U.S. Men 2023-24 news & updates

[Sylvia]

Akiko Tamura wrote an article in Japanese on Camden balancing his studies at Columbia University (this is his second and final year, IIRC) and his skating/training - you have to be a parid subscriber to view in full but here's the beginning plus a photo:

「両立無理」と言われても　名門コロンビア大スケーターの時間管理術：朝日新聞デジタル

エリートアスリートが競技とハイレベルの学業を両立させるのは、簡単なことではない。米国ではイエール大に通いながら世界タイトルを守ったネーサン・チェンの例が有名だが、昨年から米国トップの8大学「アイビー…

www.asahi.com

Fan Zone Q&A article on Lucas Broussard before his GP debut in China tomorrow:

Catching Up with Lucas Broussard - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Lucas Broussard was one of Team USA's standout juniors last season.

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

ETA 1-minute video filmed at Champs Camp:

 

[mtnskater]

Awwww

Hugs to Lucas after his rough short program debut in China. Kind of wish his team would have let him leave the quad out for his debut short so maybe he could have handled the nerves better. Looked liked he just hurled himself into it and prayed , but he must be hitting it well in practice to leave it in. Also his short program music does nothing for him….not sure why that was chosen. Sure doesn’t show off how glorious his skating can be. Mark said he has only been skating for 8 years. Pretty amazing where he is already at 17 with his skating, including getting through a major growth spurt.

 

[layman]

I don't understand why Lucas (and his team) felt that he should move up to Seniors this year without first having mastered the Junior level (he bombed at Jr. Worlds last year). He does not have the technical content yet to compete with the Seniors and I feel that he would have been more competitive on the Junior circuit this year. I don't know why his team are trying to rush his development. Sometimes maturation in skating takes time and I just don't think that Lucas is ready for the Senior level yet.

 

[Sylvia]

Mark Hanretty mentioned today during the Cup of China Men's FS livestream that (paraphrasing) Broussard's left boot gave out or broke before the SP and he had to use a replacement pair with blades remounted.

I think his Nebelhorn Trophy FS is more indicative of his current abilities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cToExtHzSg

ETA that my post #2 in this thread mentions that Lucas Broussard originally was planning to stay junior internationally this season: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/u-s-men-2023-24-news-updates.110812/#post-6446273
With his continued growth (upwards in height), there's no guarantee he would have performed as well as he did in last year's JGP season that culminated with him winning the silver medal at the JGP Final.

 

[layman]

Mark Hanretty mentioned today during the Cup of China Men's FS livestream that (paraphrasing) Broussard's left boot gave out or broke before the SP and he had to use a replacement pair with blades remounted.

I think his Nebelhorn Trophy FS is more indicative of his current abilities: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cToExtHzSg

ETA that my post #2 in this thread mentions that Lucas Broussard originally was planning to stay junior internationally this season: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/u-s-men-2023-24-news-updates.110812/#post-6446273
With his continued growth (upwards in height), there's no guarantee he would have performed as well as he did in last year's JGP season that culminated with him winning the silver medal at the JGP Final.

Let's be real, you need four or five quads in the Men's Senior Division to even be in the conversation (for a medal). Lucas does have any reliable quads or a reliable 3-A (yet). Until he masters more of the technical elements, he will remain at a great disadvantage (and totally outclassed) in the Senior Division, even if he had the best boots. I think Lucas current technical content would be more competitive on the Junior level.

 

[Sylvia]

Let's be real

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just glad Lucas has a bye to Nationals and I'm very much looking forward to his senior national debut in Columbus.

 

[tony]

Let's be real, you need four or five quads in the Men's Senior Division to even be in the conversation (for a medal). Lucas does have any reliable quads or a reliable 3-A (yet). Until he masters more of the technical elements, he will remain at a great disadvantage (and totally outclassed) in the Senior Division, even if he had the best boots. I think Lucas current technical content would be more competitive on the Junior level.

Let’s be real. Almost all men in the competitive world don’t have four or five quads. Cha was on the podium last year with two quads (and an Axel technique that leaves a lot to be desired). Kevin Aymoz was just off the podium with one quad, and Jason Brown was just behind him with zero quads.

Some people on this board whined and whined about Jimmy Ma getting internationals all these years while ‘blocking’ up and coming juniors such as Broussard from moving up, which wasn’t even the case anyways.

Maybe he would’ve been more competitive on the junior scene. Maybe he wants more of a challenge this season. Maybe it was a joint decision with the people who see his skating every day. Maybe he wants to ease his way into seniors to get the nerves out of the way.

 

[layman]

I am just saying that Lucas has more to do on the Junior level. I think success on the Junior level would benefit him in the long run.

Even Michelle Kwan, who famously took her senior test (and moved up) behind her coaches back (at the age of 12 if I recall correctly), won Junior Worlds in 1994 before going on to have a long and successful career in the Senior division.

 

[tony]

I am just saying that Lucas has more to do on the Junior level. I think success on the Junior level would benefit him in the long run.

Even Michelle Kwan, who famously took her senior test (and moved up) behind her coaches back (at the age of 12 if I recall correctly), won Junior Worlds in 1994 before going on to have a long and successful career in the Senior division.

Your point goes out the window considering Kwan competed at Skate America (not the Grand Prix at that point, but still a big senior international) earlier in that 1994 season, and was also sent to senior Worlds.

There's nothing stopping USFS from Lucas being named to the World Junior team if he skates well and is considered.

 

[layman]

Your point goes out the window considering Kwan competed at Skate America (not the Grand Prix at that point, but still a big senior international) earlier in that 1994 season, and was also sent to senior Worlds.

There's nothing stopping USFS from Lucas being named to the World Junior team if he skates well and is considered.

Yes, but Michelle won Junior Worlds in 1994. She did not even medal at the Senior Worlds that year (it took her two more years to do so). There is a time and a place for everything, even with precocious talents like Michelle Kwan and Lucas Broussard.

 

[tony]

Yes, but Michelle won Junior Worlds in 1994. She did not even medal at the Senior Worlds that year (it took her two more years to do so). There is a time and place for everything, even with precocious talents like Michelle Kwan and Lucas Broussard.

You aren't reading. Michelle competed at 1993 Skate America and was already competing at senior Nationals in the 1992 season. So Kwan was already competing senior internationally, as well.

So I ask again, what's the problem if Lucas gets himself adjusted to senior-level international competition and Nationals, and then potentially still gets named to World Juniors?

 

[layman]

If you call coming in last place at Skate China getting "adjusted"...if this were true then perhaps I could see your point but it will take a serious leap of imagination for me to see how last place on the Senior Grand Prix is in any way a preparation for success.

Bottom line, Lucas just does not have the technical content right now to be successful on the Senior circuit yet, but he could be successful on the Junior circuit.

 

[tony]

If you call coming in last place at Skate China getting "adjusted"...if this were true then perhaps I could see your point but it will take a serious leap of imagination for me to see how last place on the Senior Grand Prix is in any way a preparation for success.

Bottom line, Lucas just does not have the technical content right now to be successful on the Senior circuit, yet but he could be successful on the Junior circuit.

I've had to ask a few other times: did you watch the program or are you just rambling as usual? Because this wouldn't be the first time you gave opinions by just reading the standings.

Maybe this was how he was always going to skate or maybe the boot problem really did mess with his timing throughout the programs. No one has to go straight into the medals to have a successful career or a leap in the standings.

Here's some factual information: he scored 216 at Nebelhorn earlier this season, which in this competition would've been 8th place just behind two-time World medalist Boyang Jin.

 

[Vagabond]

Just when I was worried that the world was going to wrack and ruin, Kwan steals the U.S. Men's thread!

 

[layman]

Michelle is not a bad example to emulate for any athlete!

 

[mtnskater]

I wondered what was going on with Lucas besides growth. Glad Mark explained it about the boot breakdown. I think his skating is glorious and he may eventually be a skater like Aymoz or Brown that does not need many quads to place well because of the second mark. I have no problem with Lucas going senior this year. And there is a very good chance he will go back to junior worlds. I can’t wait to see him at U.S. senior Nationals.

And yes, I’m one who has whined about Jimmy Ma getting so many internationals. And I like him quite a bit. But his lack of transitional content, speed, skating skills and inconsistency makes me want others to get experience as well. So I got my wish and Lucas got a senior international. He got a bad break in his debut (no pun intended) with his boots, but I am very happy to see him on the senior Grand Prix. Memola bombed at junior worlds too and has chosen to skate on the senior Grand Prix. I remember when Nathan Chen had his boots break down at one of his first senior worlds. Things happen and you move onto the next competition.

 

[emason]

Is it possible that it’s partially a financial motive? Skating is expensive and perhaps Broussard can’t afford to stay at the junior level.

 

[skatingguy]

Is it possible that it’s partially a financial motive? Skating is expensive and perhaps Broussard can’t afford to stay at the junior level.

According to what Mark said in commentary during the broadcast it's because the of the Olympics being just two seasons away. Broussard wanted more time, and experience in senior to prepare, and to have a chance of qualifying for the US team which makes sense given that 'body of work' is an important factor in how the team is picked. As an example, see what happened with Malinin two years ago.

 

[layman]

Is it possible that it’s partially a financial motive? Skating is expensive and perhaps Broussard can’t afford to stay at the junior level.

Is it cheaper on the senior level?

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

Is it cheaper on the senior level?

I think there is more funding to go around for top-placing seniors than there is for juniors. That’s just my impression, I may be wrong, of course.

 

[layman]

According to what Mark said in commentary during the broadcast it's because the of the Olympics being just two seasons away. Broussard wanted more time, and experience in senior to prepare, and to have a chance of qualifying for the US team which makes sense given that 'body of work' is an important factor in how the team is picked. As an example, see what happened with Malinin two years ago.

I can see that this may have been the motivation but I don't think coming in last place at Skate China is necessarily building the body of work that he is going to need.

How about coming in 1st place at two of the Junior Grand Prix competitions and then medaling again at the Junior Grand Prix final and then capping that off with a win at the Junior World Championships! I think that would set up Lucas a lot better and help build that "body of work" that he is going to need.

With his current technical content, Lucas will struggle to crack the top 10 at Senior Nationals this year. He's up against former World Junior Champions (Malinin, Hiwatashi) and former World Junior medalists (Jason Brown) not to mention many seniors who are able to land quads consistently (Ma, Naumov, Torgashev, Paniot, even Pulkinen). Given the odds (and the competition), Lucas has almost no chance of being named to the senior world team this year but maybe he will get an invite to the Junior Worlds as a consolation prize.

 

[Karen-W]

I can see that this may have been the motivation but I don't think coming in last place at Skate China is necessarily building the body of work that he is going to need.

How about coming in 1st place at two of the Junior Grand Prix competitions and then medaling again at the Junior Grand Prix final and then capping that off with a win at the Junior World Championships! I think that would set up Lucas a lot better and help build that "body of work" that he is going to need.

With his current technical content, Lucas will struggle to crack the top 10 at Senior Nationals this year. He's up against former World Junior Champions (Malinin, Hiwatashi) and former World Junior medalists (Jason Brown) not to mention many seniors who are able to land quads consistently (Ma, Naumov, Torgashev, Paniot, even Pulkinen). Given the odds (and the competition), Lucas has almost no chance of being named to the senior world team this year but maybe he will get an invite to the Junior Worlds as a consolation prize.

For starters, the GP is not "Skate China", it is Cup of China and has been for the entirety if its existence (20+ years).

Second, there are no guarantees that Lucas would have repeated the same success he had on the JGP this season that he experienced last season. You are making some awfully big assumptions that, based on what I've seen of Lucas' skating this year, might not have come to pass at all - and if he hadn't been able to replicate that JGP success again, where would that put him in his longterm plan to, hopefully, make the 2026 US Olympic team? Not any further along than where he is now.

Lucas might very well wind up being assigned to the Jr Worlds team, however, IIRC, we only have 2 spots and those might wind up going to Martynov (JGPF qualifier) and Sanchez or Strommer (JGPF 1st alternate). Or any number of other age-eligible guys who are attempting a 3A like Lucas is.

 

[emason]

Is it cheaper on the senior level?

I don’t think it’s cheaper on the senior level, but if, perhaps, he has limited training funds, he might prefer to go senior and use his funds there. I don’t know his personal situation; I’m just speculating on a possible reason.

 

[tony]

I can see that this may have been the motivation but I don't think coming in last place at Skate China is necessarily building the body of work that he is going to need.

How about coming in 1st place at two of the Junior Grand Prix competitions and then medaling again at the Junior Grand Prix final and then capping that off with a win at the Junior World Championships! I think that would set up Lucas a lot better and help build that "body of work" that he is going to need.

With his current technical content, Lucas will struggle to crack the top 10 at Senior Nationals this year. He's up against former World Junior Champions (Malinin, Hiwatashi) and former World Junior medalists (Jason Brown) not to mention many seniors who are able to land quads consistently (Ma, Naumov, Torgashev, Paniot, even Pulkinen). Given the odds (and the competition), Lucas has almost no chance of being named to the senior world team this year but maybe he will get an invite to the Junior Worlds as a consolation prize.

I shouldn't bother, but this post is just First, I'm fairly certain now that you didn't even watch since you skipped right over that part in an earlier post. Second, his boot trouble has been addressed. Third, I provided you statistics from Nebelhorn that showed the level he has shown already this season. Fourth, I've already mentioned twice that he can skate senior internationally all year and at Nationals, and still be in consideration for World Juniors. Fifth, you seem so sure his junior program would have won gold medals and a JGPF spot, but if the same fluke equipment issue came up there (or not), who knows what would've happened. You type like you know for certain what his results would've been!

He didn't go to "Skate China" to finish last place. Maybe go watch the event?

 

[layman]

For starters, the GP is not "Skate China", it is Cup of China and has been for the entirety if its existence (20+ years).

Second, there are no guarantees that Lucas would have repeated the same success he had on the JGP this season that he experienced last season. You are making some awfully big assumptions that, based on what I've seen of Lucas' skating this year, might not have come to pass at all - and if he hadn't been able to replicate that JGP success again, where would that put him in his longterm plan to, hopefully, make the 2026 US Olympic team? Not any further along than where he is now.

Lucas might very well wind up being assigned to the Jr Worlds team, however, IIRC, we only have 2 spots and those might wind up going to Martynov (JGPF qualifier) and Sanchez or Strommer (JGPF 1st alternate). Or any number of other age-eligible guys who are attempting a 3A like Lucas is.

I just know that if replicating his Junior success from last season this season will be hard, then success as a senior this season will be even harder (to achieve). Lucas still has junior level technical content.

As a senior this season, Lucas is (likely) looking at last place at his two senior Grand Prix competitions and not placing in the top ten at Senior Nationals. Will he get any international assignments next season (if this is the case)? Will he have to qualify for the following Nationals through Regionals and Sectionals?

This (season as a senior) just does not look like it's setting him up well for the following season and then the Olympic season. I say this out of concern and a sincere appreciation for his skating.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Wow, whats all the hoopla that’s going on here, OK I’m gonna watch the men’s free skate right now

 

[Karen-W]

I just know that if replicating his Junior success from last season this season will be hard, then success as a senior this season will be even harder (to achieve). Lucas still has junior level technical content.

As a senior this season, Lucas is (likely) looking at last place at his two senior Grand Prix competitions and not placing in the top ten at Senior Nationals. Will he get any international assignments next season (if this is the case)? Will he have to qualify for the following Nationals through Regionals and Sectionals?

This (season as a senior) just does not look like it's setting him up well for the following season and then the Olympic season. I say this out of concern and a sincere appreciation for his skating.

Please, just stop. You don't even, apparently, know that Lucas has only ONE Grand Prix assignment, not two.

With each and every post you make, harping on the topic you demonstrate just how ill-informed you are about... well, everything.

 

[layman]

Wow, whats all the hoopla that’s going on here, OK I’m gonna watch the men’s free skate right now

I too am baffled by the extreme, nonsensical, triggered and overly emotional responses to me pointing out what should be obvious to everyone (that moving up to senior this season was a mistake).

That it is obvious though, answers my question.

If this was Lucas' only Grand Prix though, I will say no more on this topic until after Nationals.

 

[Rukia]

Because it's not obvious. Plenty of us think he had nothing to lose moving up this year. And anyway, he has an entire team of people around him including usfs people who I'm sure gave him advice on what to do. He's a good skater, he's just unfortunately dealing with some things. It happens.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I definitely think Lucas has a shot at making the US world team early next year