Downton Abbey Season 6 - PBS broadcast

[Artemis@BC]

... I'm pretty sure the ambulance said Yorkshire, and it seemed rather modern and fancy for the local hospital, but I could be wrong. ...

I didn't notice that, but if it said Yorkshire that doesn't narrow it down -- Downton and its un-named village are in the county of Yorkshire.

But as I was reminded on another board, Bates said something about walking into the village the next morning with whatever Robert might need, so I guess that means he's at the local hospital.

I've always thought that hospital looked rather large and grand for a village, but it no-doubt serves a larger area. Plus Violet has mentioned more than once about her late husband funding it, so it doesn't have to be "in proportion."

We're still 20+ years away from National Health though. So has the Crawley family been paying the hospital staff's salaries all this time? I doubt it's run as a commercial enterprise. There might be some other charitable funding -- and Isobel mentioned being almoner so there's something to administer. It does explain why Violet is so invested in it all.

 

[maatTheViking]

Oh, one more thing - why did Chamberlain have to tell Tom about how Violet had him come? It seemed very contrived that he asked at that point, and I wonder what dramatic purpose it serves Tom to know?

I doubt Tom will go into politics again, or use such a thing against an opponent? Was it just to satisfy the viewer's curiosity?

 

[Artemis@BC]

Oh, one more thing - why did Chamberlain have to tell Tom about how Violet had him come? It seemed very contrived that he asked at that point, and I wonder what dramatic purpose it serves Tom to know?

I doubt Tom will go into politics again, or use such a thing against an opponent? Was it just to satisfy the viewer's curiosity?

I thought it was just Fellowes being clever -- perhaps the story about Chamberlain's youthful antics is true (I can't be bothered to look that up) and something he thought he'd try to work into the story somehow. But it came across as just filler.

[ETA: I just spotted this:
http://time.com/4192729/neville-chamberlain-downton-pranks/]

Hey, just bringing in Chamberlain at all is Fellowes being clever. And that bit in the servants' hall, Carson or someone else saying "He's very impressive, they say he could be Prime Minister some day."

The whole thing was badly handled, I thought -- when Chamberlain arrives he's launched into conversation but is never actually introduced to anyone ... However I like Rupert Frazer, and he does bear a striking resemblance to Chamberlain.

 

[skatingfan5]

Oh, one more thing - why did Chamberlain have to tell Tom about how Violet had him come? It seemed very contrived that he asked at that point, and I wonder what dramatic purpose it serves Tom to know?

I doubt Tom will go into politics again, or use such a thing against an opponent? Was it just to satisfy the viewer's curiosity?

I don't think it serves any plot purpose other than to explain how on Earth Violet managed to get Chamberlain to come to dinner, especially since her connection was so distant (her late husband being the godfather of Chamberlain's wife). And maybe to give a fictional adventure to Chamberlain's connection to the real life prankster, Horace de Vere Cole. Some of his pranks were very juvenile but . For example, as cited in the Daily Mail:

Here was a man who once stood in the street handing out free theatre tickets to a series of extremely bald passers-by with the result that, when viewed from the dress circle, the assembly of shiny bald heads in the carefully chosen seats clearly spelt out an expletive - complete with a dot over the 'i'. A regular prank was to wander the streets with a cow's udder poking through his flies. At the moment of optimum outrage, he would then produce a pair of scissors and snip off the offending protrusion.

 

[Jenny]

I thought it was a bit contrived too - but they needed some dramatik moment for Robert's big display, so it had to be more than a usual family dinner. Plus I think Fellowes wanted a timely foreshadowing to what would come in the next decade fro a geo-political standpoint. I also thought it was weird he seemed so cozy with Tom - and while I know Tom's not all about class distinction etc I did think it rather forward of him to speak to a government minister in such a familiar manner, and in the middle of Robert's serious emergency.

It did seem like a bit of a mish mash of thin plot devices to get information to the viewer, without sitting back and really considering how each character would act in that situation. As I said, I was really surprised at Bates in particular.

 

[skategal]

I thought the point of having the story between Chamberlain and Tom was to demonstrate that Robert was right when he said "Mother must have blackmailed him to get him to come for dinner."

 

[Jenny]

Yes, but why Tom? Would have made more sense if Mary or Edith asked Violet directly because she probably would have told them. Doesn't make sense that an up and coming politician would reveal it to someone he just met, or that Tom would ask a minister of government a personal question like that - especially when his father in law was in serious peril at that moment.

 

[Coco]

It could have been used as comic relief because it looked like Robert was dying. Also, Tom would arguably be the most likely to ask because not being "well bred" he wouldn't be as restrained from asking questions.

The whole thing was contrived, but wasn't there some crack about Neville being "drawn into someone else's battle?" I thought that was some subtle political commentary, perhaps.

 

[Wyliefan]

Daisy...oy. Less history, more basic skills. She's not really getting educated, she's learning facts but she's never learned the logical reasoning skills to know what to do with them. #ShutUpDaisy

Excellent point.

 

[skatesindreams]

Daisy: An example of "A Little Knowledge Is A Dangerous Thing".

 

[danceronice]

Such relationships were not uncommon.
My paternal grandparents met while employed, similarly.

How were people who spent their lives "in service" supposed to meet others?

It's a guarantee that Carson and Mrs Hughes won't be having any grandchildren. We already saw a couple examples of 'how servants meet potential mates' with Anna and Bates, and more dysfunctionally with Daisy and William. I just don't buy that two people well past the marrying age who've known each other for decades would just spontaneously fall in love and decide to get married (I never got any 'vibe' from them until it just showed up out of nowhere at the beach). Plus the idea they could settle comfortably after living their own lives would have seemed obviously doomed, I would have thought--they've been single too long living in a really regimented lifestyle to adjust to isolated living as a couple easily or at all. It just feels both random emotionally plus cheap drama from the inevitable conflict trying to live together now that people are over "traumatize Anna and Bates".

 

[Jenny]

I think they might have written it in for shipping fans.

 

[maatTheViking]

I agree @danceronice - the fact they have known each other for so long makes it odd.

I actually see Mr. Mason and Mrs. Patmore as being more realistic. Mrs. Patmore seem to have expressed interest in companionship before, and while she might have felt 'too busy' as a cook earlier in her life to persue relationships (esp. if one had failed already - wasn't there some old story?), it makes sense that now she sees other people with that she want to think about old age?

both Carson and Mrs Hughes seem so dedicated to their life in service at Downton, that it doesn't make sense for them to move out.

I certainly can see the younger people, like Daisy and William (no matter how dysfunctional) meeting and marrying.

Btw - in the early seasons we did see more kitchenmaids and also housemaids living in the house. When Daisy was doing the fires one morning, it was because one of the maids were sick. So I suppose there are some maids left. Why don't they ever eat in the servants hall? Even if they don't live in, it seems odd we never see them. I don't think Ms Baxter and Anna does the cleaning... and who dresses Edith? They don't have to be involved in the drama, but I feel it is a little lazy they don't have some extras at least?

 

[Artemis@BC]

^ Well we really only see Mary being dressed because it's an opportunity for Anna & Mary interactions -- so there's be no point in a similar scene between Edith and whatever housemaid "does" for her unless that maid was going to be a full character with dialogue.

I do remember some scenes recently with un-named housemaids, either in the servants' hall or somewhere else, but it might have been a repeat rather than from this season. However if the housemaids don't live in, they likely wouldn't be eating breakfast or dinner with the rest of the staff, and we don't normally see the servants' lunch.

 

[skatingfan5]

To all those dismissing the Carson/Hughes marriage, Fellowes is just copying the DA predecessor and inspiration of Upstaris, Downstairs, which had Mr. Hudson and Mrs. Bridges tying the knot as they said, "better late than never" in the final episode of that series more than 40 years ago. They went to run a seaside boarding house and took along the hapless Ruby with them (I don't see the Carsons doing that!). Daisy and Edward were the younger maid/footman marriage from that show (although their chauffeur had a much more spectacular marriage, taking an inconveniently pregnant former maid off the Bellamy's hands). Anyway, I am not going to throw any rain on Carson and Mrs. Hughes late-life union.

 

[tamuno]

I think they might have written it in for shipping fans.

And I hope they are enjoying it! lol

 

[Jenny]

There have been many references to the staff gradually getting smaller over the years, and it's likely that a house like that once had a lot more house guests, dinner parties, large receptions, weekend shooting parties etc, so Mrs Patmore is likely a lot less busy than she once was. I think there have also been references several times to day servants who would therefore not join the live-in staff for meals.

 

[skatesindreams]

Well, I would not exist, if my grandparents hadn't found one another while "in service"!

 

[Artemis@BC]

To all those dismissing the Carson/Hughes marriage, Fellowes is just copying the DA predecessor and inspiration of Upstaris, Downstairs, which had Mr. Hudson and Mrs. Bridges tying the knot as they said, "better late than never" in the final episode of that series more than 40 years ago.

I was thinking the same thing. And, although it's been a very long time since I saw it, I seem to recall that their marriage really came out of left field, with absolutely no hint of affection between them before that. At least with Mrs Hughes and Mr Carson we had some indication beforehand.

 

[skatingfan5]

I was thinking the same thing. And, although it's been a very long time since I saw it, I seem to recall that their marriage really came out of left field, with absolutely no hint of affection between them before that. At least with Mrs Hughes and Mr Carson we had some indication beforehand.

Hudson and Mrs. Bridges were long-time confidantes (at least I remember them talking over various goings on over a cup of tea); I don't remember much overt affection, but they did discuss possible plans for post-service life.

 

[Coco]

When they were getting organized to go to the hospital, didn't Carson say "don't forget Edith" to Anna? Or am I making that up? Perhaps Edith's maid is only part time? Or no longer there?

 

[flyingsit]

Edith doesn't have her own maid. Anna was promoted from housemaid to lady's maid when Mary married Matthew; unmarried women don't have their own maids, and don't get breakfast in bed either.

 

[Coco]

But don't they have clothes that they literally need help getting in and out of?

 

[skatesindreams]

Not so much as earlier.
Styles had simplified; although there are layers.

 

[Artemis@BC]

But don't they have clothes that they literally need help getting in and out of?

There's almost certainly a housemaid who "does" for Edith, particularly in terms of taking care of her clothes (laundry, mending, etc.) and probably also helping her with her hair. However the "and don't forget Edith" comment was, I think, just getting their coats so they could go off to the hospital. Whatever housemaid(s) might normally perform clothing tasks for Edith would likely not be there at that time of night, so it made sense for Anna to get Edith's coat, purse, and whatever else, at the same time she was getting Mary's things.

 

[skatesindreams]

There's almost certainly a housemaid who "does" for Edith, particularly in terms of taking care of her clothes (laundry, mending, etc.)

Before the reduction in staff, in many households there was a maid who did nothing except laundry, mending, etc.

The "lady's maid", eg. Anna; would usually handle these things, as well as helping with dressing and hair.
It could be a considerable responsibility, since that person usually had access to jewelry and other valuables, also.

 

[Jenny]

You don't see much of it in Downton other than Baxter sewing all the time (though often it appears to be needlepoint or embroidery projects), and the shoe room is mostly an excuse for Bates and Anna to have private conversations during the day.

But in Gosford Park there's a fun scene on the first night of the weekend party where all the maids and butlers are in a room doing shoes, pressing clothes and making repairs. Their conversation tells you a lot about the typical duties of the day and who does what.

There's also some fun detail right at the beginning when all the visiting servants are arriving and you see the more experienced ones getting right to it ("where' the gun room?") and the lesser experienced getting schooled by the housekeeper and house servants ("the jewel cases go in the safe, but be sure to take out tonight's jewelry now to save yourself a step later" - wise words considering the safe might have been many staircases and hallways away).

I love that movie - I've watched it many times and always pick up some small detail that I had missed previously. All the extras on the DVD version are also very interesting.

 

[Artemis@BC]

The "lady's maid", eg. Anna; would usually handle these things, as well as helping with dressing and hair.
It could be a considerable responsibility, since that person usually had access to jewelry and other valuables, also.

Yes, I know that. The point though (and stemming from Coco's question upthread) is that Edith doesn't have a lady's maid because she's not married. However she still has clothes to be taken care of -- even if she can fully dress herself and do her own hair, there's no way she's doing her own laundry and mending.

Anna is a full-time lady's maid for Mary, as Baxter is for Cora. The un-named and un-seen housemaid(s) who, in addition to taking care of Edith's clothes etc., would also have a slew of other housemaid responsibilities -- cleaning mostly.

Somewhat OT, but I remember in Upstairs Downstairs (the original) the maids were referred to as house-parlour maids: during the day they did housemaid cleaning stuff, but would also serve tea in the parlour (hence parlour maid), and possibly also serve at meals, though Carson would have something to say about that!

 

[Jenny]

My favourite Upstairs Downstairs is when the King comes to dinner. Rose is quite miffed that she will not be allowed to serve in the dining room as she is accustomed to doing, because as Mr Hudson explains, the King does not approve of female servants in the dining room.

 

[Artemis@BC]

^ Oh, I'd forgotten about that one!

Once Downton is over I might just have to re-watch all of Upstairs Downstairs.