U.S. Ladies [#20]: In a Week, Maybe Two, They'll Make You a Star

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Given Bradie's skill level and what she accomplished at SA, as long as she has a decent skate she'll be on that team.

She's been the only US woman to deliver on the senior level without a bunch of URs and errors. Pretty much every other top skater (Ashley, Mirai, Karen, Mariah, Courtney, Polina) struggles with UR/consistency issues. Having a skater who has the content and can execute is rare and precious...so essentially Bradie is a unicorn.

If the unicorn skates decently, she will make it to Pyeongchang.
 
I think Ashley would have to totally bomb for her not to go to OLYS. Everything else IMO is up for grabs. It is going to be a real nail biter.
 
Dobre said:
I think if you are Ashley, Mirai, Karen, Bradie, or Mariah, you need to be among the top three of that group to make the team.
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I am not so sure. If the top five are Karen, Mirai, Mariah, Bradie and Ashley, in that order, do you really think both Bradie and Ashley stay home? I think Mariah may have the fewest cards to play in such a case.
 
AxelAnnie said:
That is kind of my point. Argue the skill, the discipline, the athleticism, but stop trying to convince people it is just like all sports. It is not because it is judged subjectively....just like gymnastics and horses in the hunter or dressage ring.
Basketball players don't try to create a mood or theme or beauty. They simply get the ball in the basket and the team with the most baskets win.

Does anyone remember the study they did comparing the athleticism required of Timothy Goebel to do a jump with a basketball player making a dunk? The effort and skill were pretty equal but Tim had to finish be landing on thin blade...and with a smile.

I think we defeat ourselves when we try to educate and convince people that figure skating is just as much a sport as any other. When you try to argue that yes...they fell but they rotated first so the still get points on that element people look at you like you are nuts
Can you imagine deducting 2 points from a touchdown because the guy rolled twice in the end zone?
I don't think anyone can or would argue the athleticism required of a skater. And it is just foolish to roll in the muddy muck of is it a sport. It does not need to be defended.
From time to time we get a friend of a rider or husband of a rider who after one round is convinced that riding is just staying in the saddle and looking good. My trainer says "let's let them chap up and throw a leg over and see how they do".
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I don't mean to sound rude, but really who cares if she wants to defend figure skating as a sport. And if you watch football you are incorrect about it not being judged. The refs judge plays all the time and sometimes, the calls are wrong. So yes there has probably been a time when a guy rolled twice in the in zone and lost control of the ball that you can only see on watching instant replay on 5 different angels for 5 minutes, and the team lost 7 points. It actually happened during the Steelers/ Patriots game this weekend. Steelers scored a "game winning touchdown" The announcers watched it over and over and said the call would stand. The play was under review FOREVER. IMO it was the right call but it took like 10 minutes of instant replay, and you could not tell unless you watched it like 20 times. Annnd they lost.
 
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Spun Silver said:
I am not so sure. If the top five are Karen, Mirai, Mariah, Bradie and Ashley, in that order, do you really think both Bradie and Ashley stay home? I think Mariah may have the fewest cards to play in such a case.
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Mariah has a higher SB than Ashley. I thought--around the middle of the season--that Mariah would need to be top-two to fend off an Ashley that isn't on the podium. But after SA, I revised Ashley out of the priority list among these five athletes in my brain & put her in the same boat. I could be wrong. I've been wrong many times before.

As I've said earlier in this thread, I see no reason why Ashley (or for that matter, Bradie) shouldn't skate well enough to secure a place on the podium. I just think they need to do it.

FYI, the last time I was wrong about a political selection by USFSA was for the dance slot at Skate America. I thought McNamara & Carpenter's resume ought to be good enough for them to defeat the Parsons for the spot with a head-to-head win during the summer.

It wasn't.

M&C have the higher GP score.

The time before that--when I was wrong--was when USFSA sent Cain & Le Duc over Castelli & Tran to 4CCs.

Castelli & Tran have the higher SB right now.

Forecasting the future is not, IMO, USFSA's strength. They looked at the results this summer & selected Bradie for SA based on those results. This worked. Last season they looked at summer results after Angela withdrew and selected Mariah for SA. This also worked. The judges went out on a limb at Nationals last season & gave Karen the scores to win the title. She did the job at Worlds. It seems to me the pattern, at the moment, is when in doubt, go with the athlete who skates well now. That's probably the one who will get the job done.

I very much doubt we will see the results finish in the order you listed above; but if we did, I would use Mirai in the team event. She has the SB. She would--at that point--have three solid skates in big events this season. She has Olympic experience. Mirai's problem is that she tightens up under pressure. If she places higher than Ashley & Bradie at Nationals, she'll have dealt with that demon. If Ashley or Bradie place above her and another one of these ladies, then Ashley or Bradie will have made their argument.

Note: I like Bradie, and I really think she's done her job this season. But she has just as significantly a history of URs in competition as the rest of these girls. I feel like some people have forgotten or don't realize that because they haven't been watching her closely over the last couple seasons.

Note 2: I think it's entirely possible that another lady--like Courtney or Angela--places somewhere in between these 5 ladies. I just don't know if they have the body of work to factor. Very well might depend on the placement.

There are four athletes/teams at Nationals (1 man and 3 dance teams) who I think have proven they are competitive for a medal at the Olympic Games.
 
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I still don't think whichever 3 ladies make the team are totally out of the running for a Oly or World medal, even though the only ones who really showed that on the GP are Bradie and to some extent Mirai (who defeated Satoko at NHK and only lost to Med, Kostner, and Tsurskaya there). Right now I would say 3 Russians, 2 Japanese, and Kostner and Osmond are the frontrunners, but I am very curious to see how US Nats turns out. I've been revisiting Tonya's career in the early 90's and also the MK/Nicole/Tara years after that. It was just so funny to see how Michelle came up in 1994 as a cute but totally whatever skater IMO. In 1995 there were huge improvements and glimpses of future greatness, but still rough patches. In 1996 she was just gangbusters and it was off to the races from there. Michelles don't come along every day and its a different world now, but just like Jill Trenary in 1990 probably couldn't imagine a 1991 Worlds podium with 3 US ladies on it that weren't her, I think most people in 1994 weren't imagining that two US ladies who weren't Tonya or Nancy would be contending for a world podium in 1995. Stars are born every year at Nationals so I will wait and see...
 
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Dobre said:
Note: I like Bradie, and I really think she's done her job this season. But she has just as significantly a history of URs in competition as the rest of these girls.
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She does? At SkAM she had a grand total of 0 I believe.

Even commentators said this is a skater who isn't up for review.......
 
The way things have gone this season, I do not see an American lady making the Olympic podium. There is just too much depth internationally, plus I do not see any politics in U.S. ladies' favor even should they all skate well (whoever makes the team). If any U.S. lady does make the Olympic podium, hmmm, it would take a miracle and other favored ladies having problems. If so, I would hope for a Mirai miracle :), but Mirai needs to be turning it up a notch at U.S. Nats first (and hopefully putting her technical skills together with a greater focus on presentation).

Dobre said:
... I think it's entirely possible that another lady--like Courtney or Angela--places somewhere in between these 5 ladies. I just don't know if they have the body of work to factor.
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Not only do these two not have the body of work, they also haven't yet shown enough grit and self-belief under pressure. They both have loads of talent -- uber-talented with very special gifts. But in figure skating today, U.S. ladies really need not only humongous self-belief, they also need luck, and the ability to know how to attack with aggression and determination. Consistency and having a 'take no prisoners' attitude has been sorely lacking among U.S. ladies for some time. Karen has shown attack on occasion, but she just as easily has had a tendency to lose concentration and focus, which allows the nerves to creep in. Angela has had some good results this season with Ryan Bradley's support. However, it hasn't been enough for her to make a statement yet. Courtney has some wonderful programs this season, but she's been inconsistent and too often tentative.

Mariah has not shown she can put it together consistently. Mariah is beautiful and extremely talented, but she hasn't backed it up on the ice. She needs a shot of toughness, self-belief, and determination. Perhaps the fact that Mariah has been relearning technique under Raf has put her at a disadvantage this season. Ashley has determination and self-confidence, but when her window of opportunity was at it's highest circa 2012 - 2013, she faltered and lost some international momentum that she never really got back, especially with Gracie Gold coming on the scene as a U.S. rival with better technical skills. Ashley has achieved some steady, star-making results over the past five years though, so with a good effort at Nats she will surely make the Olympic team in her final competitive season.

I think self-belief and attack are the most important qualities for these ladies, along with luck and a fair share of political favor. Bradie had a very promising showing at Skate America. She definitely has the goods, and she showed attack and self-confidence along with joy for her programs. Hopefully her showing at SA was enough of a boost for her to continue forward with some confidence and consistency.
 
I see a US Lady getting to the podium if everything ends up being bizarre and a ton of people get injured. I could definitely see the podium not being a Russian sweep, especially with the Canadian and Japanese ladies looking so strong and Medvedeva having injury issues (not to mention Pogo being out). But it would take a lot more than anything happening right now for a US lady to be on the podium.

I think Bradie could definitely be the US up-and-comer finishing high in their first Olymipcs a la Gracie in 2014 or Mirai in 2010, but that would still take a lot of things happening - first of all being Bradie making that team.
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
LOL then what are you talking about..... This isn't making any sense.
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The OP said that Bradie would be named to the team as long as she was in the top 5 at US Nationals in a couple of weeks. I said that would not happen-- US Figure Skating would never send an athlete to the Olympics who was never on the US Nationals podium. They then corrected themselves and said that they were speaking of Ashley, which negates the whole point. Someone then said that Polina went to the OG without having ever podiumed at USN, and I pointed out that she did, in fact, podium in Boston-- just a month or so before her Olympics experience. It's not that difficult people.
 
Jayar said:
The OP said that Bradie would be named to the team as long as she was in the top 5 at US Nationals in a couple of weeks. I said that would not happen-- US Figure Skating would never send an athlete to the Olympics who was never on the US Nationals podium. They then corrected themselves and said that they were speaking of Ashley, which negates the whole point. Someone then said that Polina went to the OG without having ever podiumed at USN, and I pointed out that she did, in fact, podium in Boston-- just a month or so before her Olympics experience. It's not that difficult people.
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I think people are just confused because half of them misunderstood the OP. I think they thought you were only talking about medalling prior to the Olympic season... Anyway, the OP has since clarified, so hopefully no more confusion! :)
 
Jayar said:
The OP said that Bradie would be named to the team as long as she was in the top 5 at US Nationals in a couple of weeks. I said that would not happen-- US Figure Skating would never send an athlete to the Olympics who was never on the US Nationals podium. They then corrected themselves and said that they were speaking of Ashley, which negates the whole point. Someone then said that Polina went to the OG without having ever podiumed at USN, and I pointed out that she did, in fact, podium in Boston-- just a month or so before her Olympics experience. It's not that difficult people.
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No the OP said Ashley would be named to the Oly team as long as she was top 5 at Nats
 
berthesghost said:
But how can we move on while Bradiemania is sweeping the nation! Now that Gracie is no longer going to save the world, all of our hopes and dreams have to be focused on someone, right? Lol
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Here's the story of our U.S. ladies
They were all such very lovely girls.
All of them had one problem or another,
And we bitched like churls.

Here's the story of a gal named Bradie,
Who was skating with great technique of her own,
She had it all together,
Yet she was all alone.

Till the one day when our Bradie scored over 200
And we knew it was much more than a hunch,
That this group must somehow form a fan club.
That's the way we all became the Bradie Bunch.

The Bradie Bunch,
The Bradie Bunch,
That's the way we became the Bradie Bunch.

:fan:​
 
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Vagabond said:
Here's the story of our U.S. ladies
They were all such very lovely girls.
All of them had one problem or another,
And we bitched like churls.

Here's the story of a gal named Bradie,
Who was skating with great technique of her own,
She had it all together,
Yet she was all alone.

Till the one day when our Bradie scored over 200
And we knew it was much more than a hunch,
That this group must somehow form a fan club.
That's the way we all became the Bradie Bunch.

The Bradie Bunch,
The Bradie Bunch,
That's the way we became the Bradie Bunch.

:fan:​
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What an awesome name for her fan club, should it really develop!
 
Oh @Vagabond, dear Vagabond. You are a gem! Wish you could script up some magic for these ladiezzz!

All is not lost, I suppose. Did Shakespeare ever say that? Apparently a literary critic (Josie Billington) while discussing Shakespeare and Elizabeth Barrett Browning said this: "That all is lost or losing, is a thought that cannot be gainsaid [denied]." But as long as there's life, there's hope?

There's these song lyrics too by OK Go:

But when they say that all is lost
All is not lost, all is not lost
But when they say that all is lost
All is not lost, no all is not lost at all...

:drama:
 
Karen Chen is featured in this Bay area news segment (via this tweet: https://twitter.com/nbcbayarea/status/945429288731496448 ) in which Kristi Yamaguchi was interviewed along with Karen (taped when they both were performing in Kristi's "A Golden Moment" back in early September): https://www.nbcbayarea.com/on-air/a...ful-Skates-in-Fremont_Bay-Area-442819523.html
The reporter will be covering the Olympics for this NBC station (eta: I've also posted a similar video on Vincent Zhou in the U.S. Men's thread).
 
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