U.S. Ladies [#20]: In a Week, Maybe Two, They'll Make You a Star

[Sasha'sSpins]

Well, with the whole person stalking her social media, it's probably a good choice to move. It's probably a less good choice to announce she's moving on social media when she knows the person likely follows her on it...

With that clearly disturbed woman stalking Ashley I think she should have just moved and maybe not announced it on Instagram...

Imo, Bradie is on that Olympic team, as long as she is top 5 so will Ashley. I think the third spot will be a battle between Mirai, Karen, and Mariah.

 

[Spun Silver]

I wish skaters...Ashley in this case would stop trying to defend Figure Skating as a sport. It is not an argument that can be won and I find it demeans Ashley or whomever enters into it. Figure Skating is athletic....no doubt about that. But it is a judged sport which makes it different. It is like trying to convince people that a table is a chair......It isn't. That does not make it less than anything else...just different.

I'm not sure I understand. I think there are many many people who underestimate the fiendish difficulty of this sport, since part of its essence is making it look effortless. It's good to keep educating people about the athleticism that's involved IMO.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I'm not sure I understand. I think there are many many people who underestimate the fiendish difficulty of this sport, since part of its essence is making it look effortless. It's good to keep educating people about the athleticism that's involved IMO.

That is kind of my point. Argue the skill, the discipline, the athleticism, but stop trying to convince people it is just like all sports. It is not because it is judged subjectively....just like gymnastics and horses in the hunter or dressage ring.
Basketball players don't try to create a mood or theme or beauty. They simply get the ball in the basket and the team with the most baskets win.

Does anyone remember the study they did comparing the athleticism required of Timothy Goebel to do a jump with a basketball player making a dunk? The effort and skill were pretty equal but Tim had to finish be landing on thin blade...and with a smile.

I think we defeat ourselves when we try to educate and convince people that figure skating is just as much a sport as any other. When you try to argue that yes...they fell but they rotated first so the still get points on that element people look at you like you are nuts
Can you imagine deducting 2 points from a touchdown because the guy rolled twice in the end zone?
I don't think anyone can or would argue the athleticism required of a skater. And it is just foolish to roll in the muddy muck of is it a sport. It does not need to be defended.
From time to time we get a friend of a rider or husband of a rider who after one round is convinced that riding is just staying in the saddle and looking good. My trainer says "let's let them chap up and throw a leg over and see how they do".

 

[Spun Silver]

@AxelAnnie, this has all probably been hashed and rehashed since FSU began, so I won't be long. (ETA: Oops.)

- Just because figure skating is a unique sport does not mean it is any less sport. It is sport plus art. I think many people unfamiliar with it hear the music, see the costumes, see that it is judged, and dismiss it as not a real sport. That is a case that can easily be argued and I see no reason not to (only not by me right now because it's too late and people here already know).

- Your example about points for falling on a rotated jump actually points to the sport's objectivity, not its subjectivity. At least in theory. (Alas, technical callers are not consistent.) I think that complaint is with the judging system, not the sport itself.

Theoretically computers, cameras and/or robots could do the technical calling of elements in a purely objective way and (why not?) even award GOE on elements -- that scientific method would seem to be in the spirit of the IJS. It would take some time to hone the machinery but it's surely possible. It is the other set of marks that will always be subjective.

IMO fans would be relieved to know that the technical elements were being marked (I am avoiding the word judged because it wouldn't apply to cameras, computers and robots) objectively and impartially. That would also clarify the purely sports aspect of figure skating. But I think that people would balk at having artistry/choreography/interpretation/perhaps even skating skills (although that last one might be transferable into the technical side) judged by a robot. At least I would stop watching if that came to pass. Those are the aspects that make this sport unalterably subjective.

But I don't see what is so hard about arguing it is sport, but of a unique type that has an extra dimension that others don't.

 

[RoseRed]

@AxelAnnie If people dismiss it as a sport, I see no reason not to tell them why they're wrong. I hear that stuff all the time about horseback riding, and not just hunter/dressage. I wouldn't argue that figure skating is just like any other sport (though it's not the only judged sport that has some subjectivity), but the point is that that doesn't make it not a sport. Like @Spun Silver said, lots of people underestimate how difficult / physically demanding it is, so why not correct them? Lots of people think that horseback riding isn't a real sport because the horses do all the work, and if someone says that to me I'll correct them. Some people don't care/believe you, but lots of people are interested, they just didn't know. And horseback riding is a good example, because it's unlike any other Olympic sport, in that humans have animal partners. There's nothing wrong with wanting people to understand that the unique things about a sport don't make it less of a sport.

 

[Jayar]

Imo, Bradie is on that Olympic team, as long as she is top 5 so will Ashley.

Huh? A skater who has NEVER podiumed at US Nationals is not going to be named to the Olympic team.

 

[VGThuy]

Huh? A skater who has NEVER podiumed at US Nationals is not going to be named to the Olympic team.

I think some people are jumping the gun here just because every U.S. lady has had serious UR issues and/or issues skating cleanly other than Tennell and Tennell's LP score is encouraging to say the least. It's all about rotation and landing jumps right now. That's where the U.S. ladies are at, sadly. That said, I think it is too soon to think she's a sure thing, though my head also thinks she's pretty close to it due to her international scores this season compared to everybody else's.

 

[AxelAnnie]

@AxelAnnie If people dismiss it as a sport, I see no reason not to tell them why they're wrong. I hear that stuff all the time about horseback riding, and not just hunter/dressage. I wouldn't argue that figure skating is just like any other sport (though it's not the only judged sport that has some subjectivity), but the point is that that doesn't make it not a sport. Like @Spun Silver said, lots of people underestimate how difficult / physically demanding it is, so why not correct them? Lots of people think that horseback riding isn't a real sport because the horses do all the work, and if someone says that to me I'll correct them. Some people don't care/believe you, but lots of people are interested, they just didn't know. And horseback riding is a good example, because it's unlike any other Olympic sport, in that humans have animal partners. There's nothing wrong with wanting people to understand that the unique things about a sport don't make it less of a sport.

There are only 3 judged Olympic Sports Skating, Gymnastics and Equestrienne. Try sport with an animal that on any given day may or may not be "in the mood". I cannot tell you the number of times I have made a (rather glaring) error that the judge did not see, and won the class. Or vice versa. Judged sports are a subset of sports.

However, I just looked up the definition of SPORT in Wikipedia, and I will conceded the point.

Sport is generally recognized as system of activities which are based in physical athleticism or physical dexterity, with the largest major competitions such as the Olympic Games admitting only sports meeting this definition,

Sports are usually governed by a set of rules or customs, which serve to ensure fair competition, and allow consistent adjudication of the winner. Winning can be determined by physical events such as scoring goals or crossing a line first. It can also be determined by judges who are scoring elements of the sporting performance, including objective or subjective measures such as technical performance or artistic impression.

As for @SpunSilver/user informing people is great. I think that Ashley's tweet is self defeating. It was just a jab at a guy making a jab. And, although we (and the world) can and do certainly appreciate the athleticism and skill involved in figure skating, even we, the mighty informed and invested FSUers and sports broadcasters can't agree on the scoring..............we will never convince the every four year fan that the sport makes sense.

 

[flyingsit]

There are only 3 judged Olympic Sports Skating, Gymnastics and Equestrienne.

Seriously? Diving. Snowboarding. Synchronized swimming. Those are the ones that immediately came to mind.

 

[Jayar]

There are only 3 judged Olympic Sports Skating, Gymnastics and Equestrienne.

Synchro swimming? Diving?

 

[AxelAnnie]

I was not sure how those sports were calculated.

Found this while I was looking for the Tim Goebel video:

Why Figure Skating is one of the Hardest Sports in the World.

While skating for four minutes straight and flinging your body into the air to do jump after jump and doing difficult footwork to get crucial points, you have to be present. The. Entire. Time. You can’t be hunchbacked with spaghetti arms as you skate. That presents a terrible image to the judges and audience. When you can barely breathe and you are frantically trying to stay calm for your next jump passage, you have to keep your shoulders down, have your arms out, your head held high and your torso upright. It takes so much more strength to stand straight while doing these skills as supposed to just channeling that strength into getting up in the air. Try this right now: keep your arms straight out from your body at shoulder length for four minutes straight. It’s not as easy as it seems, so imagine doing that while going all over the ice.

 

[SmallFairy]

Seriously? Diving. Snowboarding. Synchronized swimming. Those are the ones that immediately came to mind.

You beat me to it.

 

[love skating]

^Don't forget boxing!

 

[Willin]

And boxing is one with blatantly corrupt judges. So blatantly corrupt. So, so corrupt. They don't even try to hide it.

Diving, Synchronized Swimming, Gymnastics, Rhythmic Gymnastics (considered separate from artistic by the IOC and FIG), Equestrian, Boxing, Snowboarding, Aerial Skiing, Ski Jumping (half the points are judged, half are distance) - that's at least nine events other than skating that are judged.

We can also say that most sports are judged by the refs. As we see a lot, good/bad decisions by the refs can definitely influence the outcome of games. Two NFL games alone last Sunday had calls that potentially affected the outcome. So even those have some aspect of judging involved. While that can easily be negated by one team crushing the other to the point that calls don't matter, when two teams are otherwise equal, the refs can change the outcome.

 

[AxelAnnie]

As a side note (and excluding the OLYS) FS is rarely broadcast in real time....and is NEVER broadcast live on the West Coast. I don't know of any straight sports (football, basketball, tennis) that that happens with. Anyone venture a guess? I remember having to hook up a satellite connection to an East Coast feed to see Sarah Hughes win in SLC. Even though SLC is one hour ahead of CA, the broadcast was three hours delayed on the West Coast.

 

[VGThuy]

Just a little plug, if you’re confused about some of the other sports, then you can check out the Team USA videos with the Shibs where they explain how some of them work and are judged. For some reason they dubbed over Maia’s voice with a sportier sounding one.

 

[RoseRed]

Are are lots of judged olympic sports, especially some of the new ones like surfing and skateboarding.

Summer Olympics: Artistic gymnastics, rhymthic gymnastics, trampoline, BMX freestyle (I think), equestrian (dressage and eventing, not show jumping), boxing, wrestling, surfing, skateboarding, diving, synchronized swimming
Winter Olympics: figure skating, ski jumping, freestyle skiing, snowboarding

That's 15 disciplines with judging being important.

 

[Vagabond]

The ski jumping part of Nordic combined is judged too.

 

[AxelAnnie]

I think moguls judged too? It must be....at least the tricks.

 

[Vagabond]

Moguls is part of freestyle skiing. Other freestyle disciplines are judged too.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Thanks!

 

[mag]

Hockey, basketball, softball ... any sport with a referee is partly judged. The way a ref calls is based on judgement and that can have a huge affect on the outcome.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Are there any OLY sports that have neither a judge or a referee?

 

[Frida80]

Are there any OLY sports that have neither a judge or a referee?

No. All sports need a referee or judge to maintain the rules.

 

[AxelAnnie]

So we end up with all sports are judged! . That is a way different place than where I started out from this morning!

 

[Coco]

Except Ultimate Frisbee, or so they say....

Having played ultimate, they could totally use a referee, totally!

 

[Spun Silver]

So we end up with all sports are judged! . That is a way different place than where I started out from this morning!

You went Through the Looking Glass!

But seriously, thank you for bringing this up. I never realized all sports are judged to some degree. This is great ammunition!

 

[Dobre]

As a side note (and excluding the OLYS) FS is rarely broadcast in real time....and is NEVER broadcast live on the West Coast.

Happily, this is no longer true. The Olympic Channel has been broadcasting everything LIVE on the West Coast this season (maybe a 5 or 10 minute delay, but essentially live). It's a miracle. NBC doesn't, but those of us fortunate enough to have the Olympic Channel haven't had to wait for the NBC broadcast. I assume NBC will be doing Nationals so, ironically, though it's in San Jose, my guess is that Nationals will be shown on a delay. (But fortunately, I'll be in San Jose so I shall be watching it all live).

 

[AxelAnnie]

It hasn't been on my TV live.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Huh? A skater who has NEVER podiumed at US Nationals is not going to be named to the Olympic team.

There was a comma after Bradie's name - the top 5 was meant for Ashley. I may not have been clear enough. But Bradie, imo, due to her 'body of work' this season alone as the top American, and the only one who has scored 200+ in front of international judging panels, has gotten herself on the Olympic team, barring injury or a disastrous skate - which I very much doubt she is going to have. I can just tell she is going to nail her programs at Nationals and she could even win.