U.S. Ladies [#25]: Method in the Madness

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Firedancer

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I thought Mariah’s PCS seemed a bit low as well, especially performance, interpretation and composition. Hope she can skate just as well in the FS.
 

Jarrett

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I don't get the Ting hype. I have not seen anything that makes me think "WOW" She's a nice skater but so far the skating I have seen has not lived up tot he FSU "Hype". (Which apparently is acceptable unlike the NBC "hype" LOL!)
From a casual skating fan perspective my spouse focused on Ting when he first saw her in Juniors last year and again this year in Seniors. He said she was floating around and I would have to agree. In person it doesn't even look like Ting is touching the ice and is floating above it. When she jumps, her position in the air appears so tight and fluid. I really enjoy her skating but I also see the faults (the constant bobbles and stumbles) but to me she has a better package than most of the U.S. skaters. I hate to hype her because I know where this goes... me having to watch her as an uber like Michelle, Sasha and Mirai with my stomach upset the entire time. If anything she reminds me of Karen Kwan but with the harder jumps and I always like watching Karen.
 
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DimaToe

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It was expected. The talent is there but it had been brought up before how the post 2018 crop of skaters might not be able to “keep up”
 

Debbie S

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Remember that Bradie and Mariah have only been competing at the World level for a couple seasons. And Ting, Hanna, Alysa are newcomers and still getting used to competing at the highest level. They will have their good days and bad days. Since MK retired, fans (and I'll include myself in this group) have been searching for 'the next great American lady' - I think we need to think about what means today and be realistic about what even the most talented skater will achieve over the course of their career. With the technical demands and increased risks in skating today, it's going to be highly unlikely to have a skater like Michelle Kwan - consistent over many comps over many years. Look at Med and Zag - even they turned out to be human.
 

natsulian

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It was expected. The talent is there but it had been brought up before how the post 2018 crop of skaters might not be able to “keep up”
Everyone’s tired. I mean... you had people singling axels and falling on jumps they had never fallen on during throughout the entire season. Mind you, only a few of the pre-2018 US ladies scored 190+ internationally consistently... and Bradie and Mariah have been scoring 190-210 regularly.
 
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Watching the ice desk, dear lord get Wagner out of there, she just won't let anyone else talk.
 

Tinami Amori

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Watching the ice desk, dear lord get Wagner out of there, she just won't let anyone else talk.
:D that's nothing new, she'll be in-your-face no matter what she does, even if gets 3 tweeters, 5 facebook and 3 IG accounts.
 

GullyGirl84

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Everyone’s tired. I mean... you had people singling axels and falling on jumps they had never fallen on during throughout the entire season. Mind you, only a few of the pre-2018 US ladies scored 190+ internationally consistently... and Bradie and Mariah have been scoring 190-210 regularly.
Yeah, but you can't really compare scores from before the new GOE spread that took affect this season (aside from the inflation that has occurred the past few years), though Mariah and Bradie have generally been skating well and I'm not ready to write them off after this. It was great to see their clean shorts, especially from Mariah, but they weren't particularly favored to medal here due to the depth of the Japanese field. The real surprise was Elizabet, and it will be interesting to see how she does at worlds. They do have an opportunity to score well at worlds, especially with the state of the Canadian ladies field/volatility of the Russian field. 4CC is so close to US nationals that (even though the competition was in the US) I wasn't exactly holding my breath. Even though Ting is not consistent yet, I do think that she could have gotten burned out at the JR worlds camp, though fans are always complaining that there needs to be more opportunities for internal competitions between US skaters, so I guess we can't have it both ways.
 

DimaToe

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Remember that Bradie and Mariah have only been competing at the World level for a couple seasons. And Ting, Hanna, Alysa are newcomers and still getting used to competing at the highest level. They will have their good days and bad days. Since MK retired, fans (and I'll include myself in this group) have been searching for 'the next great American lady' - I think we need to think about what means today and be realistic about what even the most talented skater will achieve over the course of their career. With the technical demands and increased risks in skating today, it's going to be highly unlikely to have a skater like Michelle Kwan - consistent over many comps over many years. Look at Med and Zag - even they turned out to be human.
I don’t think most fans are expecting another Kwan. To me at least Kwan never comes to mind when I look at the current U.S. ladies field nor did it back in the past. IMO it’s just strange that back to back “good” competitions can’t be had. We need to stop using Kwan as an expectation and an excuse.
 

mtnskater

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4 Continents always seems to be difficult for US skaters because it is always so close on the heels of US Nationals. However, how did the ladies have such great shorts only to look like different skaters in the free?!?

Mariah needs to get that killer instinct and believe she deserves it. I love her and always root for her, but the mistakes always happen.

Bradie really needs to not rush in the free, take her time to perform the movements. She badly needs new packaging (hair/dresses). She needs to get down in those knees so she doesn’t under rotate. Next season I really hope for changes and new choreographers and maybe coaches. Wish she could at least spend the summer with Mi Hamada and drill those skating skills and body line/movement.

I am worried about Ting. So much potential but so many epic melt downs. I know she is still very young and new to Senior internationals. But she may not have the mental toughness and I don’t know if that can really be overcome. Hard because I clearly see how great she could be.

Not sure what USFS should do...or can do. But they really need to come up with something to help US ladies up their game. My expectations are very tempered for Worlds in Japan.
 

olympic

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I watched the competition on NBC last night and just want to add my $.02

I saw the skating order and knew that both Mariah and Bradie were going to be under a lot of pressure skating right after Kihira. I also felt that if Mariah made mistakes that there would be even more pressure on Bradie as 'the last man standing' for the U.S., so I was hopeful, but not surprised by the results.

Regarding Mariah, she has over time made headway, but if you've noticed, her jump layouts have been simplified in the LP w/ removal of 3-3s and 3-1-3, and she is falling on solo triples and that is not going to cut it. I suppose it is just nerves because she is crafting good technique under Raf's tutelage. Still, in the top tier, 3 Lutzes shouldn't intimidate you.

Regarding Bradie, despite the mistake and the URs (her tech mark circled the drain after review), I did see her fully commit to the LP and every move and facial expression was there, so I'm proud of her for that. I think she was under immense pressure being in 1st place after the SP, so I imagine she tightened up quite a bit.

ETA - I just took a peak at the protocols, and Bradie definitely tightened up: After the 3Z-1L, she UR'd each triple except the 3S. Even w/ the opening mistake, if she had simply rotated all the other triples, she would have won the Silver medal w/ around 212 points. SIGH :(
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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I have no words... speechless.
I know.. All 3 skaters in the top 3 after the SP didnt even end up on the podium.

One thing that seems concerning is that did Bradie get UR calls that weren't UR??? Even Tara and Jonny BOTH were like 'Huh" when watching them back in replay (the UR called jumps) because they dont appear to be UR....

Ting tho.... I have yet to get on her cheer team yet because as with yesterday she has never yet proved to be consistent.... Its like one good SP and Im like...OK, do it again. And she cant. Or one great Free and Im like OK, do it again.. and she cant.

We shall see.

Mariah, though I love her, has yet to ever prove to me she is consistent.

Hope is not lost though. I do feel like the future is going to be OK.

I LOVE Bradie's SP..It so suits her... but like Cinderella last year Im not sure R&J is her... its more her than Cinderella....but I think she should stick with intense and fast paced music. I also would love to see a hair change for her. A pony, A bob..something that isn't a bridal or medieval bun.
 

mag

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One thing that seems concerning is that did Bradie get UR calls that weren't UR??? Even Tara and Jonny BOTH were like 'Huh" when watching them back in replay (the UR called jumps) because they dont appear to be UR....
Bradie’s UR’s were clear as day on the replay and many were obvious in real time.
 

Tahuu

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Not looking optimistic for gaining 3 ladies’ spots at worlds by Bradie and Mariah next month.

Ting’s trouble seems more to her weak body core strength to me, probably due to her age and long limb build. Hanna has stronger core strength and better jumping techniques. We’ll see they fare at junior worlds.
 

Spun Silver

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I LOVE Bradie's SP..It so suits her... but like Cinderella last year Im not sure R&J is her... its more her than Cinderella....but I think she should stick with intense and fast paced music. I also would love to see a hair change for her. A pony, A bob..something that isn't a bridal or medieval bun.
Medieval bun, LOL. I'd like to see her in a Larkin Austman pixie cut. (Intentionally misspelling Larkin for @Vagabond's benefit.) :) I don't understand why she and her team are so stubborn about making her look like the Farmer's Daughter. https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1c/66/92/1c66929e47c3085ce154397721984c56--loretta-young-the-farmer.jpg
If she would buy into the reality that she's a modern power skater and not a romantic heroine I would join #TeamBradie. I hope she can fix those URs - that's just sad.
 

DimaToe

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One wonders if it is a mental game, Bradie was labeled as the one U.S. lady that didn’t UR her jumps but lacked in presentation, but once she worked on presentation those carrots soon followed.
 

Edgecase

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Bradie’s UR’s were clear as day on the replay and many were obvious in real time.
Yes, she was a little tight. However I would have given the 3-loop full credit and instead judged the *double* loop at the end of the combo as UR. I felt that there was a general inconsistency in UR's that were called or not called throughout the entire ladies event. I would have called Rika's 3-loop as under, for example.
 

Bonjour Sherry

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All the doom and gloom about U.S. ladies after the free skate is unwarranted, IMO. Mariah and Bradie did not have their best long programs, but they were decent outings and not a disaster by any means. And quite honestly, both skaters have made progress in relation to the rest of the field. We saw that clean Tennell can beat clean Sakamoto in the short program. And in the overall ranking, Bradie was not far behind Kaori even though Kaori skated a respectable long with six triples. Mariah still needs to work on consistency, but it's visibly improved from last year and she usually gets 190s overall, which is a step forward. Both skaters are doing respectably, despite the absence of Ashley and Mirai and Karen being sidelined. We cannot demand that U.S. ladies be a shoo-in for 3 spots every year, or otherwise we are "speechless". The depth of a country's field naturally goes up and down.

Actually, I was expecting South Korea to surpass USA this year in overall ladies' depth, but the opposite has remained true (in the senior field). Although part of it is because Dabin Choi is out of skating this year.
 
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mag

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One wonders if it is a mental game, Bradie was labeled as the one U.S. lady that didn’t UR her jumps but lacked in presentation, but once she worked on presentation those carrots soon followed.
I think the focus on presentation makes it harder to land the jumps cleanly. Also, if you watch the first lutz, she goes in with such speed, but then it is hard to get the loop off the end. She slows down a bit to have more control, but doesn’t get all the way around. The other thing about Bradie, is her jumps have often had a small hook on the end. Add the focus on presentation to the stricter calling where 1/4 and more is < and you get what you get.
 

mag

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Yes, she was a little tight. However I would have given the 3-loop full credit and instead judged the *double* loop at the end of the combo as UR. I felt that there was a general inconsistency in UR's that were called or not called throughout the entire ladies event. I would have called Rika's 3-loop as under, for example.
For Bradie 3lo may depend on the angle. That is not a hill I would die on. I would have given the 2T < and the 2lo <<. I also would have given the 3T <<

Again, we are not necessarily seeing things at the same angle as the panel.

I will look at Rika again.
 
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