U.S. Ice Dance 2019-20 season news & updates

overedge

G.O.A.T.
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28,269
So, I don't think new or developing teams should be concerned about what the top teams are doing or which top team is coming back, they just need to focus on their own development, have a plan and work hard to get where they want to be.
That's nice in theory, but it's not realistic, especially for teams with limited resources. Which TBH is most of them.

Let's say a team has a plan for, say, the Olympics in three years. And they're already working hard at getting there. Then a retired team like V/M decides to come back to competition. Everybody knows there is no way the judges are going to say, sorry, V/M, get in line and wait your turn. So that essentially eliminates one spot for a Canadian ice dance team at the Olympics and makes the competition more intense for the remaining spot(s).

Teams can focus on their own development all they want, but if they want to be competitive they also have to be aware of what other teams are doing and where those teams are placing. So if a team saw the competition to get to the Olympics suddenly become a lot more crowded, they might think, hmmm, how much chance do we really have to get there this time, or maybe, can we keep going for another four years and try for the next Olympics? Keep in mind that teams at the level to be making this sort of decision have already invested several years of their lives and lots of $$$ (or lots of their parents' $$$) in getting there. An even more expensive commitment may not be possible.

Keep in mind, too, that skaters at this level are usually in their early to mid-20s, and may also be considering whether continuing in skating is more important to them than e.g. finishing a degree, getting a job, finding a place to live. And ice dance is hugely demanding physically as well, so they may be wondering whether their bodies can hold up for that much longer.

So it's not as simple as putting your head down and working hard and letting the rest take care of itself.
 
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Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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61,647
On a related note (cross-posting from the Cirque du Soleil AXEL thread):
“We were debating after Nationals last year what we were going to do,” Manta explained to Ice-Dance.com before their Oct. 12 show in Syracuse, N.Y. “We talked about maybe stopping or doing another season and then we got the call from Cirque while we were in this debating position.
We were like, ‘Wow, this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to be a part of something so cool and special and it is something we have never done before.”
Manta and Johnson’s best finish at the senior U.S. Championships was 7th place (2016 and 2019), which meant they were not eligible to receive the highest level of funding from U.S. Figure Skating. Johnson divulged that the cost to continue training at the elite level was a major component to their decision.
“We were fresh out of money,” Johnson, 25, said.
 

happycamper2554

Well-Known Member
Messages
211
Cant link at the moment but the usfs fanzone came out with an article asking skaters what they are thankful for. Anthony said he was thankful for Christina.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
61,647
Anthony Ponomarenko
"I am thankful for Christina. Her perseverance and hardworking mentality motivates me to push myself to the limit every day and never give up. Her enthusiasm and love for life never ceases to make me smile."
Christina Carreira
"I'm most thankful for my family, my partner and my coaches because they support me no matter what and they always know what to say to make me feel better."
Vadym Kolesnik
"There are not enough words to describe how thankful I am to my parents. They taught me so much and going away to skate in the United States made me realize how much they both mean to me. Sometimes it's easier to focus on what we don't have, rather then what we have. So always cherish your parents who gave you life."
 

RoyThree

Active Member
Messages
84
In the old days of ice dance, I would have been much more concerned about this, but now, not so much. Internationally, teams seem to be cycling in/out of favor quickly. S/K go from nothing to World silver in one season. C/B and W/P come back after time off and are right back in it. Meanwhile H/D go from World silver and bronze to .... who knows what will happen this season. 😧 the Shibs would have as good a chance as anyone, arguably.
I agree, and just based on their social media outlets (which I know are "always" accurate) they don't seem to have moved on in any new career paths. The past two years have seemed more like an extended vacation where they are just enjoying life.
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
22,731
Over the last two seasons, it seems like Chock and Bates are really blossoming in Montreal. They look the best they maybe ever have. I can't say the same thing for Kaitlin and Jean Luc. I feel like they're getting lost in Montreal, and they aren't even getting their levels, which has been a common problem for teams in Montreal. This coaching change has never felt like the right move to me.

After watching the whole GP series, I've decided that Kaitlin and Jean Luc need to discover a sudden hankering for Italian food and go train with Barbara Fusar-Poli. Guignard and Fabbri look great. They also have a less than ideal height difference, but they've had programs that really highlight them. And they're getting their levels. (I may have slightly stolen this opinion from @oleada)
 

RoseRed

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,695
Over the last two seasons, it seems like Chock and Bates are really blossoming in Montreal. They look the best they maybe ever have. I can't say the same thing for Kaitlin and Jean Luc. I feel like they're getting lost in Montreal, and they aren't even getting their levels, which has been a common problem for teams in Montreal. This coaching change has never felt like the right move to me.

After watching the whole GP series, I've decided that Kaitlin and Jean Luc need to discover a sudden hankering for Italian food and go train with Barbara Fusar-Poli. Guignard and Fabbri look great. They also have a less than ideal height difference, but they've had programs that really highlight them. And they're getting their levels. (I may have slightly stolen this opinion from @oleada)
A less drastic move that I've seen a couple people suggest would be Carol Lane and team in Toronto. I'd be kind of interested in seeing that, if they don't want to move to another continent (though I don't know if she'd take them). Beyond Piper and Paul, the top junior team there Bashynska/Beaumont have been doing quite well this season.
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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29,145
Chock and Bates have great programs, but they're not getting their levels either. It worries me, because I want them to do well.
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
Messages
17,335
Over the last two seasons, it seems like Chock and Bates are really blossoming in Montreal. They look the best they maybe ever have. I can't say the same thing for Kaitlin and Jean Luc. I feel like they're getting lost in Montreal, and they aren't even getting their levels, which has been a common problem for teams in Montreal. This coaching change has never felt like the right move to me.

After watching the whole GP series, I've decided that Kaitlin and Jean Luc need to discover a sudden hankering for Italian food and go train with Barbara Fusar-Poli. Guignard and Fabbri look great. They also have a less than ideal height difference, but they've had programs that really highlight them. And they're getting their levels. (I may have slightly stolen this opinion from @oleada)
That's a quite interesting suggestion that's backed up with some sound reasoning. But truthfully, would BFP take them on, and would they make such a transatlantic move?
 

Theatregirl1122

Needs a nap
Messages
22,731
In general, it doesn’t seem like the Montreal teams are getting their levels to start the season over the last two years. Seems like Marie France’s team is gambling that the expanded GOEs will work in their favor and also that they will get the levels by worlds. For a team like P&C, that isn’t terrible, because they are already recognized for being the best and everything they do is quality. But for a team trying to climb up the ranks like H/B, you need to hit the ground running. (I don’t honestly like the strategy for anyone, tbh.)

For Chock and Bates, I feel like they have programs that really suit them for the first time in their career as a team, so it’s easier to forgive the levels issue, not to mention that they do have that advantage as being seen as in the top tier of teams. Also, their most important competition is also in Montreal since the team they need to beat first is H/D.

H/B are still working to be seen as a top team. Most teams climbing the ranks like that have had to max out levels to get recognized, and they are nowhere close right now. Their SD this year is one of the better ones, but their last two FDs have been huge missteps. Nowhere near the quality of Liebenstraum.

I considered Carole Lane as well, to be honest.
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
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7,774
In general, it doesn’t seem like the Montreal teams are getting their levels to start the season over the last two years. Seems like Marie France’s team is gambling that the expanded GOEs will work in their favor and also that they will get the levels by worlds.
But not gambling with Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen? And Wang & Liu had level 3 at COC. And now even Fear & Gibson, who never get the pattern, have a level 4 on the Finnstep from NHK? I would be asking who is teaching these athletes the pattern.
 

Gris

Well-Known Member
Messages
419
I agree that Barbara is a great technical coach but honestly I'm not so sure that she's also good at packaging, and she has been coaching G/F for about 10 years. Their FDs, except this year's Bowie, did not impress me much despite them being excellent skaters.

And even this year, G/F, Barbara and her team made the head scratching decision of changing to a new RD halfway through the season.

I think Carol Lane would be a better choice for H/B at this point, if she wants to take them.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,367
Over the last two seasons, it seems like Chock and Bates are really blossoming in Montreal.
I go over this thought all the time.....

But...

.... they were World medalists and US champs before and without them.....

Now they barely qualify for GPF

How do I reconcile these scenarios? I love them so much
 

Debbie S

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,242
They didn't "barely qualify" for the GPF. They were 2nd in both events, just like S/B. Usually, there are 3 teams with 2 2nd places but G/P had an upset win over H/D at SC. C/B's total score was a little lower than S/B's, but ultimately, order of qualification doesn't matter since RD/SP start orders are now based on world ranking. They have the 2nd highest FD score (behind P/C) of all teams this year.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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61,647
Related to JGPF/GPF ice dancers:


Excerpt from the November cover story of Skating magazine (full issue is not online yet):

 
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Cayuse

Well-Known Member
Messages
207
HB's actual skating is better than in earlier years. They have greatly improved their lift difficulty in Montreal. They need to take responsibility for their levels and drill those. (A visit to Judy Blumeberg?) Their exhibitions are Laugh Out Loud funny!! The Black Swan this year is hilarious! Very few teams (or entertainers of any sort) can master humor. I believe they are attempting to bring that strength into their free program this year, but the choreography doesn't show enough. I'm not a fan of stops in a program, but this program could be an exception. Somehow they need to play up the spoof at the beginning of the program to engage the audience. I think he should dress as a more obvious Beethovan and she in a sleek scaled down Flamenco dress and skip the Marie Antoinette intention. It's the Marie Antoinette part that doesn't come across. One, because the dress color is black. Paintings of Marie Antoinette show her in many colors, but never black. Marie Antoinette wore a lot of lace and bows and the skirt was always draped over panniers, a hoop skirt that stuck out to the sides. This style of costume along with wigs for both, would probably work better for an exhibition than a competition but it would be more obvious who they are portraying.

Anyway, costumes are expensive and it is late in the season. I think they are on the right track by trying to be something different. They just need to find the right interpretation for next year.[/QUOTE]
 
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Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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29,145
Is he even supposed to be Beethoven? I thought he was supposed to be an audacious peasant or something.
 

Gris

Well-Known Member
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419
^ I believe Jean-Luc said that he was supposed to be a Spaniard visiting Marie-Antoinette...

I agree that they pull off humor type programs very well and should bring this into their competitive programs, but this year's FD is not it. Beethoven, Marie-Antoinette and Victorian era. Seems very busy and not cohesive enough when you put all these together in one dance.
 

Wyliefan

Trying to appease the skategods
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29,145
Exactly -- there's too much going on. He's a Spaniard! Dancing with Marie Antoinette! Doing the flamenco! To Beethoven! Because . . . reasons! It just doesn't hold together.
 

Colonel Green

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,087
I go over this thought all the time.....

But...

.... they were World medalists and US champs before and without them.....

Now they barely qualify for GPF

How do I reconcile these scenarios? I love them so much
Their World medal/US champ days were behind them when they came to Montreal. This is about trying to turn things around, which they've been reasonably successful at thus far. Job 1 is to regain the US title, and whether they do that will, I think, depend on if they can get the RD levels.
 
Messages
49
^ I believe Jean-Luc said that he was supposed to be a Spaniard visiting Marie-Antoinette...

I agree that they pull off humor type programs very well and should bring this into their competitive programs, but this year's FD is not it. Beethoven, Marie-Antoinette and Victorian era. Seems very busy and not cohesive enough when you put all these together in one dance.
I agree with you although there are some nice touches the routine does lack cohesion and the music still seems a bit heavy, I do really like their RD.They do still have time to iron out some of the issues with the free dance before nationals and hopefully they will make it to worlds.
 

nimi

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,670
So... Looks like H/D might have kept the music cut but made some significant changes in choreo? (I haven't rewatched their GP performances so I'm not 100% sure but I think the step sequence is in different place?)
 

Debbie S

Well-Known Member
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12,242
So... Looks like H/D might have kept the music cut but made some significant changes in choreo? (I haven't rewatched their GP performances so I'm not 100% sure but I think the step sequence is in different place?)
That clip looks exactly the same to me. From other vids, it looks like they replaced the rotational lift with a straightline lift and possibly moved the curve lift to earlier in the program.
 

aftershocks

Banned Member
Messages
17,335
Nowhere near the quality of Liebenstraum.
It's spelled Liebesträume. :)

Pasquale Camerlengo choreographed Libesträume for H/B, so maybe they should work with him again... :unsure:

I considered Carole Lane as well, to be honest.
I think Carol Lane would be a better choice for H/B at this point, if she wants to take them.
I don't think moving to Carol Lane is going to happen. H/B probably feel that they are in the best place for them. Kaitlin has grown in confidence, so there have been some benefits to their move to Montreal. Also, it's not easy to get accepted at Gadbois training camp, so they aren't going to skip out on a dime. H/B had some missteps with their concept and music ideas this season. For me they perform the SD well, but the concept is extremely overused by this point. There are plenty of other entertaining Broadway musicals they could have explored without doing a disco rehash. I've listed other possibilities in several threads... But sure, it's too late to change now, so they just need to continue working the SD and heavily tweak the FD, as many fans have suggested.

ITA with @Gris and @Wyliefan about the over busyness of H/B's FD concept :eek: It doesn't translate well at all. :blah: Also, ITA with @Gris' very apt comments about specific problems with the FD. It might be helpful for posters to better read your interesting comments @Cayuse if you would go back and enter the missing close quote bracket where you are quoting and responding to Gris. :)

Reminder: H/B came up with the S/D selection, and M-F had suggested the FD concept based on a music idea, plus she also wanted to create something humorous-related for H/B. Sadly, overall the program just doesn't work in their favor on a number of levels.

But not gambling with Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen? And Wang & Liu had level 3 at COC. And now even Fear & Gibson, who never get the pattern, have a level 4 on the Finnstep from NHK? I would be asking who is teaching these athletes the pattern.
Your observation and suggestion make a lot of sense.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
61,647
After the Jr. RD at Golden Spin of Zagreb, Katarina Wolfkostin & Jeffrey Chen lead the field of 19 teams with a score of 66.52 (their ISU SB score is 58.90 at JGP Courchevel).
 

AngieNikodinovLove

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,367
They didn't "barely qualify" for the GPF.
Well, they qualified 6th of 6? No?

Or 5th?

So, yes they did barely. Two silvers aint no guarantee these days anymore.

And yes I know they have the second highest scoring free.... but when you combine that (as I mentioned 2 weeks ago in their cheer thread) with a RD that is only like 7th or 8th best in the world, then big whoop.

No sense in having that stellar free with a RD that needs to be revamped, retooled, reimagined and in need of higher levels on elements.

They are almost always having a lower scoring short dance since being in Montreal. Then they have a higher scoring free but not usually enough to take them to the top.

Having said all this they are my favorite team as I also keep mentioning.

AND going back to my point of my previous post... I was JUST ASKING are they necessarily that much better in Montreal, in that they were US Champs and World medalists withOUT them... now, they dont have such accolades.

Have they improved? Yes. But so has the overall landscape along with them.

Its being excited that you made 100K on the sale of your house and you go to purchase another..... but the when the whole market went up with it, did you really make gains?
 
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VGThuy

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32,703
I think Montreal has improved them to the point where people are still seeing them as spoilers/contenders. They could have easily been passed over and were seen as heading that way with Igor, although I don't know how accurate that is. We don't really know since they left Igor after the 2017-18 season. Prior to that, they lost their world medals at 2017 Worlds but did place 4th in the RD and with the other two American teams, consistently qualified for the GPF. It's hard to tell because they had physical issues during the Olympic season and many of their lower-top ten placements were due to big mistakes committed by them. I think people are just speaking positively about them in Montreal because people finally like their programs and can finally see Evan the way they used to see him when he skated with Emily Samuelson (my opinion anyway). Plus, Montreal is taking advantage of the fact that they are a team that can certainly DANCE to a rhythm and keep it up, so they are giving them programs to show that off compared to their closest American rival.
 

georgiana08

Active Member
Messages
72
Thrilled for C/B and their silver medal 🥈 today! Obviously anything can happen, but I feel quite confident that they'll regain the US title this year. It's been so exciting to see them blossom at Gadbois.

And I guess congrats are also in order for H/D, although I admit I'm surprised they didn't make more changes to their programs in the time since their GPs. The RD dress is a big improvement, but I still hate the music for both programs and don't think they're taking enough advantage of the big crescendo in Shallow.
 

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