U.S. Ladies [#20]: In a Week, Maybe Two, They'll Make You a Star

[zigzig]

LLL felt a little undercooked to me and I can't help but wonder how it might have gone down if she stuck with MR. Everyone's sick of that program but that genius music cut makes it much easier to sell. The popped salchow killed her because with even a double salchow and that two footed lutz she would have given more of an illusion of a clean skate which would probably have boosted her Performance PCS a bit.

I think 3rd/4th could have gone either way without controversy but the international judges have cooled on Ashley and the US judges are just taking their cues from them.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Read my previous post. It's a wash between Karen and Ashley. Karen tanked at 4CCs, and then partly found her mojo at Worlds, but she still made mistakes in the fp. Ashley didn't skate well at 2017 Worlds, but she's been a bit harshly judged internationally not being seen as the #1 U.S. lady. Of course Karen has a bit better arsenal technically, but with Karen you never know how she's going to skate. Too many under-rotations. Karen's not always consistent on her triple combos either.

What a huge generalization to say that Ashley "hasn't done anything..." She's done a lot more than any fans sitting on their backsides judging her.

The issue is that with the rise to contention of Bradie, and Mirai's firepower, USFS has decided they no longer need Ashley for insurance. So they'll take Karen's policy instead.

This applies to 99% of real judges judging her. So...does this apply to them?

 

[Sylvia]

The Olympic ladies team is supposed to be announced in 7 hours -- Saturday at 8 a.m. ET on the TODAY show.

 

[Clutz]

Adam Rippon is as out as can be, and the USFSA obviously loves him.

Do they? Had Jason Brown not made an obvious error (well an error that was seen but seen for what it really was), Rippon would have been third. Brown still got higher PC marks...in more ways than one. You watch tomorrow. If they can get Adam off the team, they will!

 

[SamuraiK]

What a huge generalization to say that Ashley "hasn't done anything..."

Dont take my phrase out of context. I said She hasn't done anything to get the benefit of being held up again. Of course she's done plenty but none of it guarantees her another olympic trip over someone who placed higher at nationals.

 

[pinky166]

Congrats to Bradie on becoming US Champ! But let’s be honest, the ladies event was all about Mirai and Starr and I’m happy about it

 

[aftershocks]

I think 3rd/4th could have gone either way without controversy but the international judges have cooled on Ashley and the US judges are just taking their cues from them.

Again, I think it goes both ways. USFS could have rewarded Ashley last season because it was very close, but they chose not to, which did not give Ashley any boost going into Worlds (international judges sometimes don't see 2nd and 3rd place Nationals skaters coming into Worlds as leading contenders). And part of it too has been Ashley under-performing at times. She had a bit of a letdown after medaling at Worlds, which she has spoken about. Ashley is always transparent and honest.

Everyone is speaking with their emotions right about now. And some people simply don't like Ashley. I'm being honest too about how I see it. But I've seen the writing on the wall all along. Probably Ashley has too, which has made her struggle all the more difficult. The same for Mirai, who has gone out there always feeling she has something to prove. International judges have often been kinder to Mirai than her own federation. Finally, the fed has come around, just as Mirai has been getting around on that 3-axel.

 

[topaz]

And yet they still made sure she got enough points (made up on the PCS side) to get top three over Ashley! Now what does that say about their feelings on Ashley?

USFSA can't be that stupid to think Karen will score and place respectable in Korea with all those URs, can they We all know the US ladies won't be winning any medals but don't just throw your hands in the air and say oh well

The USFSA - are stupid but not because of Karen Chen. The USFSA are waking up to realize that US ladies are far far far behind the rest of the world and they'll stay that way for while. They didn't develop and evolve the skaters.

Any US lady will be hard pressed to land anywhere near a podium, except for Mirai. Mirai has the potential to score very well on the international scene. Also, I don't think the USFSA has as much clout as they think they have in ladies figure skating. Anyway, Japan deserves their 3 spots back.

Skate America will be interesting next season. I'm sure they will try not have Bradie, Mirai and Karen compete against each other and I"m sure they'll try to limit the top Japanese and Russian ladies too.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

If Emmy Ma married Jimmy Ma, they should name their child Yo MaMa.

I could be their second born, MaMa Black Sheep.

 

[MRani]

If Emmy Ma married Jimmy Ma, they should name their child Yo MaMa.

I could be their second born, MaMa Black Sheep.

So they’re not related? I thought maybe they were siblings.

 

[Sylvia]

No, Emmy Ma is not related to Jimmy.

Which 2 ladies should be sent to Junior Worlds?

ETA - eligible to be selected:

*Starr Andrews [S6], *Tessa Hong [S10], Brynne McIsaac [S14], Kaitlyn Nguyen [S15], *Emmy Ma [S16], Megan Wessenberg [S17], Ashley Lin [S-wd]
Ting Cui [J3], Hanna Harrell [J4], Angelina Huang [J7]

* = also eligible to be selected for 4CC

 

[topaz]

Can someone tell the placements needed at worlds to have one and two spots?

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

So they’re not related? I thought maybe they were siblings.

Ma-be, Ma-be not.

Nathan and Karen aren't related either.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Do they? Had Jason Brown not made an obvious error (well an error that was seen but seen for what it really was), Rippon would have been third. Brown still got higher PC marks...in more ways than one. You watch tomorrow. If they can get Adam off the team, they will!

 

[Clutz]

So they’re not related? I thought maybe they were siblings.

FYI...just because they have the same last name and they are Asian does not automatically mean they are related.

 

[aftershocks]

Dont take my phrase out of context. I said She hasn't done anything to get the benefit of being held up again. Of course she's done plenty but none of it guarantees her another olympic trip over someone who placed higher at nationals.

Eh, you're saying Ashley hasn't done anything worth respecting. The context is obvious. Ashley wasn't 'held up' before anyway (aside from 2013 U.S. Nats when she had been winning gold on GP circuit and was a big time contender internationally). Conversely at 2014 U.S. Nationals, Ashley was held down. She didn't help herself then either of course, but it was a minor mistake in the sp for a veteran skater who had just won bronze at GPF (second year in a row).

Meanwhile, USFS was focused on anointing Gracie for the Olympics, and on promoting newbie Polina, while hating on Mirai and keeping Ashley far enough away in the marks to ensure Gracie's win. Ashley helped them out with her error in the sp. But clearly USFS didn't give Ashley a vote of confidence in the scoring in 2014 nor in 2018, the way they did for Karen this year. Both times, they made Ashley have to climb a mountain.

Karen made very similar mistakes in the sp to what Ashley did, but it was only Karen who was placed ahead of a completely clean Angela Wang, while Ashley was placed behind Angela. Karen should have been behind Angela too in the sp. Furthermore, Ashley won the fp over Karen. So not much separates them. Like I said, 'It's a wash.'

 

[Willin]

The USFSA - are stupid but not because of Karen Chen. The USFSA are waking up to realize that US ladies are far far far behind the rest of the world and they'll stay that way for while. They didn't develop and evolve the skaters.

Any US lady will be hard pressed to land anywhere near a podium, except for Mirai. Mirai has the potential to score very well on the international scene. Also, I don't think the USFSA has as much clout as they think they have in ladies figure skating. Anyway, Japan deserves their 3 spots back.

Skate America will be interesting next season. I'm sure they will try not have Bradie, Mirai and Karen compete against each other and I"m sure they'll try to limit the top Japanese and Russian ladies too.

No way. No way is Mirai a threat for that podium. I love her, but no. The international judges always nail her on URs - which the judges here all but ignored. She also tends to get very low PCS due to the lack of choreography, transitions, and performance in her programs.

It's frustrating - we've seen her do good transitions, but she has none this year. She does good 3As and clean jumps in practice, but not during competition. If she could put it all together, she could challenge for the podium. But as she skated at Nationals? No way.

 

[jlai]

No, Emmy Ma is not related to Jimmy.

Which 2 ladies should be sent to Junior Worlds?

ETA - eligible to be selected:

Starr Andrews [S6], Tessa Hong [S10], Brynne McIsaac [S14], Kaitlyn Nguyen [S15], Emmy Ma [S16], Megan Wessenberg [S17], Ashley Lin [S-wd]
Ting Cui [J3], Hanna Harrell [J4], Angelina Huang [J7]

My vote would be Ting cui and Andrews but Starr hasn't done a lutz at nationals.

Which bugs me. They should ask skaters who want to go to jr world to show they are capable of that jump.

 

[VGThuy]

The Wagner situation reminds me of the two times Abbott was pushed off the world team, in the sense that the PCS wouldn't be replicated in any international competition.

Send her and Chen to 4CC and let an international panel settle the third spot there.

I don't think that's necessary. Ashley and Karen didn't do too hot in the GP series this Fall despite Ashley's medal at Skate Canada, and Karen has already beaten Ashley in front of an international panel at the biggest competition of the season after people wrote her off saying she could never replicate her Nationals success and would surely lose to Ashley.

 

[Sylvia]

Can someone tell the placements needed at worlds to have one and two spots?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Figure_Skating_Championships#Number_of_entries

 

[Sylvia]

My vote would be Ting cui and Andrews but Starr hasn't done a lutz at nationals.

Which bugs me. They should ask skaters who want to go to jr world to show they are capable of that jump.

Maybe Starr Andrews would prefer to be considered for 4CC?

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

My vote would be Ting cui and Andrews but Starr hasn't done a lutz at nationals.

Which bugs me. They should ask skaters who want to go to jr world to show they are capable of that jump.

Fortunately, Carolina Kostner hasn't been asked to do the same thing.

 

[aftershocks]

I can't help but wonder how it might have gone down if she stuck with MR.

What??! Apparently Ashley is damned if she does, and damned if she doesn't. She can't win for trying, no matter what she does.

A lot of the conversation in here isn't making much sense either. Maybe some of us need some shut-eye.

 

[topaz]

@

I don't think that's necessary. Ashley and Karen didn't do too hot in the GP series this Fall despite Ashley's medal at Skate Canada, and Karen has already beaten Ashley in front of an international panel at the biggest competition of the season after people wrote her off saying she could never replicate her Nationals success and would surely lose to Ashley.

Who are these "people" what wrote off Karen and said she could never replicate her Nationals sucesss? I know you're a fan of Karen but not many on this board was saying that.

 

[MRani]

FYI...just because they have the same last name and they are Asian does not automatically mean they are related.

It didn’t really have anything to do with them being Asian. I have the same thought about anyone who happens to have the same last name as anyone else. I also thought Emmy and Jimmy were similar sounding first names too and I could imagine parents of a boy and girl naming them like that. I apologize if I caused any offense. I am guilty of being too lazy to look it up myself, so I apologize for that too.

 

[VGThuy]

@


Who are these "people" what wrote off Karen and said she could never replicate her Nationals sucesss? I know you're a fan of Karen but not many on this board was saying that.

I remember a lot of people were saying that or at least a vocal contingent of people on social media, especially after Karen's showing at 4CC. There were tweets from TSL demanding that USFS replace Karen in favor of Mirai for Worlds.

 

[topaz]

Fortunately, Carolina Kostner hasn't been asked to do the same thing.

I guess you didn't get the memo that Caro's Lutz is BACK.

 

[Sylvia]

Triple (or double) Lutz is the required solo jump out of steps in the Junior SP this season, so demonstrating a consistent 3Lz in the SP is important for Junior Worlds selection.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I guess you didn't get the memo that Caro's Lutz is BACK.

Thank God. #Phew #CaroForBronze #PyeongChangYeahBaby

 

[topaz]

I remember a lot of people were saying that or at least a vocal contingent of people on social media, especially after Karen's showing at 4CC. There were tweets from TSL demanding that USFS replace Karen in favor of Mirai for Worlds.

Dave is bone head and many of the folks who respond to his tweets are boneheads too. I was referring to folks with sense.

Karen has skated decently/well in 3 of her 6 events over the course of one year. She's still a wildcard and inconsistent, just like 985 of US ladies and 80% of the international skaters.