U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

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She does? The only ones I see mentioned on her Instagram are something called MuscleTech, and a link in her bio to a women's bra company.
In any case, I would hope that her sponsors would understand the importance of her putting her mental health first.
So telling the media to go to hell is putting your mental health first no, that’s just showing out. If you’re putting your mental health first just quit talking to media - you don’t tell them off. You told her you think she should tell the media to go to hell. That’s counterproductive
 
The criticism against Abbott in 2014 began with his 7th place finish in the Team Event SP and his subsequent comments:

He was hardly the only skater to be skeptical about the Team Event, especially the first one, but the "all about me" tone, plus frustration with how well he skated at pre-Olympics Nationals followed by not-great Olympic SP's in the TE or individual event, left a sour taste in many fans' mouths. Especially after seeing the commitment and jubilation of the Russian team in Sochi, which really elevated the importance of the TE, if in retrospect.
Yeah at that point I kind of lost all respect for him.


The it’s all about me act was a bit much. He didn’t even act apologetic that he had let his teammates down. It was all about him and his Olympic experience - no one else mattered .
 
Yeah at that point I kind of lost all respect for him.


The it’s all about me act was a bit much. He didn’t even act apologetic that he had let his teammates down. It was all about him and his Olympic experience - no one else mattered
Having followed his skating for a few years, I found him to be rather apologetic in person. That said, I suspect he is not good with words, and say things that came off wrong. Wouldn't be the first or the last skater to do so.
 
Having followed his skating for a few years, I found him to be rather apologetic in person. That said, I suspect he is not good with words, and say things that came off wrong. Wouldn't be the first or the last skater to do so.
I think he wanted to come across as 'I have to move on, I can't dwell on this and I have to stay positive' and what came out was basically IDGAF about the team competition, who cares? Of course that's my interpretation, but we all know 99% of interviews in figure skating are these proper answers and I think his proper answer probably just didn't convey the meaning that was intended.
 
The criticism against Abbott in 2014 began with his 7th place finish in the Team Event SP and his subsequent comments:

He was hardly the only skater to be skeptical about the Team Event, especially the first one, but the "all about me" tone, plus frustration with how well he skated at pre-Olympics Nationals followed by not-great Olympic SP's in the TE or individual event, left a sour taste in many fans' mouths. Especially after seeing the commitment and jubilation of the Russian team in Sochi, which really elevated the importance of the TE, if in retrospect.
Does anybody really think Jeremy Abbott did not truly care about the team event? Everybody, including Jeremy, knew that was his best chance at an Olympic medal. The competition in the men's event was so strong that unless Jeremy skated lights out in both programs in the individual event, he was not likely to medal without help from other skaters. Ultimately, the event was not well skated, but who was to know that at the start of the event? His best chance to medal as an individual was in 2010. I think he put so much pressure on himself to do well in the team event that he crumbled. Ironically, had he really not cared at all, he probably would have skated great!
 
I never liked Jeremy after he made all those obnoxious faces in one year at nationals in the kiss and cry 🤣🤣
 
And yet, Karen is the one who got the US ladies the opportunity to have 3 Olympic slots. 🤷‍♂️
If Karen is named to the 2022 team as well, she will have been the top contributor for the 3rd spot at the previous Worlds for 2 times in a row (2017 and 2021 Worlds). [although due to rule change, it was Alysa who actually crystalized that 3rd spot, at Nebelhorn.]
 
So telling the media to go to hell is putting your mental health first no, that’s just showing out. If you’re putting your mental health first just quit talking to media - you don’t tell them off. You told her you think she should tell the media to go to hell. That’s counterproductive
I was just being hyperbolic, I didn't really mean she should literally SAY that. :lol:
 
Time to stop boo-hooing "three Russian ladies at each GP" and time to start figuring out how to compete with them. Promoting the same workmanlike, "top 10 Jen" skaters, with technique problems and simpler content for multiple Olympic cycles is not the way to go about it.

At minimum, it's time to start adding bonuses for triple axels and quads at domestic events, and to start considering technical content more heavily in international assignments.

Some of my ideas:
  • Guarantee that any triple axel attempt (including 3A<<) has a minimum score equivalent to a 2A with a +2.5 GOE in domestic events (basically, give any woman a "free" attempt), with no fall deduction on this element
  • Bonus points of 5.0 for any fully rotated quad, 4.0 for any quad <, and 3.0 for a quad <<, again with no fall deduction; two bonuses possible per program
  • Fully rotated, positive GOE triple axels and quads receiving top consideration for international assignments (including Grand Prix and Worlds) with at least equivalent weighting to national and international placements
  • Minimum attempted base value requirements for Worlds placements that make it impossible without two triple-triple combinations and hard without a triple axel or quad
  • Add a criterion that skaters who consistently receive edge calls or underrotations on triple jumps from international callers may be de-prioritized for selection to World and Olympic teams regardless of domestic placement (call it the Wagner-Chen rule)

I'd like to see a changing of the guard at Nationals this year, even if the new guard isn't eligible for the Olympics this year.
 
Louis, there are other criteria. Yes, Karen is inspected for URs, but international judges rank her highly anyway because of her speed and beautiful spins. That’s what IJS does, or is supposed to do, reward skaters for different aspects in which they excel.

The US needs women coaches to do what the Russian expats did for our dance program twenty years ago. But I sure don’t want us turned into a factory for 14-year-old phenoms.
 
Louis, there are other criteria. Yes, Karen is inspected for URs, but international judges rank her highly anyway because of her speed and beautiful spins. That’s what IJS does, or is supposed to do, reward skaters for different aspects in which they excel.

The US needs women coaches to do what the Russian expats did for our dance program twenty years ago. But I sure don’t want us turned into a factory for 14-year-old phenoms.
Yes I think the issue isn’t the bonus anymore but encouraging coaches to train the right technique and a system where kids learn the right skills and stay with then
 
You could cross your fingers for the "artistic" program proposal to pass, and hope Karen wins something there :p
 
Honestly, bonus systems could be helpful but they need to start with triple triples, not 3a and quads.

And they need to bring more pressure politically to get jump take offs and the whole under rotation issue reviewed critically. Some very flawed jumps are treated as clean while jumps with clean take offs that land early are treated harshly. Additionally the way those underrotations are discovered is very inconsistent.

I've always felt that the path to success with IJS is to chase grade of execution on jumps, not base value. While we are in the middle of a blizzard of quads and triple axles, I still think this is the best path. A consistent triple triple, even an easier one, is a must.
 
The US has added bonuses in domestic competition for triple axels and quads at junior level, and for triple-triples at intermediate and novice levels:

That will help develop a next generation of skaters who learn these skills at lower levels. The trick for the skaters will be keeping those skills as they get to senior level. Also whether there is incentive to attempt the risk elements in competition.

If the rules are different for domestic vs. international competition, then skaters might strategize when to try these elements vs. when to focus on skating clean programs.

The US has also changed the number and weighting of program components at lower levels to prioritize Skating Skills. Which is just as important for getting higher total scores internationally.
 
Louis, there are other criteria. Yes, Karen is inspected for URs, but international judges rank her highly anyway because of her speed and beautiful spins. That’s what IJS does, or is supposed to do, reward skaters for different aspects in which they excel.

The US needs women coaches to do what the Russian expats did for our dance program twenty years ago. But I sure don’t want us turned into a factory for 14-year-old phenoms.
I would love to hear what some of our legendary coaches, like Frank Carroll and John Nicks, think about the current state of ladies skating. Not just US ladies, but ladies overall. For the second Olympic quad in a row, it looks like we will have 15 year old champion in her first senior season. An Olympic gold medal used to be the cap on a career, not the start. Aside from maintaining difficult jumps at older ages, there is less motivation to continue once the big prize has been won. And with the young quadsters coming up, it looks like this situation will continue. The US will have to get behind it if they want to compete.
 
I would love to hear what some of our legendary coaches, like Frank Carroll and John Nicks, think about the current state of ladies skating. Not just US ladies, but ladies overall. For the second Olympic quad in a row, it looks like we will have 15 year old champion in her first senior season. An Olympic gold medal used to be the cap on a career, not the start. Aside from maintaining difficult jumps at older ages, there is less motivation to continue once the big prize has been won. And with the young quadsters coming up, it looks like this situation will continue. The US will have to get behind it if they want to compete.
I'm sure the older coaches wish they were making all that money from compulsory figures, but the time has changed. Quad jumps take a lot out of the skaters' bodies, including the men. The ISU needs to just bring back pro skating competitions and not have them scored under COP. That's where most of the huge stars were created and had longevity.

Back in the day, Katarina Witt was the anomaly staying in after she won in 1984 and she had only done so because she was supported by the state. All the top women retired and went pro young. Dorothy Hamill was 19 when she won and went professional. Peggy Fleming was 19. The culmination of their careers were as teenagers.

I don't think a whole lot has changed except abolishing compulsory figures which artificially kept the age older. Katarina Witt was winning free skates at worlds starting in 1982 when she was a young teenager.
 
I'm sure the older coaches wish they were making all that money from compulsory figures, but the time has changed. Quad jumps take a lot out of the skaters' bodies, including the men. The ISU needs to just bring back pro skating competitions and not have them scored under COP. That's where most of the huge stars were created and had longevity.

Back in the day, Katarina Witt was the anomaly staying in after she won in 1984 and she had only done so because she was supported by the state. All the top women retired and went pro young. Dorothy Hamill was 19 when she won and went professional. Peggy Fleming was 19. The culmination of their careers were as teenagers.

I don't think a whole lot has changed except abolishing compulsory figures which artificially kept the age older. Katarina Witt was winning free skates at worlds starting in 1982 when she was a young teenager.

Sonja Henie stayed on…to win a total of THREE consecutive Olympic gold medals. The Waltz jump was the Ultra-C of its day!
 
I'm sure the older coaches wish they were making all that money from compulsory figures, but the time has changed. Quad jumps take a lot out of the skaters' bodies, including the men. The ISU needs to just bring back pro skating competitions and not have them scored under COP. That's where most of the huge stars were created and had longevity.

Back in the day, Katarina Witt was the anomaly staying in after she won in 1984 and she had only done so because she was supported by the state. All the top women retired and went pro young. Dorothy Hamill was 19 when she won and went professional. Peggy Fleming was 19. The culmination of their careers were as teenagers.

I don't think a whole lot has changed except abolishing compulsory figures which artificially kept the age older. Katarina Witt was winning free skates at worlds starting in 1982 when she was a young teenager.
Yeah, I'm not sure the criticism of Zagitova (and possibly Valieva) winning the Olympics their first season on the senior circuit is really fair. Not many people around here would have been complaining had Sasha Cohen managed that feat twenty years ago (except me, the Sarah Hughes-uber, lol). Had the current age limits been in place, Oksana Baiul would have been in her first senior season when she won the Olympics, same for Tara Lipinski in 1998. Honestly, it's a pretty remarkable thing, to be able to win the Olympics your first season competing at the senior level.

Now, I wouldn't have a problem if the age limit was raised but I don't see how that is going to necessarily prevent skaters from spending just one or two seasons on the senior international level competing and, if they hit the birthday year lottery just right, winning the Olympics their first season out. Beyond that, skaters like Valieva are really very special and insanely talented. Not every single first year senior is going to have the rare, pure raw talent she has (otherwise the Russian Women going to Euros would also include Khromykh and Sinitsyna, who both finished behind Tuk - who is no spring chicken).

The USFS needs to figure out how to properly develop our women - there's something missing in the sauce right now, and it starts with the basics. I think they're doing fine with the domestic IJS in rewarding more difficult jumps and 3-3s at the lower levels but I don't think rewarding the 3As, quads and 3-3s at the senior level domestically will do much good. By then, the die has already been cast.
 
Also, had Medvedeva not been injured in the Fall before the Olympics, it isn't clear whether Zagitova's PCS would have sky-rocketed the way they did, when the Russian Fed needed a dominant favorite leading into the competition, and she became "it".

Plus, Zagitova competed through 2020: she didn't just take the OGM and run.
 
Wasn't Requiem her LP music several years ago?
It was her SP for the 2014-15 season

 
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