Canadian Pairs 2018/2019 Season News and Updates

[puglover]

Absolutely agree, so many favorites not competing this year. One of my greatest joys in skating though has been discovering younger skaters before they have made their mark and following their progression to the big time. There are 9 junior pairs. This year is the first time I have watched much of the JGPs or the lower levels of Challenge. It has been exciting. I especially have liked the team of Patricia Andrew/Paxton Fletcher. If all goes well, I predict she is a star in the making.

 

[Dobre]

Could you clarify?

Many of the top pair skaters are older and have either been through or are working on their third quadrennium in seniors, if not more.

 

[chantilly]

Many of the top pair skaters are older and have either been through or are working on their third quadrennium in seniors, if not more.

True. It’s just every quadrennial there’s usually a ramping up technically with skaters. T and M and J and C are battling for the top of the podium so far. We also have two Chinese teams and several Russian teams chomping at the bit. But anything could happen. I would have never guessed that Savchenko could come back and win it all at this point in the last quadrennial.

 

[Rock2]

I was one of Charlie’s defenders in his choice to leave a partnership he wasn’t invested in. My point is that in leaving Julianne, it seems he left behind the best prospect in pairs skating.

As for technical, aren’t one of the Russian teams doing flips. And some teams are attempting loops. And I feel pretty confident that we may see some quad twists/ quad throw attempts coming up between Russian T and M and French J and C, not to mention Sui and Han.

As for Lubov, she couldn’t consistently land a toe, so my argument still stands. Despite the new rules, if you can’t do a toe you’ll not likely hit top ten.

I like Julianne a ton but I don't consider her an elite prospect in pairs skating. Takes so much more than having a good repertoire of sbs jumps that you can land. She has a challenging body type to work with, making lifts and twists a challenge. The fact that they have done a 3Tw4 is incredible to me and I think that had more to do with Charlie than her. Also, partially due to her concussions her fitness level never got to the elite status needed to maximize their elements and minimize the wear and tear on her partner. I'm not saying this is why they broke up but I'm fairly confident in saying it was a factor.

All the above is why I keep advocating Deschamps as her partner. He is Just. So. Strong. And stable....and has done amazing work with partners who are equally as challenging if not more than Julianne. (I don't care if he has a current partner, so pointing that out won't change my perspective).

Net net I think Charlie is much easier to repartner than Julianne. Once you see her with someone else you might appreciate more what Charlie brought to the table.

I think you're overvaluing sbs jumps in this new system. All the jumps are worth about the same now so it matters not if someone's doing a 3F or 3S. They're almost the same. And those bigger jumps actually end up working against you if you can't do them with strong GoE.

Julianne's jumps and throws were fairly small such that under the new system I don't see more than a +3 possible with Charlie. Lubov can bring the +5s on throws and in lifts. A massive twist is possible if they can merge techniques. I look at that element as the difference maker because to become elite in pairs above all you need an excellent twist. That element plays the biggest role in slotting you IMHO.

The other thing I'm watching out for is speed. I suspect these two might end up literally flying around the rink. Twists and speed is a serious winning formula in pairs and I'm expecting a major upgrade over S/B. Julianne improved her SS a lot over time but Lubov I think can show better.

So people can complain all they want about Lubov's sbs jumps but if you take a complete and holistic view of the new scoring system, and truly audit all the elements and PCS, on paper I see a partnership with Lubov having much (much) more scoring potential. And I have mixed feelings in acknowledging this as I'm a huge S/B fan nonetheless. Their chemistry was infectious as a couple.

 

[Rock2]

Pairs will rebuild quickly.

Charlie will be back at nationals next year with likely Lubov, while Julianne is expected to repartner to compete at nationals next year based on her latest comments.

If B/B continue their trajectory we'll quite quickly be bemoaning the fact that we have elite pairs that have to stay home from world's as we don't have enough slots. Not worried.

 

[DFO]

Absolutely agree, so many favorites not competing this year. One of my greatest joys in skating though has been discovering younger skaters before they have made their mark and following their progression to the big time. There are 9 junior pairs. This year is the first time I have watched much of the JGPs or the lower levels of Challenge. It has been exciting. I especially have liked the team of Patricia Andrew/Paxton Fletcher. If all goes well, I predict she is a star in the making.

I wasn't a fan of Fletcher while they were in Novice, but he made huge progress and I like them now. I'm also watching McIntosh/Toste who won juvenile pairs, pre-novice pairs then novice pairs in the last 3 years. Their Young ages made them really promising... if they grew in the "right" way (height, weight). Like somebody else in this forum already stated, lower levels are frustrating to Watch because you never know if the promising kids will remain. Injuries, sudden body changes (girl becoming too tall or gain weight) or lack of funds from the parents are sometimes moving nice pairs out. But McIntosh/Toste are still there. I think they will do great in future ISU JGP.

 

[barbarafan]

I wasn't a fan of Fletcher while they were in Novice, but he made huge progress and I like them now. I'm also watching McIntosh/Toste who won juvenile pairs, pre-novice pairs then novice pairs in the last 3 years. Their Young ages made them really promising... if they grew in the "right" way (height, weight). Like somebody else in this forum already stated, lower levels are frustrating to Watch because you never know if the promising kids will remain. Injuries, sudden body changes (girl becoming too tall or gain weight) or lack of funds from the parents are sometimes moving nice pairs out. But McIntosh/Toste are still there. I think they will do great in future ISU JGP.

I like these 2 pairs as well but really have my heart set on Marine Pouliot. She has such star quality. Hopefully she will be able to find another partner and conquer those triples.

 

[barbarafan]

Pairs will rebuild quickly.

Charlie will be back at nationals next year with likely Lubov, while Julianne is expected to repartner to compete at nationals next year based on her latest comments.

If B/B continue their trajectory we'll quite quickly be bemoaning the fact that we have elite pairs that have to stay home from world's as we don't have enough slots. Not worried.

Food for thought.

 

[Sk8mom123]

I like these 2 pairs as well but really have my heart set on Marine Pouliot. She has such star quality. Hopefully she will be able to find another partner and conquer those triples.

I like these two young pairs as well. Also think Choinard has great potential. I follow her on Instagram and she has some awesome jumps. I think her nerves improved this season and she grew as a performer but I think maybe she’s out grown Ostiguy. She still has 3 years jr eligibility. I also think others have potential Daleman and his new partner are improving. I like watching all the jr teams. It’s fun to imagine how they will all progress.

 

[Sk8mom123]

I wasn't a fan of Fletcher while they were in Novice, but he made huge progress and I like them now. I'm also watching McIntosh/Toste who won juvenile pairs, pre-novice pairs then novice pairs in the last 3 years. Their Young ages made them really promising... if they grew in the "right" way (height, weight). Like somebody else in this forum already stated, lower levels are frustrating to Watch because you never know if the promising kids will remain. Injuries, sudden body changes (girl becoming too tall or gain weight) or lack of funds from the parents are sometimes moving nice pairs out. But McIntosh/Toste are still there. I think they will do great in future ISU JGP.

I actually don’t find it frustrating jr is a great time to learn and I enjoy watching all of the skaters as they grow and switch partners etc. I think it’s exciting. Not many senior pair teams have been together their whole journey. All those experiences let the ones with longevity rise up.

 

[Vase]

I like these 2 pairs as well but really have my heart set on Marine Pouliot. She has such star quality. Hopefully she will be able to find another partner and conquer those triples.

I heard Marine has moved on to acting?! She was a performer.

I think the growth of these young pair girls will come this upcoming season, just going by age. And then skating two disciplines, we’ll see how they can keep a balance.

 

[Japanfan]

Feels so empty! I miss all my faves!

It does feel strange. I don't recall the Canadian field ever being so weak, in the almost 20 years I've watched skating.

But surprises are possible. When Megan Duhamel was skating singles early in her career, who ever predicted that one day she'd be a world champion in Pairs?

 

[dramagrrl]

Pairs will rebuild quickly.

Charlie will be back at nationals next year with likely Lubov, while Julianne is expected to repartner to compete at nationals next year based on her latest comments.

If B/B continue their trajectory we'll quite quickly be bemoaning the fact that we have elite pairs that have to stay home from world's as we don't have enough slots. Not worried.

Forgive me for being pessimistic, but I am not as hopeful. If Charlie ends up skating with Lubov, my prediction is that the same jump troubles will plague her and that they either won't last long or will not make a huge impact. Julianne finding a partner that is of equal calibre to her and staying healthy enough to be able to put in the hard work to make it in a new partnership is something I greatly hope for, but odds are not great. Brasseur/Bardei have already been plagued with injury issues and who knows if he'll get his SBS jumps together for them to progress to their potential. Most of the junior teams that have potential are too young (or at least have girls that are too young) to compete as seniors for a few years, at least internationally. Maybe I'll be wrong and B&B will rise quickly or a new partnership will make a big impact fast, but if I was putting money on it, I'd say that this is going to be a weak quad for Canadian pairs.

In terms of Lubov's potential with Charlie or anyone else (I think it'll be pretty funny if they don't end up skating together after all this conjecture), I think she's lovely, but I also think that the sky-high thoughts about her potential are just that - potential that might be somewhere in an ideal world, but will likely never come to fruition. People said many of the same things about her potential in her partnership with Dylan, but none of it really came together all at once. Her jump problems are not just "mental" as some posters claim; there are definite technique issues and even in the few instances she stood jumps up, there were often UR calls. She was never super-consistent on throws, either, although I will say her throws were beautiful when she landed them. As other teams up the technical ante, I don't see her ever having the jumping skills to land anything harder than a SBS 3T or 3S, and I doubt that quad throws would be successful for her either. Even racking up GOE on lifts, etc. would not get a team medals if they could rarely land SBS jumps and were outdone in difficulty by many other teams who were able to gain consistency with harder technical elements.

There is also the issue that no one seems to bring up that she is a recovering anorexic. (Eating disorders, being mental health conditions, are never considered "cured"; one is always in recovery.) Obviously, a huge part of that problem was the pressure and abuse she received from her partner (and I believe coach as well?) in Russia, but people who suffer from EDs are also known to have issues with both pressure and control. Going back to dealing with high pressure competition, especially with a partner who is publicly making it loud and clear that he is looking for high results fast and has a former partner who has said to the media that he pressured her about weight issues ("Je sais que je n’étais pas dans la plus grande forme de ma vie. J’y pensais beaucoup. Et Charlie aussi. Il me l’a dit" said Julianne in the recent Radio Canada interview) does not seem to be an ideal situation for a woman who had serious ED issues in the past. Top that all off with the fact that she is 27 years old, which is not young for a female pairs skater (especially one starting over with a new partner after not competing or training for competition for over a year), and, well... again, maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, and we don't even know if she actually is returning to competition, but I don't have particularly high hopes.

If the partnership ends up being real and they manage to overcome all the issues I wrote about above, all the more power to them! I would be less pleased if all the problems remained and they somehow managed to GOE their way to medals with the same level of inconsistency in SBS jumps and no real difficulty improvements in other areas.

 

[Alvyne]

There is also the issue that no one seems to bring up that she is a recovering anorexic. (Eating disorders, being mental health conditions, are never considered "cured"; one is always in recovery.) Obviously, a huge part of that problem was the pressure and abuse she received from her partner (and I believe coach as well?) in Russia, but people who suffer from EDs are also known to have issues with both pressure and control. Going back to dealing with high pressure competition, especially with a partner who is publicly making it loud and clear that he is looking for high results fast and has a former partner who has said to the media that he pressured her about weight issues ("Je sais que je n’étais pas dans la plus grande forme de ma vie. J’y pensais beaucoup. Et Charlie aussi. Il me l’a dit" said Julianne in the recent Radio Canada interview) does not seem to be an ideal situation for a woman who had serious ED issues in the past. Top that all off with the fact that she is 27 years old, which is not young for a female pairs skater (especially one starting over with a new partner after not competing or training for competition for over a year), and, well... again, maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, and we don't even know if she actually is returning to competition, but I don't have particularly high hopes.

Julianne never said Charlie pressured her about weight issues. The highlighted sentence is about physical conditioning not weight (être en forme = being in shape, not being overweight or too heavy).

 

[Erin]

It does feel strange. I don't recall the Canadian field ever being so weak, in the almost 20 years I've watched skating.

But surprises are possible. When Megan Duhamel was skating singles early in her career, who ever predicted that one day she'd be a world champion in Pairs?

I don’t know that we predicted she would be a world champion, but @Catherine M and I both put her on our list of “potential pairs skaters” at 2004 Canadians (although we said she needed to become more tiffed to switch to pairs). So we certainly weren’t surprised when she showed up with Ryan Arnold next year.

 

[barbarafan]

I like these two young pairs as well. Also think Choinard has great potential. I follow her on Instagram and she has some awesome jumps. I think her nerves improved this season and she grew as a performer but I think maybe she’s out grown Ostiguy. She still has 3 years jr eligibility. I also think others have potential Daleman and his new partner are improving. I like watching all the jr teams. It’s fun to imagine how they will all progress.

She is good and has gotten taller. She still is super slim. He is very solid though and secure so it may be ok. I had forgotten about Daleman (this as I was trying to find something with new partnership) and finally saw a vid of them at sectionals. He is really good and she seems like she can really develop into a good pairs girl. I liked them a lot.

 

[Rock2]

I think the landscape in national pairs can change quickly. A pair can come together and POOF it just works. I do recognize it can work the other way where two good talents fail as a pair. No formula; you just cross your fingers that the whole ends up being greater than the sum of the parts, as it were.

Sometimes a team just arrives and you're like holy crap (Sale/Pelletier SC 1998). Sometimes you see some pairs who earlier on don't give you a ton of hope for world medals in the quad but then they steadily grow and become elite (D/R, MT/M version 1).

One early regret for me is B/B not being able to skate a full season this year. I was hoping they could get enough experience to set some fairly aggressive goals for 2020. Shame their progress has been slowed by injuries. Not expecting much at nationals but their time will come.

So when I look at the sum total of Canadian pairs talent out there as individuals at least, I see more than enough there to mix and match into 3-4 teams who are at the very least top 8 worthy at worlds in this quad. We'll see how the development goes and how high they can get.

 

[dramagrrl]

Julianne never said Charlie pressured her about weight issues. The highlighted sentence is about physical conditioning not weight (être en forme = being in shape, not being overweight or too heavy).

If you read the article and see what she said directly before that, my interpretation is that weight was a big part of what she meant when she was talking about being in shape, in the same way that I think a lot of the talk about her “fitness” in this thread is as well. Just my opinion.

 

[Sk8mom123]

I think the landscape in national pairs can change quickly. A pair can come together and POOF it just works. I do recognize it can work the other way where two good talents fail as a pair. No formula; you just cross your fingers that the whole ends up being greater than the sum of the parts, as it were.

Sometimes a team just arrives and you're like holy crap (Sale/Pelletier SC 1998). Sometimes you see some pairs who earlier on don't give you a ton of hope for world medals in the quad but then they steadily grow and become elite (D/R, MT/M version 1).

One early regret for me is B/B not being able to skate a full season this year. I was hoping they could get enough experience to set some fairly aggressive goals for 2020. Shame their progress has been slowed by injuries. Not expecting much at nationals but their time will come.

So when I look at the sum total of Canadian pairs talent out there as individuals at least, I see more than enough there to mix and match into 3-4 teams who are at the very least top 8 worthy at worlds in this quad. We'll see how the development goes and how high they can get.

So agree with this post. Lots of talent and looking forward to his the mix match and future developments.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

If you read the article and see what she said directly before that, my interpretation is that weight was a big part of what she meant when she was talking about being in shape, in the same way that I think a lot of the talk about her “fitness” in this thread is as well. Just my opinion.

I don’t agree with you. It seems clear she was talking about not being in top shape/undertrained due to the lack of training. She even says they had real training sessions on Olympic ice and that they were surprised how well they had perrformed under these circumstances. All that 8ntense train8ng had taken a tollon them and that they had a hard time finding the energy to go back to training adequately in the summer.

 

[Mad for Skating]

It does feel strange. I don't recall the Canadian field ever being so weak, in the almost 20 years I've watched skating.

But surprises are possible. When Megan Duhamel was skating singles early in her career, who ever predicted that one day she'd be a world champion in Pairs?

You’re so right! I think Canadian Pairs will rebuild - Walsh and Michaud are promising! - but in the meantime there will be a little lull. Then in a few years we’ll have 20 amazing pairs in the field lol

And I don’t think anyone would’ve seen it coming that Meagan would end up a pairs world champ - this sport is truly unpredictable and that’s why I love it.

 

[dramagrrl]

I don’t agree with you. It seems clear she was talking about not being in top shape/undertrained due to the lack of training. She even says they had real training sessions on Olympic ice and that they were surprised how well they had perrformed under these circumstances. All that 8ntense train8ng had taken a tollon them and that they had a hard time finding the energy to go back to training adequately in the summer.

Agree to disagree. Julianne clearly said right after the part I quoted that it was very difficult to be a woman in this sport because you always have to look good, keep your weight down, be made up when you are in public, etc. She went on to say that one cannot perform miracles when you are injured and aren't training optimally, and then said her relationship with her body hasn't always been positive and that one can be intimidated when they see people with seemingly ideal body types in the sport, but she was able to keep it in perspective over the years. To me, she was obviously trying to be judicious, but it does sound like she felt pressure about her size/weight and it wasn't just internal.

 

[aftershocks]

I loved Lubov's drama and fierceness in the Tango short she did...She can do characters very well...I would like to see Shae LYn Bourne do something with them. Also Lance Vipond or Rohen Ward.

But nothing has been confirmed as yet regarding a partnership for Charlie & Luba, has it?

It's crazy to think that the U.S, with all of its struggles in pairs, has at least double the number of teams competing in the senior level at nationals this year, than Canada.

Canada has experienced some retirements, and apparently pairs is attracting more teams right now in the U.S. Things always move in cycles, so there shouldn't be over-expectations/ under-expectations for either U.S. or Canadian pairs, nor the knee-jerk looking down on U.S. pairs that constantly ensues. We are only in the first year of the new Olympic cycle.

Case in point: At 2010 Olympics, Evora/Ladwig outskated Canadian pairs (even the highly rated Dube/Davison) but were still dissed in the marks in comparison, and they shouldn't have been. E/L did make top ten, but their placement should have been higher. In terms of their spectacular lifts, E/L are still one of the best in that category.

... this sport is truly unpredictable and that’s why I love it.

Exactly.


Re the possibility of Luba and Charlie, we don't know what's going to happen. Speculating and conversing can be fun and anticipatory, but we don't know, until we find out. Plus, with all due respect @dramagrrl, your posts seem so overly pessimistic, but to each their own. As far as the whole 'weight' issue and suggesting that Charlie treated Julianne in a negative manner for that reason is unfounded speculation. Julianne only voiced being upset about Charlie's lack of communication. Her discussion about weight weighing unfairly on females in the sport of figure skating was not specifically or clearly directed at Charlie, no matter anyone who might assume Julianne is directing that aspect of her commentary at Charlie.

 

[Alvyne]

Charlie was just on the radio (Ici Radio Canada Première) and said he will announce the name of his new partner over the winter. The plan is to start competing in September.

 

[barbarafan]

But nothing has been confirmed as yet regarding a partnership for Charlie & Luba, has it?

no names of new partner released. I did check Luba's show schedule and in this spring there are 2 x 2week breaks in between shows (she sometimes goes back to Toronto during her breaks)and they could have planned to do choreo during that period and learn it. That would the only way I could see them managing. I guess we just have to wait.

 

[dramagrrl]

Plus, with all due respect @dramagrrl, your posts seem so overly pessimistic, but to each their own. As far as the whole 'weight' issue and suggesting that Charlie treated Julianne in a negative manner for that reason is unfounded speculation.

To each their own, but I could just as easily say many posts in this thread are (very) overly optimistic, and almost everything in this thread that has been opined about the future of Canadian pairs is unfounded speculation. Shrug.

 

[pointbleu]

Choinard and Ostiguy article

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Agree to disagree. Julianne clearly said right after the part I quoted that it was very difficult to be a woman in this sport because you always have to look good, keep your weight down, be made up when you are in public, etc. She went on to say that one cannot perform miracles when you are injured and aren't training optimally, and then said her relationship with her body hasn't always been positive and that one can be intimidated when they see people with seemingly ideal body types in the sport, but she was able to keep it in perspective over the years. To me, she was obviously trying to be judicious, but it does sound like she felt pressure about her size/weight and it wasn't just internal.

Sometimes there are few things we miss when one's mother language is not ours...

 

[DaveRocks]

But nothing has been confirmed as yet regarding a partnership for Charlie & Luba, has it?

There hasn't been an official statement, but Lubov is indeed Charlie's new partner.

 

[Wyliefan]

When do we get an official announcement??