U.S. Ladies [#23]: Triple Axels? What a Novice Idea!

[mag]

I liked that dress, and she moves and is built like a ballerina.

I like the dress too. At this stage in her development I think it is a better use of money to spend it on her training rather than on more expensive dresses.

 

[aftershocks]

Mariah's fp at Nebelhorn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksECHO7lGHY

I love both her programs and costumes. She looks good and hopefully she learned from the fp outing's several miscues. It's understandable to feel pressure. What's going to be key is maintaining fierce desire in order to manage nerves under competitive pressure. Those were all nervous mistakes by Mariah, not really any lack of ability to skate clean. Maybe it would be helpful for her to learn relaxation techniques and not think too much. Just go out there and focus on feeling the music and working the performance.

In the kiss 'n cry, Mariah was overheard telling Raf, "I need more cardio for the second half." Surely that helps with endurance, but nerves are also a factor in her popping planned triples into doubles and being slightly shaky and hesitant on landings. Again, a good learning experience if she learns from it and applies what she learns. She did allow this opportunity to get away from her, even though she maintained a 4th place position overall. Still, she was very close to 2nd and 3rd place positions in the sp and she did have a good opportunity to battle for a medal. By looking clearly at what happened in the fp and being honest about it, she might find a way to conquer her nerves. She's got great programs, a great coach, and everything is possible.

 

[kalle]

I am quite hopeful for the American ladies this season. Bradie is leading the way and you can almost feel her "hunger" for success with all the work she has put into her programs both technically and style wise. Mariah showed us again when skating clean (SP), she is scoring very well and even though she always praised training with Ashley, I think it is a different dynamic now when she is the leading American lady in Rafs group.
If Ting is going senior and find some consistency, she also has the goods to fight right up there.
A sport is always starts to be "boring" when one nation is dominating like with Russia for the moment. Although I really like for example Zagitova, it is impossible to understand how she could recently score 5 (?) points higher in the SP PCS wise than for example Leona that for me had an equally well (or even better) constructed SP with great speed, spins, jumps and attention to details in the choregraphy..

I wonder how is it going for Karen Chens recovery and I still have hopes Angela Wang and Amber Glenn will be able to put it together in competitions!

 

[Tinami Amori]

A sport is always starts to be "boring" when one nation is dominating like with Russia for the moment.

If success is legally earned then "boring" is not an issue. Do better than the winner/s, and don't rely on "social engineering" or "leveling the playing field".

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

She can come back, but I just don't think it's going to happen. The U.S. ladies seem to possibly reaching an upswing by 2020.

I'm sure she had an injury. But, I think loosing to Gracie in 2016 was also an isuue. Judges just not going to let her win. (maybe I believe this a little. Gracie was great that night.)

 

[Bulletsdad]

If success is legally earned then "boring" is not an issue. Do better than the winner/s, and don't rely on "social engineering" or "leveling the playing field".

You mean "social enhineering" as in the scoring bump for skaters from powerful feds? {{{{{sarcasm}}}}}

 

[haribobo]

Senior Ladies ranked by Intl score- and which sectional they would be in- thanks unseenskaters for the bye and section info....

Bradie Tennell 206- BYE
Mariah Bell 188- BYE
Ashley Lin 181 M
Ting Cui 172 E
Amber Glenn 166 M
Courtney Hicks 164- BYE
Pooja Kalyan 160 M
Starr Andrews 159- BYE
Katie McBeath 154 E
Akari Nakahara 147 P
Brynne McIsaac 146 P
Megan Wessenberg- 143 E
Maxine Bautista 128 M
Angela Wang TBD - BYE
Gracie Gold TBD- BYE
Karen Chen TBD- BYE
Hanna Harrell TBD M

Projected fields for Senior Ladies - Sectionals-

EAST- Ting Cui, Katie McBeath, Megan Wessenberg, Heidi Munger, Julia Biechler, Emmy Ma, Rena Ikenishi, Kristine Levitina

MIDS- Lin, Glenn, Kalyan, Bautista, Harrell, H Miller, J Shi, Moree, Chan, Hilmer, Rydberg

PACS
Nakahara, McIsaac, A Liu, N Do, Kulik, Mischuk, Venetta, Shilling, Kurtz

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

^^^^ So a projected field of 35?

 

[Bulletsdad]

^^^^ So a projected field of 35?

Only four skaters qualify out of each sectional. So, 12 skaters from sectionals and about eight skaters with byes if you include Mirai.

 

[Coco]

Regarding Mariah wanting more cardio for the second half, I really do believe that fitness equals concentration.

Being out of breath is an enormous distraction. Knowing that you don't feel quite right can let doubts creep in and lead to "nervous" mistakes.

 

[VGThuy]

Regarding Mariah wanting more cardio for the second half, I really do believe that fitness equals concentration.

Being out of breath is an enormous distraction. Knowing that you don't feel quite right can let doubts creep in and lead to "nervous" mistakes.

I think that’s a very accurate assessment.

 

[aftershocks]

Regarding Mariah wanting more cardio for the second half, I really do believe that fitness equals concentration.

Being out of breath is an enormous distraction. Knowing that you don't feel quite right can let doubts creep in and lead to "nervous" mistakes.

Quite true. But, Mariah has absolutely put in the training and she's prepared. Look at it this way: when you are nervous, that impacts your breathng and your concentration, which takes up energy. I think Mariah is physically prepared, so IMO, it's mostly the nerves and mental hesitation going into jumps that robbed her energy. Dealing with nerves, athletes end up expending more energy than they do when they are relaxed and breathing properly. IOW, Mariah has got to work on feeling relaxed, confident, believing in herself, her preparation and her training. Hands-down that mental preparation and confidence is what worked for Bradie Tennell at AC. Bradie did not overthink or allow any feeling of pressure to detract from her performances. I'm sure Bradie was feeling the butterflies. Everyone does. It's how you manage them that makes the difference.

If you are thinking too much and going out there feeling pressure that's self-imposed or allowing yourself to feel pressure from the outside, you can get into bad habits performance-wise that have little to do with your ability, your talent or your fitness. It's as simple as that.

And that's the reason why I say acknowledge the root cause of running out of energy and feeling tired. Lack of breath in the final minutes and feeling the need for more cardio to help with that, sure. It could also be related to diet and preparation the day of competition. But when those nerves kick in after your name is called and you skate out to center ice, everything can go out the window. In those moments, skaters have to understand how to control and manage the nervy buggers, because as an athlete you are gonna feel out of breath going through a skating program and trying to control butterflies and working hard mentally to turn off the voices in your head.

 

[mag]

Quite true. But, Mariah has absolutely put in the training and she's prepared. Look at it this way: when you are nervous, that impacts your breathng and your concentration, which takes up energy. I think Mariah is physically prepared, so IMO, it's mostly the nerves and mental hesitation going into jumps that robbed her energy. Dealing with nerves, athletes end up expending more energy than they do when they are relaxed and breathing properly.

I would be shocked if Mariah is 100% prepared. Yes, I am sure she is working hard both on and off the ice, but the cardio needed to run a senior long program is built running senior long programs and running them in competition. It is early in the season. Nobody is criticizing Mariah, but she knows she needs to keep working the cardio. She is aiming to peak at Nationals.

 

[vesperholly]

She is aiming to peak at Nationals.

Exactly. I think everyone should keep this in mind while watching early season competitions. Now it's not enough to use the GP series as a fall warm-up for Nationals and Worlds, skaters are using CS to warm up for the GP. That is a lot of high level skating spread out over months.

I really like both of Mariah's programs this season.

 

[jlai]

I actually do not find skaters who competes a gazillion times to be doing better at worlds than skaters who compete less. For every Tukt there is another skater who compete as much as possible and doing just ok at worlds.

 

[Sylvia]

AFAIK, Mariah Bell did not compete in a summer competition so Nebelhorn Trophy was her season debut. She now has received the exciting opportunity to compete her FS again in the coming week in Japan: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...rnival-on-ice-gala.104056/page-2#post-5422698

 

[aftershocks]

I would be shocked if Mariah is 100% prepared. Yes, I am sure she is working hard both on and off the ice, but the cardio needed to run a senior long program is built running senior long programs and running them in competition. It is early in the season. Nobody is criticizing Mariah, but she knows she needs to keep working the cardio. She is aiming to peak at Nationals.

No argument from me in your analysis. As I said, an athlete has to assess and learn from every outing. Obviously, there was pressure and nerves involved too. It behooves an athlete to face up to that as well, and to realize that fighting nerves does take away energy, so it's all connected. The other issue for me, is that I've seen Mariah falter in a similar way before, so I'm going with the tough love approach.

Yep it's early and so she should use this outing as a learning experience but at the same time, there's no need to fool herself. Face up to everything that needs to be addressed, including cardio and including how to best deal with nerves whether they arise from not feeling prepared endurance-wise, or in tandem arising from feeling competitive pressure and self-doubt. Like I said before, Mariah is a beautiful skater and she's got wonderful programs and costumes, and a great coach! Everything is possible for her! She has to believe that and go for it with determination, and not get down on herself. I'm not saying succumb to pressure and criticism. I'm saying look at everything honestly and clear-eyed.

 

[jlai]

AFAIK, Mariah Bell did not compete in a summer competition so Nebelhorn Trophy was her season debut. She now has received the exciting opportunity to compete her FS again in the coming week in Japan: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...rnival-on-ice-gala.104056/page-2#post-5422698

Thanks, Sylvia, for the news. My comment wasn't about Bell, more about the trend for skaters to compete more and more times even pre-GP in the season. If you add in the need to do well in the summer to prepare for the non-GPs as well...it's like these skaters have to do well all the time now...

 

[Sylvia]

Thanks, Sylvia, for the news. My comment wasn't about Bell,

I didn't take your comment to mean Bell necessarily.

more about the trend for skaters to compete more and more times even pre-GP in the season. If you add in the need to do well in the summer to prepare for the non-GPs as well...it's like these skaters have to do well all the time now...

More like some of us fans think "these skaters have to do well all the time" but the skaters themselves should know what specific goals to set for each competition and how, ideally, they should be progressing as the season goes on.

 

[aftershocks]

It's impossible to do well all the time. And 'doing well' is relative. Of course it's about setting goals and pacing oneself. And yes, Nebelhorn is an early season competition for Mariah and she didn't necessarily lose ground placement-wise. However, the judges are making their assessments of skaters' consistency under competitive pressure whether consciously or unconsciously at every competition. Politics is always at play, so it makes it easy for the judges to keep a skater down politically even when they skate well and everything is fairly even with other competitors, if they are seen as inconsistent, or subject to faltering under pressure.

Frankly, I don't think Zagitova, Mihara, or Hendrickx are overall better skaters than Mariah Bell. Zag has the rep, cred, political backing and hardware, but she's not more talented physically or artistically than any of her competitors. In this tough, political sport, if you want it, you gotta step up and grab it. That doesn't mean not ever faltering in competitions over the course of a season. It does mean learning from every outing, knowing what you want, addressing weaknesses, enhancing strengths, being strategic, and taking full advantage of opportunities.

If it's just about the cardio for Mariah, fine. Put the cardio in then. When push comes to shove down the line later in the season at a penultimate moment, and dealing with her nerves hasn't been adequately addressed by Mariah, what will the excuse be then? Hopefully, that will not be the scenario. Hopefully, this will be the learning experience and wake-up call that it should be for Mariah. Skating relaxed and going clean in the sp, the judges gave Mariah good marks. So she should figure out what she needs to do to be more consistently competitive in both programs, under pressure. This was not a terrible outing by Mariah, but anytime I see hesitation on jumps and popping more than one jump in a program, that's not just about needing more cardio, IMHO. There's nothing wrong with mistakes happening. But there are nervous mistakes and there are 'going for it' and coming up short mistakes that are not related to nerves. Battling and winning at the next level requires figuring it out. If Mariah wasn't able to 'go for it' the way she wanted in the fp chiefly due to feeling she lacked enough cardio, then I suppose time will tell and everything will be revealed in time.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Frankly, I don't think Zagitova, Mihara, or Hendrickx are overall better skaters than Mariah Bell.

One can think as one wishes, but the objective measure of a "better skater" are scores and placements. Mariah Bell has NOT placed above Zagitova, Mihara, or Hendrickx in any competitions they jointly attended, nor has received higher scores. At present these 3 are better skaters than Mariah, and that is a fact proven by results.

 

[haribobo]

One can think as one wishes, but the objective measure of a "better skater" are scores and placements. Mariah Bell has NOT placed above Zagitova, Mihara, or Hendrickx in any competitions they jointly attended, nor has received higher scores. At present these 3 are better skaters than Mariah, and that is a fact proven by results.

Well Mariah at 2016 skate america got silver, 2 points ahead of mihara. IMO Loena and Mariah are very close, should be fun to watch them this year.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Well Mariah at 2016 skate america got silver, 2 points ahead of mihara. IMO Loena and Mariah are very close, should be fun to watch them this year.

You're right, Mihara once, her first year out of Jr. in 2016 placed below Bell (who transferred out of Jr. in 2014). Since then she surpassed Bell. That means Mihara is a better skater. "Loena's scores are close" is close but no cigar...

I like Mariah very much, especially this year so far. But i object to "cheering up a skaters" at the expense of others who are for the last 2 years have better placements and results.

 

[Deleted member 19433]

One can think as one wishes, but the objective measure of a "better skater" are scores and placements. Mariah Bell has NOT placed above Zagitova, Mihara, or Hendrickx in any competitions they jointly attended, nor has received higher scores. At present these 3 are better skaters than Mariah, and that is a fact proven by results.

Well Mariah at 2016 skate america got silver, 2 points ahead of mihara. IMO Loena and Mariah are very close, should be fun to watch them this year.

In addition to what haribobo mentions above, Mariah beat Loena at 2017 Worlds (and beat Mai in the SP there). I'm not making any claim about who is better but it's just not true that Mariah hasn't ever placed above any of them when they've competed against each other.

 

[Tinami Amori]

In addition to what haribobo mentions above, Mariah beat Loena at 2017 Worlds (and beat Mai in the SP there). I'm not making any claim about who is better but it's just not true that Mariah hasn't ever placed above any of them when they've competed against each other.

If we can somewhat argue (on merit) Loena vs. Mariah, we certainly can't argue Mariah vs. Zag/Mai, based on scores and placements. Again it is not "against Mariah", just the attitude to put down "others" to cheer up your own without merits.

One thing is for sure, Bradie is improving leaps and bounds, while some stand in a pretty much same place. If anyone the above mentioned 3 non-US ladies, and US ladies should watch out for is Bradie Tennell. She works not just hard, but effectively....

 

[haribobo]

But i object to "cheering up a skaters" at the expense of others who are for the last 2 years have better placements and results.

I think we all agree there...

 

[maureenfarone]

BTW, the top ladies of the world have all had their season opener (I think with the exception of Kostner) and Bradie sits 5th best score-wise. I am happy for her.

Sorry I have been checked out since last season. Is Gracie going to compete soon? Karen Chen?

Karen Chen is scheduled to compete at the GP of Helsinki (formerly COC) Nov 2 - 4. She was spotted 4 or 5 weeks ago with a walking boot on. Don't recall if she did any summer comps and she isn't listed afaik at any of the Challengers. The Chinese fed decided not to host their GP because of refurbishing venues so ISU moved the event to Helsinki.

Gracie is scheduled for Rostelecom Cup Nov 16 - 18. She has not done any summer comps or Challengers. She did attend Champs Camp and probably was monitored there.

 

[aftershocks]

One can think as one wishes, but the objective measure of a "better skater" are scores and placements. Mariah Bell has NOT placed above Zagitova, Mihara, or Hendrickx in any competitions they jointly attended, nor has received higher scores. At present these 3 are better skaters than Mariah, and that is a fact proven by results.

In terms of overall results, mos' definitely up to a point tho' with your across-the-board claims. In terms of talent, Nah! As usual, to each their f'ing own.


The sp scores were close for a reason, with Zagitova given the sizable lead, cuz everything being fairly equal in terms of performances-of-the-moment, will end up with placements based on rep status, politics, and judges' overall impressions of skaters' past results. Unsurprisingly.

I like Mariah very much, especially this year so far. But i object to "cheering up a skaters" at the expense of others who are for the last 2 years have better placements and results.

Your 'objections' don't amount to a hill of beans, but carry on, as you will.

 

[Willin]

Probably a controversial opinion here, but as far as quality of skating I think Mariah is better than at least Loena and Alina. I haven't seen enough of Mihara to judge. However, her being the better skater as far as quality means nothing in this scoring system. What matters is your consistency and ability to milk points out of everything and Alina definitely beats her at that.

 

[Marco]

Is Mariah going to add the loop back in? I am guessing the opening sal at Nebelhorn was supposed to be a loop, and the sal is supposed to be a triple in the lutz - euler - sal combo. Was it the loop or the 3-1-3 that wasn't ready?