U.S. Ladies [#27]: A Time to Reboot

[sjs5572]

And if you ever needed a reason to love math, now is the time!

Didn't you know....algebra one and trigonometry is now a required part of the novice test!

 

[toddlj]

Her ISU bio says that she’s part of IceWorks now.

Link: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00013680.htm

I guess I won't see her comeback live then!

 

[Sylvia]

Gracie already was listed as a member of the Iceworks Skating Club in Aston, PA when the initial list of 2019 Nationals competitors was published back in December 2018.

JGP #7 in Egna ladies' chronology as listed on USFS International Assignments page:
Hanna Harrell (w/d 9/19)
Isabelle Inthisone (added 9/20) scored 156.03 in Riga
Kate Wang (added 9/20) scored 164.59 in Chelyabinsk

 

[all_empty]

The good news is, there's is a LONG time before now at the JGP Final. If Alysa keeps working on her PCS (which I'm sure her camp knows is a development area) and makes the same improvements in the next few months as we've seen since Nationals, I'm sure she will be just fine. The key is to stay healthy and work on a jump layout that she is comfortable with, whether as a international junior or domestic senior.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Well, partly just rah-rahing for the home team. If there is a swipe it's at her federation. I was thinking of Julia L. who was pushed and trotted out as the next great thing - at 15. By the 2014 Oly's she was already unraveling. Of course the US has it's examples - how long did we/the USFS "hope" Gracie would be the next Michelle? Took years to realize there wouldn't be another Kwan - the structure of the sport had changed. Didn't make it any easier on Gold.

I'm all for the home team and I understand going after a federation, coaches, etc. They are all adults. Yet, you didn't say federation - you directly mentioned Sasha Trusova by name -'Let Trusova wear herself out'. It was a personal attack on her, a child - not her federation. It was uncalled for. It wasn't cool at all and very disappointing to see - because like I said, I was with you until you took a swipe at Sasha. I think most of us are aware of the misfortunes of past wunderkinds, but blame their handlers. Jmo.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

The good news is, there's is a LONG time before now at the JGP Final. If Alysa keeps working on her PCS (which I'm sure her camp knows is a development area) and makes the same improvements in the next few months as we've seen since Nationals, I'm sure she will be just fine. The key is to stay healthy and work on a jump layout that she is comfortable with, whether as a international junior or domestic senior.

And from her interview in Gdansk, Alysa is well aware that she needs improvements - including speed, speed, and even more speed!

She mentioned she needs to improve on 'expressions...flow in and out of jumps... and faster, 'must go faster!'. This is a very smart, self aware young lady. As long as she stays healthy and survives the puberty monster, I've no doubt in my mind that we are going to see dramatic improvements in all of those PCS bullet points in the years to come - along with those 3 Axels and quads!

Alysa Liu (USA) | Winners Interview Ladies | Gdansk 2019

Visit https://isu.org/JuniorGrandPrix for more information on the ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating. Courchevel, France - August 21 to 24 Lake Placid, ...

youtu.be

 

[Frida80]

Assuming she has no issue with executing the 4Lz in combination, Alysa is still better off with second 4Lz over 4S. She loses .52 in backloading by doing 3Lp instead of 3Lz/3t. However, 4Lz is worth 11.50 and 4S is 9.70. So, 4Lz is net gain of 1.28 assuming GOE is same. Of course, if she does three quads, then all bets are off!

The BV between using a 4Lz and a 4S is 80.49 vs 80.21. It’s losing the second lutz that cost her. A full point off that, plus not being able to backloads the +3T. It’s virtually a tie. However, I think with would be good to her to be able to use the 4S. They said it looked bigger ans more impressive than her 4Lz, meaning it could get a bigger GoE.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

The BV between using a 4Lz and a 4S is 80.49 vs 80.21. It’s losing the second lutz that cost her. A full point off that, plus not being able to backloads the +3T. It’s virtually a tie. However, I think with would be good to her to be able to use the 4S. They said it looked bigger ans more impressive than her 4Lz, meaning it could get a bigger GoE.

Interesting! Now I can't wait to see Alysa's 4S! IIRC, she mentioned in some interviews that the toe pick jumps like the Lutz are easier for her than edge jumps - IMO it'd be amazing if she could have both in her arsenal! I could be wrong but I think some judges like to see a nice variety of jumps.

 

[sjs5572]

The BV between using a 4Lz and a 4S is 80.49 vs 80.21. It’s losing the second lutz that cost her. A full point off that, plus not being able to backloads the +3T. It’s virtually a tie. However, I think with would be good to her to be able to use the 4S. They said it looked bigger ans more impressive than her 4Lz, meaning it could get a bigger GoE.

The BV between using a 4Lz and a 4S is 80.49 vs 80.21. It’s losing the second lutz that cost her. A full point off that, plus not being able to backloads the +3T. It’s virtually a tie. However, I think with would be good to her to be able to use the 4S. They said it looked bigger ans more impressive than her 4Lz, meaning it could get a bigger GoE.

The backloaded 3T is only worth an additional .42 and backloaded loop vs lutz an additional .10. I don't understand how the difference in BV is so close when a 4Lz is worth 1.8 more than 4S?

 

[natsulian]

Possible Alysa Liu Layouts:

• 3A+2T, 3A, 4Lz, 3Lo / 3Lz+Eu+3S, 3Lz+3T, and 3F (CURRENT)
  • Base Value: 75.41
• 3A+3T, 3A, 4Lz+2T, 4Lz / 3Lz+Eu+3S, 3F, and 3Lo (VERY POSSIBLE)
  • Base Value: 80.04
• 3A+3T, 3A, 4Lz, 4S / 3F+Eu+3S, 3Lz+3T, and 3Lo (MAYBE)
  • Base Value: 81.56
• 3A+3T, 3A, 4Lz+2T, 4S / 3Lz+Eu+3S, 3Lz/3F, and 3Lo (NOT LIKELY)
  • Base Value: 78.90 / 78.24
• 3A+3T, 4Lz+2T, 4Lz, 4S / 3A, 3Lz+Eu+3S, and 3F (CRAZY)
  • Base Value: 85.15

Note: The Base Value total is assuming Alysa receives all Level 4s. Also, for her senior program, increase the Base Value by 3.00 points.

Based on Alysa's last two international outings, Alysa receives anywhere between a total of 8-10 GOE. Thus, if she were to go clean with ANY of the last four layouts, her TES would be 87-96 and very near or above 100 as a senior. Let's say that her PCS sits between 57-61 as a junior internationally, her total score would amount to 144-157. With a clean Short, she can score anywhere between 69-73, bringing her total scoring range to about 213-230.

 

[vesperholly]

I think her technique is actually one of the better ones for US junior ladies. She uses her legs and she has a knee bend to die for. The knee bend gives her jumps, especially the combos a certain rhythm which is just next level. As for her lutz, they’re still working on it as she only learned it this year.

I agree - I think her lutz technique is excellent. Not always the strongest landings, but she has fantastic knee bend and reach back, and it's a true lutz with entire body counter-rotation and an outside edge. Curious to know what you think it's lacking @layman.

 

[Frida80]

The backloaded 3T is only worth and additional 4.2 and backloaded loop vs lutz and additional .10. I don't understand how the difference in BV is so close when a 4Lz is worth 1.8 more than 4S?

I did the rescore program on skatingscores.com to hey the base values. It’s an excellent tool.

Here’s where I think the break down is.

4Lz-4S = 11.5 - 9.7 = +1.8

Subtract

Lost bonus +3T= -.42
3Lz - 3Lo= 6.49 - 5.39 = -1.1
= -1.52 lost.

So the total benefit is 1.8-1.52= .28

 

[sjs5572]

I did the rescore program on skatingscores.com to hey the base values. It’s an excellent tool.

Here’s where I think the break down is.

4Lz-4S = 11.5 - 9.7 = +1.8

Subtract

Lost bonus +3T= -.42
3Lz - 3Lo= 6.49 - 5.39 = -1.1
= -1.52 lost.

So the total benefit is 1.8-1.52= .28

Thank you!!

 

[aliona22]

I agree - I think her lutz technique is excellent. Not always the strongest landings, but she has fantastic knee bend and reach back, and it's a true lutz with entire body counter-rotation and an outside edge. Curious to know what you think it's lacking @layman.

She takes off from an outside edge but doesn’t lift off from the pick-in like a Lutz. She pre-rotates it half a rotation on the ice, taking off forward like a loop, then comes down forward and does another half rotation on the ice before the landing.

https://twitter.com/ssdtomoaki/status/1167972164634497026?s=21

 

[natsulian]

She takes off from an outside edge but doesn’t lift off from the pick-in like a Lutz. She pre-rotates it half a rotation on the ice, taking off forward like a loop, then comes down forward and does another half rotation on the ice before the landing.

https://twitter.com/ssdtomoaki/status/1167972164634497026?s=21

We were talking about Isabeau not Alysa.

 

[layman]

I agree - I think her lutz technique is excellent. Not always the strongest landings, but she has fantastic knee bend and reach back, and it's a true lutz with entire body counter-rotation and an outside edge. Curious to know what you think it's lacking @layman.

It's Isabeau's high kick of the free-leg (that reminds me of Caroline Zhang's lutz technique) that he has me worried about the long term stability of the jump. I would like her lutz to be text-book like Elizaveta Tuktamusheva's, so that she can rely on it as she grows.

I really like Isabeau's rotating position though. She pulls in really tightly and holds her legs (ankles) close together while pointing her feet (very much like Sasha Cohen).

 

[vesperholly]

It's Isabeau's high kick of the free-leg (that reminds me of Caroline Zhang's lutz technique) that he has me worried about the long term stability of the jump. I would like her lutz to be text-book like Elizaveta Tuktamusheva's, so that she can rely on it as she grows.

I see no high kick, her leg is in line with her body: https://i.imgur.com/rltDIw5.png

She could stand up straighter, though.

 

[vesperholly]

She takes off from an outside edge but doesn’t lift off from the pick-in like a Lutz. She pre-rotates it half a rotation on the ice, taking off forward like a loop, then comes down forward and does another half rotation on the ice before the landing.

https://twitter.com/ssdtomoaki/status/1167972164634497026?s=21

Agree with all of this but yes I was talking about Levito not Liu

 

[natsulian]

Mariah Bell's page on the USFSA website has been updated ahead of Nebelhorn Trophy this week:

Short Music: "Radar" and "Work B****" by Britney Spears
Long Music: "Hallelujah" by KD Lang

Link: https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=74

"Radar" by Britney Spears:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PctD-8y0FRg
"Work B****" by Britney Spears: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt8VYOfr8To
"Hallelujah" by KD Lang: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oZN2eTgvVs

 

[Tinami Amori]

I am starting to pay attention, and to like Mia Kalin, who just skated few days ago at 2019 US Novice & Junior Challenge Skate in SLC. She came in 2nd.

Her recent skate is not yet on video, but an earlier one is. Would love to hear what people think about her performances and ranking against others in her group, nationally.

Mia Kalin 2019 Skate St. Moritz Junior FS

9.8.2019 Skate St. Moritz — Oakland Mia (11) Coach: Vadim Shebeco Choreographer: Evgenia Chernyshova Music: The Crown, Hans Zimmer / Palladio, Escala Instagr...

www.youtube.com

Mia Kalin – Junior SP – May 2019 Spring Jubilee, San Jose

May 18, 2019 Mia (11) Coach: Vadim Shebeco Choreographer: Evgenia Chernyshova Music: George Davidson/Joie de Vivre Instagram: mia.kalin_skates

www.youtube.com

Learning 3A

pauldeb89 on Twitter

“Just for sake of informing: Mia Kalin, 11 yo from St Moritz Ice Skating Club (same as Alysa Liu, but different coach), training an off-ice 3A https://t.co/Au1MlszQRb”

twitter.com

 

[Sylvia]

I am starting to pay attention, and to like Mia Kalin, who just skated few days ago at 2019 US Novice & Junior Challenge Skate in SLC. She came in 2nd.

Her recent skate is not yet on video

Challenge Skate Junior Ladies FS replay video was posted earlier in this thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/u-s-ladies-27-a-time-to-reboot.105854/page-16#post-5643777

Kalin's Skate St. Moritz Junior FS video also was posted earlier in this thread with a few comments: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/u-s-ladies-27-a-time-to-reboot.105854/page-10#post-5633190

There's a thread for the Novice & Junior Challenge Skate in SLC competition in Kiss & Cry where I've posted results and video links: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...-skate-sept-19-22-salt-lake-city-utah.106019/

 

[Tinami Amori]

Challenge Skate Junior Ladies FS replay video was posted earlier in this thread: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/u-s-ladies-27-a-time-to-reboot.105854/page-16#post-5643777

Kalin's Skate St. Moritz Junior FS video also was posted earlier in this thread with a few comments: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/u-s-ladies-27-a-time-to-reboot.105854/page-10#post-5633190

There's a thread for the Novice & Junior Challenge Skate in SLC competition in Kiss & Cry where I've posted results and video links: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...-skate-sept-19-22-salt-lake-city-utah.106019/

I saw the video fro the Challenge Skate, and that's what solidified my interest. Thanks for refs to previous discussions.

 

[Sylvia]

Thanks for refs to previous discussions.

You first asked about Mia Kalin back in April (scroll down for more posts): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ll-boots-and-camel.105458/page-3#post-5569794

 

[Tinami Amori]

You first asked about Mia Kalin back in April (scroll down for more posts): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ll-boots-and-camel.105458/page-3#post-5569794

You're right! i forgot i did. but at least i am on the right track...

 

[melanieg]

I am starting to pay attention, and to like Mia Kalin, who just skated few days ago at 2019 US Novice & Junior Challenge Skate in SLC. She came in 2nd.

Her recent skate is not yet on video, but an earlier one is. Would love to hear what people think about her performances and ranking against others in her group, nationally.

Mia Kalin 2019 Skate St. Moritz Junior FS

9.8.2019 Skate St. Moritz — Oakland Mia (11) Coach: Vadim Shebeco Choreographer: Evgenia Chernyshova Music: The Crown, Hans Zimmer / Palladio, Escala Instagr...

www.youtube.com

Mia Kalin – Junior SP – May 2019 Spring Jubilee, San Jose

May 18, 2019 Mia (11) Coach: Vadim Shebeco Choreographer: Evgenia Chernyshova Music: George Davidson/Joie de Vivre Instagram: mia.kalin_skates

www.youtube.com

Learning 3A

pauldeb89 on Twitter

“Just for sake of informing: Mia Kalin, 11 yo from St Moritz Ice Skating Club (same as Alysa Liu, but different coach), training an off-ice 3A https://t.co/Au1MlszQRb”

twitter.com

Looking at her protocols, last year as a 10 year old Novice Mia was doing triple triples but getting level 1s, 2s and maybe a 3 on her spins. This year age 11, her 3Lz 3Ts have been consistent and clean, and she got ALL level 4 spins in her junior short at Challenge Skate over the weekend. In her long it looks like she got level 3 and 4 spins. It also looks like she was the only one of all novice and junior skaters to land two clean 3Lz3Ts with plus GOEs (she executed seven triples in the freeskate including two triple triples (fell on a solo lutz). She is still not getting high PCS but her performance and skating skills seems to be steadily improving along with her already strong jumps, which only seem to be getting bigger and more consistent.

 

[Sylvia]

USFS filmed this 2 minute IGTV video with Amber Glenn in Dallas a few weeks ago: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2z1-qCAr5V/

Also can be viewed on Twitter: https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/1176617304978800648

 

[Tinami Amori]

Looking at her protocols, last year as a 10 year old Novice Mia was doing triple triples but getting level 1s, 2s and maybe a 3 on her spins. This year age 11, her 3Lz 3Ts have been consistent and clean, and she got ALL level 4 spins in her junior short at Challenge Skate over the weekend. In her long it looks like she got level 3 and 4 spins. It also looks like she was the only one of all novice and junior skaters to land two clean 3Lz3Ts with plus GOEs (she executed seven triples in the freeskate including two triple triples (fell on a solo lutz). She is still not getting high PCS but her performance and skating skills seems to be steadily improving along with her already strong jumps, which only seem to be getting bigger and more consistent.

Thank you! i was hopping for opinions and analysis.

 

[layman]

I see no high kick, her leg is in line with her body: https://i.imgur.com/rltDIw5.png

She could stand up straighter, though.

I think that's the key to it. When you bend forward at the waist in the entry, the free leg flies up. Tuktamusheva does not bend forward but holds her back up straight. Her free-leg does not fly up. The pick goes in efficiently and she gets spectacular lift from it.

Holding her back up would not only help Isabeau's jumps but also her spiral positions and just improve her overall look on the ice.

 

[Sylvia]

ETA:

Hopefully this article link works to read the March 2019 SKATING magazine article on the U.S. Intermediate Ladies medalists that includes quotes from the coaches of champ Lindsay Thorngren (Julia Lautowa) and silver medalist Isabeau Levito (Yulia Kuznetsova).

 

[Firedancer]

New article on Mariah Bell ahead of Nebelhorn:
https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2019/09/26/nebelhorn-marks-fresh-start-for-mariah-bell/