U.S. Ladies [#21]: Wrapped Up with a Neat Little BOW

[Tavi]

I thought Ting was wonderful today!

 

[Frida80]

Now the question is will she move up to seniors. Considering we have a lack of depth in seniors and she just scored 180, she'll probably consider it. But if she doesn't, she'd be looking at some easy medals on the JGP. Her consistency was really improved over the season. Her jumps are beautiful. She just needs to work on her spins.

 

[DreamSkates]

Yikes with a Russian junior lady just landing 2 quads and her free program was 153+ points....the US ladies are lagging even further behind. I wonder what coaches are noticing, thinking, and telling their students who want to become future elite skaters and stand on an international podium.

 

[DreamSkates]

Now the question is will she move up to seniors. Considering we have a lack of depth in seniors and she just scored 180, she'll probably consider it. But if she doesn't, she'd be looking at some easy medals on the JGP. Her consistency was really improved over the season. Her jumps are beautiful. She just needs to work on her spins.

Easy medals? Check out Trusova's LP score of 153+. http://web.icenetwork.com/home

 

[ZilphaK]

I wonder what coaches are noticing, thinking, and telling their students who want to become future elite skaters and stand on an international podium.

At this point, I'm guessing any coach with international aspirations is looking at their 5-year-olds in Basic Skills and wondering how to sell parents on putting lots of time and money early-on into a sport that isn't very popular in the US, all while the cry in youth sports has lately been, "Don't specialize in a sport until you're out of middle school." As a coach, I'd be wondering how to offer more group classes through higher levels to keep skating affordable longer and keep athletically talented kids in long enough to grow their passion for competition and to figure out which ones have the goods to go all the way, meaning past Nationals, while not bankrupting the 99% of "for fun" skaters.

 

[smarts1]

Sigh, it's going to be a low year in 2018-2019, definitely lacking any stars. Time to rebuild for USFS.

I'm sure going to miss Ashley and Gracie dearly. If Mirai retires, despite her lack of starpower beyond the skating, she's a star in our hearts. I'll miss her.

If this is the end of Ashley's incredible career (and it really looks like it is), I'm still sad about how it ended for her.

Agree with this, and I would venture to say even longer than that... I've been saying this for a couple seasons now. With likely Ashley and Gracie out going forward, there is just no one currently in the U.S. ladies who can compete internationally with the Japanese and Russian ladies (and they're churning out skater after skater in Russia somehow). The last time any U.S. lady was on a junior worlds podium was in 2012 and that was Gracie. One year and two years before that was Agnes. And before her was Caroline, Rachael Flatt, Ashley, and Mirai for a number of years.

They seemed to put all their eggs on Bradie this year, and while she is strong technically, she isn't going to move up in the standings without better programs, artistry, musicality, etc. Karen is someone who could challenge the Japanese and Russians but has dealt with nerves, injuries, and boot issues for a while now unfortunately.

Ting does look somewhat promising-- has some decent jump technique with an artistic flair. She will likely be a force to be reckoned with going forward among the U.S. ladies as long as she stays healthy.

 

[Frida80]

Easy medals? Check out Trusova's LP score of 153+. http://web.icenetwork.com/home

Only two Russians would be allowed in a JGP competition.

US juniors normally improve a lot in their second year. With some work on her spins and more consistency, I see now problem with her scoring around 190+ next year.

 

[Frida80]

Yikes with a Russian junior lady just landing 2 quads and her free program was 153+ points....the US ladies are lagging even further behind. I wonder what coaches are noticing, thinking, and telling their students who want to become future elite skaters and stand on an international podium.

What I hope they’re doing is telling their student “See, she can do it! So can you!”

The reason that no one but Miki Ando landed a quad isn’t because no one could, it’s because no one committed to doing it. They played it safe and either didn’t train it or didn’t attempt it.

Mirai was clearly interested in landing a 3A very young, in fact she personally asked Mao how to land it when Mirai was just 13. So why didn’t she have one? Because her coaches didn’t want to take the risk or the challenge.

Many coaches don’t want to take the risk. Eteri has forced all these “play it safe” coaches out of their comfort zones. I see lots of girls attempting 4S and 4T online just for fun, but not seriously. Now girls will demand that their coaches teach them 3A and quads.

Finally, we’re advancing jumps in ladies too.

 

[Wyliefan]

Ting does look somewhat promising-- has some decent jump technique with an artistic flair. She will likely be a force to be reckoned with going forward among the U.S. ladies as long as she stays healthy.

I hope so. And wasn't Starr working on a 3A?

 

[Frida80]

I hope so. And wasn't Starr working on a 3A?

Both Starr and Alyssa are working on their 3A and quads.

 

[Wyliefan]

Do you mean Alysa Liu?

 

[smarts1]

I hope so. And wasn't Starr working on a 3A?

As much as I like Starr, I just don't see her holding up going forward-- her lutz and flip technique need some serious reworking in order to be competitive on an international level.

 

[alchemy void]

Cui is fabulous. 7th at Junior Worlds, in THIS field, is a fantastic result.

I also love she isn't going the generic USA princess route, either. The power, speed, and ice coverage are all exceptional, not to mention the quality in the jumps. The quality of the 2axel-3toe was incredible, and being able to add in the 3flip-1loop-3sal in the second half of the program is a good sign. She had some nice performance quality, too, especially in the SP.

The potential is there for her to be competitive with the Russians and Japanese on the international stage.

Needless to say, I'm definitely a fan.

 

[Tinami Amori]

As much as I like Starr, I just don't see her holding up going forward-- her lutz and flip technique need some serious reworking in order to be competitive on an international level.

and a bit of work on her posture, to be exact neck and shoulders position. sometimes when she skates it looks like her head is growing right out her shoulder line, without a neck. maybe she can arch her back more, and keep her head up ..

 

[Tavi]

Okay, I’m mentioning this here because it relates to the discussion above about whether any US ladies can be competitive in the near future:

Given that Trusova landed both quads in her FS today and earned TES almost 11 points higher than Zagitova, I’m really interested to see what changes the ISU decides on at their next meeting.

Are we going to see the beginnings of a quad race in women, now?

Even if the ISU lowers the base value for quads, limits backloading and increases PCS factoring, given how judges seem to award PCS and GOE automatically in tandem with high TES programs, I’m wondering how much of a difference it will make, and what the sport will look like in 10 years.

 

[Coco]

What Trusova did today is truly impressive so I don't want to pour a bucket of cold water on it, but I don't think we have to worry about a quad race in the ladies field until we see a post growth spurt woman landing quads.

 

[Vagabond]

Holy Moly!!!!! with Trusova now scoring a free skate score that will take down Zagitova.

Zagitova?

She was so February.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

^^^^ HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA LOL....

 

[olympic]

It's like the US is 3 seasons behind the Russian ladies. Ting's program would've had all of us saying 'here comes the US threat' if it were the last olympic cycle and she may have been medal competitive on the junior level. But, it seems like US ladies make nice gains, only to be left w/ a mouthful of dust as the Russians plow ahead.

Still, I am excited for Ting Cui. It's great to see Ting be able to throw a 3-1-3 in her LP a couple of elements after missing it earlier and do 'Tano jumps left, right and center. Good musicality.

 

[barbk]

Cui is fabulous. 7th at Junior Worlds, in THIS field, is a fantastic result.

I also love she isn't going the generic USA princess route, either. The power, speed, and ice coverage are all exceptional, not to mention the quality in the jumps. The quality of the 2axel-3toe was incredible, and being able to add in the 3flip-1loop-3sal in the second half of the program is a good sign. She had some nice performance quality, too, especially in the SP.

The potential is there for her to be competitive with the Russians and Japanese on the international stage.

Needless to say, I'm definitely a fan.

Well, I would have said the same thing about Gracie Gold ... until she, too, caught the princess bug.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

What Trusova did today is truly impressive so I don't want to pour a bucket of cold water on it, but I don't think we have to worry about a quad race in the ladies field until we see a post growth spurt woman landing quads.

I don't think growth spurt mattters. All they need to be is 15, have 3A combos and quads; they win. Same, like the men.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

I don't think growth spurt mattters. All they need to be is 15, have 3A combos and quads; they win. Same, like the men.

If this was so easy why wasn’t it done till now, you say as if it happening all around you.

 

[olympic]

What Trusova did today is truly impressive so I don't want to pour a bucket of cold water on it, but I don't think we have to worry about a quad race in the ladies field until we see a post growth spurt woman landing quads.

I was thinking today that while Trusova accomplished something incredible, would a post pubescent woman be able to do it?

 

[Jammers]

Lets see Trusova land those quads at 16,17 when she actually has hips then i will be a believer. Like Frank Carroll once said girls her age and build rotate can like a bat out of hell that older ladies can't when they get older and get mature bodies.

 

[Sylvia]

ICYMI, I started a separate GSD thread for Trusova's quad accomplishments: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...figure-skater-to-land-two-quads-video.103602/

Ting Cui was invited to skate in the Junior Worlds Gala Exhibition ("Skinny Love" is the correct title of her song ): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_v4slvLozA

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

If this was so easy why wasn’t it done till now, you say as if it happening all around you.

No, I realize she's the first doing this incredible thing. She's shown it could be done. LIke Jin Boyang in 2015. Now others wil start to appear. If scoring remains more or less the same quads and 3A's will determine the score. That they have hips or post pubescent won't matter. If they are 15 and do these elements they win.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

Lets see Trusova land those quads at 16,17 when she actually has hips then i will be a believer. Like Frank Carroll once said girls her age and build rotate can like a bat out of hell that older ladies can't when they get older and get mature bodies.

You have been talking about puberty monster catching Russian skaters for a long time, they survived won medals and moved on. On the other hand, American skaters have disappeared. The fact is Trusova is rotating them at 13 and no other women/girl has done two different quads in a single program. Even now most skaters are not landing their freaking triples, how do you expect them to jump quads.

No, I realize she's the first doing this incredible thing. She's shown it could be done. LIke Jin Boyang in 2015. Now others wil start to appear. If scoring remains more or less the same quads and 3A's will determine the score. That they have hips or post pubescent won't matter. If they are 15 and do these elements they win.

Ryan Bradley did the first quad Lutz, it took some time for people like Boyang to come along, so I think Trusova may have sometime on her hand.

 

[haribobo]

They seemed to put all their eggs on Bradie this year, and while she is strong technically, she isn't going to move up in the standings without better programs, artistry, musicality, etc. Karen is someone who could challenge the Japanese and Russians but has dealt with nerves, injuries, and boot issues for a while now unfortunately.

Bradie rose to the top on her own merits more than anyone putting eggs on her. Many of us would like to see her get more interesting programs but if she sticks around and continues to make World teams and show consistency, I think her PCS will rise whether or not her programs improve. What has mostly held her back until now is her back injuries 2 years in a row prior to this one.

A skater pointed out to me that Karen's jump technique is a bit dodgy and I think that might be the cause of her boot issues and inconsistency, rather than nerves. I love her skating and hope it can get sorted out. If Mirai sticks around another year or 2 and builds some consistency with her 3ax she will do well.

Alysa, Pooja, Ting, and Hanna are all very talented and capable of greatness. I hope we don't wait too long to get them into senior events. Pooja and Ting are ready IMO.

It is hard to watch Trusova and Kostornaia and not get spooked, but so many of them start out gangbusters and then turn into Lipnitskaya's. In many ways, a Kaori to me is scarier because she is past puberty and still that good. Konstantinova is interesting and I look forward to seeing her on senior GP. I wonder if Zag and Med will keep going full steam ahead or will they get out before Trusova outquads them? They have both achieved so much already...

 

[jlai]

You have been talking about puberty monster catching Russian skaters for a long time, they survived won medals and moved on. On the other hand, American skaters have disappeared. The fact is Trusova is rotating them at 13 and no other women/girl has done two different quads in a single program. Even now most skaters are not landing their freaking triples, how do you expect them to jump quads.


Ryan Bradley did the first quad Lutz, it took some time for people like Boyang to come along, so I think Trusova may have sometime on her hand.

American skaters disappeared to college not necessarily injuries

 

[haribobo]

You have been talking about puberty monster catching Russian skaters for a long time, they survived won medals and moved on. On the other hand, American skaters have disappeared.

Yes, some of them stay small through puberty like Med and continue success. Pogorilaya and Leonova are two other skaters who were able to generally maintain a high level of skating through the years even though they aren't as tiny. Tuktamysheva and Radionova are sinking like a stone even though they still land many jumps. Skaters who totally fell off after a while for whatever reason- Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, Proklova, Gosviani, Korobeinikova, Biryukova, Shelepen, Agafonova, Ovcharova, Gerboldt, Martinova.

I think with Russia, they just turn out so many phenoms that a few of them are bound to hold it together into the senior level.

Japan seems to have significantly less flameouts for whatever reason, and were it not for Med, Zag, and Osmond, would be winning everything in sight between Wakaba, Satoko, and Kaori. Even the Shiraiwa's and Matsuda's tend to acquit themselves nicely in international competition.

USA over the years has lost or almost lost the following promising who seemingly had more potential than their record of international results showed - Polina, Tyler Pierce, Emily Chan, Vivian Le, Christina Gao, Angela Maxwell, Agnes Zawadzki, Yasmin Siraj, Katarina Kulgeyko, Alexe Gilles, Melissa Bulanhagui, Nina Jiang, Katrina Hacker, Kristine Musademba, Britney Rizo, Megan Oster, Deedee Leng... some of these grew too much, switched countries, got injured, or just decided money and time was better spent elsewhere.

Over that time, we were able to see Ashley Wagner, Rachael Flatt, and Alissa Czisny achieve all the success their talent could bring them. Caroline Zhang sort of flamed out results-wise but I think she actually skated up to her potential also. Mirai and Gracie at times lived up to their potential and other times did not, but as skaters who "had it all", dealt admirably with the pressure most of the time for years on end.

If I am USFS, I am thinking seriously about getting Pooja and Ting to Skate America this fall, because this "wait your turn after years losing to Russians on JGP series" is not a great strategy. Often times all that does is hold their SB scores down, wasting their best years in juniors. By the time they get to seniors they are often lacking the confidence from being not quite good enough too many years in a row and feel like 8th at Nationals as the best they can do. We saw our SA host pick win Nationals this year and suddenly she is top 8 in the World. Had we given Courtney Hicks or Caroline Zhang Skate America, its hard to imagine Bradie still being allowed the same status/PCS to win Nationals. Maybe she'd come 4th or 5th behind Ashley and Mariah instead...and I'm not saying don't give Court or Caro the spots they earn, but they don't need SA if they are getting the scores on the senior B circuit to put them high on the SB list.

If every year we push out the 2 most promising junior skaters from the previous Nationals to SA, whether or not they have achieved JGP success or senior Nationals success, that allows the best chance for mixing it up. Deanna Stellato, Tara Lipinski, Sasha Cohen, Michelle Kwan, Gracie Gold, Polina Edmunds, and Emily Hughes all came out gangbusters in seniors basically right away without toiling for ages in juniors. Honestly there is something to be said for letting the talent shine. They have all been to enough regionals and sectionals comps to deal with the pressure of a Skate America.