U.S. Ladies [#21]: Wrapped Up with a Neat Little BOW

[Marco]

USFS made the wrong bet. Tough luck. Ashley would at least have been interesting and created attention for the sport while the whole world was watching, like when she was made into a meme four years ago.

If I were Ashley, I wouldn't go to Worlds even if I was asked. You screw me, I screw you. Make USFS forever be the one who made the wrong decision in passing up on her ("if only" - "no one will ever know" - "only US world medalist in this quad"), instead of justifying its decision by placing poorly at Worlds which she most probably will (like Mirai at 4CCs in 2014). It doesn't appear like she has been training much. If US ladies were to lose a spot at this upcoming Worlds anyway, Ashley would be smart to avoid it.

 

[bardtoob]

Disappointing results for our American women at the Olympics. They do not deserve to be crucified,but some of the hand-holding and excuse-making in this thread is systematic of the problems with USA figure skating today . . . Mirai was tired? So were the Russians,Osmond,Miyahara,Kostner,and Choi,yet they all placed ahead . . . I think Bradie had the only acceptable result,although that Cinderella program was too young even for my conservative taste.

Yeah, well Bradie is National Champion. Why didn't Bradie do better? Was Brady lazy? Karen was National Champion last year, was Karen lazy?

Talk about LAZY KAREN CHEN AND BRADIE TENNELL before you talk about the only ladies in the American squad that did something exceptional.

We could have sent Ashley Wagner instead of lazy Karen Chen and Lazy Bradie Tennell and the result would have been no different . . . because Karen and Bradie are lazy.

 

[Frida80]

Remember that this season, Kaetlyn was all over the place, too, and rarely produced clean free skates.

You have to wonder if being the 2017 World Silver medal winner, impacted her mindset, too.

I Think it put a ton of pressure on her. In fact, I think losing nationals may have taken some of that pressure off (and put a lot of it on Gabby unfortunately.) but my theory is simple. If you have a minor mistake on the competition just before the big competition, it’s better. Because it forces you to focus on just that minor mistake and commit yourself into not making it again. That improves your focus on the competition, which yields the best results. Conversely, if you have a perfect program before a major competition, you’ll focus too much on duplicating that program under pressure and make more mistakes.

I’ve seen this happen several times to so many skaters. It’s amazing how the human mind works.

 

[bardtoob]

Why is there nothing about Karen and Bradie from this Olympics?

BECAUSE BRADIE AND KAREN DID NOTHING WORTH NOTING!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I Think it put a ton of pressure on her. In fact, I think losing nationals may have taken some of that pressure off (and put a lot of it on Gabby unfortunately.) but my theory is simple. If you have a minor mistake on the competition just before the big competition, it’s better. Because it forces you to focus on just that minor mistake and commit yourself into not making it again. That improves your focus on the competition, which yields the best results. Conversely, if you have a perfect program before a major competition, you’ll focus too much on duplicating that program under pressure and make more mistakes.

I’ve seen this happen several times to so many skaters. It’s amazing how the human mind works.

That explains why some skaters are better short program skaters, and others, do better in the free.

I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to skate in front of 17,000 screaming fans, trying to concentrate on your program, music, and performance, as well as being relaxed and confident enough in your own training and ability at the same time.

 

[FSfan107]

Yeah, well Bradie is National Champion. Why didn't Bradie do better? Was Brady lazy? Karen was National Champion last year, was Karen lazy?

Talk about LAZY KAREN CHEN AND BRADIE TENNELL before you talk about the only ladies in the American squad that did something exceptional.

We could have sent Ashley Wagner instead of lazy Karen Chen and Lazy Bradie Tennell and the result would have been no different . . . because Karen and Bradie are lazy.

Bradie had a clean Team SP and the highest result in the individual competition, so I would hardly call Mirai the only one who did something great just because she landed her triple axel. Bradie could have done better, but this was her first Olympics or Worlds, unlike the others (and beat them). I don't think any of these ladies are lazy BTW. Not sure why you are raging.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

USFS made the wrong bet. Tough luck. Ashley would at least have been interesting and created attention for the sport while the whole world was watching, like when she was made into a meme four years ago.

If I were Ashley, I wouldn't go to Worlds even if I was asked. You screw me, I screw you. Make USFS forever be the one who made the wrong decision in passing up on her ("if only" - "no one will ever know" - "only US world medalist in this quad"), instead of justifying its decision by placing poorly at Worlds which she most probably will (like Mirai at 4CCs in 2014). It doesn't appear like she has been training much. If US ladies were to lose a spot at this upcoming Worlds anyway, Ashley would be smart to avoid it.

I asked Wagner to marry me and she said, yes. Next year, she's skating for Malaysia.

 

[bardtoob]

Bradie had a clean Team SP and the highest result in the individual competition, so I would hardly call Mirai the only one who did something great just because she landed her triple axel. Bradie could have done better, but this was her first Olympics or Worlds, unlike the others (and beat them). I don't think any of these ladies are lazy BTW. Not sure why you are raging.

You realize that in the event Bradie got a 5th rank while Mirai got a 2nd rank. In other words, Bradie did worse than Mirai in the Team Even by a lot in terms of points.

Bradie got 9th. Mirai got 10th. Karen got 11th.

Bradie is National Champion. Why is a National Champion doing so badly?

Bradie's results are not good in comparison to the Olympic field or her compatriots.

Karen was National Champion last year and finished 4th at Worlds. Why is she doing so badly?

Karen's results are not good in comparison to the Olympic field or her compatriots.

Mirai is the 3rd string American lady and did more things of note than either Bradie or Karen.

How pathetic!

 

[Frida80]

That explains why some skaters are better short program skaters, and others, do better in the free.

I can't even begin to imagine what it would be like to skate in front of 17,000 screaming fans, trying to concentrate on your program, music, and performance, as well as being relaxed and confident enough in your own training and ability at the same time.

Precisely. It’s a “W” effect. Sometimes the effect of a good SP can over pressure a skater for the LP. Conversely, a weak SP can fire someone up for the LP.

The goal most coaches aim for is a gradual rise. The skater gets progressively better and then peaks at world/Olympics. If the skater peaks early in the season, it’s hard to keep the momentum. It’s why the TE can be so costly to a skater. They needed Mirai and Bradie at their best to protect the bronze medal. If we had dominators like D/W, it would’ve been less pressure and thus less effect on them.

Dominators are rare. They feed off the pressure and aim and achieve high results consistently. To get to that confidence level, you need a lot of experience, lots of wins, and plenty of drive and focus. But that takes time.

 

[Vagabond]

If you're trained enough and don't play into distractions, you should be able to do both. If they were only there to focus on the team event, why even go out and compete in the individual? LOL. A lot of excuse-making is going on.

Are you speaking from personal experience as someone who competed in the Team Event the one previous time it was held? (If so, Hi, Gracie!)

The experiences of Julia Lipnitskaya, Evgeni Plushenko, and Mirai Nagasu suggest to this observer that this two-competition format is a lot harder than it looks. :shrug:

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Precisely. It’s a “W” effect. Sometimes the effect of a good SP can over pressure a skater for the LP. Conversely, a weak SP can fire someone up for the LP.

The goal most coaches aim for is a gradual rise. The skater gets progressively better and then peaks at world/Olympics. If the skater peaks early in the season, it’s hard to keep the momentum. It’s why the TE can be so costly to a skater. They needed Mirai and Bradie at their best to protect the bronze medal. If we had dominators like D/W, it would’ve been less pressure and thus less effect on them.

Dominators are rare. They feed off the pressure and aim and achieve high results consistently. To get to that confidence level, you need a lot of experience, lots of wins, and plenty of drive and focus. But that takes time.

In dance too, there is one less hurdle to consider as well. Triples.

 

[FSfan107]

Bradie is National Champion. Why is a National Champion doing so badly?

Bradie got 9th. Mirai got 10th. Karen got 11th.

Bradie's results are not good in comparison to the Olympic field or her compatriots.

Karen's results are not good in comparison to the Olympic field or her compatriots.

Mirai is the 3rd string American lady and did more things of note than either Bradie or Karen.

How pathetic!

Sure she did. Mirai is actually the 2nd string lady, and some billed her as the 1st, especially since she herself said she was the team leader having been to an Olympics before. But go ahead and deflect blame on the others if it makes you feel better. Bradie is the only one I didn't have second-hand embarrassment from on and off the ice.

 

[bardtoob]

Sure she did. Mirai is actually the 2nd string lady, and some billed her as the 1st, especially since she herself said she was the team leader having been to an Olympics before. But go ahead and deflect blame on the others if it makes you feel better. Bradie is the only one I didn't have second-hand embarrassment from on and off the ice.

Because nobody paid attention to Bradie because she is utterly boring.

 

[FSfan107]

Are you speaking from personal experience as someone who competed in the Team Event the one previous time it was held? (If so, Hi, Gracie!)

The experiences of Julia Lipnitskaya, Evgeni Plushenko, and Mirai Nagasu suggest to this observer that this two-competition format is a lot harder than it looks. :shrug:

No obviously I'm not. I don't think the whole thing can be entirely blamed on the team event that's all. I wouldn't include Plushenko as an example though. His body was falling apart already.

 

[FSfan107]

Because nobody paid attention to Bradie.

Really? I kept hearing how NBC was hyping her up. Obviously you're bitter.

 

[bardtoob]

Really? I kept hearing how NBC was hyping her up. Obviously you're bitter.

Yeah, Bradie should have done better.

Maybe she should have been a better skater. She could have tried harder. You have to conclude she is lazy.

USFSA should have sent Ashley Wagner instead of Bradie or Karen. They were worthless.

 

[FSfan107]

Yeah, Bradie should have done better.

Maybe she should have been a better skater. She could have tried harder. You have to conclude she is lazy.

Huh? She was the one who actually got back on track in her programs and placed the best. All 3 should have done better and none of them are lazy.

 

[bardtoob]

Huh? She was the one who actually got back on track in her programs and placed the best. All 3 should have done better and none of them are lazy.

Why part of 9th vs 10th or 11th is good?

Bradie is lazy or she would be doing harder content or practicing not being boring.

 

[wickedwitch]

Other competitors like Kaetlyn and Satoko didn’t put as much emphasis on it and made errors in the TE.

There is no proof this is true. If anything, I would think putting more emphasis on something would increase the pressure and therefore the mistakes.

There are plenty of valid reasons to defend Mirai, so you don't have to make up crap like this, putting down other skaters, to do so.

 

[Vagabond]

I don't think the whole thing can be entirely blamed on the team event that's all.

Actually, you do, unless you have changed your mind in the past hour or so.

If you're trained enough and don't play into distractions, you should be able to do both.

I wouldn't include Plushenko as an example though. His body was falling apart already.

You are engaging in sophistry. Since you believe that if you're well trained enough and don't play into distractions, you should be able to do both, you wouldn't use anyone as an example.

The evidence suggests that he had the training and focus to skate well twice in Sochi, but not three or four times and that he knew it (as reflected in his apparent belief that Maxim Kovtun could replace him in the Men's competition).

 

[FSfan107]

Why part of 9th vs 10th or 11th is good?

Bradie is lazy or she would be doing harder content or practicing not being boring.

Bradie has hard content which she more consistently hits than any other U.S. woman. It was surely better than Mirai's effort. Her program is also more complete not filled with empty choreography and crossovers.

 

[bardtoob]

Bradie has hard content which she more consistently hits than any other U.S. woman. It was surely better than Mirai's effort. Her program is also more complete not filled with empty choreography and crossovers.

She hit a couple of times doing nothing that threatened even Kostner. Big woop.

Where is Bradie's triple-triple with a 3Lp as the 2nd jump? Where is Bradie's 3A? Where is Bradie's 4S?

 

[FSfan107]

Actually, you do, unless you have changed your mind in the past hour or so.


You are engaging in sophistry. Since you believe that if you're well trained enough and don't play into distractions, you should be able to do both, you wouldn't use anyone as an example.

The evidence suggests that he had the training and focus to skate well twice in Sochi, but not three or four times and that he knew it (as reflected in his apparent belief that Maxim Kovtun could replace him in the Men's competition).

Excuse me, I entered into the conversation saying you can't blame these sub-par performances entirely on the team event. If you want to coddle the skaters and give excuses, go ahead.

 

[FSfan107]

She hit a couple of times doing nothing that threatened even Kostner. Big woop.

Where is Bradie's triple-triple with a 3Lp as the 2nd jump? Where is Bradie's 3A? Where is Bradie's 4S?

Where was Mirai's triple axel in the individual event? Whoops.

 

[bardtoob]

Where was Mirai's triple axel in the individual event? Whoops.

IN THE SHORT PROGRAM!

There it is. Right there. 3A. 8.50 Base Value. -3 GOE.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1718/owg2018/OWG2018_LadiesSingleSkating_SP_Scores.pdf

 

[bardtoob]

Excuse me, I entered into the conversation saying you can't blame these sub-par performances entirely on the team event. If you want to coddle the skaters and give excuses, go ahead.

Yeah. It was entirely Bradie's fault that she got 5th in the Team SP, 11th in the Single SP, and 9th int he Singles LP.

 

[FSfan107]

IN THE SHORT PROGRAM!

Look, I'm done with your ridiculous attacks and this conversation. No one has anything to brag about.

 

[bardtoob]

Look, I'm done with your ridiculous attacks and this conversation. No one has anything to brag about.

 

[Frida80]

There is no proof this is true. If anything, I would think putting more emphasis on something would increase the pressure and therefore the mistakes.

There are plenty of valid reasons to defend Mirai, so you don't have to make up crap like this, putting down other skaters, to do so.

I’m not making up anything or putting down anyone. Japan was not aiming for a team medal, therefore Satoko could use it as a practice run to test out Olympic ice with no pressure. By the time Kaetlyn Skated, Team Canada had a six point lead that couldn’t be made up by Russia. She could also use this as a practice run with less pressure.

By the time Mirai took the ice, USA only had a two point lead over Italy. The team coach clearly put pressure on Adam, the Shibs, and Mirai. I could tell by all their interviews that the team was very nervous about losing bronze and how important the last day was. Therefore, Mirai was under a lot of pressure to perform that day.

Contrast that to Sochi, where there was way less pressure because the point difference couldn’t be touched.

Both Satoko and Kaetlyn were medal favorites, so their coaches knew not to put too much pressure on them for the TE, and kept their energy focused on the individual. Mirai was never up for a individual medal. In fact, I’m sure team USA didn’t think they would be challenged for the team bronze. My preliminary estimates had a massive gap between Italy and the USA. But Italy came to win a medal, which shook up the plan. They over performed in men’s, pairs, and ladies. Suddenly a practice skate turned into do or die time in an instant. Unfortunately, that takes a lot of energy and mental focus and is hard to follow up.

I already predicted before the Olympics, if Mirai skated a clean program in the TE she would underperform in the individual event. So I personally hoped that she would have a minor error in her TE skate or not skate at all so she’d perform better.

It’s not a coincidence that Kaetlyn, Satoko, and Kaori had errors in the TE and then skated much better in the individual event. They were able to get their nerves out, while leaving their best skate for later. It’s a great strategy that clearly worked.

 

[missing]

I asked Wagner to marry me and she said, yes. Next year, she's skating for Malaysia.

Mazel tov to you and Malaysia.