan]

Finally, the entire world isn't all in the same place. Many countries have very few cases. Having an event there, with reasonable precautions, is not risking someone dying. Just because things are a shitshow in the US (where I live), I am not going to begrudge some other country having an event. And even here, there are parts of the country that are in good shape.

Let's remember that Nevada has a lot of cases. So does Clark County, the county where Las Vegas is.

COVID-19 dashboard here.

From the dashboard: In the last 7 days, almost 6,000 cases reported in the county, with about 16% positive of those tested. Rate of positives is 250 per 100k population in the last 7 days. And remember this is likely low because those short-term visitors engaging in high-risk behavior won't get tested before they leave town.

Good luck, all who choose to go to Skate America, you're going to need it.

 

[tony]

I'm also a physician, a medical educator who works as a medical writer and director, and I've been researching and writing on the BB continuously, so I have access to more sources and evidence than the average bear. My opinion on the Grand Prix events? Autumn is likely to be a time of either second waves of BB or the current wave continuing even in countries that have been doing better (and especially in the United States of "This is America, I'll do what I want and 'eff everyone else"). And that's the issue that @Orm Irian is trying to highlight - no matter how carefully you do this, you're going to put people at risk - not just the skaters, but their families, coaches, the judges, etc. My frank medical opinion? These competitions are not worth the risk - they could really do something virtual that would admittedly be much smaller but that could still be judged and livestreamed and still provide entertainment for the fans.

I respect all that you are doing and researching. But you're saying you personally won't even go to the rink. My rink is open now and I went last week: 10 people on the ice, temperature checked upon walking in, masks on while on the ice, only locals can register for ice time, etc. That's pretty fair in terms of being responsible, in my opinion. And yes, I have all of the above as I mentioned earlier (severe asthma, severe allergies, costochondritis) and the mask on didn't and doesn't bother me. I guess my question is what are you doing otherwise? I know you aren't only sitting at home, so why does the rink scare you but things like the grocery store or the doctors office make you feel more safe? Think about it. Any minor procedure or walking past someone in a store or a haircut puts you just as much 'at risk', if not more, than in an ice rink. The woman who scrubs my face every 6 weeks - she wears a mask, gets tested weekly, etc. But I asked this the first time we got into these discussions. Who is to say that she doesn't have a client who unknowingly has it and then passes it on to everyone else throughout a whole week of work before she starts to have symptoms? There is some risk involved in EVERYTHING- yes. These coaches are not sitting at home worried. They are in the rink every day.

I live in literal ground zero of what they are calling the new epicenter, and I know how people are acting. I said months ago, before this even became a huge thing, that it would happen in Miami. But it all has to do with the lack of following precautions (Democrats, just as much) and being hellbent on the party lifestyle, having social time around the beach and restaurants and restaurant bars and taking their vacations here, and then going back to X, Y, and Z around family and friends who may be under the assumption that they've been doing their part the whole time. There are also a lot of people here who think that because they are healthy and work out religiously that they are above anything-- even carrying it on to other people who aren't acting so responsibly.

ETA: one more thing - @Tony Wheeler: airlines blocking off seats???? Yeah, some did for a while, but AA, United and others have now returned to flying at full capacity whenever possible. Southwest announced they will not even be cleaning armrests and seat belts between flights to shorten turnaround times. Take a mask, accept the risk, good luck.

That's why I didn't say all. I know JetBlue and Delta for sure have regulations in place for at least another month, and I'm sure they will extend them. And Miami is a major AA hub so I know quite a few flight attendants working straight through all of this - most flights are not anywhere near full. Southwest doesn't even fly here so I don't know what they are doing.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Good luck, all who choose to go to Skate America, you're going to need it.

Does the announcement suggest that the events will be run with spectators? Because that seems highly unlikely.

 

[skatfan]

Does the announcement suggest that the events will be run with spectators? Because that seems highly unlikely.

Does it? I don't see that from the announcement, but maybe so. Someone here crowing about the fact that the "not-Grand-Prix" is moving forward seems like she is planning on going.

 

[Vagabond]

@Tony Wheeler I think one can draw a distinction between figure skating training and figure skating competitions. In some jurisdictions, the former might be allowed as "essential exercise" but the latter might not be because it was not truly "essential" and required travel. This might not be the same for every country or local jurisdiction holding a competition, but I do see a parallel with horse racing. Earlier this year, some states and counties prohibited racing but allowed training, which might count as "essential exercise" for the training riders and was almost certainly necessary to keep the trainers' businesses operational.

There's been some discussion upthread about air travel, and here is my two cents on that. A friend of mine recently traveled through Seattle-Tacoma and three smaller airports. He said that SeaTac seemed as busy as ever, possibly because overland travel from Alaska through Canada to the Lower Forty-Eight isn't possible at the moment.

 

[tony]

@Tony Wheeler I think one can draw a distinction between figure skating training and figure skating competitions. In some jurisdictions, the former might be allowed as "essential exercise" but the latter might not be because it was not truly "essential" and required travel. This might not be the same for every country or local jurisdiction holding a competition, but I do see a parallel with horse racing. Earlier this year, some states and counties prohibited racing but allowed training, which might count as "essential exercise" for the training riders and was almost certainly necessary to keep the trainers' businesses operational.

That's not what I was asking, though. I was asking the poster why they specifically felt at risk being in an ice rink (not a competition, but for leisure) but not other things that involved being around people at a relatively lower risk..

 

[Vagabond]

That's not what I was asking, though. I was asking the poster why they specifically felt at risk being in an ice rink (not a competition, but for leisure) but not other things that involved being around people at a relatively lower risk..

But you said that you yourself did take the risk, and I think there's a difference between the risk you have taken and that which athletes competing at Skate America, for example, would be facing. That is the point I was addressing.

 

[ballettmaus]

Or you can think about it this way: which coach's life are you willing to sacrifice so you can watch some skating? Arantunyan? Wilson? Mishin? Lambiel? Haguenauer? Huth? Ade? How about Chafik Besseghier, who's already more vulnerable due to having had a collapsed lung, are you okay with him dying of this thing so you can watch skating? Because that's what you're saying is acceptable to you if you accept intercontinental travel for skating purposes. The risk of someone dying. And yes, for the record, once the surprise wore off I was pissed off with Brendan and Harley for travelling to France, and I still am.

I don't think we, the viewers or the ISU for that matter, are sacrificing anything. The ISU says there's a competition that skaters can go to. No one is forcing them to, though. So, anyone who goes will decide for themselves if they want to take the risk or not and anyone who goes is going voluntarily. (Or should be, I sure hope no federation is putting pressure on any skater to go).

In the end, people's health and lives are not worth sports entertainment. PERIOD.

Generally, I agree. But as long as it is voluntary and as long as they adhere to the proper precautions once they're back home, so that they don't infect anyone else should they be infected, isn't it for the athletes to decide if they think the risk is worth it?

I respect all that you are doing and researching. But you're saying you personally won't even go to the rink. My rink is open now and I went last week: 10 people on the ice, temperature checked upon walking in,

Which wouldn't catch anyone who is asymptomatic or anyone who doesn't show symptoms yet.

masks on while on the ice, only locals can register for ice time, etc. That's pretty fair in terms of being responsible, in my opinion. And yes, I have all of the above as I mentioned earlier (severe asthma, severe allergies, costochondritis) and the mask on didn't and doesn't bother me. I guess my question is what are you doing otherwise? I know you aren't only sitting at home, so why does the rink scare you but things like the grocery store or the doctors office make you feel more safe?

The risk increases with the time that you spend in an enclosed space and depending on your training time, on average you should be in a rink longer than in a grocery store.

That said, if skaters had a hotel for themselves like the basketball and NHL players then I think they would be fine. But I don't believe that is the case, so they will probably encounter other guests, ride with them up the elevator, walk with them down a hallway, in short, share the same air with other guests. If masks are required in the hotel then the risk is reduced and they should be fine, if not then that is an increased risk. Same if they venture outside of the hotel.

But, as I said, I believe every skater needs to weigh the risks and benefits for themselves. If they decide to go, then that's their decision and the only thing I ask of them is that they act responsibly upon their return.