U.S. Ladies [#28]: Achieving 2020 Vision

Lacey

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Congrats to Alysa for winning Bronze and 2 clean 3A in FS.

There are no mentions of it in the US press, but there are in Russian, impressed with 3A.
I am watching American Cup Gymnastics on American TV Channel NBC and there was a huge newsflash interruption about Alysa getting a bronze medal at skating Jr. Worlds w. shots of her in her shocking pink outfit with above above-elbow shocking pink gloves, mentioned she is going for 2022 Olympics.
 
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BittyBug

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Congratulations to Alyssa. When I watch her I am continually struck by how much she seems to love competing. She just exudes joy when she's skating. :)
 

olympic

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Too bad about the fall in the LP on the 4Z. She might have won silver if she had stayed on her feet.
 

sk9tingfan

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Too bad about the fall in the LP on the 4Z. She might have won silver if she had stayed on her feet.
Looking at the protocols, had she not under-rotated a number of jumps and fallen on her quad lutz, she might have had between 8-10 more points overall.
 
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Tinami Amori

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:) https://images.zahav.ru/newsaladimages/11_2019/b_18_11_2019_15_11_51_87292969.jpg

(google translates ok. nice article from few months back). Alysa Liu makes Time list - top 100 raising stars.
 

natsulian

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First and foremost, congratulations to Alysa Liu, Starr Andrews, and Lindsay Thorngren for representing Team USA so well. Liu not only gave the Free performance of her life in terms of depth and artistry but put together one of the most technically demanding programs seen in ladies figure skating. Andrews ended her 2019-2020 season on a high note, surpassing the 180 mark AND executed two clean programs. Although Thorngren had a disappointing Short, she seemed unfazed and will surely learn from this experience. As one always says, "There is no where else to go but up."

Alysa under-rotated the first 3A (the call was questionable) and the 4Lz. The under-rotation on the 3T in the Short and the 3A in the Free cost Alysa the silver and I'm sure her team is well aware of such a fact. I am still astonished by how much Alysa has improved from her first senior Nationals to now. The skating skills and speed mandate major work, especially next to gazelles like Kamila and Haein, but the current basics that Alysa possesses are great grounds for building up towards Beijing 2022.

I hope that Alysa's team spends the off season improving her speed, skating skills, and components and NOT on getting new quads. Although Alysa's charm is infectious and delectable, it was immensely evident that in juxtaposition to the other ladies in the last warm-up group, she lacked power and speed across the ice that no amount of charm could hide. No more quads or fixations on NEW jumps. Improve the jumps she currently has, get the 4Lz and 3A locked and loaded for next season, and come back with tremendously improved skating skills and speed. Since the 4Lz has NOT been working (it never did, judges simply never called them until now), if any new jumps should be worked on, it is the 4S that she's been training since she was a Novice/Junior.

With Junior Worlds finished, all eyes will now be on Senior Worlds in Montreal as Bradie Tennell and Mariah Bell vie for the three spots AND a possible podium finish should things work in their favor. Best of luck to our ladies.
 

sjs5572

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Looking at the protocols, had she not under-rotated a number of jumps and fallen on her quad lutz, she might have had between 8-10 more points overall.
The 3A in the combo should not have been called underrotated IMHO. She would have won silver if called clean.
 

clairecloutier

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The 3A in the combo should not have been called underrotated IMHO. She would have won silver if called clean.
In the slow-mo replay, I did think that 3A looked rotated. I think it was a bit of a questionable call. Then again, I like Alysa so I’m probably a bit biased. ;)
 

olympic

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^I'm glad others pointed out the questionable call on the first 3A in the LP. I watched it in slo-mo and feel the same way. I didn't see the blade in the wrong position or even a hook, and the camera was filming on Alysa's right side, so an observer had her landing in full view.

I brought up the fall on the 4Z because at her last comp, Nationals, she didn't have a perfect landing (UR) but stayed upright, so that seemed like an easy place to have picked up points.
 

jlai

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The first 3a was a close call but she could have gotten dinged more for quality in the short so it comes out even I think
 

Dobre

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Congratulations on your medal, Alysa! You have guts:).

Kudos to Starr also! Three spots it is.
 

Marco

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Can't argue with the lower jump GOEs and PCS for Alysa compared to Kamila and Daria. The jumps Alysa landed simply did not have the flow or the perfect landings that the Russians did, let alone the sort of height or transitions going in and out. The Russians visibly had a lot more power to their glides and were simply effortless when moving across.

As Alysa grows and the harder jumps become more inconsistent (wasn't she going for 2 4lutzes early in the season?), she needs to look to improving the qualitative aspect of her skating if she wants to match up to those insane Russians.

Separately, much kudos to Starr Andrews. I have been quite indifferent to her skating in the past few seasons but here she showed maturity and control that I have never seen from her before. It's refreshing and beautiful. She is holding those landings, using her arms beautifully (but not excessively) and connecting with the audience. She needs to keep working on that and also find a comfortable flip and lutz technique over the summer. That flip was not pretty.
 

AxelAnnie

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Can't argue with the lower jump GOEs and PCS for Alysa compared to Kamila and Daria. The jumps Alysa landed simply did not have the flow or the perfect landings that the Russians did, let alone the sort of height or transitions going in and out. The Russians visibly had a lot more power to their glides and were simply effortless when moving across.
I applaud Alysa for putting those jumps out there in her program. I think her team is doing a brilliant job of managing her progress, and that she has a level head on her shoulders. As to her skating skills, they are going to improve. She is aware of her shortcomings and seems to be addressing them.

As Alysa grows and the harder jumps become more inconsistent (wasn't she going for 2 4lutzes early in the season?), she needs to look to improve the qualitative aspect of her skating if she wants to match up to those insane Russians.
We will have to see how the puberty monster visits her. She may be able to manage inconsistency more easily than we think. I don't recall puberty being such an issue with Sasha, Michelle, Irina, etc.

The best thing Alysa brings to the ice is her joy, enthusiasm, and programs that are designed around balance and music rather than race there, jump...race over there stick out a leg, skate back over there jump. (Comment is not directed on any particular group or nationality.)

I hope Alysa is able to work with Kostner again.

Separately, many kudos to Starr Andrews. I have been quite indifferent to her skating in the past few seasons but here she showed maturity and control that I have never seen from her before. It's refreshing and beautiful. She is holding those landings, using her arms beautifully (but not excessively) and connecting with the audience. She needs to keep working on that and also find a comfortable flip and lutz technique over the summer. That flip was not pretty.
Glad to hear that Starr is gelling. I think she brings a lovely presence to the ice.
 

Jammers

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I think Alysa's time will be post 2022 especially if she survives her growth spurts. As for the Russian girls well we all know what happens when they aren't so tiny anymore and start becoming women.
 

layman

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I have to give kudos to Alysa for taking a big fall on the 4-Lutz and then bouncing back up and hitting a great 3-axel as if nothing had happened (with a big smile I might add). She's a competitor...and she has things to work on.

Even if she had landed the 4-lutz cleanly and not gotten under-rotation calls on other things, she would have still ended up 10-15 points below Valieva.

Someone asked earlier in the season, "what does Alysa need to catch Valieva?" My answer was "speed, spring, stretch, musical awareness, speed and most importantly speed."

I think her team knows now that the big jumps are not enough to catch Valieva. They need to spend the off season working on skating skills.

Still I am extremely proud of Alysa Liu...she could have crumbled and she did not. We had such a long drought of medals at the World Junior Championships but American skaters have now earned a Bronze Medal at the past two Championships (against some fierce competition from the Eteri girls). That's great.
 

layman

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Separately, much kudos to Starr Andrews. I have been quite indifferent to her skating in the past few seasons but here she showed maturity and control that I have never seen from her before. It's refreshing and beautiful. She is holding those landings, using her arms beautifully (but not excessively) and connecting with the audience. She needs to keep working on that and also find a comfortable flip and lutz technique over the summer. That flip was not pretty.
I was quite critical of Starr's interpretation of "Dance of the Seven Veils" earlier in the season. The program looked rushed...none of the moves were held and the story got lost in translation.

Well what a difference a full season can make! I have NEVER seen Starr interpret music and tell a story so well. She took her time to hold positions, to stretch and extend her lines fully, to dance (Dance of the Seven Veils is at heart a dance) and to tell a wonderful story. The technical elements were woven so perfectly into the narrative that they simply served as exclamation points! The mark of a great program comes when you don't even notice the technical elements. That's what Starr achieved. Bravo!
 

Weve3

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Very happy for Alysa. Congratulations! She has accomplished much at a very young age. Good for her!

Someone asked earlier in the season, "what does Alysa need to catch Valieva?" My answer was "speed, spring, stretch, musical awareness, speed and most importantly speed."

I think her team knows now that the big jumps are not enough to catch Valieva. They need to spend the off season working on skating skill
I agree. There's work to be done, but her team will do their best to help Alysa smooth out the rough edges and fine-tune during the off-season.

I think Alysa's time will be post 2022 especially if she survives her growth spurts.
Could be. The body (re the jumps) has a mind of its own, usually regardless of the skater's mental state. I think you must win your comps when you can no matter what your age due to growth spurt. If Alysa can successfully manage and clear that hurdle, she'll be in the mix. USFS banking on that knowing all too well that transitioning from junior-level success to senior-level success is the real crux.

I like her attitude. That's half the battle.
 

Sasha'sSpins

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I have to give kudos to Alysa for taking a big fall on the 4-Lutz and then bouncing back up and hitting a great 3-axel as if nothing had happened (with a big smile I might add). She's a competitor...and she has things to work on.

Even if she had landed the 4-lutz cleanly and not gotten under-rotation calls on other things, she would have still ended up 10-15 points below Valieva.

Someone asked earlier in the season, "what does Alysa need to catch Valieva?" My answer was "speed, spring, stretch, musical awareness, speed and most importantly speed."

I think her team knows now that the big jumps are not enough to catch Valieva. They need to spend the off season working on skating skills.

Still I am extremely proud of Alysa Liu...she could have crumbled and she did not. We had such a long drought of medals at the World Junior Championships but American skaters have now earned a Bronze Medal at the past two Championships (against some fierce competition from the Eteri girls). That's great.
I agree with all you said regarding Alysa vs. Kamila except for the bit about musical awareness. IMO Alysa is superior in that aspect. She expresses herself and interprets her music superbly and she is a far better performer too in that regard than Valieva - who moves beautifully but is virtually expressionless throughout her programs.
 

Tinami Amori

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I agree with all you said regarding Alysa vs. Kamila except for the bit about musical awareness. IMO Alysa is superior in that aspect. She expresses herself and interprets her music superbly and she is a far better performer too in that regard than Valieva - who moves beautifully but is virtually expressionless throughout her programs.
This opinion is subjective, a matter of taste, and cultural preference. Alysa's giddiness and constant smiling is nice for Alysa and those who like such style which is very american "be giddy and smile a lot". It is pretty much NOT part of Russian culture, what Kamila does is performs and expresses with her body parts and movements. She is like a leaf in the wind, always in motion with elegant and difficult moves.

The judges based on PCS marks found Kamila's expression and performance better than Alysa's, as well as Usacheva's and Haein Lee's also marked higher than Alysa's.

check the marks


You personal or nationalistic pref. has a legit. right to exist, but it does not make it a reality.
 

Dobre

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There was no way she was going to a 4CCs in Korea.
I think people are leaping to conclusions about why she skipped 4CCs. It's not uncommon for Raf's athletes to skip it, and after defeating Bradie at Nationals, Mariah had an upper hand heading into Worlds without refighting that battle. (As did Shoma after winning Japanese Nationals).
 

kwanatic

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I agree with all you said regarding Alysa vs. Kamila except for the bit about musical awareness. IMO Alysa is superior in that aspect. She expresses herself and interprets her music superbly and she is a far better performer too in that regard than Valieva - who moves beautifully but is virtually expressionless throughout her programs.
I agree. There's an fluidity, completeness and control to Alysa's movements that I feel Kamila somewhat lacks. Alysa's bubbly effervescent personality comes through on the ice which gives her a younger less mature look, but the presentation quality is definitely there. She hears the music and is listening to it--you can see it through her movements.

I don't feel Kamila actually listens to/hears her music. For the most part I like Kamila's SP, though I do wish she'd slow down some. She rushes through her movements. The FS is just all over the place. Exogenesis is a slow, soft, quiet song for the most part yet her movements are fast, sharp and a bit too harsh for the softness of the music. Additionally her deadpan expression is also something that she needs to work on. Anna or Alena aren't bubbly like Alysa but they still convey some kind of feeling or emotion when they skate. Kamila should work on that.

Anna was similar to Kamila last season. A lot of her movements were rushed, incomplete and seemed to happen independently of the music. This season however, I saw massive improvements in her relation and connection to the music. Hopefully we'll see that improvement in Kamila next year. I like Kamila, but if she can slow down, add some connection to her music and expression/feeling to her performance, I think I'd absolutely love her.
 

Frau Muller

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I agree. There's an fluidity, completeness and control to Alysa's movements that I feel Kamila somewhat lacks. Alysa's bubbly effervescent personality comes through on the ice which gives her a younger less mature look, but the presentation quality is definitely there. She hears the music and is listening to it--you can see it through her movements.

I don't feel Kamila actually listens to/hears her music. For the most part I like Kamila's SP, though I do wish she'd slow down some. She rushes through her movements. The FS is just all over the place. Exogenesis is a slow, soft, quiet song for the most part yet her movements are fast, sharp and a bit too harsh for the softness of the music. Additionally her deadpan expression is also something that she needs to work on. Anna or Alena aren't bubbly like Alysa but they still convey some kind of feeling or emotion when they skate. Kamila should work on that.

Anna was similar to Kamila last season. A lot of her movements were rushed, incomplete and seemed to happen independently of the music. This season however, I saw massive improvements in her relation and connection to the music. Hopefully we'll see that improvement in Kamila next year. I like Kamila, but if she can slow down, add some connection to her music and expression/feeling to her performance, I think I'd absolutely love her.
Sorry but...you have to be kidding. Alysa is cute but she’s like your neighbor’s kid tap dancing at a Dolly Dinkle Academy recital. Kamila is like an exquisite porcelain ballerina in St Petersburg Vaganova Ballet Academy.
 

kwanatic

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Sorry but...you have to be kidding. Alysa is cute but she’s like your neighbor’s kid tap dancing at a Dolly Dinkle Academy recital. Kamila is like an exquisite porcelain ballerina in St Petersburg Vaganova Ballet Academy.
Nope, I'm not kidding. Alysa is tiny and cute, but girlfriend is polished. Her movements aren't excessive or flailing or incomplete, and they flow very well from start to finish. She hears the music and expresses beyond just the movement. Alysa presents remarkably well for someone so young.

Kamila has a more mature look to her presentation and she's lovely to watch; however, there's a bit of a lack of connection to her movement and the music that plays. I fault the choreography/choreographer. Someone should be directing her to slow down and let her movements breathe rather than rushing on to the next movement. It gives her skating a somewhat choppy appearance at times that's at odds with the soft music she skates to. Her expression is a bit cold/removed when she skates as well, but that's okay. It's something she will gain with time I'm sure.

Kamila is a lovely skater but, like a lot of younger skaters, she needs work on her musical expression, connection to her movements and her projection. Alysa is a joyful skater but needs to work on her skating skills, speed and flow. Nothing wrong with that. Both are young and have time to grow. :)
 

DreamSkates

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Too bad about the fall in the LP on the 4Z. She might have won silver if she had stayed on her feet.
She's still learning how to compete under pressure on the world stage. They say how to learn not to fall, is to fall. Although i don't figure skate, but that sounds good.
 

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