U.S. Ladies [#23]: Triple Axels? What a Novice Idea!

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Wow. Mariah Bell has two great programs this season (and superficially, two stunning costumes), and to me, she looked more invested in the performance than she has in the past, even at this early stage of the season. I'm really hoping she can gain some consistency with the jumps and make an impact this season and rise up the standings.

For the time being, at least, this is most optimistic I've been about US ladies in years: Bradie has made major improvements, Bell isn't skating to West Side Story or Chicago, Ting Cui just skated one of the most dynamic SPs from an American lady in years, and Ashley Lin looked strong at Nebelhorn, too. #OptimisimReigns
 
Tinami Amori said:
What i think is not only bad but unethical, is if a US Girl taken by Chinese Federation and wins, stands on the podium under the Chinese Flag and sings Chinese Anthem, and China takes credit for something they BOUGHT and not CREATED. (and it is not about USA vs. China. it is about Country X taking credit for something that belongs to Country Y)
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Chinese officials said they got the idea from watching the Olympics this year because USA had the most amount of athletes competing for other countries. People switch on their own accord a la Alexia Paganini and this time China is offering to invest in their training and development and an almost guaranteed path to the Olympics and international competition. Nobody is being taken against their will and nobody is guaranteed to win anything. People should be able to move as they wish and it would be more unethical if a federation tried to stop them.

Anyway I don't think Ting would switch, she is in a good place right now.
 
binbinwinwin said:
Chinese officials said they got the idea from watching the Olympics this year because USA had the most amount of athletes competing for other countries. People switch on their own accord a la Alexia Paganini and this time China is offering to invest in their training and development and an almost guaranteed path to the Olympics and international competition. Nobody is being taken against their will and nobody is guaranteed to win anything. People should be able to move as they wish and it would be more unethical if a federation tried to stop them.

Anyway I don't think Ting would switch, she is in a good place right now.
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I agree. I sort of hate the lack of autonomy that the athletes have.
 
Azerbaijan has been doing this for years across several sports. Personally I do not feel like someone should be attached to a flag. Beverly Zhou and whatever other skaters choose to represent China instead of USA, it might all come down to opportunity and what support the federations offer, not one being ungrateful or unpatriotic of whatever country they were born and/or raised in. Plus it isn’t the federations that create great athletes. It’s the HARD WORK OF THE ATHLETES
 
DimaToe said:
Azerbaijan has been doing this for years across several sports. Personally I do not feel like someone should be attached to a flag.
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I always suggested that it is time to remove the Flag and Anthem, and handle skating events like Tennis and Golf, where competitors are "individuals" and the "country" is only there for additional identification.

But, as long as Flag and Anthem are there, these two items have meaning and symbolism, which can not be desecrated!!
 
Tinami Amori said:
I always suggested that it is time to remove the Flag and Anthem, and handle skating events like Tennis and Golf, where competitors are "individuals" and the "country" is only there for additional identification.

But, as long as Flag and Anthem are there, these two items have meaning and symbolism, which can not be desecrated!!
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Desecrate seems like too big of a word to use Tinami.
 
DimaToe said:
Desecrate seems like too big of a word to use Tinami.
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But then what do you call a situation, when one stands on a pedestal with a medal, singing country's Anthem and having a Flag raised ONLY BECAUSE he/she was "paid for"? ... it would be a different story if an athlete moved to another country for the right reasons:
- he/she was a child, and parents moved... so he/she is now in a new land..
- there was a revolution/force major and the family had to leave...
- the family had to leave because of force major, but now it is over, and a young person wants to go back to reconnect with "roots"..
- a person is IN LOVE with another country/culture...

.... but not "because they are paying me, i will stand under the flag and sing the anthem"..... that's disgusting!
 
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The Dutch Federation probably didn't give Dianne de Leeuw a florin to skate for the Netherlands, and yet she wound up on the top of that podium in Colorado Springs, most likely moved to tears as she listened to the Wilhelmus. She has lived her whole life in the United States. And somehow, the world (and even the USFSA) survived.

:yawn:
 
alchemy void said:
Wow. Mariah Bell has two great programs this season (and superficially, two stunning costumes), and to me, she looked more invested in the performance than she has in the past, even at this early stage of the season. I'm really hoping she can gain some consistency with the jumps and make an impact this season and rise up the standings.

For the time being, at least, this is most optimistic I've been about US ladies in years: Bradie has made major improvements, Bell isn't skating to West Side Story or Chicago, Ting Cui just skated one of the most dynamic SPs from an American lady in years, and Ashley Lin looked strong at Nebelhorn, too. #OptimisimReigns
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It's clear that the judges are taking Mariah seriously as well, being awarded 70 plus points for the short. I'm thinking a clean free skate would have put her in the high 130s range, too.
 
binbinwinwin said:
Chinese officials said they got the idea from watching the Olympics this year because USA had the most amount of athletes competing for other countries. People switch on their own accord a la Alexia Paganini and this time China is offering to invest in their training and development and an almost guaranteed path to the Olympics and international competition. Nobody is being taken against their will and nobody is guaranteed to win anything. People should be able to move as they wish and it would be more unethical if a federation tried to stop them.
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actually if this is a true free market, and it is ok for a country to approach any athlete in the world, then another country should be ok to counter offer or offer disincentives.

Not that I care greatly about any of this, or who is being nice or whatever, but I find the argument about who is more unethical to be amusing. None of this is nice but if it is a free world then might as well have anything go, and ethics doesn't play into this.

If USFSA approaches a Chinese pair and ask them to switch, I am sure the Chinese fed would be up in arms about it.
 
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jlai said:
actually if this is a true free market, and it is ok for a country to approach any athlete in the world, then another country should be ok to counter offer or offer disincentives.

Not that I care greatly about any of this, or who is being nice or whatever, but I find the argument about who is more unethical to be amusing. None of this is nice but if it is a free world then might as well have anything go.

If USFSA approaches a Chinese pair and ask them to switch, I am sure the Chinese fed would be up in arms about it.
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Chinese pair skaters don’t pay a penny, and actually get a stipend from the national team. On the other hand, there are kids who skate in private clubs in Beijing, taught by former national team members, who even competed at Chinese national championships, and now compete for Hong Long. Like Christy Leung and Maisy Ma both did for a long time. Nobody complained about that.
 
feraina said:
Chinese pair skaters don’t pay a penny, and actually get a stipend from the national team. On the other hand, there are kids who skate in private clubs in Beijing, taught by former national team members, who even competed at Chinese national championships, and now compete for Hong Long. Like Christy Leung and Maisy Ma both did for a long time. Nobody complained about that.
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Leung and Ma are Hong Kong girls, not originally from mainly CHina, no? Leung is a Cantonese last name ,and both have English names. I am asking cause I don't remember for sure. I don't consider them as in the Chinese team, particularly. Also, I don't think HK skating club called them and asked them to leave. In addition, national sentiments come into play more often when it is about a country China is not in cordial relationship with, at least when I was a child living in Chinese cities.

I don't think these are the same situations. I think the current political climate will add to the animosity no matter China recruiting from US or vice versa.
 
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VIETgrlTerifa said:
She can come back, but I just don't think it's going to happen. The U.S. ladies seem to possibly reaching an upswing by 2020.
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I'll give Polina the benefit of the doubt. I do think it's going to happen that she will come back.
Whether she's successful? Maybe. She's an intelligent young woman in college. I assume she's been keeping up with what's happening with US skaters. She's the same age as Bradie, so she must know it's possible for a skater her age to improve and be very competitive for medals. Mirai was 24 when she landed that triple axel. Being away from competition for these couple of seasons might've given her a new perspective or a desire to see how much she can achieve.
She'll have to work like crazy though to get back into competitive shape. The US ladies has gotten even more interesting.
 
Vagabond said:
The Dutch Federation probably didn't give Dianne de Leeuw a florin to skate for the Netherlands, and yet she wound up on the top of that podium in Colorado Springs, most likely moved to tears as she listened to the Wilhelmus. She has lived her whole life in the United States. And somehow, the world (and even the USFSA) survived.

:yawn:
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Yeah, but we had Dottie and her fabulous hairdo at the time
 
Jammers said:
I can see Ting being on the podium at Nationals in the near future if she gets it together. She's a wonderful all around skater with few weaknesses. By the way when's the last time a US Junior lady has scored that high in the SP?
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I think there are more US ladies we can say that about than we can't!
 
BTW, the top ladies of the world have all had their season opener (I think with the exception of Kostner) and Bradie sits 5th best score-wise. I am happy for her.

Sorry I have been checked out since last season. Is Gracie going to compete soon? Karen Chen?
 
Ting looked a bit tentative and nervous in her LP. But what a talent! I had never seen her before and she captured my attention immediately with her fantastic SP. That posture and beautiful upper body movements...she reminded me about Kwan a bit in that sense.
This was surely a good experience for her and cannot wait to see her compete again! Does she have a 2nd assignment?
 
kalle said:
This was surely a good experience for her and cannot wait to see her compete again! Does she have a 2nd assignment?
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This was her 2nd assignment. I think she came in 5th at the previous one.
 
kalle said:
And how well did she score at her 1st assignment? Did she have a stellar SP there too?
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I just watched it. She just messed up her combo. She stumbled out of the lutz and then the second jump wasn't connected. She got slammed on GOE, -5 across the board, and ended up with 2 points and change for the combo. Ugh! But other than that the program was sighingly beautiful. Her PCS were higher than three of the girls who placed above her.
Her FS scores were similar in both events.
 
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