U.S. Ladies [#20]: In a Week, Maybe Two, They'll Make You a Star

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^^ :lol: Great that Bradie and her coach know when and how to fend off USFS meddling. :p

2018 US Nationals - Chen wins
2017 GPF - none applies
2017 Worlds - Chen wins.

Ashley won the fp at 2018 Nationals over Karen; and coming in second at 2017 Nationals is not a loss for Ashley, particularly when it could have gone either way. Ashley has performed better overall on the GP this season and last vs Karen. Plus Karen was 12th at 4CCs last season, and although Karen placed 4th at Worlds thus helping to save 3 spots, she also had the chance to podium at Worlds had she skated clean in the fp (she didn't).
 
Guys...they aren't even going to consider the body of work. The judges have all of a sudden brought down Ashley's component scores and raised Karen's, especially relative to Ashley.

Ashley beat Karen (barely) on overall TES between the SP and FS, and she beat her in the FS. Judges flat out decided they want Karen.
 
^^ Yes, writing on the wall. And that's why Ashley is furious, and she has a right to be and to voice how she feels. Still, she needed to skate clean to make a better case for herself. It was another mountain to climb for Ashley and she did well considering. It's obvious that Karen is being backed. That's why I hoped Angela would make things harder for the judges in the fp. It speaks volumes that they placed Ashley behind Angela, but placed Karen in front of Angela in the sp. This is also why Ashley is furious.
 
I thought at the time of her withdrawal from Skate America, that she would p!ss off a number of people at USFSA--mostly because she could have notified them a week ahead that she needed to deal with the infected foot and allow them a chance to pick someone else (and there were US ladies on the wait list who could have gone on short notice). But prior to that I thought Ashley made the following mistakes:
Strategic Mistake #1. Not getting a new short program.
Strategic Mistake #2: Not asking for a Challenger assignment, which would have given her another vehicle to get mileage on the new programs in addition to the GP series. Particularly important in the Olympic selection season.
Tactical Mistake #3: Not sticking with her new LaLa Land FS program but getting sidetracked going back to Moulin Rouge, essentially wasting time and spinning her wheels. I'm convinced that 2 GP + 1 Challenger outing would have given the new programs the badly-needed prior exposure leading up to Nationals, and opportunity to improve.
Tactical Mistake #4: Watering down all the most interesting choreography from the 2016 Hip Hip SP, and not replacing it with anything...much less anything worthy. This made it seem not only stale, but empty...and no amount of nice new dresses could get around that.
Possible Factor #5: I'm not sure that her appearance in the ESPN Body Issue endeared her to the USFSA--there are enough conservative elements in the organization (including judges) that might have taken offense.

She left the door open for the judges by biffing a key jump element in the SP and one in the FS. But I think there was a lot of shenanigans going on with the PCS on the top 4 ladies, and Ashley was held down in both SP and FS scoring of some of the components particularly performance and interpretation.

I feel for her. And IMO, they are crazy not to at least send Ashley to Worlds where more is on the line in terms of GP and 2019 Worlds spots for US ladies.

I agree with you in regards to some of the mistakes Ashley and her team made. But do you think Ashley would put everything she has into competing at Worlds if she is rightfully left off the Olympic Team? I think the Olympic and World Teams should be the same (Tennell, Nagasu, and Chen).
 
^



Ashley won the fp at 2018 Nationals over Karen; and coming in second at 2017 Nationals is not a loss for Ashley, particularly when it could have gone either way. Ashley has performed better overall on the GP this season and last vs Karen. Plus Karen was 12th at 4CCs last season, and although Karen placed 4th at Worlds thus helping to save 3 spots, she also had the chance to podium at Worlds had she skated clean in the fp (she didn't).

Competitions results take into account the sum of the 2 programs. Chen won overall (deservedly or not is a matter of another debate but the result is what it is). Picking selectively the LP over the SP or viceversa is pointless.

As for the rest you say, is all true but again selectively chosing what favors Ashely but none of that is part of the criteria.

For the sake of argumetn let's go with the actual 2nd tier in the criteria:

2017 GP - Wagner wins
2017 4CC - Chen (by default since Ashley didnt do 4CC)

so its Chen 2.5 vs Wagner 1.
 
Competitions results take into account the sum of the 2 programs. Chen won overall (deservedly or not is a matter of another debate but the result is what it is). Picking selectively the LP over the SP or viceversa is pointless.

As for the rest you say, is all true but again selectively chosing what favors Ashely but none of that is part of the criteria.

^^ Thank you judge # ? Or are you Karen's psychologist?


^^ Geesh, I'm tired of hearing about how Karen is recovering from this or that and pumping herself up to compete. I'll go with Bradie and Starr any day of the week. Go out there and fight and skate like you know you deserve gold. Shut up about everything you've had to overcome.
 
Didn't Ashley say she didn't train until late summer or something like that? Now she's been busy doing promotion instead of training. And after winning the silver Raf had to tell her to come back to train or else. Quitting SA & repeating both programs probably didn't help her case either. I remember when Mirai was the it girl she sort of stopped training and went to the beach all summer and was told to have bad work etchic by her coaches etc and that's why the federation got bored with her. Maybe the same with Ashley this time. (Before she was definitely known for her super work ethic! )

Anyway, she doesn't "need" another Olympics, she's had a great career and made plenty of money and is popular already. And doing that while working in a jeans store in the beginning without big family money. Also good for Mirai to come back.
 
Karen's PCS should be higher than Ashley's, end of story.

^^ You guys keep wanting to end the story before the climax. :lol: It ain't over till it's over eh! The fat lady ain't sang yet, but she might as well have. Looking back it actually seems as if USFS was closing the book on Ashley at last year's Nationals, when she skated well enough to get the win over Karen. It could have gone either way even then. With Gracie in trouble, USFS' roving eye was still not looking in Ashley's direction. They was more than happy to see Karen shaking those 'boot problems' and blossoming in On Golden Pond -- they snapped her back up real fast. Those loon calls were irresistible and two Chens are better than one. :D
 
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When you are going into an Olympic season, you want to send the team that is performing well at this time closest to the Olympic event. Right now, other people are outperforming Ashley. I've loved watching Ashley for such a long time. She has really worked hard to get to where she is and has done a fine job representing the US and she has had a great career.

Again, I'm an Ashley fan, but many people in this forum are discounting other skaters' recent success to justify pushing up Ashley a place at Nationals or to guarantee a spot for her on the team.

Do you think Ashley's sudden dumping was because of what happened at Skate America and her supposed attitude (she's always had one anyway) heading into nationals? I mean normally you're suppose to get higher PCS marks at nationals then you internationally not lower :confused:
 
Triple (or double) Lutz is the required solo jump out of steps in the Junior SP this season, so demonstrating a consistent 3Lz in the SP is important for Junior Worlds selection.

The Junior World selection document gives a list of competitions that are taken into consideration, both results and "performance data" to "determine who will have the most impact " (which I suppose could include demonstrating a 3Lz, but that's not specifically mentioned). The top priority event is 2018 Nationals and the next priority that would be relevant to any of the skaters under consideration is this year's JGP.

Starr vastly outscored the other contenders for JW at Nationals (and also scored and placed higher than Hong and Cui in their respective JGP events, where she did rotate and land a 3Lz on one foot in both programs, but with a wrong edge call in both), but also would seem to be in line for 4CC since skaters assigned to the Olympics won't be assigned there (which is actually specified in the 4CC selection document), so it will be interesting to see which one she gets.
 
... but many people in this forum are discounting other skaters' recent success to justify pushing up Ashley a place at Nationals or to guarantee a spot for her on the team.

Regardless of who is or who is not an Ashley fan or supporter, I think many people here are just speaking facts, sharing their opinions and making observations, which does not necessarily mean justifying or advocating for "guaranteeing Ashley a spot on the team." There's always so much drama and politics going on behind-the-scenes, maybe USFS selection committees and judging panels are the ones who need a psychologist to examine their motivations. :p

I realize that none of us here have a say in any kind of decision-making, unless there are judges and USFS members who come here advocating for or justifying their actions and points-of-view. :lol:
 
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No, Emmy Ma is not related to Jimmy.

Which 2 ladies should be sent to Junior Worlds?

ETA - eligible to be selected:

*Starr Andrews [S6], *Tessa Hong [S10], Brynne McIsaac [S14], Kaitlyn Nguyen [S15], *Emmy Ma [S16], Megan Wessenberg [S17], Ashley Lin [S-wd]
Ting Cui [J3], Hanna Harrell [J4], Angelina Huang [J7]

* = also eligible to be selected for 4CC
I think it should be Starr and Ting. But knowing USFS, they’ll choose Amber and send her to a comp to get her minimums. Rinse wash and repeat.
 
Triple (or double) Lutz is the required solo jump out of steps in the Junior SP this season, so demonstrating a consistent 3Lz in the SP is important for Junior Worlds selection.

She had to take out her Lutz due to injury. She has enough time to get it back by March.
 
I think it should be Starr and Ting. But knowing USFS, they’ll choose Amber and send her to a comp to get her minimums. Rinse wash and repeat.

Amber (Glenn) isn't eligible for JW, as indicated by the list you quoted.
 
It didn’t really have anything to do with them being Asian. I have the same thought about anyone who happens to have the same last name as anyone else. I also thought Emmy and Jimmy were similar sounding first names too and I could imagine parents of a boy and girl naming them like that. I apologize if I caused any offense. I am guilty of being too lazy to look it up myself, so I apologize for that too.
Don't apologise! Figure skating is often a family affair. The Dodds' and Kerry's come to mind among others. Assuming there are ties, is usually the better guess. :)
 
Amber (Glenn) isn't eligible for JW, as indicated by the list you quoted.

I Said they would send her to a competition before JW to get her the technical minimums. Maybe not the Bavarian Open this year, because it’s in three weeks. But there should be another international competition in a month that can get a skater the mins.

Unless the have a moritorium or FS comps during the Olympics, then they’d have to go with Ting.
 
Well it takes two skaters to earn the magic 13 points for three spots, not one, so technically Ashley earned the US the three spots as much as Karen did regardless of where they finished in the end

oh, come on, even Ashley said that it was Karen who got the 3rd spot. If it was not for Karen, we would not having this conversation and only Bradie and Mirai would get the spots.
 
Yaaaaay! Junior Worlds team is Starr and Ting! I’ve never been so happy to be wrong! Good for Ting!
I'm a tad worry that Ting won't make the LP given what some of her SPs have looked like this season. But I soooo prefer her to Tessa right now, so I'm happy.
 
Oh dear.

Ashley got railroaded. It's almost like USFSA is punishing her for THEIR decision to place her on the team four years ago.

This whole thing just feels bizarre to me.

So happy for Karen and especially my girl Mirai!! All the blood, sweat, tears, and perseverance was worth it. She is such an inspiration and I am so proud of her! I hope she kicks ass in Korea!!
 
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