U.S. Ladies [#28]: Achieving 2020 Vision

Dobre

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7,055
I'm all for higher 2nd mark scores for Wakaba. Of all the Japanese ladies' programs this season, I like her short program the best. It may be my favorite ladies' SP this season. I've not thought about it before, but nothing else is springing to mind over it at the moment.
 

all_empty

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Messages
1,762
I'm all for higher 2nd mark scores for Wakaba. Of all the Japanese ladies' programs this season, I like her short program the best. It may be my favorite ladies' SP this season. I've not thought about it before, but nothing else is springing to mind over it at the moment.
I have always had a sweet spot in my heart for Wakaba.

People always seem to forget that she is the most recent Japanese ladies world medalist, with a silver to boot.

I too love her short and think it should be ranked higher, just as Bradie's has been all season -- they're both great vehicles.

I'm not sure Wakaba will get the 3A consistent by Worlds, but she needs to be clean against Mariah, who slightly less technical content than the top ladies planned but better PCS (KD Lang in Canada, I mean, c'mon).

You may play spoiler with her technical content, but it is her first senior worlds and PCS typically peak then (hers fall short of the top skaters, but she might see a bump with the 4CC medal). She may play spoiler, but I don't see Kim being in the top 8 so three spots for Korea will be a long shot.

I've posted this before, but this could work out for RUS, JPN, and USA all getting three spots.

1. Korstornaia
2. Scherbakova
3. Trusova
4. Kihira
5. Tennell
6. You
7. Bell
8. Higuchi
9. Miyahara
10. Kim
 

Karen-W

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4,032
I've posted this before, but this could work out for RUS, JPN, and USA all getting three spots.

1. Korstornaia
2. Scherbakova
3. Trusova
4. Kihira
5. Tennell
6. You
7. Bell
8. Higuchi
9. Miyahara
10. Kim
And, alternately, if you want to guarantee RUS, JPN, USA and KOR all get three spots...

1. Kostornaia
2. Shcherbakova
3. Kihira
4. Trusova
5. You
6. Tennell
7. Bell
8. Kim
9. Higuchi
10. Miyahara
 

Skibean

Member
Messages
41
I adore Kihara, but I don’t see her on the podium. Last year should’ve been her year, but she couldn’t hold up to pressure and was inconsistent.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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15,164
If Trusova's PCS were scored fairly....smh


Big question for Wakaba is whether or not she should attempt the 3a in the SP.
 

Colonel Green

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5,775
I adore Kihara, but I don’t see her on the podium.
Why? It’s well within reach, now that she has the Lutz back.

As far as the US's chances for three spots, You and Higuchi's triple Axels are definitely the biggest wildcard in that equation. In Wakaba's case, especially, she's still got a bit of a challenge in terms of re-establishing her international reputation after the tumultuous period post-Milan, but if she lands everything she should score very well (and the 3A gives a TES boost that can't really be denied). You's triple Axel still isn't the most consistent, but it's definitely picked up in the second half of the season.
 
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all_empty

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1,762
And, alternately, if you want to guarantee RUS, JPN, USA and KOR all get three spots...

1. Kostornaia
2. Shcherbakova
3. Kihira
4. Trusova
5. You
6. Tennell
7. Bell
8. Kim
9. Higuchi
10. Miyahara
I had a similar ranking months ago (when I thought Eunsoo would be a factor) but I simply cannot see Yelim beating both Wakaba AND Satoko. I think she is a lovely, regal skater but not Top 8 yet. For some reason I think that Yelim will become the artist of the group, ala Shizuka.

Just putting it down now so I can revisit in a few years lol.
 

b-man

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,145
ohhhhh boyyyyy this really is a subjective sport. While Karen did great this week she engages me as an audience member 0%. She mostly looks nervous or unhappy. Usually unhappy. And when she presents like that it makes me want to fold the laundry and also iron it.
Had to laugh when I read this. I met Karen after her 2018 performances where she qualified for the Olympic team. It should have been one of the biggest moments of her career. I said something like, congratulations, you are going to have so much fun in the next month. She mumbled something unintelligible, and just looked . . .unhappy!
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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5,180
^^^^ Well as much as I dislike saying this I’m glad there’s someone out there that understands what I’m saying and saw it in person…

It’s a shame because I could really get into her skating if only she look happy doing it...
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,055
Karen, at 2018 Nationals, was quite ill.

Karen, at the end of her free at this year's 4CCs looked like the adorably happy Karen I have missed since her injury. It was a great pleasure to see:).
 

FigsVideo

New Member
Messages
2
Ohhhhhh, so this wasnt shown on TV?

Well... for those who are interested... Go to the youtubes and watch the video of Johnny and Tara re-commentate her 98 Olympic program The Rainbow.

Can I say I MUCH PREFER how Johnny is dressed when he is not on TV.. I would actually wear what he is wearing here......

Here you go....


“Dress by Jeff Billings. Bangs by my mother!” 😂😂😂😂
Thanks for sharing! Not sure if you saw this, but NBC also posted a piece the other day about "the scream" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_a_zwWHVBI
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
15,164
Aw, that comment from Tara about her mom, saying that the metal is almost hers, is really sweet.
 

giselle23

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Messages
1,559
I adore Kihara, but I don’t see her on the podium. Last year should’ve been her year, but she couldn’t hold up to pressure and was inconsistent.
I do. She has the same tech as the favorite, Kostornaia. And last year, she won everyone except Worlds. I wouldn't call that inconsistent. (Not sure why I am posting this on the US ladies thread.)
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Messages
5,180
Liu had such a gangbuster technically loaded short program at junior worlds. She only had one under rotation on the triple axel triple toe. Just strange to see her in fourth place being that her planned and executed content is superior to the Russians in the short

I hope she comes back and gets on the podium.. I mean a triple axel triple toe in a short program at junior worlds… Even with the under rotation I don’t understand how that’s not in the top two
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Messages
5,180
Question – does the single triple jump in the ladies short program required to be a loop?

Because why is everybody doing it? Including in the senior level.

I remember back in the Michele Kwan and Sasha Cohen days the lutz was always the combination and the flip would be the single jump. Why is everybody regressing to the Loop now?

The only thing I can think of is that skaters are terrified of receiving an edge call on a flip?
 

bytheriver

Member
Messages
8
Question – does the single triple jump in the ladies short program required to be a loop?

Because why is everybody doing it? Including in the senior level.

I remember back in the Michele Kwan and Sasha Cohen days the lutz was always the combination and the flip would be the single jump. Why is everybody regressing to the Loop now?

The only thing I can think of is that skaters are terrified of receiving an edge call on a flip?
The loop is the required SP solo jump for juniors. Seniors are probably just doing it because it’s easier.

Next year I think the solo jump is flip or lutz.
 

concorde

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Messages
328
I just look at all of the ladies scores after the short. Of the ladies that move on (top 24), only 2 have a fall. I think that stat is pretty amazing.
 

VGThuy

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Messages
31,679
Wow, the SP protocol showed me that doing a 3LZ/3Toe in the second half is pretty much worth the same as a 3A/3T done on the first half and with a > just on base value. Then a clean 3/3 will get high GOE while one with a > will get negative GOE deducting from the base value so in this case, Valieva for more than two points for her 3LZ/3Toe than Liu got for her 3A/3Toe.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
15,164
Is she doing a 3a for the axel element as well?

There's no real advantage to doing 3A-3T in the short program unless you are practicing to have it in your free skate in the future. Or... in anticipation that quads will be allowed for the solo jump in the ladies SP.

As for the triple loop, I don't think it's any easier under pressure. The penalty for getting an edge call on either your flip or your lutz, if you are including both, can be quite draconian.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,180
Wow, the SP protocol showed me that doing a 3LZ/3Toe in the second half is pretty much worth the same as a 3A/3T done on the first half and with a > just on base value. Then a clean 3/3 will get high GOE while one with a > will get negative GOE deducting from the base value so in this case, Valieva for more than two points for her 3LZ/3Toe than Liu got for her 3A/3Toe.
I noticed that same exact thing on the protocols as well. I was like damn they don’t really value a triple axle triple toe even with a downgrade
 

toddlj

Not "social distancing" just "physical distancing"
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1,788
Is that a Junior's only rule?
Yep.

Also, I'm not a fan of the required solo triple (this year, loop) for juniors. If someone botches their first jump in the combo, and are unable to add a second jump, they can't later tack a jump onto their solo loop to make it a combo. It has to be a solo jump.
 

VGThuy

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Messages
31,679
I kind of like it. It reminds me of the days of do or die back in 6.0 for the SP. There was a real tension in the SP back in those days. Sure mistakes in the SP are costly now (ask Nathan Chen) but not like back then with required deductions in a 6.0 system where skaters were separated by tenths and the placements were factored that really destroyed chances of medaling.
 

toddlj

Not "social distancing" just "physical distancing"
Messages
1,788
I kind of like it. It reminds me of the days of do or die back in 6.0 for the SP. There was a real tension in the SP back in those days. Sure mistakes in the SP are costly now (ask Nathan Chen) but not like back then with required deductions in a 6.0 system where skaters were separated by tenths and the placements were factored that really destroyed chances of medaling.
Yep. Hard lesson for these kids though. Poor Thorngren mis-timed her 3Z this morning, and then skated squeaky clean the rest of the program, but didn't qualify for the long.
 

Lizziebeth

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Messages
6,947
Yep. Hard lesson for these kids though. Poor Thorngren mis-timed her 3Z this morning, and then skated squeaky clean the rest of the program, but didn't qualify for the long.
Quite a few skaters got the first jump of the combo and missed the second. Thorngren popped the entire thing, poor girl. I was impressed that she held it together for the rest of the program.

There really is not much room for error when you must do a 3 loop and a 2A. I assume why they require a certain triple in juniors is to make sure they learn them.

Not sure yet if I will be a fan of adding quad jumps to junior short programs.
 

natsulian

Well-Known Member
Messages
496
A disastrous outing for Junior Champ Lindsay Thorngren but one in which a huge lesson will be learned. Popping the 3Lz+3T cost her 10 to 12 points and a ticket to the Free. However, I hope the costly errors will ignite a fire in her belly and result in huge strides being made next season. Starr, on the other hand, looked like the seasoned veteran that she was (compared to the other girls) and gave a riveting performance that warranted higher components. Lastly, Alysa looked shaky on the opening 3A+3T (the latter of which was deemed under) but subsequently executed Level 4 spins and a step sequence that was called a Level 3. Alysa will need to be squeaky clean to nab the silver and shortcomings from Valieva will be needed for her to take gold. The Short program was chock full of surprises and a few stellar moments. Of those surprises, Junior National Champions Kaiya and Lindsay not being among the 24 finalists broke my heart. I hope that they keep their heads high and come back with vengeance next season. Best of luck to the 24 ladies in the Free tomorrow.
 

Tinami Amori

Registered User
Messages
19,072
Congrats to Alysa for winning Bronze and 2 landed 3A in FS.

There are no mentions of it in the US press, but there are in Russian, impressed with 3A.
 
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