U.S. Ladies [#20]: In a Week, Maybe Two, They'll Make You a Star

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kwanatic said:
Given Bradie's skill level and what she accomplished at SA, as long as she has a decent skate she'll be on that team.

She's been the only US woman to deliver on the senior level without a bunch of URs and errors. Pretty much every other top skater (Ashley, Mirai, Karen, Mariah, Courtney, Polina) struggles with UR/consistency issues. Having a skater who has the content and can execute is rare and precious...so essentially Bradie is a unicorn.

If the unicorn skates decently, she will make it to Pyeongchang.
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We'll see how she does at the big event. I do wish Bradie was skating to something other than Cinderella. It's almost as bad as Polina skating to Peter Pan or whatever that pink fluff dress program was.
 
I don't think Cinderella is as bad as Polina's Peter Pan. Plenty of Senior skaters skate to fairy tale music - usually the ballet as opposed to a Disney version, but princesses are still acceptable. I believe one of Japan's new Senior ladies used it as her music last year.
Also, Bradie's dress is 1000% better than Polina's bubblegum pink fairy nightmare complete with fake fairy wings on the back. The dress was a huge part of the awful. In theory, a fairy program could work (and in retrospect the choreography was good), but a fairy program + bubblegum pink + fairy wings + fluffy pink skirt = little girl program, not Senior lady. If she's had a dress like Bradie's, she would've at least looked her age and skating level.
 
Made me chuckle originally, but I actually think the whole "Cinderella" choice fits in so exceedingly obviously "central casting" to the whole narrative of her potentially 'coming out of nowhere' to ... capture a podium placement, a spot on the team, etc. etc. that it can't help but become part of the mindset. It's like a hammer and a nail scenario ... and what we have here is a really big obvious hammer.
 
wickedwitch said:
Obviously the packaging wasn't ideal, but I loved Polina's Peter Pan program.
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Agree. I loved Polina's Peter Pan program as well. IMO, many people couldn't see past the ill-conceived dress. The skirt of the dress was interesting, but the bodice and the color were mistakes.

Add to that the small, but very vocal, set of haters who were anxious to find any excuse to belittle Polina.
 
essence_of_soy said:
The Russian & Japanese ladies looked really strong at their national championships.

Here's hoping the US ladies can can produce a really strong team for PyeongChang.
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Describe strong. If you mean competitive, I think that ship has sailed. There are also the Canadians to consider and Carolina. I think the US is behind all that.
 
In theory yes, but Bradie was only 6 points behind Kaori at Skate America. Karen defeated Carolina, Sotskova, and Wakaba at Worlds 2017 (and Ashley ahead of the latter two also). Mirai defeated Satoko at NHK trophy this year. There are flashes of competitiveness going on if you look hard enough, and IMO Sotskova is getting wildly overscored anyway... very interested to see how Nationals turns out.
 
AxelAnnie said:
Describe strong. If you mean competitive, I think that ship has sailed. There are also the Canadians to consider and Carolina. I think the US is behind all that.
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That is why I chose my words very carefully.

Skating is such a crap shoot with so many variables to consider, one simply cannot predict results before they happen. (Unless you include the pairs' final from Salt Lake City.)

What I love this year is the depth in the ladies' event heading into the Olympic Games. I am still a little sad that potentially the best and most underrated skater of all, Wakaba Higuchi, won't be there. (Yes, I know she didn't skate as well as she had at Lombardia. But still...)

Interesting, that she was selected to go to the World Championships, however. So, Japan, still thinks she is worthy of earning them three spots next year.
 
i truly did not know what you meant by strong. I would say that the US Ladies have been many things this season so far, but strong (IMO) is not one of them. What I would love is to have all the ladies skate every planned element and to the best of their ability. Now THAT would be fabulous. Can you imagine if all the Ladies did their best. If everyone won on their merits and not someone else's error.

Of course, we would need fair and unbiased judging. But we can hope.
I think that would give us Medvedeva, (with her amazing consistency) Kostner (for sheer beauty of skating, musicality and elements) and Osmond (Her text-book jumps) on the podium. Each of the three are a Masters Class on skating. But, that is just me.
 
Looking back, managing the 4th/7th place that the U.S women accomplished in 2010/2014 seems like a long shot, unless the stars align. I think the top 5 in Pyeongchang will consist of 2 Russians, Kostner, Osmond, and a Japanese skater. Beyond that our top lady (whoever that ends up being) still has to deal with another Japanese lady, Daleman, and Tursynbaeva at the very least. I’d consider it a success if 2 American women are in the top 10 at both the Olympics and worlds. That being said I really hope that we have somewhat of a clean competition at nationals. Based on percentage of rotated jumps this season, I’d say that it is Tennell’s title to lose, but at the same time I’m counting on the fact that Nagasu is always at her best for Olympic year nationals, and Wagner being somewhat of an underdog going into San Jose, so I’m optimistic about 2018 nationals being a “cleaner” competition than usual for the U.S. ladies. At the end of the day i still think Karen Chen is the most IJS friendly of the U.S. women so if she’s anywhere close to clean she will be on the team. But for some reason I’m thinking it’s not going to happen, I think the Olympic team will Be Tennell, Wagner and Nagasu, but both Wagner and Nagasu aren’t the skaters that they have been in years past (yes I know Nagasu has a 3axel now) so I think the lower top 10 is a likely place for both of them. Yes skating is about both technical and presentation ability, but none of our women have been among the absolute best in the world in either category. I think at the end of the day that we need the right combination of competent/smart coaching for IJS, a skater with a competitive grit, and choreography and brings out the best in our skaters. I’m sorry to say that our women are not close to that (yet). Hopefully the next Olympic cycle shows signs of improvement, but it seems to me that the early part of this Olympic cycle was the highlight for the U.S. ladies. It’s crazy to think that an inconsistent Gold and Wagner that always managed top 7 finishes at the big competitions would seem like a blessing this season. I’ll end my rant now, my point I guess is that we should be realistic about what the U.S. ladies will manage, keeping it simple, it seems that to be a true contender you have to at least break 200 points overall this season, and Tennell was the only one to do it so far this season, on U.S. soil.
 
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Helene Elliott's column on Ashley Wagner, published last night: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-us-skating-wagner-elliott-20171226-story.html
“I think ‘La La Land’ has the potential for me to do something really special. What’s most important for me with my skating is that I believe in what I’m doing, and if I am 100 percent sold on my story, I can make it happen. That’s what ‘La La Land’ has finally given me.”
Wagner, 26, added some instrumentation to make the “La La Land” program “much bigger and more exciting,” befitting her vision of an Olympic routine. “Sometimes you need to step away from something to realize it’s exactly what you need,” she said Tuesday during a conference call with reporters. “In an Olympic season it’s easy to lose sight of what you really want and what you really need because of the chaos of the season.”
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More quotes from her media teleconference call yesterday, tweeted by Lynn Rutherford: https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/status/945791470912573440
On @USFigureSkating teleconference, @AshWagner2010 said her foot is "100 percent" and she is "feeling dramatically better since SKAM mentally, emotionally & most important, physically." 1/3
She has added some instrumentation to her La La Land free skate music, so it "feels bigger to me .... I'm refreshed & refocused, the physical side of training is dramatically easier." 2/3
Attitude heading into #USChamps18 in San Jose is focused & positive: "I'm going to put it all out there on the table .... I know what I have to do & I'm more than capable of doing it." 3/3
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ETA that Jackie Wong also tweeted about Wagner's call and here is what she said about Nagasu:
https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/945789441452462080
Mirai and I have come up together in this sport. We were on the same Junior Worlds team eons ago [2007]. I've seen her at her best ... she is such a fighter and I think she and I identify with each other. The fact that she has stuck around for this long is pretty cool.
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AxelAnnie said:
i truly did not know what you meant by strong. I would say that the US Ladies have been many things this season so far, but strong (IMO) is not one of them. What I would love is to have all the ladies skate every planned element and to the best of their ability. Now THAT would be fabulous. Can you imagine if all the Ladies did their best. If everyone won on their merits and not someone else's error.

Of course, we would need fair and unbiased judging. But we can hope.
I think that would give us Medvedeva, (with her amazing consistency) Kostner (for sheer beauty of skating, musicality and elements) and Osmond (Her text-book jumps) on the podium. Each of the three are a Masters Class on skating. But, that is just me.
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Well in the last two US Nationals in an Olympic year the ladies who made the podium skated great especially in the LP. Like Scott Hamilton said in 2010 after Rachael and Mirai skated clean in the LP this is how you want the ladies who make the Olympic team to skate.
 
Jammers said:
Well in the last two US Nationals in an Olympic year the ladies who made the podium skated great especially in the LP. Like Scott Hamilton said in 2010 after Rachael and Mirai skated clean in the LP this is how you want the ladies who make the Olympic team to skate.
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I re-watched Ashley skate at 2016 Worlds last night. She was just brilliant. Hasn't skated like that since! I hope she finds her MoJo
 
On #USChamps18 call, @mirai_nagasu said her goal "is to go for everything.... put out 2 good performances & let results fall where they will." Regarding #PyeongChang2018 team criteria, she said, "I don't necessarily feel I have to win" in order to be named to team. (1/2)

Regarding triple axel, @mirai_nagasu said she enjoyed the attention & recognition the jump was getting & still does 10+ reps a day in practice: "It's as good or better than my other jumps." 2/2
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https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/status/946054443568680960
https://twitter.com/LynnRutherford/status/946054999443951616

ETA - Michelle Kennedy's tweet: https://twitter.com/CenteredSpin/status/946053956030967808
Nagasu said during the teleconference: “It would mean the world to me to make the Olympic Team." She is keeping the 3 axel in both her short program and free skate. When asked if she will compete next seasons she responded, "I'm taking one competition at a time."
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Meteoric rise has Bradie Tennell dreaming about Olympics
Illinoisan just now realizing potential she flashed in winning [2015] U.S. junior title
Posted 12/27/17 by Philip Hersh, special to icenetwork
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/12/27/264031232/
Excerpt:
But three months after her [2015 Junior] triumph in Greensboro, North Carolina, Tennell fractured both wings of a lumbar vertebra and was forced to spend that whole summer in a back brace. In the ensuing season, she managed a sixth-place finish in her senior debut at the U.S. championships and earned a place at the world junior championships, where she fell three times in the free skate and came in 11th overall.
"That was a little hard for me," she said. "I knew I was capable of so much more. I felt like I had let myself down."
It was one of several times Tennell would need to rely on a mindset inculcated by her mother, Jean.
"I don't dwell on things," Tennell said. "You can't change the past."
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Sylvia said:
Meteoric rise has Bradie Tennell dreaming about Olympics
Illinoisan just now realizing potential she flashed in winning [2015] U.S. junior title
Posted 12/27/17 by Philip Hersh, special to icenetwork
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/12/27/264031232/
Excerpt:
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I am not a fan of highlighting others shortcomings to prop someone else up, which I feel this article does. Hopefully she is not overconfident at Nationals. Ok yay she beat 2015 world champ Elizaveta Tuktamisheva...but so has everyone else in the sport, basically since 2015.

Unless you are a Michelle or a Sasha and death is probably the only thing keeping you from the Olympic Team, this type of hype cannot be good.
 
UGG said:
I am not a fan of highlighting others shortcomings to prop someone else up, which I feel this article does.
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I didn't get that vibe at all from this article.

For example, Hersh wrote:
A victory at the Philadelphia Summer International in early August, when she landed the triple lutz-triple toe in both programs, served as a springboard for what was to come. She had a mini-coming-out party the following month at the Lombardia Trophy, where she got fourth overall and third in the free skate, beating 2014 Olympic bronze medalist Carolina Kostner of Italy and 2015 world champion Elizaveta Tuktamisheva of Russia in the latter.
"It was definitely a confidence booster and a step in the right direction going to the Grand Prix," Tennell said.
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So isn’t IceNetwork ran by USFS? Or at least directly associated?

I asked this because it seems very unwise to say how one of your country’s top women “stumbled” into a medal and how your women are struggling and have shortcomings. Were that to come from someone else that’s one thing, and even if there’s some truth to it, it just seems very idiotic from IceNetwork to have published the article :shuffle:
 
Sylvia said:
I didn't get that vibe at all from this article.

For example, Hersh wrote:
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Me either I am not a fan of Phil's bandwagon jumping but I didn't see much writing putting down other skaters. Facts are facts and the U.S. ladies for the most part didn't do well in the fall. Ashley did stumble into a medal. I know you can't directly compare score from comp to comp but I think it is safe to say she wouldn't have been top 5/6 in the other GPs.
 
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The article is disingenuous.

"beating 2014 Olympic bronze medalist Carolina Kostner of Italy and 2015 world champion Elizaveta Tuktamisheva of Russia"

Neither of whom are anywhere near the top of their game, and Hersh knows that. Plus she only beat Kostner in the FS, not overall. :shuffle:

The US media is grasping at straws, IMO. A 4th place at a CS and a bronze at one GP is a meteoric rise? Bradie had two very good competitions back to back. That's great! But it hardly makes her the next Kween.
 
vesperholly said:
The article is disingenuous.

"beating 2014 Olympic bronze medalist Carolina Kostner of Italy and 2015 world champion Elizaveta Tuktamisheva of Russia"

Neither of whom are anywhere near the top of their game, and Hersh knows that. Plus she only beat Kostner in the FS, not overall. :shuffle:

The US media is grasping at straws, IMO. A 4th place at a CS and a bronze at one GP is a meteoric rise? Bradie had two very good competitions back to back. That's great! But it hardly makes her the next Kween.
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Did I miss the part where it said she was the next Kwan?
 
vesperholly said:
The article is disingenuous.

"beating 2014 Olympic bronze medalist Carolina Kostner of Italy and 2015 world champion Elizaveta Tuktamisheva of Russia"

Neither of whom are anywhere near the top of their game, and Hersh knows that. Plus she only beat Kostner in the FS, not overall. :shuffle:

The US media is grasping at straws, IMO. A 4th place at a CS and a bronze at one GP is a meteoric rise?
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The article did say beating the said skaters in the latter i.e. Free skate. And usually someone else writes the headline which is usually about catching the reader's attention?

I know it is popular to hate Hersh and IN but I don't find anything in it too different from articles about skaters publishef in their hometown paper.
 
Here is a novel thought... The Kween had to start her winning/medaling streak somewhere. At the time, there wasn't any greater guarantee that she would evolve into The Kween we now know and fondly remember. Now, already, it is clear that Bradie's career isn't going to have the same trajectory (for a variety of reasons, not the least of which are age limits as well as Jr record). Does that mean Bradie doesn't have similar potential to The Kween? Not hardly, but we'll have to see how the next few seasons play out and whether or not she has that same competitive mindset that made The Kween the most decorated US ladies skater ever. Frankly, we haven't seen enough of Bradie to make a good guess about her competitive mindset. And, as much as I hate the never-ending hype the "next" US lady always seems to get, if Bradie can make it through that crucible, well, then, she very likely could be the next great US lady. She certainly has a solid base (though the packaging can stand improvement).
 
Karen-W said:
Here is a novel thought... The Kween had to start her winning/medaling streak somewhere. At the time, there wasn't any greater guarantee that she would evolve into The Kween we now know and fondly remember. Now, already, it is clear that Bradie's career isn't going to have the same trajectory (for a variety of reasons, not the least of which are age limits as well as Jr record). Does that mean Bradie doesn't have similar potential to The Kween? Not hardly, but we'll have to see how the next few seasons play out and whether or not she has that same competitive mindset that made The Kween the most decorated US ladies skater ever. Frankly, we haven't seen enough of Bradie to make a good guess about her competitive mindset. And, as much as I hate the never-ending hype the "next" US lady always seems to get, if Bradie can make it through that crucible, well, then, she very likely could be the next great US lady. She certainly has a solid base (though the packaging can stand improvement).
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To be fair, Carol Heiss is the most decorated U.S. lady ever...
 
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