Downton Abbey Season 6 - PBS broadcast

[jlai]

Well he did try to help the Turk get in Mary's bedroom, steal wine and hide the master's dog. Although hopefully he wishes up with age

 

[Artemis@BC]

was i imagining things but was molesley trying to interject and help out cora with the painting ID and she just moved on the the one she knew more about? he would LOVE to do the tours.

No, not imagining things -- unless we were both imagining. I interpreted it that way too.

Calm down. Mosely is going to move up in the world (becoming a teacher) and the evil or not so evil butler will get to stay. *Prediction, not spoiler!*

But would Thomas really want to stay on if he's demoted back to footman? In the vague hope that he'll get Carson's job once Carson retires/dies?

Something tells me that things aren't going to end well for Thomas. It would be unrealistic if everyone got a happy ending, and he might just be Fellowes' sacrifice to the believability gods.

 

[my little pony]

i offer edith as tribute! save #evilbutler

 

[Spun Silver]

Robert will be the sacrifice. The blood is on the wall. Carson will obediently get an ulcer and retire. The eville butler will stay!

 

[Jenny]

I found the tour completely believable, and I think beyond the comedy, Fellowes was making some strong points. First is that the people who came to the tour, rather than being poor farmers and village people who would just gawk or lowlifes there to steal, were knowledgeable, educated people interested in history, architecture and art. This is important - in the old world, it was us and them - but the people on the tour represented the rising class of people in the middle - not as well bred, but educated and engaged beyond the trappings of the House and the Village model.

Which brings me to Cora, Mary and Edith. This was a stark illustration of what Mary alluded to already this season - their "education" is pretty much irrelevant. They can speak French and play the pianoforte and use the right fork, but they know zero about history, art and architecture, including that of their own family and home. As someone already said, they take it all for granted, and never had the intellectual curiosity to find out more. I think there's also a sense for the women in the family that it's not really theirs - historically the home belongs to the male line, and even Mary in some ways considers herself a mere steward until George inherits both home and title.

Which brings me to Robert. My bet is that had he been conducting the tour, he would have had a lot more to say. He grew up knowing he would be titled and carrying on the name, so he would have been schooled by his father and others on family history and the home itself, and he would have grown up looking at those portraits and knowing that one day his would be there too. Ditto Violet - although also a temporary figure in the house's history (she hasn't even lived there in decades), she comes from a time when all that was more important and she likely took great pride in the family history and home. We saw that momentarily when she clearly knew a point about the 4th Earl; recall also the circles she travelled in - important families she references from time to time, travels to Russia and no doubt elsewhere, so her world view, while appearing stuck in the past, is actually much broader than the isolated lives of Cora, Mary and Edith.

And of course the underlying point of the entire series and especially this season was on full display - the established way of life, including all the objects that go with it, are becoming dusty museum pieces at best, forgotten relics at worst.

On another note, I really hope we are not being set up for a Very Special Episode of Downton in which the long misunderstood, own worst enemy gay man takes his own life.

 

[skatesindreams]

Which brings me to Robert. My bet is that had he been conducting the tour, he would have had a lot more to say. He grew up knowing he would be titled and carrying on the name, so he would have been schooled by his father and others on family history and the home itself, and he would have grown up looking at those portraits and knowing that one day his would be there too.

And of course the underlying point of the entire series and especially this season was on full display - the established way of life, including all the objects that go with it, are becoming dusty museum pieces at best, forgotten relics at worst.

Even now, when you see a documentary featuring a tour of a Royal/stately home, they are most often done by the men of the family.

I agree with your interpretation of the theme of the series, as well.

 

[Jenny]

One thing that's bugging me is that this downsizing or simplifying is focused on Barrow, who not only wants to stay in service but is versatile in his skills and experience and therefore a candidate for taking on extra duties in a smaller staff or otherwise evolving his position. Moseley has gained experience, but even if the family doesn't know Carson certainly does know that he has interests beyond his work. Andy is inexperienced, and even Mary and Tom know he wants to learn pig farming. It doesn't make sense.

The other thing I'm wondering about is why other options aren't being considered. Edith is independent, but if she spend more and more of her time in London she might need a servant or two, especially if Marigold eventually moves with her. Bertie likely doesn't come with a servant, so if they set up a household they will surely need at least some help. (And is that crowded apartment suitable, or would she take over the family's townhouse?) There's also Rosamund - did she not mention a few eps ago about breaking in yet another butler? Barrow might be better suited to her house anyone - in London, a little less stuck in the old ways and ideas. And Isabel - proudly does not want help (although surely she's not doing all the cleaning and laundering herself?) but surely does not want to see long time employees put out on the street. And they have a librarian on staff?? That's bizarre because the Earl doesn't even have a secretary.

 

[gkelly]

Well, I'll assume the librarian is not a full-time Downton employee but essentially a library consultant who lives nearby and is usually available when needed (not many library emergencies, after all), but also has other sources of income.

But in general I'd agree that neither plotting nor continuity is a strong point of this series.

 

[Erin]

And Isabel - proudly does not want help (although surely she's not doing all the cleaning and laundering herself?) but surely does not want to see long time employees put out on the street.

She seemed to be OK with it when Mr. Molesley was out of work after Matthew died, which I thought was rather out of character for her. I guess in that case it could be explained by her being (understandably) distraught over Matthew but I still thought the response was odd for her, especially given that she had previously been willing to employ a former prostitute who couldn't cook, and just in there to move the plot along.

But in general I'd agree that neither plotting nor continuity is a strong point of this series.

Agreed.

 

[danceronice]

I found the tour completely believable, and I think beyond the comedy, Fellowes was making some strong points. First is that the people who came to the tour, rather than being poor farmers and village people who would just gawk or lowlifes there to steal, were knowledgeable, educated people interested in history, architecture and art. This is important - in the old world, it was us and them - but the people on the tour represented the rising class of people in the middle - not as well bred, but educated and engaged beyond the trappings of the House and the Village model.

But if they didn't know that a Reynolds is more important than a no-name, they aren't THAT educated (that is an incredibly valuable portrait over on the stairs. And you could spin it into Reynolds in general. Heck, throw in some good sex scandal, he painted the famous courtesan Kitty Fisher, whom I know from using a rhyme to talk about my pocket--"Lucy Locket lost her pocket/Kitty Fisher found it/not a penny was there in it/only ribbon round it.") One would THINK Cora would have picked up more than just "we have a Reynolds, and the house was an abbey", but Mary and Edith did make the point no one taught them much--though I'm not surprised they don't know things like architecture or art history (and maybe it's my real-world experience with public tours coming through but thinking that average visitors even NOW would understand the degree of detail that one could give is giving far too much credit) but I AM surprised that they don't know which paintings are their own relatives. Even if they can't comment on the artist (and most aren't going to be famous like Reynolds) one would think they'd have been told "that's your great-great grandfather."

Really, most visitors want to hear about the women and horses Granny mentioned. Get a good shocking scandal story and you'll have them eating out of your hand.

 

[skatesindreams]

In 2016; yes, in the UK 1926, I doubt it.

 

[danceronice]

In 2016; yes, in the UK 1926, I doubt it.

People don't change that much. A good scandal is always more interesting, even with a new class that has leisure time to bother with things they don't need to know but now have time to dabble in.

 

[Jenny]

but I AM surprised that they don't know which paintings are their own relatives. Even if they can't comment on the artist (and most aren't going to be famous like Reynolds) one would think they'd have been told "that's your great-great grandfather."

I'm not surprised. There are a lot of portraits in the house - they're probably almost blind to them in the way Cora said she'd never noticed that the shields on the mantel are blank. And unless someone is interested in their family history (some of us are, some of us aren't) you might have been told at some point but no longer remember.

Memory also plays tricks, including in family lore. One person mistakes a portrait for the wrong relative, and it soon becomes "fact" because there's no one else around any more to dispute it.

 

[SkateGuard]

Sharing this here as well! A figure skating blog even the Dowager would approve of... "Downton Abbey On Ice: The Sensational Stories Of Skating Servants":

http://skateguard1.blogspot.ca/2016/02/downton-abbey-on-ice-sensational.html

 

[maatTheViking]

On another note, I really hope we are not being set up for a Very Special Episode of Downton in which the long misunderstood, own worst enemy gay man takes his own life.

The thing with Thomas was that when he came back from the war, and tried to do black market dealing, he turned back on his 'character improvement'. Then when O'Brien left he kept trying to scheme. I felt that this is the first season he tried to grow up and be nice (well, maybe last too), so in some way it is NOT surprising that Carson doesn't trust him.

I too, don't hope the worst happens though.

One thing that's bugging me is that this downsizing or simplifying is focused on Barrow, who not only wants to stay in service but is versatile in his skills and experience and therefore a candidate for taking on extra duties in a smaller staff or otherwise evolving his position. Moseley has gained experience, but even if the family doesn't know Carson certainly does know that he has interests beyond his work. Andy is inexperienced, and even Mary and Tom know he wants to learn pig farming. It doesn't make sense.

The other thing I'm wondering about is why other options aren't being considered. Edith is independent, but if she spend more and more of her time in London she might need a servant or two, especially if Marigold eventually moves with her. Bertie likely doesn't come with a servant, so if they set up a household they will surely need at least some help. (And is that crowded apartment suitable, or would she take over the family's townhouse?) There's also Rosamund - did she not mention a few eps ago about breaking in yet another butler? Barrow might be better suited to her house anyone - in London, a little less stuck in the old ways and ideas. And Isabel - proudly does not want help (although surely she's not doing all the cleaning and laundering herself?) but surely does not want to see long time employees put out on the street. And they have a librarian on staff?? That's bizarre because the Earl doesn't even have a secretary.

I agree, Edith needs Thomas. In my mind, her and Marigold should take Thomas to London and live in her flat, and get married to the Agent (name eludes me). Then when his cousin comes to visit (you know, the one that paints 'the young men of Tangier', which I read as him being probably gay) he and Thomas can have a loving relationship.

I agree with your interpretation of the theme of the series, as well.

agree too.

But in general I'd agree that neither plotting nor continuity is a strong point of this series.

Watch for the drama, the oneliners, Violet and headbands.

 

[skatingfan5]

I agree, Edith needs Thomas. In my mind, her and Marigold should take Thomas to London and live in her flat, and get married to the Agent (name eludes me). Then when his cousin comes to visit (you know, the one that paints 'the young men of Tangier', which I read as him being probably gay) he and Thomas can have a loving relationship.

Thanks to my faulty PBS station reception, I managed to entirely miss this reference to Bertie's cousin. Perhaps this cousin could hire Thomas as his valet/secretary/whatever and they could have that as a cover for whatever relationship developed between them. Not wanting a tragic end for Thomas, he really has been trying so hard to change his ways (even if he can't help some churlish snarks from time to time, not to mention trying to embarrass Gwen just a few episodes ago).

 

[Artistic Skaters]

He did want to embarrass Gwen, but it could also be considered loyalty to the family. Mary was very put off (once it was brought to her attention) that Gwen hadn't been forthcoming regarding her former employment status, as were others, especially since Mary had asked her if they had met before. It took Gwen's stories about Sybil to bring them around again.

Since Thomas is the only gay character on the show, I also hope they will not do him in & come up with a more hopeful ending for him like the options Jenny suggested. He could even go live at the farm with his new friend & Daisy's father-in-law if nothing else. Daisy doesn't want to live there & Mrs. Patmore will be moving her new place. He may have to live a life of romantic solitude but he would have his friend & the old man so he would no longer be so lonely & pine for friends/family. He will still be on the grounds when the users at the big house need him to win the ball games at the festivals for them, & he can get a dog to make up for the time he kidnapped Isis. He can start a new nursery school with Moseley as his community service when he's not helping to tend the pigs. The end.

 

[maatTheViking]

I just can't see Mr. Barrow tending to the pigs...

 

[Artistic Skaters]

OK, he'll watch his new friend tend the pigs & then serve the tea. You're right, he wouldn't want to get muddy.

 

[my little pony]

if evillebutler.com can find love, my heart will grow 3 sizes that day

 

[Allskate]

One thing that's bugging me is that this downsizing or simplifying is focused on Barrow, who not only wants to stay in service but is versatile in his skills and experience and therefore a candidate for taking on extra duties in a smaller staff or otherwise evolving his position. Moseley has gained experience, but even if the family doesn't know Carson certainly does know that he has interests beyond his work. Andy is inexperienced, and even Mary and Tom know he wants to learn pig farming. It doesn't make sense.

Barrow doesn't want Andy's job. And they have reduced staff. Anna also mentioned in one episode that they now had maids coming from the village to work, which is another change that probably reduced costs. They have loyalty to Bates. And, frankly, Barrow has been a jerk. To me, one of the less believable parts of the series is that Barrow hasn't been fired before -- and not simply because he is gay.

Maybe Daisy can take off to London, Mrs. P can marry Mason and quit her job, and Barrow can take over all the cooking. It's pretty apparent that Hughes can't do the cooking. Or, after Hughes finally has had enough of Carson's nonsense, she can impose crippling harm on him and Barrow can take over for Carson.

 

[Coco]

Very cute moment at the BAFTAs between Dame Maggie Smith and Leo DiCaprio.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...e-Smith-81-HUGE-kiss-BAFTA-2016-ceremony.html

 

[Coco]

Good episode tonight! Loved the scene with the Dowager and Miss Cruikshank.

 

[my little pony]

Good episode tonight! Loved the seen with the Dowager and Miss Cruikshank.

yes, miss cruikshank was no match for her

everyone is so mean to evil butler, even if only by accident!

 

[Coco]

I really don't see this ending well for evilbutler.

 

[my little pony]

it has to or I've wasted like 6 years that i can't get back

now that they've taken my hero carson and made him a pain in the ass, all my eggs are in evilbutlers basket

 

[Coco]

Stock up on booze, then.

 

[my little pony]

no one even wants pointy faced edith as a sacrificial trade

 

[skategal]

Mary should stay single and take lovers. I'm so glad she dumped Henry. I can't stand him.

 

[my little pony]

Mary should stay single and take lovers.

yes

i dont see any special chemistry between them and his love for turning left all afternoon with his friends just made me eye rolly. i was glad when the car crashed so they could go home.

although i am sorry for tom who desperately needs a friend.