ISU statement on Mariah Bell and Eun soo Lim

[WildRose]

What high level international skater would even want to train with Eun-soo Lim now? I’m willing to believe that this is ATS fault, not hers, but who would want to take the chance?
In the long run ATS may have harmed her career if she can’t get top coaching at a reputable club.

 

[Spun Silver]

ATS needs to apologize so Eunsoo's career doesn't suffer for what they did. Or she needs to break with them. I would think most skaters like her just fine but her agency is another story.

 

[aftershocks]

I think the "bulling" issue is a mis-translation/language issue of another situation at the rink that has nothing to do with "bulling".

(yes, i know few people who have "connections" to the Lakewood Ice who gave their opinions)... there is no "bulling" and no "cultural differences". in a nut-shell, Lim is an introvert, and Bell is an extrovert. Lim is nice, quiet, comes to the rink, keeps to herself, and there just to practice. Bell would not hurt a fly, let alone bullies anyone; if someone falls, she runs to help; if a new person comes, she'll be first to say hallo. But! she is giddy, loud, giggly, and all over the place like a dreidel... she piggy-back rides on her boyfriend, takes fotos of doing this/doing that, always a commotion around her. Some feel that "she takes over space with her presence" and "fills the space" and it may destruct one's attention from concentrating..... BUT IT IS NOT BULLYING!.....

Quite interesting eyewitness accounts regarding their very different personalities and cultural backgrounds, which has nothing to do with bullying.

I had to look up the meaning of dreidel, which sounds like a giggly fairy or a fey, but happy creature.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreidel
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/how-to-play-dreidel/

That seems a perfect description of Mariah's cheery, outgoing personality and her pixie-like mien. This is seeming like quieter and more reserved Eun-soo might have been a bit overwhelmed by Mariah's breezy, larger-than-life presence. Possibly Eun-soo may have taken offense at some previous interactions at their rink, where likely nothing untoward or unkind was intended by happy-go-lucky Mariah.

 

[Marco]

My feeling about all this is that:

1. From the video, what Bell did was not intentional and she probably didn't even realize she touched Lim when it happened.

2. ATS made a big deal out of nothing to promote their upcoming show. Anyone who pays the least amount of attention to KPOP knows what is happening.

3. I don't know if Lim was OK with all the actions by her agency and I feel like it is out of her control anyways. Her agent and her mother would probably have made all the decisions for her while they asked her to focus on skating.

4. If Lim and her mother are looking to make money as a famous skater, I am not sure if they are willing to leave ATS. They have the biggest show in Korea, and as much as ATS can lift her up I am sure she knows they can push her down.

5. The Korean Fed ought to be reprimanded for allowing / not controlling a mere agency of its athlete in making a huge mess like this. I will be even more disappointed if the Korean Fed actually had a say in this or sided with ATS. I am surprised the Korean Fed did not issue some statement dismissing this whole incident, as obviously ATS wouldn't.

6. Raf will be smart to ask Lim to fire ATS or else, but given 4 above, it is possible that Raf has no choice but to fire her.

7. If I were a US coach (or any other coach to be honest) I wouldn't take her or any other skater from ATS.

8. I don't think any US skater should skate at ATS' upcoming show, for safety.

9. I wish the US Fed had voiced more public support for Bell.

10. How awkward for Lim going forward. Whenever she is on ice, everyone else will stay away from her.

 

[VGThuy]

My feeling about all this is that:

1. From the video, what Bell did was not intentional and she probably didn't even realize she touched Lim when it happened.

2. ATS made a big deal out of nothing to promote their upcoming show. Anyone who pays the least amount of attention to KPOP knows what is happening.

3. I don't know if Lim was OK with all the actions by her agency and I feel like it is out of her control anyways. Her agent and her mother would probably have made all the decisions for her while they asked her to focus on skating.

4. If Lim and her mother are looking to make money as a famous skater, I am not sure if they are willing to leave ATS. They have the biggest show in Korea, and as much as ATS can lift her up I am sure she knows they can push her down.

5. The Korean Fed ought to be reprimanded for allowing / not controlling a mere agency of its athlete in making a huge mess like this. I will be even more disappointed if the Korean Fed actually had a say in this or sided with ATS. I am surprised the Korean Fed did not issue some statement dismissing this whole incident, as obviously ATS wouldn't.

6. Raf will be smart to ask Lim to fire ATS or else, but given 4 above, it is possible that Raf has no choice but to fire her.

7. If I were a US coach (or any other coach to be honest) I wouldn't take her or any other skater from ATS.

8. I don't think any US skater should skate at ATS' upcoming show, for safety.

9. I wish the US Fed had voiced more public support for Bell.

10. How awkward for Lim going forward. Whenever she is on ice, everyone else will stay away from her.

Agreed with all of this. I with the USFS took a harder public stance in support of Bell. Rushing an apology and making Bell do damage control for something she didn't really do while probably not she probably did not totally get just far this news has spread seems to indicate they didn't have her best interest at heart.

 

[Jaana]

I doubt it was intentional, but it was really careless from Bell to skate so close to cause an injury, because she definitely must have noticed the other skater and did do anything... Bell was at fault here, IMO.

 

[misskarne]

I doubt it was intentional, but it was really careless from Bell to skate so close to cause an injury, because she definitely must have noticed the other skater and did do anything... Bell was at fault here, IMO.

Oh, for the love of god...

Mariah was in her music. She had absolute right of way. She did nothing more than skate her usual program.

If anything, it's Eunsoo's fault for not paying attention to the skater who was in the music. It was Eunsoo's responsibility to get out of the way, not Mariah's.

 

[zoe111]

I doubt it was intentional, but it was really careless from Bell to skate so close to cause an injury, because she definitely must have noticed the other skater and did do anything... Bell was at fault here, IMO.

You have clearly never skated on a freestyle session as you don't seem to know the basic rules that are established 'globally no less' for right of way in practice sessions

 

[Japanfan]

I doubt Yuna is very hands-on there. Her mother, I don't know.

But if she runs the agency, she is arguably responsible to a certain extent. As Director - or another official leadership capacity - she is responsible to set and maintain rules of conduct for those beneath her.

She can't profit from the agency without taking any responsibility for it, sorry.

 

[Japanfan]

And yes, it was a travesty that even the US major television stations covered this story , but I blame that on the ridiculous coverage that "I, Tonya" received last year, giving false credence to Tonya--really an Emmy for acting out that shameful story about that shamed skater in that waste of a movie?

The movie was quite good and Allison Janney was rather brilliant. Plus, the movie captured the public's imagination.

Regardless of whether you consider the story shameful.

The Mariah-Lim story would have been covered extensively regardless. FS does love scandal.

 

[Meoima]

Oh, for the love of god...

Mariah was in her music. She had absolute right of way. She did nothing more than skate her usual program.

If anything, it's Eunsoo's fault for not paying attention to the skater who was in the music. It was Eunsoo's responsibility to get out of the way, not Mariah's.

While I do agree that it was not Mariah's fault, I do not think it was Eunsoo's fault for getting hurt. She was close to the boards. Literally too close to the boards, that means she knew she should avoid during other skaters' run-through. It was unlucky she got hit. The majority of skaters stay out of the way and did not look at the skater whose music is running during a run through and yet most of them do not get hurt. Eunsoo could have been one of them. Just this time it as unfortunate and people should not blame her for getting hurt. On her Instagram post, Eunsoo also did not blame anyone. I would say people should treat it as an incident which was not the fault of anyone. Accidents happen.

 

[Jaana]

Actually I do know the rules... I know that Bell´s music was playing, but that does not give her any right to go too close other skaters who are close to the boards and skate like no other people are existing. Lim was as close to boards as is possible, IMO.

 

[snoopy]

Well bell didn’t knock her down, she grazed her. Could have been a misjudgement.

 

[Carolla5501]

I doubt it was intentional, but it was really careless from Bell to skate so close to cause an injury, because she definitely must have noticed the other skater and did do anything... Bell was at fault here, IMO.

What's really careless is your post and your assumption that the skater you like should be put in a glass box and everyone should work around her. But I can solve that. Off to edit my ignore list LOL!

 

[MsZem]

Actually I do know the rules... I know that Bell´s music was playing, but that does not give her any right to go too close other skaters who are close to the boards and skate like no other people are existing. Lim was as close to boards as is possible, IMO.

Being near the boards does not absolve a skater of the need to pay attention during practice. Especially when someone else's music is playing.

Here's a quick take from a skater who was injured under similar circumstances.

 

[Wyliefan]

While I do agree that it was not Mariah's fault, I do not think it was Eunsoo's fault for getting hurt. She was close to the boards. Literally too close to the boards, that means she knew she should avoid during other skaters' run-through. It was unlucky she got hit. The majority of skaters stay out of the way and did not look at the skater whose music is running during a run through and yet most of them do not get hurt. Eunsoo could have been one of them. Just this time it as unfortunate and people should not blame her for getting hurt. On her Instagram post, Eunsoo also did not blame anyone. I would say people should treat it as an incident which was not the fault of anyone. Accidents happen.

Wait, Eunsoo posted on Instagram? What did she say? Her account appears to be protected, so I can't see.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Actually I do know the rules... I know that Bell´s music was playing, but that does not give her any right to go too close other skaters who are close to the boards and skate like no other people are existing. Lim was as close to boards as is possible, IMO.

Actually, you don't.

 

[UGG]

Actually I do know the rules... I know that Bell´s music was playing, but that does not give her any right to go too close other skaters who are close to the boards and skate like no other people are existing. Lim was as close to boards as is possible, IMO.

Uhhh she wasn’t “going too close to other skaters”. She was skating her choreography and at that point in her performance, she skates near the boards. It’s her run through and it’s the other skaters responsibility to allow her to perform her performance as choreographed, and they have to pay attention and get out of the way. Eunsoo should have been paying attention. If it were a car accident, Eunsoo would be at fault. Just look at it that way. Right of way means right of way. The end.

Mariah actually DOES have a right to skate close to other skaters if they’d are in the way of her choreography. Those skaters need to move.

 

[Aceon6]

Actually I do know the rules... I know that Bell´s music was playing, but that does not give her any right to go too close other skaters who are close to the boards and skate like no other people are existing. Lim was as close to boards as is possible, IMO.

Sorry, but you’re incorrect. The skater whose music is playing gets the entire ice surface. Many step sequences are designed to go right to the boards. Same for most lutz combos. Add in the possibility of a fall or wild landing on the x or y axis, skaters go close to the boards a LOT.

Look at the video again. The graze was so slight that it didn’t even disrupt Bell’s edge or speed. That tells me that Bell felt she was on the exact lobe her choreo demands.

 

[Meoima]

Wait, Eunsoo posted on Instagram? What did she say? Her account appears to be protected, so I can't see.

She clearly said: “I hope you won’t blame anyone for my sake.”
Here https://twitter.com/jennie_thesejin/status/1110027911640178689?s=21
She is still a kid and whatever her agency has been doing should be seen as directed by adults and not by her. But of course people here blame Eunsoo for getting hurt.

 

[RoseRed]

Actually I do know the rules... I know that Bell´s music was playing, but that does not give her any right to go too close other skaters who are close to the boards and skate like no other people are existing. Lim was as close to boards as is possible, IMO.

Well many top skaters have commented on this and they all seem to disagree with you. On the TSL pairs recap, Megan Duhamel specifically said that it is actually Eunsoo's responsibility to know where the skater whose music is playing is and make sure she's out of the way. Not Mariah's responsibility. She also pointed out that this kind of thing literally happens ALL THE TIME in skating. And it's really not a big deal at all.

 

[Meoima]

Sorry, but you’re incorrect. The skater whose music is playing gets the entire ice surface. Many step sequences are designed to go right to the boards. Same for most lutz combos. Add in the possibility of a fall or wild landing on the x or y axis, skaters go close to the boards a LOT.

Look at the video again. The graze was so slight that it didn’t even disrupt Bell’s edge or speed. That tells me that Bell felt she was on the exact lobe her choreo demands.

Eunsoo has practiced on the same rink with Mariah for a season, you would say she does not know how to stay away when other skaters are doing run-through? She did stay close to the boards as much as possible and she was literally walking on the ice. You would say she has never been on the same ice with Mariah during Mariah run-through? She knew it was Mariah’s run though, that’s why she was close to the boards. What else do you want her to do? Accident is accident. It’s unfortunate she was hurt and she did not blame anyone but here people be so merciless on her I am @_@????

 

[Aceon6]

@Meoima I do not blame either skater. It’s clearly an accident. However, when doing a root cause analysis, the reason for the accident is that Eunsoo is in a place where Mariah needs to go. As Mariah had right of way, the accident is more on Eunsoo. That’s how a car insurance company would look at it.

That said, I see this more as a minor incident. To continue the car insurance analogy, Eunsoo (and Eunsoo’s team) should have said “minor paint damage” to which Mariah would have said “sorry” and no claim would have even been filed.

All the blame goes to ATS seeding the story in Korean media.

 

[VGThuy]

It was an accident. Mariah thought there was enough space for her to do her small leg lift and didn’t intend to graze Eunsoo. Eunsoo wasn’t watching Mariah as closely as she should have but there was no collision. If we have to put fault in the situation, I’d say it was more on Lim since Mariah had the right of way and it was Lim’s responsibility to avoid her. However, the accident was a minor one but in the future it could have been worse so lesson learned. I think people are reacting strongly to Mariah getting all of the blame and hate on her social media accounts and from regular media sources who got a mischaracterized report that sounded like Mariah was aiming to injure Eunsoo and ran with it.

 

[UGG]

Eunsoo has practiced on the same rink with Mariah for a season, you would say she does not know how to stay away when other skaters are doing run-through? She did stay close to the boards as much as possible and she was literally walking on the ice. You would say she has never been on the same ice with Mariah during Mariah run-through? She knew it was Mariah’s run though, that’s why she was close to the boards. What else do you want her to do? Accident is accident. It’s unfortunate she was hurt and she did not blame anyone but here people be so merciless on her I am @_@????

Did you not read the merciless articles written about Mariah that accused her of stabbing and kicking Eunsoo. Yes it was an accident but it’s because of her agency’s reaction to the accident that people feel the need to point out that technically the accident is Eunsoo’s fault.

 

[MsZem]

@Meoima I do not blame either skater. It’s clearly an accident. However, when doing a root cause analysis, the reason for the accident is that Eunsoo is in a place where Mariah needs to go. As Mariah had right of way, the accident is more on Eunsoo. That’s how a car insurance company would look at it.

Yes, one would have to be really unfeeling to argue that Lim deserved to be hurt. But it's possible to think that she was more at fault, and that what ATS did to Bell was hideous, and still feel sympathy for Lim - just as it's possible to feel bad for someone who was hurt in a traffic accident in which they bore some of the blame.

 

[Birdseye]

I think we should all be able to agree that the real villains in this story are the management company and the vile individuals harassing Mariah.

 

[UGG]

Yes, one would have to be really unfeeling to argue that Lim deserved to be hurt. But it's possible to think that she was more at fault, and that what ATS did to Bell was hideous, and still feel sympathy for Lim - just as it's possible to feel bad for someone who was hurt in a traffic accident in which they bore some of the blame.

I have not read one post that has said she deserved to be hurt. Stating facts does not mean people do not feel badly. It’s simply stating facts. And Eunsoo was in the way and that’s what caused the accident. Most likely if her agency did not accuse another skater of assault, no one would be talking about it today.

 

[Skittl1321]

Actually I do know the rules... I know that Bell´s music was playing, but that does not give her any right to go too close other skaters who are close to the boards and skate like no other people are existing. Lim was as close to boards as is possible, IMO.

This is literally the opposite of how right of way works on practice ice. The skater whose music is playing basically owns the ice for the time.

 

[Badams]

The attention this has gotten, and the way people are carrying on, you'd think her leg was smashed or some other type of serious injury. She was grazed. She needed a band-aid. She didn't even require stitches or pain meds! This has gotten so beyond ridiculous.