U.S. Ladies [#28]: Achieving 2020 Vision

[natsulian]

I think giving the Junior Worlds experience to someone like Isabelle is more valuable than assigning it to Starr. Starr already has Junior Worlds experience and she’s been sent to five internationals this season. In those five internationals, she’s struggled with the Free in all of them. Isabelle has been on the up swing and although her result at Junior Champs was lackluster, she did land three clean 3-3s between the Short and Free and only had two to three major mistakes that cost her a Top 3 finish. Junior Champs was a tough battle for those medal positions and you had to be as clean as a whistle or have the skating skills to back it up to be a top lady and Isabelle showed guts and vast improvements. Calista was third on the basis of a very strong Short but she too has trouble putting together a clean Long. Hopefully all our junior ladies will show vast improvements come the next season. Sad that those who did well on the Junior Grand Prix can’t go to Junior Worlds.

 

[PRlady]

I almost wish there were a limit on how many times you can go to Junior Worlds (maybe if you finish top seven or something) before having to "graduate." Too many times there are youngsters stuck in the pipeline while someone like Starr, whom I like but who doesn't seem to be progressing, keeps going and going.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I almost wish there were a limit on how many times you can go to Junior Worlds (maybe if you finish top seven or something) before having to "graduate." Too many times there are youngsters stuck in the pipeline while someone like Starr, whom I like but who doesn't seem to be progressing, keeps going and going.

Would this reasoning also apply to Seniors? Like............um.........The Marrieds?

 

[haribobo]

Starr has only been to jr worlds once and 4cc once. I dont mind her going really because nobody else was decidedly better through the season, but I'd also have been fine with Calista getting the nod.

 

[gkelly]

I almost wish there were a limit on how many times you can go to Junior Worlds (maybe if you finish top seven or something) before having to "graduate." Too many times there are youngsters stuck in the pipeline while someone like Starr, whom I like but who doesn't seem to be progressing, keeps going and going.

Should this be a US rule or an ISU rule?

Smaller federations might send the same skater every year from age 13 to 18 if there are no other age-eligible skaters at that level in that country. In that case there wouldn't be anyone for them to hold back.

This could be especially true for boys who might have started late, barely had any triples at 13, did in fact progress steadily through those years, and finally got a triple axel at 18.

But in fact sometimes federations including the US do send skaters back to JW a third or fourth time, even if they already have a JW medal or two, in hopes of earning the gold this time.

 

[Jarrett]

IMO The combination of Starr and Liu are the best chance of keeping the maximum spots on the JGP next season.

 

[Stephanie]

IMO The combination of Starr and Liu are the best chance of keeping the maximum spots on the JGP next season.

Alysa alone should be good enough for keeping JGP spots (just the top finisher per country counts) but Starr could help keep 3 spots for next year's junior worlds.

 

[aftershocks]

Too many times there are youngsters stuck in the pipeline while someone like Starr, whom I like but who doesn't seem to be progressing, keeps going and going.

Hmmm, like the Energizer Bunny I suppose.

As has been pointed out, Starr does not have multiple appearances at Junior Worlds. To date, Starr has competed at Junior Worlds once: she placed 12th in 2017; and she had to withdraw in 2018.

You're off base in your comment that Starr is not 'progressing.' She may not be 'progressing' to your satisfaction, but she has shown improvement in her skating and in her competitive results internationally this season. Apparently, it isn't enough for you.

Skating is a tough sport, and skaters experience a lot of ups-and-downs over the course of their careers. Starr still has areas she needs to improve on, but to suggest she isn't progressing at all is rather a damning view. Fortunately for Starr, US figure skating and ISU judges hold a different view.

 

[natsulian]

Bavarian Open Entries:

• Ellen Slavicek (Jr.)
• Elsa Cheng (Jr.)

Challenge Cup Entries:

• Sierra Venetta (Sr.)
• Tamnhi Huynh (Jr.)
• Hannah Herrera (Jr.)
• Alina Bonillo (Adv. Nov.)
• Isabelle Emler (Adv. Nov.)

 

[Marco]

I think Starr being given Jr Worlds is more for her to maximize her WS points and give her another chance to have a higher SB for next season's GP invites. As in, she didn't place high enough at Nationals to get 4CCs so she is at least getting something to keep her going.

I do agree that so far Starr has not lived up to her hype (not her fault) and I wish the US Fed would diversify their investments a little.

 

[gkelly]

has not lived up to her hype (not her fault)

Indeed, whenever that happens, the fault generally lies more with those doing they hyping than with the person being hyped.

 

[Dobre]

The first time I saw Starr was 2017 Junior Nationals. She & Alexia Paganini were the ones I liked most at the time. Both have done quite well relative to the rest of that junior field. Hopefully we will see Emmy Ma back soon as well.

The novices at the time were impressive. I think when you have a group like that (Alysa, Ting, Hanna) coming up on your heels then it's certainly going to be a challenge, as those girls were already trying a lot of difficulty, but I'm glad to see Starr & Alexia working their way through adolescence. I hope they will continue to develop as performers.

 

[aftershocks]

Starr has not lived up to her hype...

What hype? Because Starr skated the heck out of Whip My Hair when she was 7 years old? Not all kids who have fun on the ice at very young ages love skating enough to continue on in what is an extremely difficult sport. Starr's mother proudly posted that video, never realizing that it would become a viral phenomenon remembered to this day. The video is still fun to watch, but it's separate from the skater Starr is at the moment.

Starr breaking through at U.S. Nationals a few years ago with her Whitney Houston fp was no hype either. It was a singular moment of achievement and a memorable passage in a nascent skating career for a brave and determined young lady who, if she continues to dare and to believe, has many more mountains to climb.

Starr has gotten where she is today via a lot of hard work, sacrifices, family support, overcoming roadblocks, gaining mentors, believing in herself and in her dreams, and never giving up when it seemed like she couldn't get past tough challenges on the lower levels. The tough battle continues. Forget about your erroneous perception of Starr's trajectory being about hype.

Even the obvious hype surrounding Alysa Liu should not be used to define or measure who she is either. A career in figure skating is about hard work, self-belief and navigating a challenging minefield, which in some cases involves overcoming hype!

 

[Colonel Green]

For those not following the Bavarian Open, Elsa Cheng is in first place after the short program in Group I of the junior ladies. Things went much better than at junior nationals.

Elsa Cheng - 2020 Bavarian Open SP

February 4, 2020 Bavarian Open - Junior Ladies Group I. Music: "Storm" by Havasi; Choreography by: Benoit Richaud

www.youtube.com

 

[natsulian]

That 3Lz+3T was a beauty. Her jumps have gotten so much better.

 

[Colonel Green]

Elsa had a slightly tougher go of it in the free skate and ended up narrowly second overall, but again a big improvement over junior nationals.

Elsa Cheng - 2020 Bavarian Open FS

February 5, 2020 Bavarian Open - Junior Ladies Group I. Music: "Somewhere In Time" by John Barry; Choreography by: Jeremy Abbott.

youtu.be

 

[Carolla5501]

So I see the Karen Chen chouse not to return to school but to go directly to Colorado to train for 4CCs. I’m just really curious how you can take what appears to been a month off in the middle of a semester. Is she going to just withdraw from school or is she honestly thinking they’re going to make some kind of special exception? It’s all rather bizarre to hear these kids claim schooling is the most important thing and then just randomly decide to “not go back to class”

 

[flyingsit]

So I see the Karen Chen chouse not to return to school but to go directly to Colorado to train for 4CCs. I’m just really curious how you can take what appears to been a month off in the middle of a semester. Is she going to just withdraw from school or is she honestly thinking they’re going to make some kind of special exception? It’s all rather bizarre to hear these kids claim schooling is the most important thing and then just randomly decide to “not go back to class”

It's been a long time since I was in college, and I can't vouch for Cornell specifically... but it's not like most university classes take attendance. If you can keep up with the reading and take the exams, that's pretty much all you need to do unless you have labs. I found that for a lot of classes I either had to do the reading OR attend lectures in order to get good grades, and if the professors gave boring lectures I just didn't go to class.

 

[Theoreticalgirl]

It depends on the type of class. Large lectures may not require it but in seminars, labs, and studio courses, attendance may largely factor into a student's overall grade. This on top of whether the class is in-person or online. Let's not also forget that Karen may have some exceptions from her profs to miss classes, which is common for student-athletes.

All of this is to say that unless someone has direct knowledge of what Karen's class schedule looks like (let's face it, that would be totally creepy), perhaps it might be wise for some of us to hold their tongues when it comes making opinions on how her educational situation is playing out.

Also, if Karen's transition to college isn't working out, that's OK too. But really, it's none of our business.

 

[Lanie]

It's been a long time since I was in college, and I can't vouch for Cornell specifically... but it's not like most university classes take attendance. If you can keep up with the reading and take the exams, that's pretty much all you need to do unless you have labs. I found that for a lot of classes I either had to do the reading OR attend lectures in order to get good grades, and if the professors gave boring lectures I just didn't go to class.

I had to take some boring courses to graduate with my degree, and one of them I never, ever showed up to class. It was just awful and I hated the class. The grade was based off of one thing: a term-end research project. I got a 98 in the class without ever showing up (my professor knew about it), because I did a damn good project. Karen will be fine!

 

[Carolla5501]

It depends on the type of class. Large lectures may not require it but in seminars, labs, and studio courses, attendance may largely factor into a student's overall grade. This on top of whether the class is in-person or online. Let's not also forget that Karen may have some exceptions from her profs to miss classes, which is common for student-athletes.

All of this is to say that unless someone has direct knowledge of what Karen's class schedule looks like (let's face it, that would be totally creepy), perhaps it might be wise for some of us to hold their tongues when it comes making opinions on how her educational situation is playing out.

I am just commenting on the rather bizarre story USFS posted which seems to indicate that Karen doesn't really know what she wants to do about school. However, generally students don't decide that in mid-semester in my experience. The story does not give one the impression that she's actually continuing her studies while training.... maybe it's just poorly written?

 

[clairecloutier]

Here is the USFS story about Karen:

With Four Continents Selection, Karen Chen Faces Big Decisions About Her Future - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

When Karen Chen booked her flight to Greensboro, North Carolina, for the 2020 Toyota U.S. Figure Skating Championships, she didn't book a return flight back to Ithaca,

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

 

[cheremary]

A lot of schools have a January or winter short term, so the spring semester doesn’t start until close to February. It looks like Cornell’s started after MLK day (https://registrar.cornell.edu/academic-calendar), so assuming she goes back right after 4CCs, she’s missed 3 weeks and has the rest of the semester. Since Karen doesn’t have any assignments the rest of the season (unless someone withdraws from Worlds), she can concentrate on school until the end of the year.

If one chooses to withdraw, there’s usually a date by which one can withdraw and get a tuition refund. Looks like Cornell’s is based on a schedule (https://www.dfa.cornell.edu/bursar/students-parents/leaving).

 

[Vagabond]

I am just commenting on the rather bizarre story USFS posted which seems to indicate that Karen doesn't really know what she wants to do about school.

The same could have been said about Michelle Kwan, Mirai Nagasu, and others.

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe she’s at a crossroads now and is deciding whether to make skating or college a priority now that she’s experienced one full-time semester on the “normal” timeline and found the balance to be near-impossible. Nathan is an exception but even Raf makes comments about how school is slowing down his progress and they’re just working to maintain his current level. Though that was last season. Who knows if Raf has changed his tune on that.

If Karen really wants to give skating her all, I hope the people in her life are supportive. There is no shame in continuing one’s higher education later in life as Kwan did and many others.

 

[Carolla5501]

I’m going to be honest I felt like this year we had a couple of skaters who saw what Nathan did and went “well I can do it too” and honestly maybe they can’t. Nathan is an exception that he can even maintain without a coach nearby. ( I don’t know that you could say last year’s worlds free skate was a “maintenance” skate LOL)

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe Raf is imagining quad quad combos or quints haha. He’s probably thinking improved speed, ice coverage, and ability to do more transitions on top of his amazing quad count.

 

[vesperholly]

Challenge Cup Entries:

• Sierra Venetta (Sr.)

Is this Sierra's first international?

 

[Frida80]

Is this Sierra's first international?

Yes! She finally gets a Team USA jacket!

 

[Maximillian]

I was sort of apathetic about Karen continuing on, however, for whatever reason her skates at Nationals (as flawed as they were) reminded me of what a talent she is, and how even though she is clearly in limbo with the school/skate decision, she's still the most talented lady we have at the moment, so I (selfishly) hope she focuses on skating through to the next Olympics.