U.S. Ladies [#25]: Method in the Madness

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Tinami Amori

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Can people please give me their description of "maturity" in Ladies, in the programmes (other than "by age factor)?

Here is my take on "maturity" (although i do not like this term for a criteria in SPORTS). I will only use US skaters' examples, since this is US ladies topic.

For me "maturity" is finished lines, completing the forms/elements, having tension/power/conviction when doing and finishing elements, and understanding the music/character/theme of the music piece.

Alysa Liu, for me, has this maturity...
https://expo.advance.net/img/2393abe268/width960/776_mjm012519skating06.jpeg
https://i0.wp.com/thefinersports.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Alysa-Liu-2018-Sectionals-FS.png?resize=558,730
https://goldenskate.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Alysa-Liu-1.jpg
https://timedotcom.files.wordpress....-youngest-us-figure-skating-champion-2019.jpg

... and what a much older Bell does, is not "maturity" to me. Because i do not consider "dainty, girly, gentle-feminine gestures" a sign of "maturity". In the matter of fact, i consider using "girly feminine moves" (if they are not part of "character of the programme") to be a form of manipulation/flirtation with the judges, which has no place in official competitions.
http://cdn01.cdn.justjaredjr.com/wp...-makes-history-short-program-us-champs-04.jpg
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...ate-during-the-picture-id1124939348?s=612x612
https://www.nbcsports.com/sites/nbc.../1_nbc_figs_nhkmariahbellfreeskate_181110.jpg

... at the same time i think Bradie Tennell has a lot of "maturity" in her movements and expressions. Understanding the "form/pose" she needs to strike, the movement itself, the mood that goes with it, and "what looks good" in terms of "geometry"...
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/usafs.sidearmsports.com/images/2018/11/8/bradie.jpg
https://www.latimes.com/resizer/Nqp...6/turbine/la-1548532786-ix7uqg38z8-snap-image
https://www.nwherald.com/_internal/cimg!0/jmparj27jg2hawpxcy2lrjdqhot15fz

Also, to me higher age does not equal "maturity"... Expression of "maturity" in a programme is subjective. Should a girl go through few drastic love affairs to "correctly express" the "Ne me quitte pas" programme, and to really know what it means?
 

AxelAnnie

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I think the word maturity is an incorrect descriptor of what is actually being discussed.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. In psychology, maturity is the ability to respond to the environment in an appropriate manner. Maturity also encompasses being aware of the correct time and location to behave and knowing when to act, according to the circumstances and the culture of the society one lives in
Mature could be a good word for: Interpretation/understanding of the music.
I agree with the examples you chose.

I suspect what people are trying to capture with the word "mature" is grace, expression, extension and finished moves. Although those attributes could come as one gets older (mature) they do not necessarily come along.

Lea Salonga who created her role in Miss Saigon was 18. She had not been through a war, had a tortured love affair, given birth to a child. But she perfectly captured the essence of the role.

In skating, Bradie, IMO does a good job. Mariah - not so much. She has about one gear...cute, and she is cute.
Blasting from jump to jump is exciting to watch (and comprehensible to people) but it is the in between stuff where the artistry (and maturity) show up.
 

olympic

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Thoughts on Ting Cui supposedly moving to Raf next season? Raf’s skaters have consistency and great jumps, so hopefully Ting can take advantage of that. Ting needs to stay with a coach consistently, though. Changing coaches every season is not good for her, so I hope she stays with Raf and her dad has found her the coach she needs.
Is Ting going to Raf a sure thing?? I just watched TSL's recap of Jr. Worlds and they said it was a wish of Ting's father.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Can people please give me their description of "maturity" in Ladies, in the programmes (other than "by age factor)?

Here is my take on "maturity" (although i do not like this term for a criteria in SPORTS). I will only use US skaters' examples, since this is US ladies topic.

For me "maturity" is finished lines, completing the forms/elements, having tension/power/conviction when doing and finishing elements, and understanding the music/character/theme of the music piece.

Alysa Liu, for me, has this maturity...
https://expo.advance.net/img/2393abe268/width960/776_mjm012519skating06.jpeg
https://i0.wp.com/thefinersports.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Alysa-Liu-2018-Sectionals-FS.png?resize=558,730
https://goldenskate.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Alysa-Liu-1.jpg
https://timedotcom.files.wordpress....-youngest-us-figure-skating-champion-2019.jpg

... and what a much older Bell does, is not "maturity" to me. Because i do not consider "dainty, girly, gentle-feminine gestures" a sign of "maturity". In the matter of fact, i consider using "girly feminine moves" (if they are not part of "character of the programme") to be a form of manipulation/flirtation with the judges, which has no place in official competitions.
http://cdn01.cdn.justjaredjr.com/wp...-makes-history-short-program-us-champs-04.jpg
https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...ate-during-the-picture-id1124939348?s=612x612
https://www.nbcsports.com/sites/nbc.../1_nbc_figs_nhkmariahbellfreeskate_181110.jpg

... at the same time i think Bradie Tennell has a lot of "maturity" in her movements and expressions. Understanding the "form/pose" she needs to strike, the movement itself, the mood that goes with it, and "what looks good" in terms of "geometry"...
https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/usafs.sidearmsports.com/images/2018/11/8/bradie.jpg
https://www.latimes.com/resizer/Nqp...6/turbine/la-1548532786-ix7uqg38z8-snap-image
https://www.nwherald.com/_internal/cimg!0/jmparj27jg2hawpxcy2lrjdqhot15fz

Also, to me higher age does not equal "maturity"... Expression of "maturity" in a programme is subjective. Should a girl go through few drastic love affairs to "correctly express" the "Ne me quitte pas" programme, and to really know what it means?
Agree. Maturity also to me means how you interpret music through facial expresiions and movement of the body.

For me though I believe you need some life experiences under your belt to interpret more adult music and themes... which is why I could never buy Julia Lip's performance to "No One Gives Up On Love". For me I felt awkward watching that. Tell me, what has a man (or woman) done to you by the tender age of 15.
 

Vagabond

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Doesn't anyone find it ironic that a top JPN lady is named 'Yuna'??
FWIW, the two names do sound different from each other in the skaters' respective native languages. Yuna Shiraiwa's given name (better transliterated as Yūna or Yuuna) has a double "u" sound, Yu-una. Yuna Kim's given name should be transliterated as Yeon-ah or Yeon-a and rhymes more with the Spanish word zona than with luna, but she has used "Yuna" ever since it was mistransliterated in an official document.

Perhaps it would be easier to refer to the 2010 Olympic Champion as 연아 and the current skater as 優奈. ;)
 

Japanfan

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For me "maturity" is finished lines, completing the forms/elements, having tension/power/conviction when doing and finishing elements, and understanding the music/character/theme of the music piece.
I agree but would add: a capability to express one's understanding of the music's character and theme.

Alysa Liu, for me, has this maturity...
Not for me. For me she's just a girl who skates like a girl.

... at the same time i think Bradie Tennell has a lot of "maturity" in her movements and expressions. Understanding the "form/pose" she needs to strike, the movement itself, the mood that goes with it, and "what looks good" in terms of "geometry"...
Also, to me higher age does not equal "maturity"... Expression of "maturity" in a programme is subjective. Should a girl go through few drastic love affairs to "correctly express" the "Ne me quitte pas" programme, and to really know what it means?
IDK. But I wouldn't object if having to go through a few drastic love affairs was prerequisite to skating 'Carmen'. Then we might have less teenage girls who have probably never had a love affair thinking that they and they alone have the capacity to reinvent 'Carmen'.

Same goes for the men who think they can create a unique Carmen.
 

Frida80

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FWIW, the two names do sound different from each other in the skaters' respective native languages. Yuna Shiraiwa's given name (better transliterated as Yūna or Yuuna) has a double "u" sound, Yu-una. Yuna Kim's given name should be transliterated as Yeon-ah or Yeon-a and rhymes more with the Spanish word zona than with luna, but she has used "Yuna" ever since it was mistransliterated in an official document.

Perhaps it would be easier to refer to the 2010 Olympic Champion as 연아 and the current skater as 優奈. ;)
It's simple.

Yuna S
Yuna A

Queen Yuna
 

natsulian

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Ting said that she’s been training Quads and wants to hopefully add them next season. Furthermore, Ting might keep her Short from this season for next season as she debuts in the Senior ranks.

I hope Ting does not add a Quad to her program and really works on her skating skills and putting together two clean programs consistently with 6-7 triples. Instead of a Quad, maybe a 3A as her 2A is already amazing.

Maybe she’ll jump these next season?

3Lz-3T
3Lz-2T-2Lo or 3S-Eu-3F
2A-3T
3F
4S or 4T
2A
3Lo or 3Lz
 

layman

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Ting already jumps most of that. 3Lz-3T and 3F-Eu-3S were her second and third jumping passes respectively in her LP at Junior Worlds. She was going for the 2A-3T but did a 2A-2T instead.

I think of any quad she could get, it would be the 4Lz, as she has a great deal of spring and height on her 3Lz. I also think she could get the 3A (especially if she stays with Tom) because her 2A also has a great deal of spring and height.

Hannah Harrell could get a 4Lz too as her 3Lz is HUGE.
 

natsulian

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Planned Program Content

Bradie TENNELL
  • Short Program: (3Lz-3T, 2A, and 3F)
  • Long Program: (2A, 3Lz-3T, 3F, 2A, 3Lz-3T, 3Lo-2T-2Lo, and 3S)
Mariah BELL
  • Short Program: (2A, 3Lz-3T, and 3F)
  • Long Program: (2A-3T, 3Lo, 3F-2T, 2A, 3Lz-2T-2Lo, 3F, and 3Lz)
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Planned Program Content

Bradie TENNELL
  • Short Program: (3Lz-3T, 2A, and 3F)
  • Long Program: (2A, 3Lz-3T, 3F, 2A, 3Lz-3T, 3Lo-2T-2Lo, and 3S)
Mariah BELL
  • Short Program: (2A, 3Lz-3T, and 3F)
  • Long Program: (2A-3T, 3Lo, 3F-2T, 2A, 3Lz-2T-2Lo, 3F, and 3Lz)
Bradie is taking out the 3lutz/3loop

In the free tho she's gonna do the 3lutz/3toe two times?

What would be the base of all these programs???
 

Firedancer

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I wish Mariah had a 3-3 in the FS. But I wish she had been doing it all season so she would be prepared to do it now. I am happy to see Bradie is doing 3Lz-3T instead of the 3Lz-3Lo. The 3Lz-3Lo just hasn’t been working.

Good luck to Mariah and Bradie this week!
 

Marco

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For Mariah Bell, doing a 3lutz3toe and 2axel gets her the same points as doing a 2axel3toe and 3lutz, so why need the 3/3? She would need to do both to be competitive for a top 5 finish, but that means she needs to go for a 3sal.
 

wickedwitch

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Mariah could do a 2A-.5L-3S if she wanted to get in that 7th triple. That's the only layout change that makes sense for her. She's done x-.5L-3S combos in the past.
 
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