U.S. Men 2023-24 news & updates

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Allskate

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I can see that this may have been the motivation but I don't think coming in last place at Skate China is necessarily building the body of work that he is going to need.
I don't think anyone said that it was. And I'm pretty sure that a fortuneteller didn't tell him that he would have those boot problems and come in last at this competition. ;) It's a shame because Mark said he saw practice footage before the boot problems and Lucas was skating brilliantly, including a quad toe/triple toe combo. In any event, his team said that they were looking for him to have experience as a senior, not a particular body of work or medals. Going into this season, Lukas said that people could expect a lot of hard work, plenty of mistakes, and a lot of learning moments. So, it seems that his expectations were realistic - and met.

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing him skate as a senior at Nationals. I think he is a lovely skater. He may or may not ever have consistent quads. But, that doesn't mean I won't enjoy his skating.

Does he always do his quad-toes with his arms over his head? Perhaps changing that would help? Or is it already an entrenched habit for him to do toe jumps that way?
 

thvu

Usova's Apprentice
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Camden’s Olympic season started off typically, a mess. He was 14th at Finlandia. He ended it with a World Small Medal. Broussard made a calculated decision to move up. We don’t even know how that’s played out yet - it’s still so early. Let’s stop prematurely judging him.

Like, come on. :rolleyes:
 

Willin

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I'm also not too worried about Lucas's result. Cup of China is notoriously rough for US skaters (Ashley talks about people not wanting to go due to the jetlag), and to have that tied to your Senior GP debut where you're also debuting big elements I'd be a little shocked if it wasn't at least a little messy. He's so young it's probably better to get him any experience - he'll learn from it good or bad.
 

Sylvia

TBD
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81,150
Last week:
The first 2 Senior men's qualifying spots for 2024 Nationals go to the top 2 finishers in the Eastern Sectional that just finished:
Will Annis 200.31
Daniel Samohin 195.14 (last competed for ISR at CS Golden Spin in Dec. 2021; he was the 2013 U.S. Novice Men's pewter medalist :))
===
Lucas Altieri 191.11
Emmanuel Savary 190.00
Philip Baker 189.09
Pacific Coast Senior Men's event finished late last night in Tacoma, WA (yes, it was a rollercoaster of emotions for those of us watching & posting in the competition play-by-play thread) - top 2 qualified for Nationals in a deep field:
Goku Endo 226.88
Yaroslav Paniot 218.45
===
Kai Kovar 208.09 [currently #1 "next best national score"]
Michael Xie 198.84 [#2]
Samuel Mindra 197.76 [#3]
Daniil Murzin 193.45
Paul Yeung 189.48

3 spots TBD by "next best national score" after next week's Midwestern Sectional (Tomoki Hiwatashi, Maxim Zharkov and Joseph Klein are the 3 who scored over 200 points in a NQS comp.).

Worlds 2024 TES minimum scores attained (34 /64) by 11 U.S. men to date:
Lucas BROUSSARDUSAISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 202321/09/202335.25SISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 202322/09/202371.35S
Jason BROWNUSAISU World Championships 202323/03/202347.83SISU World Championships 202325/03/202390.03S
Goku ENDOUSA2023 Kings Cup International06/10/202340.38S2023 Kings Cup International07/10/202380.36S
Tomoki HIWATASHIUSAISU CS Budapest Trophy 202313/10/202336.58SISU CS Budapest Trophy 202315/10/202382.37S
Liam KAPEIKISUSAISU CS IceChallenge 202211/11/202240.64SISU GP Skate Canada International 202328/10/202375.36S
Jimmy MAUSAISU Four Continents Championships 202309/02/202347.39SISU CS U.S. International FS Classic 202214/09/202277.79S
Ilia MALININUSAISU World Team Trophy 202313/04/202362.07SISU GP Skate America 202321/10/2023118.64S
Maxim NAUMOVUSAISU CS Budapest Trophy 202214/10/202247.01SISU CS Warsaw Cup 202219/11/202269.04S
Yaroslav PANIOTUSA2023 Kings Cup International06/10/202350.87S2023 Kings Cup International07/10/202364.82S
Camden PULKINENUSAISU CS 54th Golden Spin of Zagreb 202208/12/202245.20SISU CS 54th Golden Spin of Zagreb 202210/12/202277.88S
Andrew TORGASHEVUSAISU CS Lombardia Trophy 202308/09/202346.91SISU GP Skate America 202321/10/202375.34S

Note: I removed 3 men who have the Worlds minimums: Joonsoo Kim (has started medical school at Johns Hopkins University, Eric Sjoberg (withdrew :( from the Pacific Coast Sectional Singles Final) and Dinh Tran (did not enter 2023-24 qualifying season).


Has at least one Worlds minimum score and both 4CC minimums (28 / 46):
William ANNISUSA2023 Cranberry Cup International12/08/202341.63S2023 Cranberry Cup International13/08/202356.16S
Daniel MARTYNOVUSAISU CS Warsaw Cup 202217/11/202237.26SISU CS Warsaw Cup 202219/11/202261.29S
Maxim ZHARKOVUSA2022 Cranberry International13/08/202240.26S2023 Cranberry Cup International13/08/202363.82S

Has both 4CC minimums (28 / 46):
Joseph KLEINUSA2023 Cranberry Cup International12/08/202330.43S2022 Cranberry International14/08/202259.26S
Kai KOVARUSA2023 Kings Cup International06/10/202333.59S2023 Kings Cup International07/10/202356.45S
Samuel MINDRAUSA2023 Kings Cup International06/10/202333.30S2023 Kings Cup International07/10/202360.01S
Daniil MURZINUSA2023 Cranberry Cup International12/08/202332.21S2023 Cranberry Cup International13/08/202361.59S

Has 1 4CC minimum score:
Paul YEUNGUSA2022 Philadelphia Summer International05/08/202231.11S2022 Philadelphia Summer International07/08/202241.39S
 
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Jammers

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I definitely think Lucas has a shot at making the US world team early next

I don't understand why Lucas (and his team) felt that he should move up to Seniors this year without first having mastered the Junior level (he bombed at Jr. Worlds last year). He does not have the technical content yet to compete with the Seniors and I feel that he would have been more competitive on the Junior circuit this year. I don't know why his team are trying to rush his development. Sometimes maturation in skating takes time and I just don't think that Lucas is ready for the Senior level yet.
At first i was all for Lucas moving up since besides Ilia the US Men are not very good right now and the final spots for the 2026 Olympic team are up for grabs but maybe he should have stayed in Juniors for one more year. He is still skating as a Senior at Nationals and if he somehow got on the podium he could still go to Senior Worlds and get that experience. I dread what happens if Jason retires before 2026 because that 3rd spot is gone for sure.
 

Sylvia

TBD
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As a senior this season, Lucas is (likely) looking at … not placing in the top ten at Senior Nationals. Will he get any international assignments next season (if this is the case)?
Good Luck to the guy who placed 11th in his Senior national debut at 2023 Nationals who is having a GREAT season so far and will compete in his second CS Warsaw Cup in 2 years this week! :D Best wishes to Jason, too, of course! :)

ETA:
Will he have to qualify for the following Nationals through Regionals and Sectionals?
FYI "Regionals" (all 9 of them) no longer exist as a separate qualifying competition for advancement to one of the 3 Sectionals (see my post #214 above for the top results of the first 2 Sectional Singles Finals). And there's nothing wrong or shameful about having to qualify for Nationals? Broussard was fortunate to get a bye this year due to the timing of his Cup of China GP assignment (the Pacific Coast Senior Men's field already was deep enough without him!).
 
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Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
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Also worth noting that Andrew Torgashev had to qualify for nationals last year through sectionals and made the worlds team, so yeah, there's nothing wrong with qualifying that way. A ticket to nats is a ticket to nats.
 

ice coverage

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Old stories - but I think both Johnny Weir (2004) and Rudy Galindo (1996) had to qualify for the Nationals and then won the title! :giggle:

And Max Aaron had to qualify for 2013 Nationals before winning the U.S. title there. :)

Also worth noting that Andrew Torgashev had to qualify for nationals last year through sectionals and made the worlds team, so yeah, there's nothing wrong with qualifying that way. A ticket to nats is a ticket to nats.

Plus before earning the pewter medal at 2023 Nationals, Maxim Naumov first had to qualify via Eastern Sectionals (where he won the gold over Torgashev).
 

mtnskater

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I’m excited Daniel Martynov will get an opportunity at Warsaw Cup this week. Best of luck to him. Wonder if he will try a quad since he said he is working on it!? His triple axel has been very reliable this season. Not much turn around time to the Junior Grand Prix Final.

And gooooo Jason!!! Always a thrill for me whenever he competes or skates.

So much skating to watch this week between sectionals, Warsaw Cup Challenger and Grand Prix Espoo.
 

Theatregirl1122

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30,200
How about coming in 1st place at two of the Junior Grand Prix competitions and then medaling again at the Junior Grand Prix final and then capping that off with a win at the Junior World Championships! I think that would set up Lucas a lot better and help build that "body of work" that he is going to need.

You mean the exact "body of work" Ilia Malinin had when he was not sent to the Olympics?
 

Karen-W

How long do we have to wait for GP assignments?
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You mean the exact "body of work" Ilia Malinin had when he was not sent to the Olympics?
Well, the GPF/JGPF was cancelled the Olympic season, so Ilia didn't have a JGPF medal, but yeah, his situation proved that skaters need to start building their "body of work" at least 1-2 seasons before the Olympic season or risk being left at home.
 

Sylvia

TBD
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81,150
The 9 projected Men's qualifiers via Sectionals (listed by total score) are:

M1 Tomoki Hiwatashi 249.11 (eta) landed 4T+3T, 4T & 3A+2A in his FS (161.94) at Mids today; Hiroaki Sato was with him
P1 Goku Endo 226.88
P2 Yaroslav Paniot 218.45
P3 Kai Kovar 208.09
E1 Will Annis 200.31
P4 Michael Xie 198.84
M2 Joseph Klein 198.24
P5 Samuel Mindra 197.76
E2 Daniel Samohin 195.14

ETA: Top 2 finishers from each Sectional + the 3 "next best national scores" - Kovar, Xie, Mindra :).
 
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Lacey

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This is sort of a repeat of what I posted in the Warsaw Cup write up, but since I thought it might be buried there with the comp finished, I am bringing it over here too.

Some there liked Jason Brown's fall comp skating, some didn't. He came from a 4th in the short to a 2nd in the long and a third place finish overall. I definitely felt Jason's finish at Warsaw Cup last week was fine--short a wee bit shaky, long fabulous!

I thought Jason was the only one of the top four who had beauty and style. He is so artistic he makes me cry. His jumps were fine for this point in the season, and he skated WONDERFULLY! Some of the other skaters were jump, ump, jump, ump, BLAH BLAH. Even Jason's arms, hands, legs--all had expression. His footwork was magic as usual. He looked at the audience to bring them in, to make them part of the fun. Jason's whole long program was full of authentic skating charm, with some good and some great jumps thrown in for a complete package. Congratulations to him on a great skate.

If I am not mistaken, Jason has a bye to US Nats this winter because of his finish last season, but I am sorry to say I don't know what other comps he will do before US Nats. Keep an eye out for him!
 
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Mell

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This is sort of a repeat of what I posted in the Warsaw Cup write up, but since I thought it might be buried there with the comp finished, I am bringing it over here too.

Some there liked Jason Brown's fall comp skating, some didn't. He came from a 4th in the short to a 2nd in the long and a third place finish overall. I definitely felt Jason's finish at Warsaw Cup last week was fine--short a wee bit shaky, long fabulous!

I thought Jason was the only one of the top four who had beauty and style. He is so artistic he makes me cry. His jumps were fine for this point in the season, and he skated WONDERFULLY! Some of the other skaters were jump, ump, jump, ump, BLAH BLAH. Even Jason's arms, hands, legs--all had expression. His footwork was magic as usual. He looked at the audience to bring them in, to make them part of the fun. Jason's whole long program was full of authentic skating charm, with some good and some great jumps thrown in for a complete package. Congratulations to him on a great skate.

If I am not mistaken, Jason has a bye to US Nats this winter because of his finish last season, but I am sorry to say I don't know what other comps he will do before US Nats. Keep an eye out for him!
Figure skating is still a sport, so lets treat it like that.
But if the only thing you care about is how "beautifuly" somebody glides across the ice and everything else is "blah blah" for you - solo ice dance exists. Maybe Brown and his fans should move there 🤷‍♀️
 

thvu

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Figure skating is still a sport, so lets treat it like that.
But if the only thing you care about is how "beautifuly" somebody glides across the ice and everything else is "blah blah" for you - solo ice dance exists. Maybe Brown and his fans should move there 🤷‍♀️
Or maybe you should read the rulebook instead of being ignorantly insulting to posters.
 

Trillian

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Or maybe you should read the rulebook instead of being ignorantly insulting to posters.

I know every skater with a particularly devoted fan base will also attract haters who argue that they’re overscored, but it’s interesting to me that so much of the criticism of Jason ends up being “this shouldn’t even be allowed to happen.” We get arguments that he should change disciplines or just retire, on the basis that his choices regarding program content or his current approach to competition are somehow unacceptable - even though everything he’s doing is completely within the rules. It’s almost like some people aren’t just mad that he can still beat some of their faves, they’re upset that he’s challenging the traditional ideas of how success and progress are defined in the sport.

Anyway, my main takeaway from Warsaw Cup was that it was nice to see him, I like both of the programs a lot, and he’s got quite a bit of work to do before nationals.
 

Sylvia

TBD
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81,150
If I am not mistaken, Jason has a bye to US Nats this winter because of his finish last season, but I am sorry to say I don't know what other comps he will do before US Nats. Keep an eye out for him!
Yes, Jason is one of 9 senior men with byes to 2024 Nationals: Malinin, Brown, Torgashev, Naumov, Ma (top 5 at Nationals last year) + Broussard, Pulkinen, Martynov, Kapeikis.

AFAIK, Warsaw Cup was Jason's only planned competition before 2024 Nationals (one more than he did last year ;)).

I've just posted links to Jason's Warsaw Cup videos in his fan thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...roll-uber-thread-2.98882/page-34#post-6507267
 

Sylvia

TBD
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Re-posting from the U.S. Sectionals competition thread in Kiss & Cry:
Junior Men:
Where did THIS Taira Shinohara come from??? Landed three triple axels over the event. Great!! Is Denise a new coach for him? Last time I saw him he was a tiny thing. Now he’s 17 and looking mature.
Taira has been with Jeremy Allen, Denise Myers and Tommy Steenberg for as long as I can remember. He posted in September that he successfully landed his 3A for the first time in competition (Greater Chicagoland Fall Invitational which was not a NQS comp.) and shared 2 clips: https://www.instagram.com/p/CxBj2sdxCjC/
His training mate, Lorenzo Elano, also qualified for Nationals in Junior :) (last year he qualified as the 2nd place Novice finisher at Mids behind Nicholas Brooks who switched to & won Pacific Coasts this year, landing a 3A+ in his SP for the first time).

The Junior Men's competition at Nationals is shaping up to be exciting again this season!
I was hoping that Taira Shinohara would upload his Mids 1st place Junior videos to his YT channel and he did! :)
SP to Billy Joel's "Piano Man": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eEBSJIY9y8
FS to "Sparkle" by RADWIMPS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRl0IeOUZ6E

Shinohara set all new domestic personal best scores at Midwesterns! :) 74.60 (SP), 141.00 (FS), 215.60 (Total)
 

Allskate

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It’s almost like some people aren’t just mad that he can still beat some of their faves, they’re upset that he’s challenging the traditional ideas of how success and progress are defined in the sport.
Well, I think it depends on what you consider "traditional ideas." If we go back a few decades and more, the difficulty of jumps definitely weren't as critical to the result as they are now, and edge quality, moves in the field, and other skating features were more important than they are now. One might also argue that (aside from the figures portion of the competition) artistic expression was more important.

There always will be people who care only about jumps. (And there will be people who will argue that this sport isn't called jump skating so go start a jumping competition if that's all you care about.)
 
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tony

Throwing the (rule)book at them
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There always will be people who care only about jumps. (And there will be people who will argue that this sport isn't called jump skating so go start a jumping competition if that's all you care about.) Personally, I love that Jason is so good at things besides quads. I'm not sure why someone would choose his fan thread to argue otherwise.
If you mean this thread, it's not his fan thread but rather discussions on US mens' skating as a whole.

Anyways, as it stands, skaters continue to have an absolute maximum on their PCS for a given program. For the men, it's 50 and 100 (well thanks to ISU math, not quite exactly) for the short and long programs-- and even less of a maximum if they make major mistakes. There is a 'hypothetical' max for the TES, but the top men are certainly earning more than 100 points TES in their free skates for the content (jump-heavy) they are putting out.

Everyone is going to have things they fixate on more than the next person. Many people will fixate on their own opinions as if they are part the rulebook ;) I love a skater that checks off all of the boxes for exceptional skating skills and program composition. Jason has repeatedly done that throughout his career, but I'm also not oblivious to him doing everything he can TES-wise to stay competitive. In terms of 'competition', the TES (this not only includes overall difficulty but also the technique itself) has to matter as well, though.

In terms of US skating, it's not as if anyone besides Malinin is running away with this season anyways. People were worried about Jason last year and he was just fine, and it's been more of the same internationally for the rest of the men this year.
 
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