U.S. Ladies [#21]: Wrapped Up with a Neat Little BOW

[Willin]

They come from the same town or county or something in California. Plus after 4CCs, Kristi apparently stepped in with a pep talk and took Karen under her wing. U.S. fed appears to strongly back Karen too for some reason. On the Olympic Ice broadcast post the ladies fp last evening, Kristi was taking up a lot for Karen. Charlie White was kind too but he pointed out the constructive fact that Karen jumps very high but she doesn't rotate fast enough to be able to control her landings. Charlie said Karen needs to fix her jump technique miscues. I would add that Karen needs to develop a stronger competitive mentality. Flashes of brilliance will not cut it in this sport.

I know they're from the same home town, but neither lives there any more. Kristie lives about 40 minutes away while Karen's lived in LA for at least a couple years now. I don't even know if Kristi skates at that rink any more (I thought she/her daughter mainly skated in Oakland and San Jose). I just don't know how they could realistically do much in the way of mentoring other than texts back and forth.

I agree that Karen needs a better mentality. The thing about the boot problems that annoys me the most is that she seems to use it as an excuse for a poor performance. Yesterday she said she had the boot problem before the performance and implied that she knew she wasn't going to skate well. Where was the back-up pair? Wasn't there a skate technician to help out? You'd think US skaters would be conscious of that after Nathan's issue. Heck, Mirai had a skate bottom split in half mid-skate and still killed that program.
I'm almost wondering if it's a self-fulfilling prophecy: she had a boot problem, became paranoid about boots, and now thinks her boots are bad whenever she has a mistake at competition. The fact that she's gone through so many pairs of skates and so many brands heavily suggests this - that it's a confidence issue. I think that's why Mirai could power through her boot problem and Nathan's didn't lead to complete disaster - they knew they could compete even if their skates were in bad shape. They trusted that their training would get them through the problem. Karen needs to learn to trust herself and her training enough that a boot problem won't affect her.

 

[Cleo1782]

I hate to doubt an athlete, particularly one as nice as Karen, but with this many boot issues girl needs to start getting more specific. At this point "boot issues" seems to be code for "I'm really nervous and I don't know if I'll do well." I think she'd be better off confidence and performance wise if she started to admit she had nerves.

Does anyone have the inside scoop on the Kristi Yamaguchi-Karen Chen connection? I've always wondered if that's an invention for the media or an actual thing. After all, Kristi lives near San Francisco, but long before this mentorship thing started Karen moved to LA in order to train. I could see occasional texting between them, but actual frequent mentoring?

It's a mentoring program the USFS uses based on interest in athletes from former elite skaters. I think it's up to the mentor how involved they are. Usually there is monitoring and pep talks. Kristi also mentored a few other skaters like junior pair team from the late 2000's Chau/Tanovich. Kristi has been involved with Karen since she won Novice several years ago, perhaps before that. I thought Kristi had some involvement with Zhou too. The only other mentor situations I can remember are Boitano/Alissa Cziny and Hamill/Flatt. I know most skaters don't have one, but I believe Kristi also contributes to training expenses. I have seen Boitano pull Cziny aside and talk to her after poor performances as well.
ETA-I recall Judy Blumberg was Evora/Ladwig's mentor too. I believe Michael Weiss, Paul Wylie, and Elaine Zayak served as mentors as well. I can't remember who they mentored I think Weiss mentored former Junior Champ Elizabeth Kwon (shared a coach) and Zayak may have been Sam Cesarios ( again a coaching connection) but I am not positive about that.

 

[jiejie]

I'm almost wondering if it's a self-fulfilling prophecy: she had a boot problem, became paranoid about boots, and now thinks her boots are bad whenever she has a mistake at competition. The fact that she's gone through so many pairs of skates and so many brands heavily suggests this - that it's a confidence issue.

Even more than that, IMO she's now using the "boot problem" as an advance excuse in case she goofs up the next big competition--which in her case, is Worlds next month. After the last round of boot issues where she supposedly tried all sorts of brands and models, this should have been resolved. I just can't buy into the 2018 updated version of this story. She might have a foot problem, she might have a confidence problem as you say, but I strongly doubt it's the boots. I also don't think sticking with Gambill is helping her out either to fix her technical issues or to develop a consistently killer competitive mindset.

I guess deep down, I'm hoping USFS will pull Chen out of Worlds and substitute Wagner (if Ashley is willing). I would be surprised if the current Chen could pull a top 10 skate at Worlds, regardless of her last year's placement.

 

[Cleo1782]

Even more than that, IMO she's now using the "boot problem" as an advance excuse in case she goofs up the next big competition--which in her case, is Worlds next month. After the last round of boot issues where she supposedly tried all sorts of brands and models, this should have been resolved. I just can't buy into the 2018 updated version of this story. She might have a foot problem, she might have a confidence problem as you say, but I strongly doubt it's the boots. I also don't think sticking with Gambill is helping her out either to fix her technical issues or to develop a consistently killer competitive mindset.

I guess deep down, I'm hoping USFS will pull Chen out of Worlds and substitute Wagner (if Ashley is willing). I would be shocked if the current Chen could pull a top 10 skate at Worlds, regardless of her last year's placement.

Unfortunately, I think Karen has severe technical issues that may effect her equipment. Her jumping reminds me a bit of Lu Chen where they get up and rotate on the way down and Karen has grown/matured since last year. It's clearly effecting her jumps.
I think Bell is a fine option if Ashley declines if someone withdraws. I would bet Mirai may pull out before Karen. I don't think she would be worse than a tired Nagusu and a slumping Chen. And when she is on she is very good and she was decent at Nationals and 4cc's.

 

[RockTheTassel]

Neither should we be piling on Mirai to the extent that some people in here are doing. But what else is new in U.S. ladies thread on FSU. Back to normal cuz it's always free reign to tear down on Mirai big time.

We're hardly being harsh by asking that a skater representing the US on a major international stage acts with some decorum. Many of us are fans who are happy for her successes! But it's also fair to reasonably criticize her recent comments. Plus, for every person who's critical of her, there's someone else who will defend her to death. She may have detractors, but she's always had a good number of people in her corner.

 

[Coco]

I'm sure Kristi's trying to help, but I wonder if this very public mentorship, plus the favoritism by USFSA, puts additional pressure on Karen.

 

[mtnskater]

Karen to Orser STAT before his stable fills up...and take Vincent with her. Get away from Gambill.

Karen’s interview on Olympic Ice was enlightening today. She is articulate and was contrite about her disappointment in her performances here. She discussed the boot issue in depth and said even with her new brand she let issues with her boot get to her head more than she should.

 

[Wyliefan]

I'm sure Kristi's trying to help, but I wonder if this very public mentorship, plus the favoritism by USFSA, puts additional pressure on Karen.

I doubt it. The way she talks about Kristi, to me, suggests that she's comfortable with her. It's probably good to be able to vent to someone who's been on that very public stage and understands the pressure.

 

[RockTheTassel]

The negative articles are from writers that normal do not follow figure skating or know Mirai's "humor." If you read any of the quotes in Mirai's voice you can hear they are protective jokes.

I have followed Mirai for a decade now and know skating more than the average reporter. There's a difference between being humorous and playful (ala her 2010 press conference) and making comments that are self-serving and negative towards others. I'm not saying that Mirai is a bad person or that she intended to come off poorly. But with her level of experience, she should have known better.

 

[RockTheTassel]

I would be surprised if the current Chen could pull a top 10 skate at Worlds, regardless of her last year's placement.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Karen pulled off an amazing skate and ended up in the top five again. That's the problem with Karen. She's one of the biggest wildcards and could end up 12th or 4th depending on the day.

One thing in her favor is that she did poorly at 4CC last year, but went on to peak at Worlds. It could be a similar pattern this year. But who knows.

 

[Cleo1782]

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Karen pulled off an amazing skate and ended up in the top five again. That's the problem with Karen. She's one of the biggest wildcards and could end up 12th or 4th depending on the day.

One thing in her favor is that she did poorly at 4CC last year, but went on to peak at Worlds. It could be a similar pattern this year. But who knows.

Karen was a lot better at Nats last year and even though Gambill and Co. say she was landing the 3-3 in practice, she really hasn't gotten the first jump rotated this year. If Zag, Med, Osmond, Miyahara, Higuchi, Daleman, Kostner, Choi, even Tennell skate well Karen really can't compete. I would say her best placement if there are a lot of bombs would be 5th, so it's conceivable the US could pull 3 spots, but not likely. I also think her worlds placement last year was a bit of a fluke. She wasn't amazing, but there was a lot of shifting in the standings in the lp.

 

[Frida80]

I have followed Mirai for a decade now and know skating more than the average reporter. There's a difference between being humorous and playful (ala her 2010 press conference) and making comments that are self-serving and negative towards others. I'm not saying that Mirai is a bad person or that she intended to come off poorly. But with her level of experience, she should have known better.

That's just the thing. She really doesn't have much recent interview experience. She had a bit when she was younger but from 2012 to this year she was considered a non factor and wasn't interviewed that much. She's had some group media training but not as much as someone like Ashley or Gracie would. And even the two of them would be limited. Skaters just aren't in the media enough. Unless Mirai has been working one on one with a PR rep for several months, she ill equipt for this. Had she been, she would've gone to a private place and gotten herself together first.

She's not shy on camera, so it seems like she has experience. But she's still very green.

 

[Ohyes]

starr andrews is amazing and I look forward to seeing her thrive.

 

[FSfan107]

I've already popped off some about this elsewhere, but in what world do people expect Wagner would have done better than the 3 women here? She has struggled all season with her jumps and is prone to URs. She has weaker spins than all 3 women on the team. She had a chance to do more competitions in the fall and chose not to. She showed in no way that she deserved to be on the team. Karen was a mess in the long, but I rather watch her basic skating than Ashley's, it's much stronger as is her musical interpretation IMO.

 

[DimaToe]

Everyone keeps saying we should see Wagner at worlds. But I’d actually like to see Mariah Bell compete in Milan if the opportunity presents itself. She skated well at nationals and compared to the other 4 ladies, she hasn’t been distracted by the media/Olympic hype

 

[Vagabond]

I guess deep down, I'm hoping USFS will pull Chen out of Worlds and substitute Wagner (if Ashley is willing). I would be surprised if the current Chen could pull a top 10 skate at Worlds, regardless of her last year's placement.

That would be a good way of destroying skater morale. And I'm not talking about one specific skater but of every top U.S. skater now or in the near future.

Karen Chen finished right behind Bradie Tennell and Mirai Nagasu at Nationals and right behind Tennell and Nagasu at the Olympics. She finished ahead of Ashley Wagner at last year's Nationals, last year's Worlds, and the Olympics. It is no great stretch of the imagination that had Wagner competed at the Olympics instead of Tennell or Nagasu, she would have finished behind Karen Chen yet again. I would expect the same thing to happen if, for some reason, Tennell or Nagasu doesn't compete at this season's Worlds and Wagner does.

 

[RockTheTassel]

That's just the thing. She really doesn't have much recent interview experience. She had a bit when she was younger but from 2012 to this year she was considered a non factor and wasn't interviewed that much. She's had some group media training but not as much as someone like Ashley or Gracie would. And even the two of them would be limited. Skaters just aren't in the media enough. Unless Mirai has been working one on one with a PR rep for several months, she ill equipt for this. Had she been, she would've gone to a private place and gotten herself together first.

She's not shy on camera, so it seems like she has experience. But she's still very green.

That's the defense I don't understand, to be honest. Mirai may not have the level of media experience that Ashley or Gracie do, but she has more than Karen and definitely more than Bradie. They aren't acting that way, so why is Mirai? She's someone who's been on the scene for a decade and already has an Olympics under her belt. Even before this Olympics she did interviews and promotional work. Lack of experience isn't the issue here.

 

[RockTheTassel]

Karen was a lot better at Nats last year and even though Gambill and Co. say she was landing the 3-3 in practice, she really hasn't gotten the first jump rotated this year. If Zag, Med, Osmond, Miyahara, Higuchi, Daleman, Kostner, Choi, even Tennell skate well Karen really can't compete. I would say her best placement if there are a lot of bombs would be 5th, so it's conceivable the US could pull 3 spots, but not likely. I also think her worlds placement last year was a bit of a fluke. She wasn't amazing, but there was a lot of shifting in the standings in the lp.

That's all speculative as well though, isn't it? Half the people you named have their own potential to bomb. Last year Karen was having boot issues, didn't skate well on the GP, concerned everyone that she couldn't help secure three spots, ect. And then she was fourth. I'm not counting on it this time around, but the point is that she's unpredictable.

And at this point, are many truly concerned about three spots? With the way things are going, the US women don't seem very deserving unless they seriously step it up at Worlds.

 

[aftershocks]

We're hardly being harsh by asking that a skater representing the US on a major international stage acts with some decorum. Many of us are fans who are happy for her successes! But it's also fair to reasonably criticize her recent comments. Plus, for every person who's critical of her, there's someone else who will defend her to death. She may have detractors, but she's always had a good number of people in her corner.

Hmmm. I obviously have pointed out in numerous posts where Mirai erred. But I'm also calling out some of the criticisms. Some people in this thread I think have gone a little overboard acting as if they felt Mirai had some malicious intent toward Gabby. Clearly she did not. She was obviously disappointed in herself, emotionally exhausted, trying to come to grips with her Olympics experience and trying to put it in a positive perspective in her mind, while being needled and pounced on by clueless reporters who know very little about figure skating, but a lot about overhyping and then over-criticizing athletes. Hopefully, Mirai will apologize to Gabby privately or whatever. I doubt Gabby is taking as much offense as the reporters who were lighting up Mirai in the first place to get comments they could rake over the coals, because she didn't live up to their 3-axel hype.

I think your comments are rather excuse-driven: "It's okay to pile on Mirai, because she has a lot of defenders who are in her corner."

 

[RockTheTassel]

I think your comments are rather excuse-driven: "It's okay to pile on Mirai, because she has a lot of defenders who are in her corner."

That was in response to your idea that "it's always free reign to tear down Mirai big time" when it's clear that some are a bit overly protective at times. I don't see where anyone here is being a big bad bully and tearing her down big time. Most of us realize that she didn't have ill-intent - that doesn't mean her remarks were okay.

But I've said enough about this now. Life goes on, and I'm sure Mirai is celebrating her Olympics and not hurting over a few posts at FSU.

 

[worldsnice12]

For me it was a close call between Ashley and Karen at national where I personally would have had Ashley above and granted a ticket to the Olympics. Just like in 2014, where I was hoping Mirai would have gotten a ticket to Worlds after not making the Olympic Team, I was hoping Ashley would have gotten a Worlds ticket this year (was it not Japan going for this option this year by sending Mai to Milan?)
All this does not mean that any of these skater would do any better than anybody else but at least, gives more skaters a chance to compete at a bigger stage every Olympic year.
In the end of the day, a lot of tensions, mixed feelings and disapointments are coming with the Olympics and some handle them better than others.
I believe a few weeks onwards and we will see the US ladies doing very well for themselves in Milan. I fully expect Bradie to deliver clean or close to clean programs (she had such fantastic practices in Korea)
and I am sure the Olympic experience was a constructive both for her and Karen.
I am less sure if Mirai will actually go as she seemed mentally exhausted but perhaps a few weeks at home will do her good and she will be able to regroup ahead of Worlds.
I would love to see that SP skated clean for once

 

[aftershocks]

That was in response to your idea that "it's always free reign to tear down Mirai big time" when it's clear that some are a bit overly protective at times. I don't see where anyone here is being a big bad bully and tearing her down big time. Most of us realize that she didn't have ill-intent - that doesn't mean her remarks were okay.

But I've said enough about this now. Life goes on, and I'm sure Mirai is celebrating her Olympics and not hurting over a few posts at FSU.

In the U.S. ladies thread and in Mirai's fan thread, there's so often been microscopic examination of Mirai's faults. It's been a huge pastime for many. It's your view that some of her fans are overprotective. Possibly 'overprotectiveness' you perceive could be a reaction to the obsessive criticisms of Mirai over the years. It's been like a sport. In fact, it's actually been a sport to overanalyze and critique all of the U.S. ladies for their shortcomings and inability to continue consistently landing on Worlds and Olympics podiums post 2006.

In any case, you are being overly defensive in trying to walk back your earlier overly harsh remarks. 'Big bad bully' are your words. And no one said it was okay for Mirai to publicly single out Gabby's performance in her response to aggressive needling by reporters. I'm glad you have a crystal ball and can see exactly into Mirai's mind and know exactly what she's thinking and feeling.

My comments calling out the over-criticisms here have nothing to do with how Mirai is feeling. That's not the point, despite your rationalizations. Although the number of critical posts about her on FSU are way more than a few, most likely it's Mirai's family, close friends, dearest fans and dogs who truly rock her world, in a good way.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Paul Wylie was on Olympic Ice yesterday before the Ladies Final (why not Men?), and he said he did well at Os because Evy (mostly) and Mary Scotveld broke down the time between Nationals and Os into 35 prep days, and they planned everything out.

Back in the day, without the constant distraction of social media or press calls, and as the third member of the men's team, Paul could pretty much fly under the radar heading into Albertville.

 

[Willin]

I've already popped off some about this elsewhere, but in what world do people expect Wagner would have done better than the 3 women here? She has struggled all season with her jumps and is prone to URs. She has weaker spins than all 3 women on the team. She had a chance to do more competitions in the fall and chose not to. She showed in no way that she deserved to be on the team. Karen was a mess in the long, but I rather watch her basic skating than Ashley's, it's much stronger as is her musical interpretation IMO.

There were two advantages I see with picking Ashley over Karen:

1. The Adam Factor: She has the personality to make people want to watch her even though she's unlikely to win. She can get people to tune in and bring money and interest towards US Ladies skating that Karen and Bradie may not be able to bring. Of course media attention and marketability shouldn't trump ability to get medals, but as I said I don't think either were realistically in the conversation for medals. Ashley could also pull off an Adam story line: she may not have the technical ability to make the podium, but she can win hearts with her programs despite that.
2. The Fall Factor: Ashley doesn't fall much and doesn't bomb much. Her mistakes are much less photo-worthy - URs, popping a jump, or maybe a 3-turn out. The photos are part of what made the headline. After the SP the front and center article of the sports section in both my local papers were headlined by pictures of the three US ladies falling and calling doom and gloom for the US Ladies. More likely than not, Ashley wouldn't have a photo for that article or leave a bad impression with her program.

On the other hand, Karen was a good choice because:

1. She has a chance to go to Beijing 2022, and this experience could be valuable to helping her prepare for that.
2. She has the potential to be a future star. Between having a children's book and the Kristi Yamaguchi connection, she has a decent storyline for the media to use right now. On her good days, she can really shine on the ice and make an impression on audiences.
3. She is a high risk-high reward choice. If she hit and others missed, she could have an outside shot for the podium. If she missed, like she did here, they can excuse it with "wait until 2022 - she's not quite ready yet."

 

[Former FS FAN]

Karen Chen has taken her skating career to the elite level with some serious obstacles. I don't know how someone who is painfully shy can even get out in front of a large crowd and perform as well as she does. Medvedeva has said she loves being out there and everyone focused on her. Patrick Chan said he sometimes wishes he would have chosen hockey because the focus would not just be on him. Some people can perform very well with a small audience and then go to pieces when it's a big stage. Karen was born with flat feet so getting skate boots to fit her is a challenge. As a runner I know just slipping orthotics in your running shoes can cause fit problems with certain shoes. I am not sure if skate manufactures even offer custom molded bottoms for skaters. Maybe someone on FSU can explain if custom fit skates even exist. Karen is also transitioning from a girl to a woman very quickly. I have seen a lot of top competitors lose their jumps when they get their "curves".

 

[aftershocks]

Karen to Orser STAT before his stable fills up...and take Vincent with her. Get away from Gambill.

Why does everyone always want to send skaters to Orser? Did you see the TSL men's recap with Canadian coach Doug Haw who has formerly coached Orser and assisted Orser in his coaching career at the Cricket Club? Haw indicated that Orser has already received coaching inquiries/ requests. But Orser obviously does not accept everyone. Haw intimated (without mentioning names) that Orser has turned down requests from skaters over the years who he feels are burnt out, or who are just not talented enough. Conversely, Orser is not going to be the answer for everyone, their brother, mother, dog and housekeeper.

 

[mag]

Karen Chen has taken her skating career to the elite level with some serious obstacles. I don't know how someone who is painfully shy can even get out in front of a large crowd and perform as well as she does. Medvedeva has said she loves being out there and everyone focused on her. Patrick Chan said he sometimes wishes he would have chosen hockey because the focus would not just be on him. Some people can perform very well with a small audience and then go to pieces when it's a big stage. Karen was born with flat feet so getting skate boots to fit her is a challenge. As a runner I know just slipping orthotics in your running shoes can cause fit problems with certain shoes. I am not sure if skate manufactures even offer custom molded bottoms for skaters. Maybe someone on FSU can explain if custom fit skates even exist. Karen is also transitioning from a girl to a woman very quickly. I have seen a lot of top competitors lose their jumps when they get their "curves".

Flat feet can be a big issue with skates, however, by Karen’s age it really should have been dealt with. There are companies that make orthotics specifically designed to work in skates and Reidel has their own brand of insoles with interchangeable arch and metatarsal supports. The most important thing with foot problems is high level, ongoing, consistent, physiotherapy to strengthen the feet. The early this starts, the better.

The whole Skate issue is really tricky. More than once we have been blindsided by boots that simply do not work eventhough they should be exactly the same as the past 4 pairs we purchased. It is frustrating to see training time lost, confidence undermined, and competitive results suffer all because a boot that has worked for the past two years no longer seems to work (I am talking about wearing four or five pairs over two years with no problems and then suddenly the next pair are a disaster, not wearing the same pair for two years.) We have found boot manufacturers to be completely disinterested in helping or even in listening to feedback. Perhaps given Karen’s high profile she has more luck in that regard.

 

[Former FS FAN]

Men's Gold and Bronze and train together.
Ladies Gold and Silver and train together.
Dance Gold and Silver and train together.
Seems like it's good to have a great coach and a competitive training environment.

Thanks for the correction aftershocks.

 

[mag]

I used to wonder how much better Jeannie Rochette might have been if she had trained with other elite level women. More recently I would credit Larkyn Austman’s return to Colorado in December with giving her the boost she needed to grab the bronze medal at Canadian Nationals and along with it a trip to the Olympics. I think there is something to be said for training that is also a daily mini competition.

 

[aftershocks]

Karen... well if you have read my other posts... I can't even get started.... I just dont understand why usfsa gifted her with ridiculous score at Nats.. because THAT ISNT THE REAL world..... And say what? she wanted us to go into Prayers in the 11th hour????? Girl, for real?????

Ah, I feel sorry for Karen. @Former FS FAN's above post explains some things about her personality and her boot struggles. I do sadly have a similar reaction as yours to Karen's 11th hour pleas. But now I realize that doesn't mean she wasn't experiencing boot issues as a result of her foot condition making it difficult to fit and break-in boots, and as a result of the constant pounding of jumps breaking down her boots. Still I understand your feelings, as I too have experienced impatience with Karen struggling so much this season with indecisiveness over her program selections, etc. So much of her energy and time was ultimately wasted on ditching a number of programs and going back to both of her last season's programs. I had been rooting for Karen at the start of the season, and looking forward to her challenging for medals on the GP. She started out with a bang and then hit the skids very early on.

Now I have a better understanding that it must be Karen's shyness which leads to her halting way of speaking. She is very gifted, but also very unpredictable. I don't agree with those who feel Karen shouldn't go to Worlds. At this point, the decision has been made and won't change. The best hope is that she will take some lessons from her Olympics experience, get attention for her boots and skate better at Worlds. Lots of athletes experience problems and distractions at the Olympics, and I sympathize with Karen to a degree. However, I would have preferred seeing Ashley being given the nod over Karen to make the Olympic team. I don't see Karen having given any indication that she was ready for the Olympics, so it was a wash between sending her over a slumping Ashley. I think Ashley had successfully revamped her original La La Land fp, and with her experience, she could have done well at the Olympics. Again, there's no way of knowing for sure how Ashley would have fared. We know that Karen did not step up to fully embrace the Olympic spotlight. OTOH, Karen was very supportive toward Nathan after his troubles, which was nice to see.

Far from being the Quiet Assassin, so far Karen has been reverting to her actual alias (from Wu-tang name generator site, discussed awhile back in FS Aliases thread). Quiet Assassin is actually Maia Shibutani's alias, which Karen adopted, understandably, but only Maia herself lived up to.

Given how Ashley was skating this season, I don't feel confident in her ability to place well in Pyeongchang.

It's really hard to know how well or poorly she would have performed simply on the basis of her results early in the season. The La La Land program looked good at U.S. Nationals, and I would have loved to see how it might have improved to be an exciting vehicle for Ashley for at least two more competitions. Sadly, it was not to be.

... watching all the nationals this year, I was struck by how same-y all the US senior ladies were. Same princessy programs, same slow music, same pretty dresses. No one stood out (except maybe Wagner and Starr Andrews and she has her technical limitations at the moment). I think this is true across the ladies, but I think it’s particularly pronounced with the US ladies. No one had a distinct personality on the ice. It was all very 1950s ice princess.

I hadn't given that much thought or examination while watching U.S. nationals ladies comp. I don't think that's strictly the case for the U.S. more than for any other country. There's very few ladies' programs that think outside the box. For example, Hanul and Choi of South Korea have a similar 'princessy' aesthetic mold. Many of the Japanese ladies have lyrical programs, although I think Sakamoto, Mihara, and Higuchi will be very interesting to watch over the coming seasons. I hope they each have the opportunity to fully develop and to explore less common themes and movement styles. Also, if Marin Honda will be returning with a vengeance, that would be an interesting development to follow as well.

but not enough [U.S. ladies] skaters who have the whole package + consistency. It's not just a problem of rotating jumps.

I think many U.S. ladies are 'well-packaged,' but many are not necessarily strong competitors and/or some need help repairing technique problems. Still, there's a good depth of talent and potential, all things considered.

Men's Gold and Silver and train together.

Shoma (silver medalist) and Hanyu (gold medalist) do not train together AFAIK. Javi, who trains with Hanyu, was in silver medal position after the sp, but he dropped to bronze medal position after fp largely because he lost points on a popped jump intended to be his third quad.