Canadian Pairs 2018/2019 Season News and Updates

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Janef said:
Yes that is true. Some of the stronger partners are lifting themselves up.
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All the best pair girls do that and they all have very strong cores so they hold their body tight and do not move when they hit their position otherwise there is no way their partner could keep them up.(This from Lubov at an interview where interviewer spoke about her flexibility in lifts and asked her once she is up in the lift does she bend more to make the lift so special and she sounded horrified...OH NO you have to hit & no movement or you will bring the lift down)KMT2's lifts were so scary and I figured Michael should be pumping more iron but David Pelletier was explaining in a bad lift that Kirsten always wags her leg in that lift so Michael has to counter to keep the lift up. As far as throws Max Trankov(and others) have said it is really an assisted jump where the girl does a great deal of the work.
 
RoseRed said:
It's not just about the girl being strong though. You need to have really good body control and engage your core properly to hold the positions steadily and help your partner (I'm told). A woman having strong arms doesn't tell you if she is good at that.

I'm no technical expert, but I have seen a lot of people say that that is not a strength of Kirsten's (applies to the twist too). So I don't think it's fair to always make it all about Mike. A couple of times when they've had a lift issue, a pairs commentator has pointed out that she's the one who made a mistake going into it, though the people in competition threads (not on here) mostly assume automatically that it was him.

I'm not arguing here that Mike's good at lifts, to be clear.
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I agree that the girls are doing a lot of the work in the lifts. I do think Kirsten could use some help with the technique, but I don’t think it has to do with her being not fit enough. That’s all I meant.
 
RoseRed said:
I'm no technical expert, but I have seen a lot of people say that that is not a strength of Kirsten's (applies to the twist too). So I don't think it's fair to always make it all about Mike. A couple of times when they've had a lift issue, a pairs commentator has pointed out that she's the one who made a mistake going into it, though the people in competition threads (not on here) mostly assume automatically that it was him.

I'm not arguing here that Mike's good at lifts, to be clear.
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This.

She had wild lifts with Dylan, one of the strongest guys pairs has ever seen. Only his strength was able to stop the lifts from coming down.

Not bashing KMT in the least. Lots to love about her, but she herself isn't as physically strong as other pair girls to be able to stabilize lifts when they go up and to lock them into place. On the twist, my understanding is she doesn't have the core strength to do a full split then pull in quickly to rotate 3 times. This is why she 'rolls' her twist with both Dylan and Mike, which is beginning to rotate almost before she has left her partner's hands.

And, recall, even with a partner like Dylan, all their entrances were the easiest -- from the hip (OK one lift was hand to hand but immediately went into hip hold). Strange that this was the case with someone like Dylan as a partner. Mike is doing insanely-difficult lifts with her that never happened with Dylan, so I'm much more sympathetic to him than others.

Small example: watch the lift go up in the short, right here. Notice how her legs move forward on the way up and then move backward. That's core and upper body strength; you want your legs in a clean line with your upper bod or even back slightly arched so that legs are slightly behind you. Not the best comparison but you can see Peng's legs go up more behind her and then move quickly to center to stabilize the lift and center over the man.

Net net, love her with Mike and I'm not convinced in the least she wins worlds with the best pair guy available. This off-season though they need to think about what's required for them to take that next step. The opportunity is there with Montreal worlds as the best platform to compete for a medal. They are healthy going into the off-season. My advice to them: make your move.
 
Janef said:
Yes that is true. Some of the stronger partners are lifting themselves up.
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I have said this before, but a nationals level judge once told me Paige Lawrence put lifts up herself. She basically climbed on top of Rudi -- he just had to hold her. Beyond the standart for athleticism. This became more apparent when Rudi tried to repartner with a less athletic girl. Disastrous.
 
Rock2 said:
I have said this before, but a nationals level judge once told me Paige Lawrence put lifts up herself. She basically climbed on top of Rudi -- he just had to hold her. Beyond the standart for athleticism. This became more apparent when Rudi tried to repartner with a less athletic girl. Disastrous.
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Thx for your insight. More than meets the eye to the technical aspect
 
KMT and MM have massively improved since their first days together. As Rock2 says, their lifts are now insanely difficult, he completely rebuilt his lifting and good on him. I think they have an identity problem, I ask myself, what are they known for, and gee wiz gosh darn it, they're so bland. I think they need a repacking, they've tried rock girl which works the best, and romantic but their eyes do not connect they're thinking too hard, but they need something that they know they are Canada #1 now.
 
Rock2 said:
I have said this before, but a nationals level judge once told me Paige Lawrence put lifts up herself. She basically climbed on top of Rudi -- he just had to hold her. Beyond the standart for athleticism. This became more apparent when Rudi tried to repartner with a less athletic girl. Disastrous.
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Though back in the day, during the galas Rudi would lift Dylan. Dylan didn't attempt to lift Rudi.
 
chewy said:
KMT and MM have massively improved since their first days together. As Rock2 says, their lifts are now insanely difficult, he completely rebuilt his lifting and good on him. I think they have an identity problem...
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Someone very close to their training situation (I'm being purposely vague here) a few years ago said exactly that to me. They have no identity.

I think they could be packaged as a sweet wholesome couple. Very modern-day Notebook-y.
Romantic but less smouldering than V/M. High school sweethearts who are still together 10 years later.

I do like the idea of one program having a bit of an edge that's still a bit soft. The Sweet Dreams program would be an example. That was a good choice. They could also do something stately and classical. Regal, almost. Those are for short programs

As for the high-school sweetheart packaging, if I had the available cash flow I would pay for their choreo to skate to this, a warm indie number told from his point of view that connects them...yet has more energy and spirit than what we've seen from other pairs doing indie lately. I honestly think audiences would fall in love with them. Just my opinion. Sadly, Julie doesn't do indie, so the idea will never get off the ground.
 
Cant Skate said:
Hayleigh Bell is hardly what I'd call "less athletic". When she was partnered with Rudi she had an amazing physique.

https://www.instagram.com/hayleighbell/p/5LGFEYpNsO/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=tal76uuq55j7
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I know a lot of people with great abs who aren't athletic in the least. She does look quite fit there, though.

Anyway, there's no word choice that wins in these forums when describing women and anything related to their bodies. Point is, she's of lesser quality as a pairs skater than what Paige was. There are many possible dimensions to the word 'quality' but I'm not going to bother characterizing. The minute you try to get specific, and.... :lynch:
 
JasperBoy said:
Kirsten is 26. Michael is 27. I think it is too late to package them as high school sweethearts. Perky she might be, but she's ten years too old for that kind of image.
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I agree and we’ll see how her age plays out in the next couple years.
I see some junior talent coming up but they need to be paired with the ‘right partner’
 
I don't really see MT/M as a romantic, high school sweethearts-still together type team. They are too scrappy and kind of contemporary in style for that, IMO. Also, I can see why they never really took that approach since Seguin/Bilodeau were packaged more as a kind of old-school romantic team in most of their LPs, at least, and they were direct competitors. I don't really see them as an indie music type team, either. I would personally package them with more speed and grit, something like some of Brasseur/Eisler's early choreography back in the day, but more contemporary.
 
chewy said:
KMT and MM have massively improved since their first days together. As Rock2 says, their lifts are now insanely difficult, he completely rebuilt his lifting and good on him. I think they have an identity problem, I ask myself, what are they known for, and gee wiz gosh darn it, they're so bland. I think they need a repacking, they've tried rock girl which works the best, and romantic but their eyes do not connect they're thinking too hard, but they need something that they know they are Canada #1 now.
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What would you suggest the 'repacking' for M-T/M should look like with Luba/Charlie preparing to give them and the rest of the world additional pairs competition? The depth in pairs internationally is of course already deep and difficult. :COP: It will be an interesting quad with the Chinese and Russians scrambling for dominance, the U.S. teams continuing to blossom, and hopefully J/C managing their nerves and continuing to bring the heat, creativity, consistency and excitement.

It won't be too long now before we get to see how Luba + Charlie will equal out on the ice. With a taller partner in Charlie, combined with Luba's bendability, core strength, and insane fitness after touring with Cirque, I'm crossing my fingers to be amazed by some new creative lifts and beautiful throw jumps with height and distance. It would be so cool if Luba's Cirque tenure has also afforded her renewed airborne confidence that might help her ace technique, rotation and precise landings on her unassisted sbs jumps. :saint:
 
dramagrrl said:
I don't really see MT/M as a romantic, high school sweethearts-still together type team. They are too scrappy and kind of contemporary in style for that, IMO. Also, I can see why they never really took that approach since Seguin/Bilodeau were packaged more as a kind of old-school romantic team in most of their LPs, at least, and they were direct competitors. I don't really see them as an indie music type team, either. I would personally package them with more speed and grit, something like some of Brasseur/Eisler's early choreography back in the day, but more contemporary.
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Their FS from last year didn't look scrappy or gritty, and that was a very popular program for them. I also think they can't go too gritty, because Kirsten always looks so perky.

But I don't necessarily see indie for them either.
 
chewy said:
KMT and MM have massively improved since their first days together. As Rock2 says, their lifts are now insanely difficult, he completely rebuilt his lifting and good on him. I think they have an identity problem, I ask myself, what are they known for, and gee wiz gosh darn it, they're so bland. I think they need a repacking, they've tried rock girl which works the best, and romantic but their eyes do not connect they're thinking too hard, but they need something that they know they are Canada #1 now.
Click to expand...
They have speed but they need music or some dance training as someone mentioned previously to bring out a more sophisticated 👀 look (polish)is what I see. The guy has to bring some performance quality too.
 
RoseRed said:
Their FS from last year didn't look scrappy or gritty, and that was a very popular program for them. I also think they can't go too gritty, because Kirsten always looks so perky.

But I don't necessarily see indie for them either.
Click to expand...

Maybe M-T/M can do something like a good jazz program well. They skated to rock and to a pop ballad this season. Their very good fp last season and the season before was to Alain Lefevre's stirring piano composition, Un Ange Passe. Quite often, the right music selection and cut means everything to the success of a program, and to growing and evolving as partners. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhx_f1LY4h8

Here are some additional musical works by Alain Lefevre:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERZuINjlWmc Solitude
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-F6PD9lSFM Tendresse - Jour de Pluie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iKoXEnRTw8 Interprete Le chemin au studio 12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_swBm4865q0 Paris de mes souvenirs (piano & violin)

But perhaps these mostly piano pieces by Lefevre are too similar to the mood and theme of Un Ange Passe. I think it's cool though when skaters can find unusual and lesser known music that's preferably related to their cultural/ country backgrounds. I was not familiar with Lefevre's music before hearing Un Ange Passe. I wish we would see more of this kind of cultural music selection, rather than mostly adherence to Western or U.S.-centric music choices.

Here's work by another Canadian pianist, Andre Mathieu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRAh533yY-c Ete Canadien
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD3B6ndrkxE Concerto de Quebec
I think the latter one above is quite nice and a bit different from Lefevre's work, especially the unexpected way the sound changes dramatically toward the end. It would be cool if M-T/M found something for either their sp or fp that had some Canadian flavor for Montreal Worlds. :)

Here's jazz piano by Ruben Gonzalez:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oWhz0G4-Tg Siboney
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE4KVDH_5ok El Cumbanchero

Or a classic Latin flavor selection, once used by MKwan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNqtCsCqCD8 Concierto de Aranjuez
 
Its really nice there is a place for ppl to speculate what they think is true. Unfortunately, alot of times there is incorrect information on here because it is simply just speculation. No one knows the back story to Hayleigh and Rudi. What had transpired for either of them while they were searching for partners. They only had two months together before they had to prove themselves. They didn't have time as a team to gel on the ice the way they wanted to but they were great friends and remain great friends. It was nice someone mentioned Hayleigh as a pair girl and her abilities vrs 9 years of Rudi with his past partner. Be kind friends....you never know who is reading this and who you are hurting.
 
aftershocks said:
Maybe M-T/M can do something like a good jazz program well. They skated to rock and to a pop ballad this season. Their very good fp last season and the season before was to Alain Lefevre's stirring piano composition, Un Ange Passe. Quite often, the right music selection and cut means everything to the success of a program, and to growing and evolving as partners. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhx_f1LY4h8

Here are some additional musical works by Alain Lefevre:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERZuINjlWmc Solitude
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-F6PD9lSFM Tendresse - Jour de Pluie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iKoXEnRTw8 Interprete Le chemin au studio 12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_swBm4865q0 Paris de mes souvenirs (piano & violin)

But perhaps these mostly piano pieces by Lefevre are too similar to the mood and theme of Un Ange Passe. I think it's cool though when skaters can find unusual and lesser known music that's preferably related to their cultural/ country backgrounds. I was not familiar with Lefevre's music before hearing Un Ange Passe. I wish we would see more of this kind of cultural music selection, rather than mostly adherence to Western or U.S.-centric music choices.

Here's work by another Canadian pianist, Andre Mathieu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRAh533yY-c Ete Canadien
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD3B6ndrkxE Concerto de Quebec
I think the latter one above is quite nice and a bit different from Lefevre's work, especially the unexpected way the sound changes dramatically toward the end. It would be cool if M-T/M found something for either their sp or fp that had some Canadian flavor for Montreal Worlds. :)

Here's jazz piano by Ruben Gonzalez:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oWhz0G4-Tg Siboney
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE4KVDH_5ok El Cumbanchero

Or a classic Latin flavor selection, once used by MKwan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNqtCsCqCD8 Concierto de Aranjuez
Click to expand...

They are really not a classical team. The first year together they did cell block tango which was choreography done I believe for KMT & Dylan. It suited KMT really well but Michael looked like he was in pain the whole time so it fell flat. Michael has super improved in performance and confidence so I think they would be able to do character programs.
I loved the Siboney above by Ruben Gonzalez. Not sure if it would work for KMT2 but it is great.
 
Carol Lane and co. are under utilized IMHO. I think they have done a great job in helping find an identity for G/P who are not the traditional classic dance couple. I still remember the great Dracula program they did for Paige and Rudi.
 
Last edited:
The biggest problem in all of pairs is that the Free Program time is shorter. It eliminated one element but more importantly eliminated character development time. Gauthier referred to this in an interview mid season about all teams.

When teams don't have that one huge element as in "wait for their twist" (Russians) or "big throw" (Chinese) or "killer lift" (Moscovitch) they have to develop a two skating as one pair profile and then unison is a feature and choreography is essential. When I say that MTM2 don't have an identity, that is indeed part of it. But then they haven't had an iconic program either. Everything is safe. Honestly I'd say for MTM2 to go for a warhorse. Just beat the judges over the head with it.
 
Last edited:
aftershocks said:
Maybe M-T/M can do something like a good jazz program well. They skated to rock and to a pop ballad this season. Their very good fp last season and the season before was to Alain Lefevre's stirring piano composition, Un Ange Passe. Quite often, the right music selection and cut means everything to the success of a program, and to growing and evolving as partners. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhx_f1LY4h8

Here are some additional musical works by Alain Lefevre:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERZuINjlWmc Solitude
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-F6PD9lSFM Tendresse - Jour de Pluie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iKoXEnRTw8 Interprete Le chemin au studio 12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_swBm4865q0 Paris de mes souvenirs (piano & violin)

But perhaps these mostly piano pieces by Lefevre are too similar to the mood and theme of Un Ange Passe. I think it's cool though when skaters can find unusual and lesser known music that's preferably related to their cultural/ country backgrounds. I was not familiar with Lefevre's music before hearing Un Ange Passe. I wish we would see more of this kind of cultural music selection, rather than mostly adherence to Western or U.S.-centric music choices.

Here's work by another Canadian pianist, Andre Mathieu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRAh533yY-c Ete Canadien
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD3B6ndrkxE Concerto de Quebec
I think the latter one above is quite nice and a bit different from Lefevre's work, especially the unexpected way the sound changes dramatically toward the end. It would be cool if M-T/M found something for either their sp or fp that had some Canadian flavor for Montreal Worlds. :)

Here's jazz piano by Ruben Gonzalez:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oWhz0G4-Tg Siboney
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE4KVDH_5ok El Cumbanchero

Or a classic Latin flavor selection, once used by MKwan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNqtCsCqCD8 Concierto de Aranjuez
Click to expand...
I like the jazzy look on them (sweet dreams) type style or Latin style. That might
Help them stand out
 
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