U.S. Ladies [#28]: Achieving 2020 Vision

[DimaToe]

in an ideal world this is how 4-10 would work out
4.Kihira
5.You
6.Tennell
7.Bell
8.Kim
9.Higuchi or Miyahara

All the countries other than Russia that could use 3 spots would get them. But I know that’s not gonna happen.

 

[olympic]

in an ideal world this is how 4-10 would work out
4.Kihira
5.You
6.Tennell
7.Bell
8.Kim
9.Higuchi or Miyahara

All the countries other than Russia that could use 3 spots would get them. But I know that’s not gonna happen.

I don't see both Japanese ladies behind Yelin Kim, but I appreciate your sentiment.

 

[Marco]

Bradie was Bradie. Reliable. She was almost on auto-pilot. JUst went on and on to nail the jumps. Not that emotional or inspiring.

Karen was awesome. So glad she was able to pull this out of her. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Absolutely lowballed on PCS but can't argue with some of the UR calls. Still, I would have her much higher, perhaps 4th ahead of Wakaba, Kaori and Yelim.

With Alysa being age eligible for Worlds next season, I almost feel like Bradie and Mariah are basically fighting for their own spots at these coming Worlds. They can only lose to 3 RUS + 1 JPN + 1 KOR. If Satoko / Wakaba / Yelim suddenly deliver, who knows what would happen. So far I think the odds are good. Satoko was quite horrible at Bavarian and Wakaba wasn't quite back to form yet.

 

[acraven]

...
With Alysa being age eligible for Worlds next season...

Alysa will not be eligible for Worlds or Four Continents until the 2021-2022 season. She doesn't turn 15 until August 8 this year--too late to be eligible for the major competitions during the 2020-2021 season.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The Tennell I saw on video isn't the same skater you saw, @Marco. I love her clarity.

I'm not a big fan of the type of music Chen uses for her FS, but she understands and feels the ebbs and flows and she rides it like a series of waves, never losing the connection between the two.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Bradie was Bradie. Reliable. She was almost on auto-pilot. JUst went on and on to nail the jumps. Not that emotional or inspiring.

Uggggg why u gotta be?

I was back to agreeing with you but that lasted just one solid day. Now I am back and with fists raised

 

[all_empty]

Hadn't seen Karen's free skating performance until just now -- so glad she went back to the "Slow Dancing in the Big City" program which I think she only used once in 2019.

The fan video really shows her excellent speed and ice coverage.

The jump layout is different (and maybe the music edit slightly). The 3Lz+1Lo+3S is new, right? It's too bad she struggles with the 3Lz+3T because she really needs it in the short and it would be good to have in the free. I know she dabbled with the 3Lz+3Lo when she was younger (and much tinier). Perhaps a 3S+3T and solo 3Lz might be in the works, though the base value is lower her 3Lz+3T and solo 3Lo layout.

Karen CHEN | 2020 Four Continents Figure Skating Champions | Free Skating

200208 4cc Karen CHEN FS

www.youtube.com

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Hadn't seen Karen's free skating performance until just now -- so glad she went back to the "Slow Dancing in the Big City" program which I think she only used once in 2019.

This music piece is so original that iTunes doesn’t even have it. Nor Amazon or any MP3 download site. Just a vinyl recording of it on YouTube. I quite like this music. Apparently the movie was a flop. Back to 1976 I think.

ANL loves a non-warhorse!!

The Ovation- Bill Conti- Slow Dancing in the Big City (1978)

m.youtube.com

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

I so admire Bradie. Could she take a page out of Jason's playbook - try to up her GOE and PCS to get her total score closer to the younger group? One difference is Jason was always a beautiful skater. Getting to the top of the heap was never going to be a steep climb. Maybe that strategy wouldn't be effective for Bradie. Anyway, she's a fighter; maybe after world's and a rest we'll start to see the 3A.

 

[VGThuy]

I so admire Bradie. Could she take a page out of Jason's playbook - try to up her GOE and PCS to get her total score closer to the younger group? One difference is Jason was always a beautiful skater. Getting to the top of the heap was never going to be a steep climb. Maybe that strategy wouldn't be effective for Bradie. Anyway, she's a fighter; maybe after world's and a rest we'll start to see the 3A.

I think she's trying hard to do that. We can't turn her into a Jason Brown though. She can only work on being the best version of herself through improvement and trial/error.

 

[Spun Silver]

I so admire Bradie. Could she take a page out of Jason's playbook - try to up her GOE and PCS to get her total score closer to the younger group? One difference is Jason was always a beautiful skater. Getting to the top of the heap was never going to be a steep climb. Maybe that strategy wouldn't be effective for Bradie. Anyway, she's a fighter; maybe after world's and a rest we'll start to see the 3A.

I agree with VGT that that's exactly what she is doing in her not-Jason way. As an example, the Biellmann in her SP at 4CCs was wonderful. Excellent position and speed and she kept it going for quite a long time. I don't remember that being such a strong suit of hers before.

 

[Frau Muller]

in an ideal world this is how 4-10 would work out
4.Kihira
5.You
6.Tennell
7.Bell
8.Kim
9.Higuchi or Miyahara

All the countries other than Russia that could use 3 spots would get them. But I know that’s not gonna happen.

I’m not so sure that 3rd place is a lock for Trusova. Kihira can definitely win bronze., assuming that all perform to their abilities. Let’s see.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I agree with VGT that that's exactly what she is doing in her not-Jason way. As an example, the Biellmann in her SP at 4CCs was wonderful. Excellent position and speed and she kept it going for quite a long time. I don't remember that being such a strong suit of hers before.

I noticed that difference in the spin as well

My wish is for the 3axel and to return to the 3 lutz / 3 loop

 

[PRlady]

Bradie seems to be a very hard worker and she’s maximizing her talent. But charisma isn’t something you gain over time. I literally can’t focus thru any of her long programs, I always seem to remember that I have to fold the laundry.

Mariah and Karen are 100 times more engaging.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Bradie seems to be a very hard worker and she’s maximizing her talent. But charisma isn’t something you gain over time. I literally can’t focus thru any of her long programs, I always seem to remember that I have to fold the laundry.

Mariah and Karen are 100 times more engaging.

True. That charisma or "IT FACTOR" is pretty much something you are born with or you are not.
I enjoy Bradie, and she is improving. It is nice OTOH to watch someone who you know is going to land the jumps. I watched Mai Mihara the other day. Boy was she gorgeous. Soft knees. Quick rotation. Certainty at each stroke.

 

[Dobre]

For Karen.

I am just happy she skated so well and nailed both lutzes in the free. Pretty sure this is the first time this season that she has done so with her 2nd lutz. I am good with any jump format that helps her do this.

 

[VGThuy]

The thing with Bradie is that I switch off my bias due to my appreciation for skaters like her because I appreciate the effort and her whole healthy mindset towards this sport. It would have been easy for a skater like her to be frustrated with last few years with some setbacks but she just keeps quietly working and minimizing what the judges can deduct from her. To me she’s a great role model as someone who wasn’t the most flashy or media friendly but someone who simply demands respect due to diligence, discipline, and hard work. After the last few years (not just talking about skating but the world at large), I appreciate Bradie’s no-nonsense and non attention-seeking approach. Nothing wrong with a skater who seeks to engage fans, grow followers, and gives the media what they want, but I also appreciate other approaches and I find Bradie’s to be refreshing. In real life, I find hard diligent but quiet workers are often ignored for those who know how to network better or have qualities that management or those in charge can relate to and want to be around. I think I’m projecting that on Bradie and to a lesser extent Vincent Zhou as the fandom often gives these skaters a hard time for not being the most naturally gifted in terms of performance but are making strides to improve themselves steadily.

 

[Marco]

Alysa will not be eligible for Worlds or Four Continents until the 2021-2022 season. She doesn't turn 15 until August 8 this year--too late to be eligible for the major competitions during the 2020-2021 season.

OK thanks. In that case perhaps there is no pressure to regain that 3rd spot. From these Nationals I see a big difference between the top 3 and the rest.

The Tennell I saw on video isn't the same skater you saw, @Marco. I love her clarity.

I didn't mean it in a bad way necessarily. Everything was auto-pilot. Very precise. I just didn't feel enough of a human touch the same way I feel from Mariah or even Alysa. Perhaps it's because I never caught her eyes. Elements wise they were wonderful.

 

[Vagabond]

OK thanks. In that case perhaps there is no pressure to regain that 3rd spot. From these Nationals I see a big difference between the top 3 and the rest.

If Ting Cui and Hanna Harrell are healthy next season, either or both of them could earn a spot at Worlds. Also, Karen Chen might be able to close that gap.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Bradie seems to be a very hard worker and she’s maximizing her talent. But charisma isn’t something you gain over time. I literally can’t focus thru any of her long programs, I always seem to remember that I have to fold the laundry.

Mariah and Karen are 100 times more engaging.

ohhhhh boyyyyy this really is a subjective sport. While Karen did great this week she engages me as an audience member 0%. She mostly looks nervous or unhappy. Usually unhappy. And when she presents like that it makes me want to fold the laundry and also iron it. She's great at spins, good height on jumps but doesn't reach to me at all. Charisma is flatlined.

Bradie improved 100%. Benoit was spot on on having her stare him in the eyes when she was doing her SP. It worked. She looks at the judges and into the audience during that SP. Its amazing.

Now that I think of it it could benefit Karen to do this. It would at least draw me in a bit more if she did.

Kaliani Craine is someone (to me) who oozes charisma. Even if she doubled all her jumps I will watch because she engages with her performance. Karen, not yet. Hopefully she will.

 

[Marco]

If Ting Cui and Hanna Harrell are healthy next season, either or both of them could earn a spot at Worlds. Also, Karen Chen might be able to close that gap.

Sure. I love Ting Cui and hope she comes back strong. I doubt she or Hanna would surpass Bradie or Mariah at Worlds in 2021 and help with placements / spots for US. I would be very happy if Ting does it though.

 

[Frau Muller]

Bradie seems to be a very hard worker and she’s maximizing her talent. But charisma isn’t something you gain over time. I literally can’t focus thru any of her long programs, I always seem to remember that I have to fold the laundry.

Mariah and Karen are 100 times more engaging.

I disagree (strictly addressing the “IT Factor” and not skating substance). Bradie is the only of the three who, if they were ballerinas, I’d enjoy as the lead in Swan Lake. Bradie makes me think of, for example, New York City Ballet principal Tess Reichlen - long, lean, light, aristocratic face. On the other hand, Mariah lacks “IT” - she’s totally “Demi-charactere” because of the chipmunk face & pug nose...maybe a cute Swanilda in Coppelia or one of the four cygnets but never a Swan Queen.

 

[olympic]

What I love about Bradie is that she is one of the most determined US ladies in memory. As an example, any of our top ladies from the past would have let that opening 3-3 at 4CCs go (popped the back end into a double, under-rotated it and/or fallen), but she was not going to leave anything on the table. So, her determination is just as valuable for me as any of the super-skilled or artistic ladies in the past.

 

[flyingsit]

Kaliani Craine is someone (to me) who oozes charisma. Even if she doubled all her jumps I will watch because she engages with her performance. Karen, not yet. Hopefully she will.

Really? I haven't seen her live, but on TV the overly dramatic EVERYTHING just makes me laugh.

 

[clairecloutier]

Really? I haven't seen her live, but on TV the overly dramatic EVERYTHING just makes me laugh.

I've seen Kailani live a couple times, and her presentation definitely works live, at least for me. Of course, seeing things in closeup on TV is different than seeing things from a distance live as an audience member. Kailani is indeed charismatic and gets into her music.

But Karen is beautiful. I've seen her live a number of times now and have always been moved just by the lovely quality of her skating, her flow, her glide, her spirals and spins.

 

[layman]

I've seen Kailani live a couple times, and her presentation definitely works live, at least for me. Of course, seeing things in closeup on TV is different than seeing things from a distance live as an audience member. Kailani is indeed charismatic and gets into her music.

But Karen is beautiful. I've seen her live a number of times now and have always been moved just by the lovely quality of her skating, her flow, her glide, her spirals and spins.

"...the lovely quality of her skating, her flow, her glide, her spirals and spins.."...not to mention the spectacular spring in her jumps. So many ladies just whip their jumps around or start rotating on the ice (pre-rotation), but Karen's jumps get spectacular lift and cover a great deal of ice surface. I love her jumps.

It's true that she delays her rotations quite a bit but Jason Brown used to do that and I see that Tracy/Brian and Co. have him snapping into the rotations much sooner now. I think Karen could learn this too and her problems with under-rotations would be a thing of the past.

Anyway, I greatly prefer Karen's current technique (delayed rotation) to the pre-rotation and 0 jump height that we see from Alyssa or Satoko.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Really? I haven't seen her live, but on TV the overly dramatic EVERYTHING just makes me laugh.

Yup. Really, child.

At least she realizes there’s an audience there.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I've seen Kailani live a couple times, and her presentation definitely works live, at least for me. Of course, seeing things in closeup on TV is different than seeing things from a distance live as an audience member. Kailani is indeed charismatic and gets into her music.

But Karen is beautiful. I've seen her live a number of times now and have always been moved just by the lovely quality of her skating, her flow, her glide, her spirals and spins.

I agree with everything you said as usual Claire!

It’s just for me even though Karen’s skating is indeed beautiful she isn’t one of the skaters that performs for an audience. Sometimes she just looks too unhappy for me to fully invest anymore. But her performances this past weekend were huge step in the right direction I think. I also think she should’ve been in at least sixth place after the short program.

 

[aftershocks]

To be honest i had given up on Karen being a factor in the future with all of her struggles and now going to college but with her skates here she has i think put herself back into the conversation among the top US Ladies and if she is willing and able should think about putting college aside to focus on her skating and make a run for another Olympic team.

Strangely enough, it could be college that has helped Karen focus better when training and competing. Academics seemingly serves as additional required self-discipline, as well as a window to a different world and to fresh perspectives.

Perhaps Karen should work on experimenting with a creative idea for music and choreography next season and still attend school, but pursue a lighter course load. Then, if she truly desires, gear up to take a leave of absence for the Olympic season, in which she might bring back On Golden Pond for her sp, along with a knock-em dead fp!

 

[aftershocks]

Kaliani Craine is someone (to me) who oozes charisma. Even if she doubled all her jumps I will watch because she engages with her performance.

I can see Kailani as an ice dancer, but she is average on the jumps and that doesn't seem to change despite some improvements. Hasn't anyone ever suggested for her to give ice dance a try? She's a gorgeous dancer and an effervescent performer!