Canadian Pairs 2018/2019 Season News and Updates

Rock2

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,395
Ratings
3,941
She also references her weight and the prevelance of eating disorders in the sport, in a way that insinuates that her physique was an issue for the team.
Yes, Meagan has admitted publicly that she had been fat shamed a bit (not her words) in her career. But she will also go on to say it's not just about physique -- it's about being healthy and in shape. When she focused there, her streamlined body came with it.

Meagan has always been on the muscular side and yes her body was thicker before she became a vegan. Because of her technique she's not as easy of a lift than, say, Paige Lawrence who one judge told me could practically put a lift up by herself.

So being lighter AND stronger through her vegan diet and improved training habits made her a better partner and also helped with injury prevention (both her and Eric, as the man is at risk as well if the girl isn't in great shape...something that was probably not lost on Charlie but I digress). Really helped them master the harder lifts and throws at the later stages of their careers.
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,901
Ratings
12,912
On Seguin's essay, "The Break." Cross-posting from Cain/LeDuc thread about Ash's fall on a lift at Golden Spin...

"I remember a competition in November 2017 in Moscow. My vision was blurry. I had trouble reading the dosage on my medication pot. Once on the rink, with the lights and white ice, I was dizzy and aching. I do not know how I managed to skate, but I did it."

That’s horrifying. I can’t read the rest of [Seguin's comments] but I’m truly glad she’s retired.
If you read the rest of Julianne Seguin's comments, she did not say she retired. She took a break to reassess, and she has decided to come back slowly and start training again to see if she can get back in shape to be the best she can be. She speaks of it as being a test for herself, and that she will make a decision sometime early next year. Unless I'm mistaken and she's decided to call it quits after she wrote this essay.

Of course, the next hurdle would be trying to find a partner. Julianne admits it will be hard to find someone of Charlie's caliber, but she suggests there are some candidates worth trying out with.
 
Last edited:

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,901
Ratings
12,912
(the textbook Montreal Mush stuff)
Well......let's just say if he and KMT got together one of their biggest problems would be fighting over mirrors.
:COP: :watch:

Sale/Pelletier is an example of this too which I'm sure is in the back of every Canadian pair skater's mind.
I don't think anyone was considering Sale to be exceptional before she paired up with Pelletier.
As others have already posted Jamie Sale possessed many admirable qualities. She had a gorgeous back on her throw landings, and she was generally very solid as a rock too in landing her throws. Although she had some issues on sbs jumps occasionally, Jamie was generally a very sassy, confident skater/performer.

It is interesting how when Sale/Pelletier came together, everything clicked in a big way. But I agree with earlier comments that their situation was different from the reference to Sav/Mas and Volo/Trankov. S/P just happened to find each other when they did, and they weren't that old either. The timing was just how it was, and the Love Story program was simply magic with a perfect hook/concept that created buzz. And they had the goods to back up the buzz.

The other thing about S/P is they had an outstanding pro career, particularly in the era of waning pro opportunities. They have so many hot, sexy, exciting show programs that I delight in watching to this day. :swoon:

Lubov, despite her many abilities that Julianne didn’t have, lacks a vital piece of skill and that is jumping. In my view, Charlie isn’t going to get where he wants with Lubov either because of this. I don’t really see this as a win for either of them.
I agree with many of your thoughts, and indeed Lubov has to get help overcoming the jumping snafus. However, your last two sentences remain to be proved. Your honest perceptions obviously, but we haven't seen them together yet. The proof is in the pudding.

Also, I think you're underselling Charlie a bit. Dylan was a great lifter who became an even better skater in order to "skate up" to Lubov. Charlie isn't a slouch lifting either. My complaint with he and Julianne was her lack of stretch and line. That's not going to be an issue with Lubov, and I think their chemistry/packaging has much more potential than either did with previous partners.
Yes, I think Charlie is a good partner with above average lifting skills. Julianne's comments also intimate that finding as good a partner as Charlie won't be easy. Once again, it will be interesting to see, if the pairing news is true, exactly how Lubov/Charlie might develop. The key is always in choosing the right music and choreo. I suppose if they are training with Bruno Marcotte, it will be Julie doing their choreo. And with the height difference, they may be able to create some spectacular lifts. Bruno Massot's height and muscle is what made Sav/Mas 3-twist and throws so explosive -- their 3-twist was especially eye-popping.
 
Last edited:

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
802
Ratings
2,593
:COP: :watch:
And with the height difference, they may be able to create some spectacular lifts. Bruno Massot's height and muscle is what made Sav/Mas 3-twist and throws so explosive -- their 3-twist was especially eye-popping.
Yes, Bruno being very strong helped the triple twist a lot. But from what I've read, a lot of doing a big twist depends on absolutely perfect timing between the two skaters so they can get the maximum power up into the element.

There's plenty of teams that you would think could do a huge twist ... say Meagan and Eric (big height difference, strong man) but they don't because the perfect technique isn't there. Even Dylan and Lubov (who had a massive size differential) didn't have one of those *wow* triple twists.
 

RoseRed

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,028
Ratings
1,849
Yes, Bruno being very strong helped the triple twist a lot. But from what I've read, a lot of doing a big twist depends on absolutely perfect timing between the two skaters so they can get the maximum power up into the element.

There's plenty of teams that you would think could do a huge twist ... say Meagan and Eric (big height difference, strong man) but they don't because the perfect technique isn't there. Even Dylan and Lubov (who had a massive size differential) didn't have one of those *wow* triple twists.
Meagan said that for them the big height difference made the twist weaker. Something about it being harder for Eric to get low enough under her to get a good push up. Lubov and Dylan did not have a massive size differential. It was 25 cm, which is totally normal in pairs (most of the successful senior pairs I've looked at had at least ~20 cm difference, many in the 30+ cm range, so 25 is medium at best for pairs). D/R had a 39 cm difference. S/M had 31 cm.
 

Skate Talker

Replaced the display under my name
Messages
7,021
Ratings
2,043
D/R had a 39 cm difference. S/M had 31 cm.
That's so interesting. I would expected the difference to be more similar for those 2 teams. I do recall Meaghan saying something about how the lifts were also something she really had to get used to with Eric because she was a foot higher up than with Craig Buntin so felt less secure at first.
 

starrynight

Well-Known Member
Messages
802
Ratings
2,593
Meagan said that for them the big height difference made the twist weaker. Something about it being harder for Eric to get low enough under her to get a good push up. Lubov and Dylan did not have a massive size differential. It was 25 cm, which is totally normal in pairs (most of the successful senior pairs I've looked at had at least ~20 cm difference, many in the 30+ cm range, so 25 is medium at best for pairs). D/R had a 39 cm difference. S/M had 31 cm.
For Lubov/Dylan I meant more of an overall size difference, rather than height. Lobov is a very petite lady and Dylan was a bit of a tank! :D

That's so interesting. I would expected the difference to be more similar for those 2 teams. I do recall Meaghan saying something about how the lifts were also something she really had to get used to with Eric because she was a foot higher up than with Craig Buntin so felt less secure at first.
I think in her book she said it was because she started locking into position too early, which would stop the momentum of the lift. With Eric it took longer to get to the top, so she had to learn to get into position later.
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,901
Ratings
12,912
... There's plenty of teams that you would think could do a huge twist ... say Meagan and Eric (big height difference, strong man) but they don't because the perfect technique isn't there. Even Dylan and Lubov (who had a massive size differential) didn't have one of those *wow* triple twists.
I agree except that I don't see Dylan and Lubov as having had a huge size differential. Certainly, Charlie is taller than Dylan. ETA: Okay, I see you clarified that you are talking more about bodily physique/ bone structure, than height difference. I'm just not sure how those varying physical aspects play into pairs partnerships. It's likely more about really having a great connection, and developing superb rhythm and timing, as well as mastering the skills and standing out from the crowd.

I did enjoy how much Dylan changed his overall approach in making a successful effort to match Lubov's lines and grace in a way that made him actually stand out for me more than he did when he was with Kirsten. IOW, my attention was more on Kirsten in that pairing. With Lubov and Dylan, they seemed to be a pair that had more of an emotional connection, and they really worked on developing matching lines. Meagan and Eric also worked on connecting physically and emotionally in ways that worked for them in spite of their huge height difference.
 
Last edited:

barbarafan

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,644
Ratings
3,877
I agree except that I don't see Dylan and Lubov as having had a huge size differential. Certainly, Charlie is taller than Dylan.
not sure about the height.....but cdn's have diff. technique...Lubov had a really high twist b4 with other partner...Russian technique...but I/M blended their technique for the twist so better than most cdns. but not near the Russians. Charlie & Julianne went to Lyndon Johnson to improve their twist and throws so they were pretty good. Will be interesting to see who Charlie ends up with and what happens to his twist.
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,901
Ratings
12,912
^^ Yep that's interesting isn't it. The varying techniques that make switching partners sometimes difficult. I really think that's part of what happened to Castelli/Tran. They had different jump techniques. Plus, although they didn't talk about it, Marissa once intimated in an IceTalk interview that it was harder than she anticipated to adjust to a different partner than Simon Shnapir. Although Marissa and Simon did not get along well personality-wise, they'd stuck it out for so long together that they got used to skating with each other, like pulling on a comfortable old pair of shoes I suppose. Maybe switching partners is akin to trying on a sparkly new hot pair of stunning Manolo Blahniks you feel special in, but after walking a mile in them, they begin to feel tight and cause blisters which require a lot of nurturing to fully heal. Or another analogy: breaking in a new pair of ballet pointe shoes in order to soar! :D

Mervin is an excellent partner, and I'm sure Marissa and Mervin felt something special together (they were so smooth and sublime stylistically, and they had great speed and wonderful edges). Unfortunately, they never quite got over the hurdle of working out different jump techniques on their sbs elements. I also think Marissa struggled with adjusting to a different feel on the throws. Simon could just pick her up and throw her so high in the air. Therefore, making adjustments with Mervin in that regard seemed to have been an ongoing work-in-progress. As they struggled with their tech content never gaining consistency, their confidence as a team began to chip away. Marissa also needed to acquire a better arsenal of jumps than she had with Simon.
 
Last edited:

screech

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,059
Ratings
4,625
I did enjoy how much Dylan changed his overall approach in making a successful effort to match Lubov's lines and grace in a way that made him actually stand out for me more than he did when he was with Kirsten. IOW, my attention was more on Kirsten in that pairing.
I agree completely. When they first started together I was amazed by how elegant Dylan could look.
Regarding Kirsten, I miss the energy she had when she was with Dylan. I'm not fond of what Marcotte has been giving them for programs.
 

blue_idealist

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,520
Ratings
477
I agree except that I don't see Dylan and Lubov as having had a huge size differential. Certainly, Charlie is taller than Dylan. ETA: Okay, I see you clarified that you are talking more about bodily physique/ bone structure, than height difference. I'm just not sure how those varying physical aspects play into pairs partnerships. It's likely more about really having a great connection, and developing superb rhythm and timing, as well as mastering the skills and standing out from the crowd.
Dylan Moscovitch looks bigger on TV and on the ice than he did when I saw him up-close in person. I saw him and a few members of his family at one CDN Nats and was surprised to see just how slim they were (especially his sister, Kyra, who looked bigger than other pair ladies on ice when they skated together).
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,901
Ratings
12,912
^^ Pairs guys work out to beef up and often their bodies tend to be more muscular as a result. I think Timothy LeDuc has achieved a lot more muscularity than he had earlier in his career.
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,901
Ratings
12,912
I agree completely. When they first started together I was amazed by how elegant Dylan could look.
Regarding Kirsten, I miss the energy she had when she was with Dylan. I'm not fond of what Marcotte has been giving them for programs.
Yes, I agree that Kirsten had a different energy with Dylan. But I don't dislike the direction Julie Marcotte is taking them in. Kirsten is opening up and challenging herself to develop more nuance, stretch, line, and emotional connection with her partner. But yes, Kirsten & Michael are still in the process of finding what works for them on the ice to help them develop a signature style. I enjoyed both of their programs last season, especially the fp (which they used for two seasons). They were onto something special with that fp. Their programs this season are so far, not quite as successful, and so are still works-in-progress.

Part of the issue for Kirsten & Michael this season has been the fact that Kirsten was recovering from injury in the off-season, and they did not have enough preparation time before the start of the season. I think they have also struggled with the changed dynamics for Cdn pairs, and thus are trying to work on their confidence as the sudden de facto top Cdn team while also experiencing growing pains as part of the normal process developing pairs go through.

At NHK, Kirsten & Michael felt the pressure vs the Knierims coming out in the fp to perform their strengths so well to garner good scores. K&M ended up making uncharacteristic errors in the fp and couldn't hold onto their third position. That goes to show how much developing speed, power, and pop on difficult elements matters.
 
Messages
22
Ratings
27
That was a great read from Julianne, and I'm glad she's feeling better.

But I didn't know she had 3 concussions in a few months, had concussion symptoms that lasted 11 months (until December 2017), and skated at COR despite being extremely dizzy with blurred vision. That's disturbing, her health is more important than the Olympics. At this point I'm wondering if she should even be skating pairs at all. What happens if she gets another concussion?
I heard ( in my son's girlfriend translation though) that TAT and Trankov commented- or rather had spontaneous reaction while commenting certain competitions- that Charlie is not careful throwing Julianne. TAT said something like " you cannot throw in this way such a good girl, you have to take place her " the same Trankov. I. of course. am only a layperson in figure skating but it does not stop me pondering if Charlie- at least once!- has blamed himself for Julianne's multiply concussions... If no, I do not have respect for him at all.
As regards Luba- I wish it would not be her. Want to be wrong.
 

Mad for Skating

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,460
Ratings
2,182
I’ve always been fascinated by the height difference/twist quality ratio. Sui/Han for example don’t have a huge size difference, but they have a quad twist because she rotates so quickly in the air. I think technique is key. Of course, size helps.
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,901
Ratings
12,912
TAT and Trankov commented- or rather had spontaneous reaction while commenting certain competitions- that Charlie is not careful throwing Julianne. TAT said something like " you cannot throw in this way such a good girl, you have to take place her
Hmmm... Is it that he threw her too hard or too high or both. What exactly is the difference in doing it with care. I'm not sure I understand 'take place her' reference. What does that mean? Isn't it more a matter of the rhythm and timing between the two partners with the man not rushing the throw? Seemingly, there has to be a lot of trust as well as a lot of practice to develop the timing. Again, was Charlie thought by TAT and Trankov to be rushing his throws or launching Julianne too hard and high? Explanations are appreciated. If that's the case, Charlie must work on correcting this with any new partner.
 

barbarafan

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,644
Ratings
3,877
Hmmm... Is it that he threw her too hard or too high or both. What exactly is the difference in doing it with care. I'm not sure I understand 'take place her' reference. What does that mean? Isn't it more a matter of the rhythm and timing between the two partners with the man not rushing the throw? Seemingly, there has to be a lot of trust as well as a lot of practice to develop the timing. Again, was Charlie thought by TAT and Trankov to be rushing his throws or launching Julianne too hard and high? Explanations are appreciated. If that's the case, Charlie must work on correcting this with any new partner.
Trankov has said before that placement is very important. The girl has to land the jump on one foot, one blade. You have to throw high enough that she can complete her rotations,stop the rotation and line up her landing. If you throw long and wild the girl cannot land it properly and may be too close to the ground to even complete her rotations. Certainly there can be injuries if not done carefully and once the girl is launched there is nothing a pair guy can do to protect her. That is why Max said he would stick with the quad twist as opposed to a quad throw. That way you are under the girl and if you go down you can make sure you are the one hitting the ice....not the girl. I really started to like Max after that interview.
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,757
Ratings
11,706
I wouldn't want to skate with someone who had this many concussions and ongoing symptoms. even if they took a season off, even if her symptoms go away, the next fall could cause permanent damage or worse. that's a lot of responsibility for the partner. how could you feel confident adding harder lifts and throws? there is no way she will never fall again if she continues to skate. everyone commented on how stricken Timothy looked when Ashley fell. I dont understand why people think Charlie was wrong to end this partnership. I assume he was thinking of his future success but I would assume he was also not comfortable with the potential for Julianne to have permanent damage.

Problem is, when a man who skates pairs starts with a new partner, she too can have bad falls and concussions.

Unless you want to or can say that bad falls/concussions are the female partner's fault, a man skating pairs faces the same situation skating with a lady.
 

Mad for Skating

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,460
Ratings
2,182
Mervin and Julianne might be a great partnership... He had so much success with his first partner!!!
This might be promising! I would really like to see both of them back. But his side by sides were quite inconsistent.

And this chick can only fight for one release at a time. I ain’t getting involved in another mess like that! (Although the US Fed is usually decent so maybe...)
 

Rock2

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,395
Ratings
3,941
Mervin and Julianne might be a great partnership... He had so much success with his first partner!!!
Please no.

First off, Mervyn has always skated with more petite partners. I'm not sure he'd be able to handle Julianne.
Second, Mervyn is sort of reckless with his technique and is prone to accidents in training. Not what Julianne needs.

I still say Deschamps first, Boudreau-Audet second. One of Charlie or Julianne can train at Richard's rink, the other at Bruno's rink. Please and thanks.
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
13,901
Ratings
12,912
Please no.

First off, Mervyn has always skated with more petite partners. I'm not sure he'd be able to handle Julianne.
Second, Mervyn is sort of reckless with his technique and is prone to accidents in training. Not what Julianne needs.

I still say Deschamps first, Boudreau-Audet second. One of Charlie or Julianne can train at Richard's rink, the other at Bruno's rink. Please and thanks.
:lol: I think it's been established that Mervin represents the U.S. and he's currently training with his new partner, Olivia Serafini (a former New Yorker, who was training in California when she paired up with Mervin).

I'm not sure about your characterization of Mervin not being "able to handle Julianne." What??? Mervin is an excellent pairs partner. If Mervin was in fact available, it might more likely be that they wouldn't match well physically, stylistically or personality-wise. But that doesn't have to be the case either. BTW, Julianne is petite in terms of her height.

I like Deschamps and Boudreau-Audet. I agree with you that Deschamps seems like a very good match for Julianne. But right now Julianne hasn't seemed to come to a decision about what she wants to do. I certainly can understand how difficult it has been to deal with the grief and disappointment. Any loss or break-up of any kind can cause grief and a period of adjustment. It was apparently particularly difficult for Julianne because she said she didn't see it coming, or truly understand why it happened as it did.

In her essay, Julianne said she's trying to get back into the best shape she can at the moment, and that she will make a decision about her future early next year. Meanwhile, Deschamps may find another partner, eh. Is he looking and doing try-outs?
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 2, Guests: 3)

Top