U.S. Ice Dance 2019-20 season news & updates

[Colonel Green]

AND going back to my point of my previous post... I was JUST ASKING are they necessarily that much better in Montreal, in that they were US Champs and World medalists withOUT them... now, they dont have such accolades.

As I noted, those days were behind them by the time they came to Montreal.

Chock/Bates' career peak (thus far) was the yearlong period between the two Barcelona Grand Prix Finals in 2014-2015. The descent started in the second half of the 2015/16 season, when they dropped behind the Shibutanis; they were still World medalists that year, so it was hardly a steep fall, but the decline in the standings continued for the next two seasons.

They didn't drop terribly far, to be sure, but they were not moving in the right direction.

 

[firstflight]

In case any of you missed it, Green/Parsons handily beat McNamara/Carpenter, who struggled with levels in the FD, at Golden Spin. Scoring in the FD was kind of strange in that Guignard/Fabbri’s PCS were kept rather restrained while both Morozov/Bazin and Green/Parsons’ TES and PCS were shot through the roof compared to earlier competitions.

I’m really curious now what happens at Nationals. I would guess this 74/113 set for G/P was a blip. But if it’s at all suggestive of where judges will go as they continue to compete, then they may be the first Wheaton team to eventually make a worlds team.

 

[casken]

In case any of you missed it, Green/Parsons handily beat McNamara/Carpenter, who struggled with levels in the FD, at Golden Spin. Scoring in the FD was kind of strange in that Guignard/Fabbri’s PCS were kept rather restrained .

The USA judge doing their usual G&F under marking (Richard Daily is almost as bad as Sharon Rodgers), this time in conjunction with the German judge.

G&F will always be the odd ones out.

 

[dancefan17]

I think it’s hard to interpret the results of Golden Spin, not knowing how recovered M/C are from their injury. They certainly missed training time. Happy for G/P, but would expect M/C to rebound. In time for Nationals? Hard to say as there really isn’t much training time left.

 

[Dobre]

Karnes & Slevira, Pate & Bye, and Petrov & Schilling have all been added to the International Selection Pool.

 

[Sylvia]

Those 3 teams were all added to the ISP after the Midwestern Dance Challenge in October : https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...eason-news-updates.105725/page-8#post-5665399

ETA:

After the Jr. RD at Golden Spin of Zagreb, Katarina Wolfkostin & Jeffrey Chen lead the field of 19 teams with a score of 66.52 (their ISU SB score is 58.90 at JGP Courchevel).

Forgot to update that Wolfkostin/Chen won the silver at Golden Spin (podium pic is 2nd): https://www.instagram.com/p/B5x3iWTJfao/
They scored 97.29 in FD, 163.81 total (ISU PBs are 93.90 & 148.81 at JGP Chelyabinsk).

 

[Sylvia]

2 articles by Jean-Christophe Berlot:

Madison Chock and Evan Bates’ Free Dance Wins Hearts and Hardware Again in Torino (Dec. 10, 2019):

Madison Chock and Evan Bates’ Free Dance Wins Hearts and Hardware Again in Torino - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

"Performing has become our new motto," Evan Bates had said at the end of their first Grand Prix Series event in Grenoble, France, six weeks ago. "At the point we

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

Avonley Nguyen and Vadym Kolesnik Fueled by Competitive Spirit (Dec. 10, 2019):

Avonley Nguyen and Vadym Kolesnik Fueled by Competitive Spirit - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

"I've just seen Maria (Kazakova) and Georgy (Reviya)'s marks," Vadym Kolesnik offered after he and Avonley Nguyen had left the ice after their rhythm dance

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

 

[aftershocks]

Having viewed the JGPF ice dance performances, I believe that Avonley & Vadym should have edged Maria Kazakova/ Georgy Reviya in the RD. The fact that these teams were practically tied in both segments really boils down to politics favoring the Georgians, likely largely on the basis of their groundbreaking FD.

A&V's RD has improved to such a great degree since I first saw it, and they executed brilliantly. I also think that A&V are more polished skaters at the moment than K/R. The biggest difference is that K/R are taller and seem a bit older, even though Vadym & Maria are both 18, and Avonley is 17. Georgy is the oldest at 20.

A&V performed great in both the RD and the FD. I understand K/R slightly edging to victory with the fresh & innovative choreography of their FD, which they perform with great passion and energy. Still, IMO at this point, K/R are not better ice dancers overall than A&V.

 

[Jammers]

Having viewed the JGPF ice dance performances, I believe that Avonley & Vadym should have edged Maria Kazakova/ Georgy Reviya in the RD. The fact that these teams were practically tied in both segments really boils down to politics favoring the Georgians, likely largely on the basis of their groundbreaking FD.

A&V's RD has improved to such a great degree since I first saw it, and they executed brilliantly. I also think that A&V are more polished skaters at the moment than K/R. The biggest difference is that K/R are taller and seem a bit older, even though Vadym & Maria are both 18, and Avonley is 17. Georgy is the oldest at 20.

A&V performed great in both the RD and the FD. I understand K/R slightly edging to victory with the fresh & innovative choreography of their FD, which they perform with great passion and energy. Still, IMO at this point, K/R are not better ice dancers overall than A&V.

I really hope N/K grow a few more inches smaller teams just don't look as impressive as taller teams and i don't even mean teams as tall as H/D. H/B have always to me been at a disadvantage because he in particular is short. Same with Michael Parsons.

 

[clairecloutier]

I really hope N/K grow a few more inches smaller teams just don't look as impressive as taller teams and i don't even mean teams as tall as H/D. H/B have always to me been at a disadvantage because he in particular is short. Same with Michael Parsons.

There have been plenty of shorter teams in ice dance. It didn't stop Davis/White from becoming Olympic champions, nor Anissina/Peizerat. Avonley is slight at 5'0", but Vadim's height of 5'8 1/2" is not at all atypical for a male ice dancer.

As to Michael Parsons, I'm guessing you haven't seen him live. Seeing him at Skate America, he and Caroline have no problem making their presence felt on the ice. Their skating is fast and big, compared to some other teams of similar height.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Thanks so much @clairecloutier. It really should not make any difference in terms of height. I only pointed out height difference in my direct comparison as a reflection of how K/R may seem older, but when you look at their faces they are clearly very young. Georgy is the oldest in terms of age.

Perhaps some fans do look at height as a determinant of how old an athlete is, but to suggest that being taller and looking older should be one of the judgment factors between these two teams that made a difference in the scoring is problematic. I'm not saying that such matters might not be a subliminal factor in the scoring, but I am saying that it shouldn't be!

Taking nothing away from the wonderful progress and substantial efforts of Maria & Georgy this season, I think it is quite clear that Avonley & Vadym are the better overall ice dancers. To a degree that was reflected in the GOE and PCS scores. However, the fact that the scores were so close by percentage points in both segments indicates the political nature of the scoring that led to Maria & Georgy edging for the win. Obviously, M&G's FD is quite brilliant and it's cool for them that they are the first Georgian team to win JGPF. Still, I don't think M&G should have won the RD over A&V who were significantly better in that segment. Also in the FD, A&V were excellent and debatably should have won had not M&G's FD been seen as so groundbreaking and innovative.

M&G have shown some improvement in their skills and they are an attractive pair on the ice, which always makes a difference in the minds of judges. It's apparent that the judges wished to reward the innovative choreography of the young Georgians' FD.

As Claire has pointed out, being smaller in height does not subtract from speed, ice coverage, and amplitude. In the article on A&V linked earlier, that very subject of A&V's superb amplitude and ice coverage was discussed and emphasized. IMO, the scoring difference boils down majorly to politics. When skaters are close in different aspects, particularly in ice dance, it's not always that we see the better skilled athletes/ artists winning. Obviously what I just observed is an understatement, as we witness this tight scoring phenomenon all the time in senior ice dance events. It's about buzz, packaging, politics, and performance on the day, oftentimes more than it is about differences in skill and ability.

My heart goes out to Avonley & Vadym! ♥ I hope they take a deep breath, reflect on their progress and hard work, and keep on fighting! They are brilliant and tremendous in their abilities, and such a pleasure to watch.

 

[heartyxo]

I think Avonley and Vadym are a lovely team with so much potential, but I hate how Igor is giving them old Chock/Bates-like programs. I think he really needs to get some creativity and let them develop their own individual style, because it would be awful to see their true capabilities unpacked, just like what happened to C/B until they moved. Its almost like he's trying to replace them in his heart

 

[aftershocks]

As to Michael Parsons, I'm guessing you haven't seen him live. Seeing him at Skate America, he and Caroline have no problem making their presence felt on the ice. Their skating is fast and big, compared to some other teams of similar height.

For sure, for sure. I'm very excited about following the progress of Green/Parsons.

 

[aftershocks]

I think Avonley and Vadym are a lovely team with so much potential, but I hate how Igor is giving them old Chock/Bates-like programs. I think he really needs to get some creativity and let them develop their own individual style, because it would be awful to see their true capabilities unpacked, just like what happened to C/B until they moved. Its almost like he's trying to replace them in his heart

Oh, I doubt that this is the case. I think that Avonley/Vadym's programs this season are very competitive and suited to them. The RD has improved at every outing and it is stretching their range as well.

If you think you have some better program/ music selection ideas for A&V, then by all means, why not share your suggestions directly with Igor?

I do have some ideas I'm hoping to pass along to Avonley & Vadym. In the end, it all boils down to finding something that comes together magically and just works on all cylinders, especially in terms of strategic and logistical timing. None of that is easy. But as I say, share your ideas if you have any. A&V have time to continue growing, so pacing themselves and steadily expanding their range and continuing to improve in all aspects of their skating is the most important thing. The right packaging is also very important, but that is an ongoing, long term process. I think Igor is smart enough to help gather together the best creative minds to help his brilliant young team. I'm sure they will welcome input from anyone who has ideas, and then try to craft and put together the best possible product on the ice for A&V. In the end, it also boils down to being passionately motivated by whatever choices they make.

As I said, this season's choices have been great for them on their journey. Full speed ahead!

 

[Sylvia]

I missed seeing this news posted in the Kiss & Cry section earlier... USFS' International Assignments page has yet to be updated but Hawayek/Baker have appeared on the entries list for Mentor Torun Cup in Poland (Jan. 7-12) which takes place before Nationals (Sr. Dance competition in Greensboro is on Jan. 24 & 25).

ETA:

Here's one more GPF article by Jean-Christophe Berlot (published in Fan Zone on 12/17/19):

Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue – Continuing to Build - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue skated their two Grand Prix events back to back at the beginning of the season, at Skate America and Skate Canada International.

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

 

[Sylvia]

Katarina Wolfkostin/Jeffrey Chen are in Lausanne, Switzerland for the Youth Olympic Games -- here's hoping they have an amazing experience! The YOG opening ceremony is tomorrow. The RD is on Saturday, Jan. 11 & the FD on Monday, Jan. 13.

Posted back on Dec. 28:

USFS' International Assignments page has yet to be updated but Hawayek/Baker have appeared on the entries list for Mentor Torun Cup in Poland (Jan. 7-12) which takes place before Nationals (Sr. Dance competition in Greensboro is on Jan. 24 & 25).

Hawayek/Baker are listed on USFS' Assignments page now but they are no longer listed in the entries for this competition as of today, Jan. 8. Elliana Peal and Ethan Peal are listed in the Adv. Novice Dance event that takes place on Jan. 11-12 (they made their international debut last year, placing 6th at Bavarian Open).

Re-posting from the Dance Hall discussion thread:

I was randomly browsing through USFS Fanzone and it looks like that McNamara and Carpenter have switched back to their 2017-18 FD music for the rest of the season.
https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/...bsp-lorraine-mcnamara-and-quinn-carpenter/152

2019-20 SEASON NOTES
...
FD Music: “Anime Contro Vento” by Medialuna Tango Project

 

[heartyxo]

I'm really worried about Hawayek/Baker. I hope they're not injured

 

[Debbie S]

I'm really worried about Hawayek/Baker. I hope they're not injured

I would assume they just wanted to focus on their training for Nats.

 

[heartyxo]

I would assume they just wanted to focus on their training for Nats.

I hope that is the case but there have been rumours of an injury. I hope it's not true.

 

[Dobre]

I'm a little worried too. A poster on GS said they had only recently announced they were performing a couple of dates at a show over Christmas, and then they didn't. I wasn't worrying because it seemed quite plausible they might have decided that Mentor Torun would be enough without trying to do both, but now they are off the list for the competition also. I hope A. they are fine and B. they are just focusing on Nationals. I suppose they might have been told no show if they weren't going to do the competition but they were only just added to the assignment page, and that was after the show dates were already over. Anyway a nice "gearing up for Nationals" post would be good to hear about if any of their followers sees one.

 

[vireo]

After Hawayek/Baker missed the Christmas show, a reliable poster on GS said they were injured. When they were listed for Mentor/Torun, I thought either the poster had been mistaken or the injury was minor.

Something seems to be going on. I wonder if there was a not too severe injury and they thought they might be ready in time, but weren't. It can be difficult to predict how long recovery will take.

 

[Sylvia]

Anyway a nice "gearing up for Nationals" post would be good to hear about if any of their followers sees one.

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[annie720]

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Nice! Kait says she can't wait to be back in Greensboro, so that makes me feel so much better! Thanks, Sylvia!

 

[ccpompom]

They're still getting that pewter

 

[happycamper2554]

They're still getting that pewter

I'm still willing to put money on their withdrawl

 

[kates8]

There is a Gadbois Insta Story of Simulation day. JL is at the boards it appears doing video. I don’t see Kaitlin, but maybe this is just for Canadian teams and he’s helping out?

 

[heartyxo]

I still think they’re gonna get bronze tbh. obviously that’s if they go and haven’t had serious setbacks.

 

[ccpompom]

I think usfs wants to push new teams and they should before it's too late. And honestly this is already h/b's 6th senior season. they just don't have it. The international judges made it clear they don't like them anymore and I hope usfs caught the message. I would rather see a national podium with at least one non-gadbois team, please.

 

[Frau Muller]

Nice! Kait says she can't wait to be back in Greensboro, so that makes me feel so much better! Thanks, Sylvia!

They’re wonderful...but...my hope is that they’ve been working on a new FD to replace Marie Antoinette and The Matador.

 

[Carolla5501]

I think usfs wants to push new teams and they should before it's too late. And honestly this is already h/b's 6th senior season. they just don't have it. The international judges made it clear they don't like them anymore and I hope usfs caught the message. I would rather see a national podium with at least one non-gadbois team, please.

And here’s what’s wrong with ice dance. What you’re saying is the judges shouldn’t bother to judge what the skaters put on the ice they should just decide who they want to win. Teams should medal because we like them and And we want them to hang around, not because they actually put the best skate on the ice.