U.S. Ice Dance 2019-20 season news & updates

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Hmmmm, Chock & Bates are gonna have to get their RD score up..... Gilles & Poirier just got 82+ at Rostelecom and C&B havent touched that score yet.

Yes, their free is a money maker, but their RD score is low.

What can they do to get the RD score up? Honestly, I find a bit boring.

 

[believed]

Hmmmm, Chock & Bates are gonna have to get their RD score up..... Gilles & Poirier just got 82+ at Rostelecom and C&B havent touched that score yet.

Yes, their free is a money maker, but their RD score is low.

What can they do to get the RD score up? Honestly, I find a bit boring.

Hit their levels.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

I am all for the Shibs coming back.

Question(s) for everyone: Do you think Virture/Moir coming back hurt Canadian Ice Dance? Blocked young teams from progressing? Ruined careers(Weaver/Poje)?

I just have a hard time seeing things that way. I think talented teams will rise regardless of who else is competing. The more (teams), the merrier.

Yes, some young team quit because they knew they had no chance at the Oly!!! Élizabeth Paradi and François Xavier Oullet were one of the team.

 

[VGThuy]

I don't really see any room at the inn for the Shibs. Yes, C/B have been around just as long but they're bringing something new to the table with their revived career in Montreal. I think the only way the Shibs would bring more excitement is if they came back with different partners.

. Detractors have been saying that since 2010.

Or we could get more of Coldplay's greatest hits.

And continue to beat some people’s faves while doing it.

 

[VGThuy]

And this is exactly what is wrong with ice dance. How you skate has too little impact on where you place.

What should be able to happen is that one of the younger teams would knock the current "royalty" off the podium. But... it's Ice Dance where you get exceptional "reputation" points.

You know, I was thinking about this last night. The Shibs gave Hawayek/Baker potentially three Worlds to make their marks and they can still do it, but their GP outings so far haven’t set the world on fire. They are not unknown. They are world junior champs and 4CC champs. They are also older than the Shibs were when they came back with “Fix You”. As for other newer senior teams, I feel for them, but what did the Shibs do in their debut Senior season? And they had to face two returning Olympic medalists and a slew of returning Olympians and the reigning world junior champs who beat them the season prior and the world junior champs the season prior who they were right behind. It didn’t have to be them to take advantage, but they did.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

. Detractors have been saying that since 2010.

And continue to beat some people’s faves while doing it.

Their Coldplay was third at Nats in 2018 IIRC, and they got a medal at the Olys because H/D let it slip away. It wasn't good material.

 

[Spun Silver]

Their Coldplay was third at Nats in 2018 IIRC, and they got a medal at the Olys because H/D let it slip away. It wasn't good material.

True, H/D had great programs that season and the Shibs's second Coldplay FD didn't have the same wow factor as their first one. (The same cannot be said about their Oly season RD.) Maia also had a rare slip in the FD at 2018 Nats which cost them. And H/D have let quite a few medals and placements slip away, and they've been having their own struggles with their material this season and last.

H/D were leading the Shibs by a whopping .02 points after the Olympic SD. When the Shibs skated Paradise at their best, as they did at the Olympics, that program was mesmerizing. But I think even their most ardent fans are ready to kiss Coldplay goodbye and see them do something new.

 

[VGThuy]

Their Coldplay was third at Nats in 2018 IIRC, and they got a medal at the Olys because H/D let it slip away. It wasn't good material.

Because Maia nearly fell. That helped a lot. As for the Olympics, they still were in position to win the bronze and solidly placed ahead of other bronze medal contenders and by some way too. I mean you can keep attacking them all you want, but most Olympic viewers hadn’t seen “Fix You” and their Olympic video uploaded some months ago has over a million views on YouTube and it’s still growing. They gained a lot of new fans on social media from it and they have turned that into a solid post-skating career thus far. Above teams with supposedly “good” material. They also won Rostelecom with it beating Bobrova/Soloviev and won the bronze at the GPF with it despite a major error by Alex on the twizzles. No amount of desperate crap talking changes any of that.

 

[layman]

I think the Shibutanis coming back may be just the push Hawayek and Baker need to step up their game and that goes for the other top teams too (none can afford silly mistakes). They are all so evenly matched that any team could win on any given day. That's what makes the sport exciting!

 

[TanithandBenFan]

Because Maia nearly fell. That helped a lot. As for the Olympics, they still were in position to win the bronze and solidly placed ahead of other bronze medal contenders and by some way too. I mean you can keep attacking them all you want, but most Olympic viewers hadn’t seen “Fix You” and their Olympic video uploaded some months ago has over a million views on YouTube and it’s still growing. They gained a lot of new fans on social media from it and they have turned that into a solid post-skating career thus far. Above teams with supposedly “good” material. They also won Rostelecom with it beating Bobrova/Soloviev and won the bronze at the GPF with it despite a major error by Alex on the twizzles. No amount of desperate crap talking changes any of that.

I'm not "attacking" anyone, jeez. Just saying that their FD in 2018 wasn't one of their best. I think they overplayed the Coldplay theme. If H/D had been clean in the FD at the Olympics I think they would have gotten the bronze. And I didn't like their FD that year (nor am I fan of their skating in general), so I'm not biased in their favor. H/D also gave away the bronze at Worlds in 2017. The Shibs did perform when they needed to, but they also got help on a few pivotal occasions.

 

[overedge]

I am all for the Shibs coming back.

Question(s) for everyone: Do you think Virture/Moir coming back hurt Canadian Ice Dance? Blocked young teams from progressing? Ruined careers(Weaver/Poje)?

I just have a hard time seeing things that way. I think talented teams will rise regardless of who else is competing. The more (teams), the merrier.

But there are only so many spots at the top, regardless of how many teams are competing, even if all of those teams are very talented.

I don't think V/M returning hurt Canadian ice dance in terms of the quality of the teams. I do think, though, that it hurt the mid-level and high-level junior teams who were considering going senior, and the mid-level senior teams that were considering how feasible it was for them to move up the ranks. It was pretty well a given that V/M were going to be Canadian medalists or champions when they came back. That pushed every other senior team down at least one spot in the rankings, if that makes sense.

I am pretty sure that several junior and senior teams looked at the changed landscape and looked at their resources , and decided that the chances of them doing better or progressing were less than what it could cost them to keep competing until V/M were out of the picture again. So those teams retired or broke up. That's not a diss on V/M for deciding to come back - that's just the reality of being in a very expensive and intense sport.

 

[Princessroja]

Agreed. It's hard, because I loved V/M and were happy they came back, but not happy because of the effect on the teams coming down the pipeline. I feel the same way with C/B and H/D to some effect, as much as I love H/D. When I look at Green/Parsons, whom I root for 100%, and I think at best they're going to get 7th at nationals... there's a lot of teams who will understandably think it's not worth it to wait that many years in what is essentially a holding pattern. And yet, those young teams are the future and we need them to stick around.

It's never in stone, of course--teams randomly retire and/or get injured all the time, and there's always some movement between teams. But in general, it's that second tier that's going to be the first to go if an old team comes back, even if they are very talented and would do really well with a bit more investment.

 

[Debbie S]

Green/Parsons will likely finish 6th at Nats (behind the current top 3, plus C/P and M/C) based on fall scores, although M/C are a question mark. Hopefully, they'll have a good showing at NHK next week.

 

[Spun Silver]

Eventually those young teams will be the senior teams that some would like to retire. For me as a fan, the development of skaters as they mature is one of the most rewarding aspects of the sport, so I hate the idea of the older skaters retiring early for the sake of the new ones. (Somehow that reminds me of a Kundera story called, "Let the Old Dead Make Room for the New Dead.") The economic dilemma is very difficult though. I still haven't stopped regretting Paradis and Ouellette.

 

[MacMadame]

Sometimes the old dead don't keep up technically though. I think that's the best answer to this "problem." If a young team wants to be on top, they need to outskate the current people on top. As long as the judging is fair, that's completely possible.

 

[Princessroja]

Eventually those young teams will be the senior teams that some would like to retire. For me as a fan, the development of skaters as they mature is one of the most rewarding aspects of the sport, so I hate the idea of the older skaters retiring early for the sake of the new ones. (Somehow that reminds me of a Kundera story called, "Let the Old Dead Make Room for the New Dead.") The economic dilemma is very difficult though. I still haven't stopped regretting Paradis and Ouellette.

Oh, I agree, that's what makes it difficult for me. There's not enough room, and I love the artistry of the older skaters while feeling for the younger ones.

Green/Parsons will likely finish 6th at Nats (behind the current top 3, plus C/P and M/C) based on fall scores, although M/C are a question mark. Hopefully, they'll have a good showing at NHK next week.

Oh gosh you're totally right. Where did I pull a random 7th team out from??

 

[Spun Silver]

Oh gosh you're totally right. Where did I pull a random 7th team out from??

The Shibs' comeback, of course!

 

[layman]

Success does not come overnight in ice dance. It takes years to develop. The most successful ice dance teams are those who put in the years...so for a brand new team like Green and Parsons, 6th place is about right (and nothing to sneeze at). They will get better in the years to come and move up but let's be real, they are not a top team now.

Those in contention for a top spot have been skating together for a decade or more and have really refined their craft.

So, I don't think new or developing teams should be concerned about what the top teams are doing or which top team is coming back, they just need to focus on their own development, have a plan and work hard to get where they want to be.

 

[aml78]

I love the Shibs but not sure a comeback would be there best move. A team like V/M knew they would be challenging for the top if they got in shape. I think it would be very difficult for the Shibs to replicate their 2018 Olympic placements. They seem to have built wonderful lives outside the rink. Is it worth it for them to make the effort if they can’t tie or beat their prior results?

 

[Spun Silver]

I love the Shibs but not sure a comeback would be there best move. A team like V/M knew they would be challenging for the top if they got in shape. I think it would be very difficult for the Shibs to replicate their 2018 Olympic placements. They seem to have built wonderful lives outside the rink. Is it worth it for them to make the effort if they can’t tie or beat their prior results?

Reclaiming the US title would be worth it, IMO. Not that that's a given. But I think they could do more, with the right programs.

 

[Colonel Green]

The main reason I thought that the Shibutanis were unlikely to come back (beyond the fact that teams that leave competition for multiple years almost never do; the lure of not training for competition is quite seductive once you give into it) was that by the second half of the 2017-18 season it felt like the judges really wanted Hubbell/Donohue, not them. Due to H/D's mistakes and the setup of the scoring system, it didn't matter in the end, but it's especially notable now that the scoring system gives the judges a lot more latitude because of the increase in GOE and decreased role of levels.

Now, since then, the old wheel keeps on turning and it seems like H/D aren't so much in favour anymore, as is the way in dance. The Shibutanis could certainly show up and get everybody excited about what they were missing.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Their Coldplay was third at Nats in 2018 IIRC, and they got a medal at the Olys because H/D let it slip away. It wasn't good material.

I think that's a bit of revisionist history. Maia and Alex won the SP at Nationals that year by a healthy margin, if the Shibs had skated clean they would have easily won the FD and been nationals champs again.
And at the Olympics they had a significant edge over H/D because they skated cleanly again and they had a great advantage in the twizzle component (duh) Even Zachery admitted that he felt nervous performing at the Olympics, Maia and Alex didn't.

I get it, you've never favored the Shibs which is okay, but when they absolutely had to skate their best at the Olympics and Worlds under great pressure, Maia and Alex did, both H/D and C/B didn't and succumbed to their nerves. Not exactly a sterling quality for H/D and C/B is it?

 

[Spun Silver]

^ To be fair, Chock was skating injured, wasn't she?

 

[Debbie S]

^ To be fair, Chock was skating injured, wasn't she?

Yes, and aggravated the injury moments before skating the SD, which they did cleanly.

The Shibs did skate clean at most of the big comps (other than 2018 Nats) although they did struggle with levels occasionally, but there is a difference between skating cleanly and good music/program concept/choreo. A team can have one without the other.

 

[yeslek]

Yes, and aggravated the injury moments before skating the SD, which they did cleanly.

The Shibs did skate clean at most of the big comps (other than 2018 Nats) although they did struggle with levels occasionally, but there is a difference between skating cleanly and good music/program concept/choreo. A team can have one without the other.

And chock and Bates won the free, right? So h/d didn’t win either segment.

 

[Debbie S]

And chock and Bates won the free, right? So h/d didn’t win either segment.

Yes, C/B won the FD at Nats and also scored the highest in the FD of the USA teams at the GPF. And C/B also won the FD over the Shibs at 2017 Nats. (I'm hoping this year, C/B win both the FD and the title. )

 

[clairecloutier]

I think of the Shibs as one of the most, if you will, professional teams in the business of ice dance. They are analytical, smart, and have a vision. Whether or not you liked Coldplay, the fact is they didn't really set a foot wrong in terms of their programs from 2015-16 on. They had success with every program. No matter what else happened in Pyeongchang, or what other teams actually did or might have done, the fact is that they're the ones with bronze medals.

If they choose to come back, I have little doubt they will be trained, they will be ready, they will have quality, polished, well-thought-out material. That's just who they are as a team. (That said, if a comeback happens, I WILL be expecting something other than Coldplay. )

 

[KrazyCatLady]

Sometimes the old dead don't keep up technically though. I think that's the best answer to this "problem." If a young team wants to be on top, they need to outskate the current people on top. As long as the judging is fair, that's completely possible.

When has the judging EVER been fair?

 

[haribobo]

SENIOR DANCE VIA SECTIONALS

Pate/Bye 162
Shilling/Petrov 150
Melton/O'Donnell 125

INTL BYES BY ISU SB

Hubbell/Donohue 209
Chock/Bates 208
Hawayek/Baker 194
Carreira/Ponomarenko 191
McNamara/Carpenter 183
Green/Parsons 173

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

SENIOR DANCE VIA SECTIONALS

Pate/Bye 162
Shilling/Petrov 150
Melton/O'Donnell 125

INTL BYES BY ISU SB

Hubbell/Donohue 209
Chock/Bates 208
Hawayek/Baker 194
Carreira/Ponomarenko 191
McNamara/Carpenter 183
Green/Parsons 173

Wait, only 9 teams will compete at Nats?????