ISU statement on Mariah Bell and Eun soo Lim

[aftershocks]

... the almighty aftershocks can be relied on for the absolute truth of a situation.

According to almighty misskarne. Please don't poke me with your sharp blades now.

 

[Amantide]

At this point... we just have to wait and see what music pieces Mariah picks for the 2019/2020 season.

I suggest Friction by Imagine Dragons.

 

[MsZem]

Looks like Bell has finally turned off comments on her more recent Instagram posts. Which, of course, has not stopped some of the more deranged trolls from commenting on her older ones (for instance, by "joking" that she killed Denis Ten).

Some people are disgusting.

 

[CantALoop]

Would you please stop to tell a lie, ATS? Real skating fans know exactly what was going on then and Mariah’s innocence is what we’ve DECIDED

 

[natsulian]

Bell and a few other American skaters including Timothy LeDuc and Ashley Cain were at a fan meet-and-greet recently. Bell received a lot of love and presents from the Japanese fans, and she seems to be doing quite well, albeit a little tired (very understandable). Bell has also turned off her comments on Instagram. As for the trolls, it’s literally the same 10 rabid fans spamming her. I’m glad we can put this drama to rest and hope both skaters, Bell and Lim, are healing, and Mariah might be selected to compete at the World Team Trophy, so let’s see what happens. All in all, this was a very drama-heavy week, but that can’t overshadow the fight, grit, and determination of the skaters who gave their lives for their performances, fighting each and every single step of the way.

 

[Rafter]

There are many rinks now that have continuous video footage through Live Barn.

In the locker room (which is where I assume any possible bullying took place)?

 

[Willin]

I suspect Eunsoo may need to spend at least a year at home. Other ATS athletes might want to sit down with their teams to make sure this doesn’t happen to them.

If Lim doesn't leave, he may lose more. I don't think this is the sort of incident that anybody involved forgets.

TBH I think the agency is the biggest issue. Who knows what Eunsoo herself thinks about the situation or if she even wanted it to blow up this way with the agency. ATS is probably better than the agencies handing KPop stars (who pay minimum wage for insane hours, force their talents to get plastic surgery, make them live in dorms no matter how famous they are, etc.) because of logistics, but in this incident they've shown themselves to be just as inconsiderate for their talent's wishes. If Eunsoo did want this public (which again, who's to say she did - who's to say she even made the claims her agency did) then she probably didn't want it public DURING the most important competition of the year.

Hopefully this will have two effects:
1. Korean skaters will realize ATS (and Korean agencies in general) do not have their best wishes at heart and ditch them. There are plenty of good agencies and agents around the world for figure skaters. Maybe it would affect their ability to get booked for Korean gigs, but given how popular skating is in Korea right now I don't know if I think it would have that big of an effect. (And given how crazy Korean fans of skaters and Kpop acts can be, maybe it's for the best if they don't get booked)
2. Coaches/skaters outside of Korea will have more reservations about training with a skater who is using ATS because it can bring drama/a bad image to their rink. This will add an extra layer of discouragement from using one of these exploitative agencies.

Either way I think Eunsoo will be out of Raf's camp whether she wants to be or not. Even if she wanted to stay I highly doubt Raf would keep her because of the drama she brought. If she wanted to leave, then this is a bad way to go out because it probably led many other top coaches to think twice about taking her as long as she's with ATS. Ultimately I feel really bad for her because she's the ultimate victim: she has no control over her own story or her agency's actions and that may hurt her future in skating.

Also, as a side note, although ATS is "run" by Yuna and her mother, somehow I doubt they had much if any say on this. If Yuna did I don't think this would've happened - she knows how this kind of drama can affect a skater and knows better than anyone how difficult Korean media attention and agencies can make life difficult for skaters.

 

[Finsta]

If the bullying story is anything similar to the Mariah stabbing her story then no- Eunsoo is not the victim. Bell is. It’s already proven the stabbing story is a lie. Why would people put weight in the bullying story?

 

[Lovemyvike]

For such a beautiful sport, figure skating "fans" sure know how to turn on the ugly...

 

[vesperholly]

In the locker room (which is where I assume any possible bullying took place)?

I was responding to someone commenting about video not being available for practice sessions. I haven't seen anything about where the alleged bullying was, if it was on ice or off.

 

[Jammers]

So is this story finally done and over with? Mariah did nothing wrong and someone needs to apologize to her for slandering her character.

 

[vesperholly]

I would've liked USFS to stand up for their skater. Their silence is deafening.

 

[morgan rye]

I don't know how "skaters parents' thinking works" and if this situation will affect anyone's consideration to skate with Rafael (if he takes them).... All i know a) he did nothing wrong, he is not involved. b) there are no grounds for any legal action, directly or tangently, to involve him. c) if Lim stays, it will only prove that this situation is a fluke/mistake.

Work is work, gossip is gossip. work comes first. hope they all stay together....

It's all over people. Just an over zealous agent trying to get attention for his client. If eunoo is unhappy in Cali with RAF she will leave at the end of the season. My guess is RAF will tell eunoo and/or the Korean federation to call off the dogs. There was no slashing r cutting. Mariah's free leg barely touched eunsoo in passing. Mariah didn't even know her skate touched her. Don't know if eunsoo is a whiner or what. Hope not.

 

[starrynight]

I would've liked USFS to stand up for their skater. Their silence is deafening.

Although they may be avoiding throwing another log onto the fire. If they make big public statements, it will just result in another round of articles. Maybe they consider it best to just let the story die?

 

[Japanfan]

Although they may be avoiding throwing another log onto the fire. If they make big public statements, it will just result in another round of articles. Maybe they consider it best to just let the story die?

I think it's more important that they stand up for their skater. Federations are supposed to have their skaters' backs, or so they say, and I expect that Mariah needs the support right now. She may well be feeling rather abandoned by her federation.

 

[vesperholly]

Although they may be avoiding throwing another log onto the fire. If they make big public statements, it will just result in another round of articles. Maybe they consider it best to just let the story die?

Yes, now it would. The right time was immediately after the ISU issued their statement.

 

[jiejie]

I think it's more important that they stand up for their skater. Federations are supposed to have their skaters' backs, or so they say, and I expect that Mariah needs the support right now. She may well be feeling rather abandoned by her federation.

How do we know USFS isn't standing up for her? There are ways besides public statements to do so. IMO, the most effective way would be to lodge a complaint with the ISU against the Korean Federation and then file separate legal action in US court on behalf of Mariah against ATS, for both the accusations in Saitama and particularly the accusations of bullying in California. At this time, this is best done privately.

 

[Carolla5501]

TBH I think the agency is the biggest issue. Who knows what Eunsoo herself thinks about the situation or if she even wanted it to blow up this way with the agency. ATS is probably better than the agencies handing KPop stars (who pay minimum wage for insane hours, force their talents to get plastic surgery, make them live in dorms no matter how famous they are, etc.) because of logistics, but in this incident they've shown themselves to be just as inconsiderate for their talent's wishes. If Eunsoo did want this public (which again, who's to say she did - who's to say she even made the claims her agency did) then she probably didn't want it public DURING the most important competition of the year.

Hopefully this will have two effects:
1. Korean skaters will realize ATS (and Korean agencies in general) do not have their best wishes at heart and ditch them. There are plenty of good agencies and agents around the world for figure skaters. Maybe it would affect their ability to get booked for Korean gigs, but given how popular skating is in Korea right now I don't know if I think it would have that big of an effect. (And given how crazy Korean fans of skaters and Kpop acts can be, maybe it's for the best if they don't get booked)
2. Coaches/skaters outside of Korea will have more reservations about training with a skater who is using ATS because it can bring drama/a bad image to their rink. This will add an extra layer of discouragement from using one of these exploitative agencies.

Either way I think Eunsoo will be out of Raf's camp whether she wants to be or not. Even if she wanted to stay I highly doubt Raf would keep her because of the drama she brought. If she wanted to leave, then this is a bad way to go out because it probably led many other top coaches to think twice about taking her as long as she's with ATS. Ultimately I feel really bad for her because she's the ultimate victim: she has no control over her own story or her agency's actions and that may hurt her future in skating.

Also, as a side note, although ATS is "run" by Yuna and her mother, somehow I doubt they had much if any say on this. If Yuna did I don't think this would've happened - she knows how this kind of drama can affect a skater and knows better than anyone how difficult Korean media attention and agencies can make life difficult for skaters.

In other words the management should be held blameless. LOL.

Sorry, but if Yuna and her mother run the agency they get to take the blame.

 

[kwanatic]

In other words the management should be held blameless. LOL.

Sorry, but if Yuna and her mother run the agency they get to take the blame.

I really think the blame goes to ATS for making the accusations AND to the Korean new stations that ran with the story without bothering to dig into it or get more facts. That's just shitty journalism/news coverage. Any reputable news source won't publish something without checking the facts at least a little bit. ATS's accusation left a lot of information out and painted a much MUCH different picture than what actually happened and was easily debunked by a 15 second video.

It's pathetic and I maintain that if I were Mariah's people I'd be looking to sue the pants off of someone.

 

[MsZem]

Sorry, but if Yuna and her mother run the agency they get to take the blame.

I doubt Yuna is very hands-on there. Her mother, I don't know.

 

[Tinami Amori]

It's pathetic and I maintain that if I were Mariah's people I'd be looking to sue the pants off of someone.

Mariah's people would need to prove "damage from defamation (slander/libel)", some significant impact, injury to the reputation) done by ATS and Lim. It would be hard to prove in this case (the damage, not the bad feelings), and not worth the time, and may not help Mariah's reputation either.

I read Korean sports press (with google translate), during past 4 days. What i see (imo) is Eun-soon's name in the headlines, and placed in first paragraphs of the sports articles, described as a victim, praised as one of the top skaters, and put in the "same flow" of events along side of the top 6 finishers in Ladies events.... The flow of the articles go pretty much like this: Lim, top Korean skater, with excellent results all season long, up on the rise... then the incident... then... in the same breath... the great results of Miahara, Kihira, Sakomoto, and medals of Zagitova, Tusynbaeva, Medvedeva.

So, now the Korean readers have a snap-shot/an image: Eun-soo Lim in the same company as Miahara, Kihira, Sakomoto, Zagitova, Tusynbaeva, Medvedeva.
Eun-soo Lim is now a bigger star/celebrity in Korea than she was before.....

I hate dirty tricks, manipulations and gaining something at others' expense unlawfully.

What i would rather Mariah's side did, is not a law suite... but hire an investigator, and trace the behavior of ATS to an intentional publicity stunt, and make it public. Because as far as i see it, this was a dirty trick; using the situation (which is normal during practices) as a platform to promote.

 

[Spun Silver]

I doubt Yuna is very hands-on there. Her mother, I don't know.

This article is 9 years old but at the time of the agency's founding Yu Na was a major share holder and her mother CEO and share holder. http://mengnews.joins.com/view.aspx?aid=2919696

Unless that has changed, Yu Na's mother has had ample time to shut this down (if indeed she wasn't behind the whole thing) and, assuming she is not non compos mentis, made an executive decision not to do so. I agree we have no reason to think Yu Na was initially involved, but it's also a stretch to think she wouldn't have input into the handling of a figure skating crisis at Worlds. And her mother as CEO runs the ship. I don't see any way to hold her blameless at this point. Not to say she couldnt still find a way to make things right. Not that I know quite what that would be if Mariah does decide to sue.

 

[UGG]

This article is 9 years old but at the time of the agency's founding Yu Na was a major share holder and her mother CEO and share holder. http://mengnews.joins.com/view.aspx?aid=2919696

Unless that has changed, Yu Na's mother has had ample time to shut this down (if indeed she wasn't behind the whole thing) and, assuming she is not non compos mentis, made an executive decision not to do so. I agree we have no reason to think Yu Na was initially involved, but it's also a stretch to think she wouldn't have input into the handling of a figure skating crisis at Worlds. And her mother as CEO runs the ship. I don't see any way to hold her blameless at this point. Not to say she couldnt still find a way to make things right. Not that I know quite what that would be if Mariah does decide to sue.

 

[CaliSteve]

Mariah's people would need to prove "damage from defamation (slander/libel)", some significant impact, injury to the reputation) done by ATS and Lim. It would be hard to prove in this case (the damage, not the bad feelings), and not worth the time, and may not help Mariah's reputation either.

I read Korean sports press (with google translate), during past 4 days. What i see (imo) is Eun-soon's name in the headlines, and placed in first paragraphs of the sports articles, described as a victim, praised as one of the top skaters, and put in the "same flow" of events along side of the top 6 finishers in Ladies events.... The flow of the articles go pretty much like this: Lim, top Korean skater, with excellent results all season long, up on the rise... then the incident... then... in the same breath... the great results of Miahara, Kihira, Sakomoto, and medals of Zagitova, Tusynbaeva, Medvedeva.

So, now the Korean readers have a snap-shot/an image: Eun-soo Lim in the same company as Miahara, Kihira, Sakomoto, Zagitova, Tusynbaeva, Medvedeva.
Eun-soo Lim is now a bigger star/celebrity in Korea than she was before.....

I hate dirty tricks, manipulations and gaining something at others' expense unlawfully.

What i would rather Mariah's side did, is not a law suite... but hire an investigator, and trace the behavior of ATS to an intentional publicity stunt, and make it public. Because as far as i see it, this was a dirty trick; using the situation (which is normal during practices) as a platform to promote.

Bingo. It was all a publicity stunt. This is an ATS MO.

 

[overedge]

Hopefully this will have two effects:
1. Korean skaters will realize ATS (and Korean agencies in general) do not have their best wishes at heart and ditch them. There are plenty of good agencies and agents around the world for figure skaters. Maybe it would affect their ability to get booked for Korean gigs, but given how popular skating is in Korea right now I don't know if I think it would have that big of an effect. (And given how crazy Korean fans of skaters and Kpop acts can be, maybe it's for the best if they don't get booked).

True, but maybe the Korean skaters don't have much choice. From the client roster it looks like ATS is "the" agency to go with for the top Korean sports stars. And it was founded by one of Korea's most famous sports stars ever. Signing with a different agency might be seen as disloyal to the country or disrespectful to Queen Yu-na.

2. Coaches/skaters outside of Korea will have more reservations about training with a skater who is using ATS because it can bring drama/a bad image to their rink. This will add an extra layer of discouragement from using one of these exploitative agencies.

I think ATS already brought the drama and the bad image with the way they treated the end of Orser and Yu-na's coaching relationship. This is just more fuel on that particular fire.

 

[Carolla5501]

I doubt Yuna is very hands-on there. Her mother, I don't know.

If you’re going to let your name be associated with something, maybe you should consider hands-on. Sorry this trying to insulate her from blame from an organization she is associated with doesn’t work. If you decide to associate yourself with something you are accepting responsibility for what they do unless you open your mouth and say something. And I haven’t seen anything from Yuna Or her mother.


If they want the cash, They have to live with the consequences


And the consequences are there associated with an organization that apparently has no ethics. Pretty much makes them look bad

 

[Carolla5501]

True, but maybe the Korean skaters don't have much choice. From the client roster it looks like ATS is "the" agency to go with for the top Korean sports stars. And it was founded by one of Korea's most famous sports stars ever. Signing with a different agency might be seen as disloyal to the country or disrespectful to Queen Yu-na.



I think ATS already brought the drama and the bad image with the way they treated the end of Orser and Yu-na's coaching relationship. This is just more fuel on that particular fire.

So if she’s going to be responsible for an agency that engages in this kind of trash, does she deserve the respect?

 

[Spun Silver]

True, but maybe the Korean skaters don't have much choice. From the client roster it looks like ATS is "the" agency to go with for the top Korean sports stars. And it was founded by one of Korea's most famous sports stars ever. Signing with a different agency might be seen as disloyal to the country or disrespectful to Queen Yu-na.



I think ATS already brought the drama and the bad image with the way they treated the end of Orser and Yu-na's coaching relationship. This is just more fuel on that particular fire.

Jun Hwan Cha and Young You are not listed among their skaters, so there must be alternatives. Perhaps IB, the agency Yu Na left to start her own management company.
http://www.atsports.co.kr/eng/board/bbs/board.php?bo_table=en_management

 

[Lacey]

Reposted by me, think I put in wrong place:

At the end of her long program, Mariah seemed so ultimately relieved, not only as if well at least I skated the best I could, but also as if she felt that the ATS exaggerated thing hanging over her could no longer do damage to her psyche because it was over over over, no matter the skating placement. I have never seen anything like that, Mariah was banging her head to banish the thoughts from her brain as if to say, that was a bigger hurdle than the actual skating, poor thing. Mariah is a very mature woman to have overcome the treatment others had wrongly tried to send her way and to have carried the whole issue on her shoulders throughout the week.

No skater should have to be put through this in the middle of a competition. To me, the ISU didn't do enough to tell people the issue had been addressed and that the skater on program had had the right of way, and instruct people to shut up about it--that the girls themselves had even kissed and made up. And I have to wonder what part/non part the USFS had in not helping clear things up.

And yes, it was a travesty that even the US major television stations covered this story , but I blame that on the ridiculous coverage that "I, Tonya" received last year, giving false credence to Tonya--really an Emmy for acting out that shameful story about that shamed skater in that waste of a movie?

 

[skatingguy]

Reposted by me, think I put in wrong place:

At the end of her long program, Mariah seemed so ultimately relieved, not only as if well at least I skated the best I could, but also as if she felt that the ATS exaggerated thing hanging over her could no longer do damage to her psyche because it was over over over, and--kudos to her--no matter the skating placement. I have never seen anything like that, she was banging her head to banish the thoughts from her brain as if to say, that was a bigger hurdle than the actual skating, poor thing. Mariah is a very mature woman to have overcome the treatment others had wrongly tried to send her way.

No skater should have to be put through this in the middle of a competition. To me, the ISU didn't do enough to tell people the issue had been addressed and that the skater on program had had the right of way, and instruct people to shut up about it--that the girls themselves had even kissed and made up. And I have to wonder what part/non part the USFS had in not helping clear things up.

And yes, it was a travesty that even the US major television stations covered this story , but I blame that on the ridiculous coverage that "I, Tonya" received last year, giving false credence to Tonya--really an Emmy for acting out that shameful story about that shamed skater in that waste of a movie?

To be fair once ATS made their statements to the media it just ran away on social media, and that why they did it. The ISU attempting to clamp down on that would have only amplified the reaction of those who were attacking Mariah Bell, and they would have seen it as an attempt to cover up what they see as bullying of Lim. It's unfortunate because these incidents have happened again and again with Korean skaters and it paints a poor picture of the Korean fans.