U.S. Ice Dance 2023-24 news & updates

[jlai]

How much time does Michael realistically have? He's already 28 and will be 30 by the next Olympics. That's a long time to hang around just to struggle to make US#3.

And we have teams competing in their 30s

 

[AYS]

Green/Parsons had an off night but so did Chock/Bates and they were held up. Green/Parsons are evenly matched (ability-wise). As much as I admire the improvements that Bratti/Somerville have made, I cannot honestly say that they are evenly matched. Tanith herself boasted that she was so happy to work with a dancer as talented as Ian Somerville (but made no mention of Emily Bratti). If even their own coaches can see they are not evenly matched and are open about this with the Skating Press, then how on Earth are the rest of us supposed to not see it?

In an interview early in their partnership, B/S said that some of the coaches didn't favor them partnering (I don't know if this was still Wash or MIDA) but they strongly wanted to skate together because they have great rapport and love skating together. That counts for a lot and at the end of the day, the skaters hire the coaches (in the US anyway). Also, Emily has really upped her game since they first started together. You're not going to find many partners who will be up to Ian in skating skills.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Tanith herself boasted that she was so happy to work with a dancer as talented as Ian Somerville (but made no mention of Emily Bratti). If even their own coaches can see they are not evenly matched and are open about this with the Skating Press, then how on Earth are the rest of us supposed to not see it?

You are making a lot of assumptions about a 2 year old conversation between friends described out of context.

 

[thvu]

I don't think US Ice Dance is in chaos but I do think that the judging at these Nationals was chaos (and not just in Ice Dance).

Green/Parsons had an off night but so did Chock/Bates and they were held up. Green/Parsons are evenly matched (ability-wise). As much as I admire the improvements that Bratti/Somerville have made, I cannot honestly say that they are evenly matched. Tanith herself boasted that she was so happy to work with a dancer as talented as Ian Somerville (but made no mention of Emily Bratti). If even their own coaches can see they are not evenly matched and are open about this with the Skating Press, then how on Earth are the rest of us supposed to not see it?

I think if the coaches are aware that one partner is not up to the level of the other, it's their job to bring up the skillset of the weaker partner (as we saw at IAM in the partnership of Papadakis/Cizeron). If the Whites are not going to make that a priority then Ian Somerville should move over to solo dance.

If nothing else, the choice to send Bratti/Somerville to Worlds over Green/Parsons just proves what a load of B.S. the whole Body of Work guidelines actually are. After all, when was the last time Bratti/Somerville medalled at a Grand Prix, won Four Continents or placed sixth in their World's debut? When it came to Green/Parsons, BOW was thrown completely out of the window. As Johnny Weir pointed out in his commentary, Ice Dance (especially in the US) is just political.

Have you not been watching? Emily has made remarkable progress over the course of this season. If your opinion was based at all on observation, I don't see how you can question "if the Whites are not going to make" bringing up Emily to Ian's level "a priority".

 

[jlai]

Other than holding up the reigning world champ I also am not sure where the judging is chaos in the free dance. Perhaps they should have given more marks to F/d?

 

[layman]

It's the inconsistency of the judging that bothers me the most. Why do the US judges hold up one top team but throw the other under the bus? I have seen this too many times from the judging at Nationals...it's like the judges can only get behind one team (or one single competitor).

Realistically though, with Chock and Bates (by their own admission) on their way out, who is that going to leave to lead US Ice Dance? If Chock and Bates don't compete next season, that will mean that the next strongest team (in terms of a track record of wins in ISU competition) was just thrown under the bus at Nationals and will not represent the US at 2024 Worlds. I like Bratti/Somerville. I think they have improved a great deal but they need to win some medals on the Grand Prix, before I would seriously consider them for a World team. I doubt they will even place in the top ten at Worlds (where as Green/Parsons almost certainly would have). This is the kind of judging chaos that I was alluding too in my previous post...by throwing Green/Parsons under the bus now, the US Federation have hurt US Ice Dance going forward into next season and then the following Olympic season.

I think Hayawek and Baker must be kicking themselves now. If they had just skated their programs the way they skated them in Bryant Park (in exhibition), they would now be the new US Champions (the judges would not be able to deny them)! I hope they reconsider their (premature) retirement because US Ice Dance really needs them right now.

 

[Evgeniafan]

It's the inconsistency of the judging that bothers me the most. Why do the US judges hold up one top team but throw the other under the bus? I have seen this too many times from the judging at Nationals...it's like the judges can only get behind one team (or one single competitor).

Realistically though, with Chock and Bates (by their own admission) on their way out, who is that going to leave to lead US Ice Dance? If Chock and Bates don't compete next season, that will mean that the next strongest team (in terms of a track record of wins in ISU competition) was just thrown under the bus at Nationals and will not represent the US at 2024 Worlds. I like Bratti/Somerville. I think they have improved a great deal but they need to win some medals on the Grand Prix, before I would seriously consider them for a World team. I doubt they will even place in the top ten at Worlds (where as Green/Parsons almost certainly would have). This is the kind of judging chaos that I was alluding too in my previous post...by throwing Green/Parsons under the bus now, the US Federation have hurt US Ice Dance going forward into next season and then the following Olympic season.

I think Hayawek and Baker must be kicking themselves now. If they had just skated their programs the way they skated them in Bryant Park (in exhibition), they would now be the new US Champions (the judges would not be able to deny theI hope they reconsider their (premature) retirement because US Ice Dance really needs them right now.

Plus by body of work Green Parsons should go.

 

[Wyliefan]

H/B have to put their health first. Prepping for nationals would have meant much harder training than prepping for that video shoot.

 

[Rukia]

For real I think a team that is prioritizing themselves is going to have very few regrets about that choice

 

[carriecmu0503]

It's the inconsistency of the judging that bothers me the most. Why do the US judges hold up one top team but throw the other under the bus? I have seen this too many times from the judging at Nationals...it's like the judges can only get behind one team (or one single competitor).

Realistically though, with Chock and Bates (by their own admission) on their way out, who is that going to leave to lead US Ice Dance? If Chock and Bates don't compete next season, that will mean that the next strongest team (in terms of a track record of wins in ISU competition) was just thrown under the bus at Nationals and will not represent the US at 2024 Worlds. I like Bratti/Somerville. I think they have improved a great deal but they need to win some medals on the Grand Prix, before I would seriously consider them for a World team. I doubt they will even place in the top ten at Worlds (where as Green/Parsons almost certainly would have). This is the kind of judging chaos that I was alluding too in my previous post...by throwing Green/Parsons under the bus now, the US Federation have hurt US Ice Dance going forward into next season and then the following Olympic season.

I think Hayawek and Baker must be kicking themselves now. If they had just skated their programs the way they skated them in Bryant Park (in exhibition), they would now be the new US Champions (the judges would not be able to deny them)! I hope they reconsider their (premature) retirement because US Ice Dance really needs them right now.

Their health and well-being be darned, right?! These are human beings we’re talking about, not robots.

 

[jlai]

It's the inconsistency of the judging that bothers me the most. Why do the US judges hold up one top team but throw the other under the bus? I have seen this too many times from the judging at Nationals...it's like the judges can only get behind one team (or one single competitor).

Realistically though, with Chock and Bates (by their own admission) on their way out, who is that going to leave to lead US Ice Dance? If Chock and Bates don't compete next season, that will mean that the next strongest team (in terms of a track record of wins in ISU competition) was just thrown under the bus at Nationals and will not represent the US at 2024 Worlds. I like Bratti/Somerville. I think they have improved a great deal but they need to win some medals on the Grand Prix, before I would seriously consider them for a World team. I doubt they will even place in the top ten at Worlds (where as Green/Parsons almost certainly would have). This is the kind of judging chaos that I was alluding too in my previous post...by throwing Green/Parsons under the bus now, the US Federation have hurt US Ice Dance going forward into next season and then the following Olympic season.

I think Hayawek and Baker must be kicking themselves now. If they had just skated their programs the way they skated them in Bryant Park (in exhibition), they would now be the new US Champions (the judges would not be able to deny them)! I hope they reconsider their (premature) retirement because US Ice Dance really needs them right now.

I think we got it the other way round. It's Chock and Bates that should be dinged like they ding the other teams. We shouldn't gift another team because we gifted C/B.
I also don't think any other team is thrown under the bus. are we saying G/P should stay third or second?
And why are you assuming G/P will be the strongest team by next fall? Dancers improve or regress every day.

BTW, there is no way to make everyone happy. When skaters skate lights out at nationasl, fans are mad those lights out skates don't earn a trip to worlds (see the men's thread, Naumov). Yet when skaters with international medals don't get sent, fans got mad too because of (throwing your skaters with proven track record skater under the bus, like you said). Someone will be upset no matter what. Right now, B/S is rewarded for their improvement. It's a noticeable thing and not something political. Even if I don't agree, I see the reasoning that is based on some form of fact.

Ultimately, there is no way to be 100% 'fair' to everyone, if we even can agree on what "fair" means.

 

[SidelineSkater]

I think whoever USA #3 dance team is at worlds, is going to have a tough time cracking top 10. That said, USA #2 faces a stacked field for top 10.

We have our 6 GFP teams. C/B, G/F, G/P, F/G, FB/S, L/L. Then the Lithuanians, French 1, Czech 1, Finns, French 2. That's 11. On their best day, I think USA 2 (C/P) can slot above Czech 1, Finns, French 2. That's 9th. I don't think sending G/P over B/S is going to help get us better than 9th either. You also have the Georgians lurking out there too.

Edit to add - I think C/P are on the level with R/A and L/B, but those two teams are having great seasons and scoring about 6-10 points higher.

 

[dancing_on_ice]

We have our 6 GFP teams. C/B, G/F, G/P, F/G, FB/S, L/L.

At least 1 of the Canadian teams probably won't be at Worlds. Whether it's FBS because of the recent allegations or LL because of their recent injury.

 

[layman]

International Ice Dance judging is cut-throat. The judges seem hell-bent on pushing undeserving skaters like Davis/Smolkin onto the podium. To do that, they need to take out some of the top US skaters. To my great surprise, the US judges have done that for them at Nationals by throwing Green/Parsons under the bus. It's like a circular firing squad. We are taking out our own best skaters and making it that much easier for US Dancers to be shut out at the next Olympics.

 

[Karen-W]

I've said this elsewhere but can anyone tell me the last time USA #2 was lower than 6th at Worlds?

If, by some miracle, both FBSoer and LajLag make it to Worlds, one of them is getting dumped and will finish behind the trio of CarPon, ReedAmbru and LopBri and I'd bet it will be FBSoer.

 

[Rukia]

people have very short memories around here and have already forgotten that usfs somehow girlbossed pate/bye into beating lopareva/brissaud once this season so anything is possible if they decide they really want that 3rd spot

 

[Spikefan]

people have very short memories around here and have already forgotten that usfs somehow girlbossed pate/bye into beating lopareva/brissaud once this season so anything is possible if they decide they really want that 3rd spot

I thought that was a fever dream.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

I think in a normal year, USFS would have probably sent Green/Parsons to Worlds and Bratti/Sommerville to 4CCs. But since the 4CC team was already named, they flipped it. Harsh but not crazy. G/P haven't shown the same form this season as last and I suspect our spots for next year would rely on C/B and C/P regardless.

I've said this elsewhere but can anyone tell me the last time USA #2 was lower than 6th at Worlds?

2017, when C/B were 7th.

 

[skatingguy]

people have very short memories around here and have already forgotten that usfs somehow girlbossed pate/bye into beating lopareva/brissaud once this season so anything is possible if they decide they really want that 3rd spot

The combined power of @Rukia, the USFS, and IAM will guarantee a top ten finish for Carreira/Ponomarenko.

 

[Rukia]

The combined power of @Rukia, the USFS, and IAM will guarantee a top ten finish for Carreira/Ponomarenko.

by our powers combined we can aim high

 

[PRlady]

IIRC GrePar did not have a great season at Challengers or their GPs. They were third at CoC in a weak field and did badly at Lombardia. I haven’t heard one person say their FD is a knockout, while CPom had the best of their career. Personally I thought Z/K might knock them out of the medals this year but they didn’t have a great Nats either and Emilea still needs time and seasoning. (They’re my choice to go to Maddie and Scott in Ontario.)

 

[Rukia]

Personally I thought Z/K might knock them out of the medals this year but they didn’t have a great Nats either and Emilea still needs time and seasoning. (They’re my choice to go to Maddie and Scott in Ontario.)

lol I would be shocked if that happened for a lot of reasons

 

[PRlady]

lol I would be shocked if that happened for a lot of reasons

I know they’re not your favorite team and you see her tech deficiencies better than I do. But they have flash and charisma and he’s great. Why can’t we Americans have our very own Fear/Gibson?

 

[Rukia]

I know they’re not your favorite team and you see her tech deficiencies better than I do. But they have flash and charisma and he’s great. Why can’t we Americans have our very own Fear/Gibson?

believe it or not I actually like them and think they can do well, but I was talking about them ever going to Ontario haha

 

[Karen-W]

The combined power of @Rukia, the USFS, and IAM will guarantee a top ten finish for Carreira/Ponomarenko.

Hey, now, @Rukia is only the ringleader of the very vocal CarPon Crew we've established here at FSU, but let's not forget @Wyliefan, @litenkyckling, @ccpompom or anyone else!

I know they’re not your favorite team and you see her tech deficiencies better than I do. But they have flash and charisma and he’s great. Why can’t we Americans have our very own Fear/Gibson?

To hear some people on FSU tell it, I'd say ChoBat are the US equivalent to FearGib, lol.

 

[PRlady]

believe it or not I actually like them and think they can do well, but I was talking about them ever going to Ontario haha

so? Did Emilea flirt with Adria? Does Scott hate Vadym? Inquiring minds.

 

[skatingguy]

Hey, now, @Rukia is only the ringleader of the very vocal CarPon Crew we've established here at FSU, but let's not forget @Wyliefan, @litenkyckling, @ccpompom or anyone else!

@Rukia's powers have been demonstrated, and will not be questioned.

 

[Rukia]

Hey, now, @Rukia is only the ringleader of the very vocal CarPon Crew we've established here at FSU, but let's not forget @Wyliefan, @litenkyckling, @ccpompom or anyone else!

I'm just the most pathetic lol

 

[Rukia]

so? Did Emilea flirt with Adria? Does Scott hate Vadym? Inquiring minds.

I've just heard things that would suggest this would not be amenable to the team I feel we can safely call Ontario #1, and Scott seems very attached to who is already there so

 

[Karen-W]

I've just heard things that would suggest this would not be amenable to the team I feel we can safely call Ontario #1, and Scott seems very attached to who is already there so

Ah yes... There was a good reason why CarPon LEFT Igor...