U.S. Women [#5]: Remain on the Dance Floor

[Willin]

Lindsay needs to hire Babs for a week to come coach and manage the time violations

This was just shocking and idiotic to me. Not one - but both - programs with a time violation? Even if you don't end on a spin it's a good idea to leave a 5 second cushion at the end of the program so you don't get close to that max time limit. But especially ending on a spin where no matter what you're going to want to make sure you have all those rotations in? That's just asking for a time violation. You'd think with such experienced choreographers they'd know better...

Holy score for Ziegler at NHK - wow.

I love Ziegler, but my one BIG caution is that she still does not have a reliable triple-triple combination. She's racking up all the points in the free skate by doing the 3Lz+2A+2A and repeating both lutz and flip (curious to see if anyone will copy). But she will continue to struggle in the short program, as she did here, until she gets a triple-triple consistent. She has tried both 3F+3T and 3Lz+3T this season, and I think her original free skate layout had 3F+3T and 3Lz+2A+2T.

The big challenge for her will be placing in the top 3 (maybe even top 5) at the short program at Nationals, and then not getting buried in the short program at Worlds if she were to qualify.

But I imagine her domestic scores will get a boost after this win. Definitely one of the more random GP results I've seen!

The one good thing is her problem isn't lack of power/room in the jumps for the 3-3: it's the lack of control. It's a lot easier for her to learn that control on her landings than to develop that power.

 

[AYS]

The one good thing is her problem isn't lack of power/room in the jumps for the 3-3: it's the lack of control. It's a lot easier for her to learn that control on her landings than to develop that power.

Paradoxically (sort of), the likeliest key to her getting consistency in the 3/3s might be making the technical tweaks to make the first jump a little smaller so she can have the control and position she needs for the second jump. Often, good 3/3s have the second jump bigger than the first. To do that, she needs to tighten up her in-air position to get quicker rotation with less up and down and relatively more out trajectory for the first jump. She's got a pretty lose rotating position. She and her team may figure out a different way to obtain that consistency, but it's not that unusual for the more compact, fast rotators, to have more consistent 3/3s, like Kristi Yamaguchi used to have.

 

[Karen-W]

Why isn’t Lindsay skating in the exhibition?

She revealed in her post-FS interviews that she sprained her ankle prior to the SP. I'm hoping that not skating in the gala is just precautionary.

 

[BittyBug]

She's got a pretty lose rotating position.

She does, but she doesn't seem to have any problem getting all the way around.

And speaking of Ms. Ziegler, I had no idea that her mother is Patricia Mansfield, who was a similarly powerful skater. Ziegler may be wild, but really like the way she pulls her edges. And she's fast.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Paradoxically (sort of), the likeliest key to her getting consistency in the 3/3s might be making the technical tweaks to make the first jump a little smaller so she can have the control and position she needs for the second jump

Julia Sebestyen used to have huge, explosive first jumps that were as good as anyone’s, and then she’d tack on a 2T that was like a trickle. I wish she had done what you’re suggesting, and I hope Ziegler does, too.

 

[Willin]

One of the things I noticed (harder to see for sure on screen than IRL) is that Ava has very difficult and dynamic jump and spin entries - if she's doing those right by maintaining and not losing speed it doesn't give her as time to slow down before the jump, which can make the jump more wild. A lot of the skaters that do successful 3-3 combos stay still in a straight line for like 1/4-1/2 the ice surface to slow down and lose momentum before the jumping pass. In person you can really see this slowing, but I don't recall Ava having straight line one foot glides that long into any jump.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

As someone who is a big Paul Wylie fan, I genuinely admire your hopefulness.

I like all four of the American women who won Grand Prix medals this season, so I'm bummed that half of them won't go to Worlds.

ETA: @AngelaNikodinovLove, if you haven't listened to the latest podcast episode of The Runthrough, you should listen just to hear them talk about Amber. Especially Adam. I'm pretty sure that Amber listens.

I have not, OK I’ll have to check it out

 

[mtnskater]

Holy cow! Just watched NHK womens free unspoiled. NEVER expected that result. But what a fabulous surprise. Lindsay’s warm up looked so bad I thought for sure she would tank even though she usually is a good competitor. Ava Marie really put it out there with an array of impressive ROTATED jumps. Super exciting! Loved the back stage cameras showing Ava and Lindsay celebrating and hugging.

I’ve long thought since juniors Lindsay and Ava have major potential so hopefully this is just the beginning and a shot of confidence for both.

 

[Trillian]

You all say that nats will be interesting but probably everyone will go back to skating how they usually do and it will just be same old same old

I would argue that when even the resting state is pure chaos, there’s always some entertainment value.

 

[layman]

https://results.isu.org/events/gp2023/gpswomen.htm

Congratulations to Isabeau Levito for qualifying for the Grand Prix Final!

 

[4rkidz]

Just popping in to say this Canadian is quite envious of your USA women this season! Just loved all the medalists on this GP season, yes Nationals will be interesting.

 

[PRlady]

Just popping in to say this Canadian is quite envious of your USA women this season! Just loved all the medalists on this GP season, yes Nationals will be interesting.

Well you have two pairs and three dance teams in the GPF which is much better than we have!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Is anyone else already starting to preplan the snacks they want to have on hand for the US nationals womens competition?

 

[Jammers]

Her challenge will be that she's been skating junior this season internationally and the Worlds & 4CCs selection docs doesn't give any points for JGP scores. She's definitely a bit hamstrung in that regard. Then again, Lindsay doesn't have a Challenger score to include since she had to WD from ACI.

I'm not sure how the US is going to send a team to 4CC considering Nationals ends just 2 days before 4CC starts. You have China to thank for that since they took over the event from another country and moved it up a week.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I'm not sure how the US is going to send a team to 4CC considering Nationals ends just 2 days before 4CC starts. You have China to thank for that since they took over the event from another country and moved it up a week.

OK what’s the background on this? So China has the Grand Prix final and 4cc?

 

[Jammers]

Holy score for Ziegler at NHK - wow.

I love Ziegler, but my one BIG caution is that she still does not have a reliable triple-triple combination. She's racking up all the points in the free skate by doing the 3Lz+2A+2A and repeating both lutz and flip (curious to see if anyone will copy). But she will continue to struggle in the short program, as she did here, until she gets a triple-triple consistent. She has tried both 3F+3T and 3Lz+3T this season, and I think her original free skate layout had 3F+3T and 3Lz+2A+2T.

The big challenge for her will be placing in the top 3 (maybe even top 5) at the short program at Nationals, and then not getting buried in the short program at Worlds if she were to qualify.

But I imagine her domestic scores will get a boost after this win. Definitely one of the more random GP results I've seen!

Hard to figure out how Ziegler struggles with 3-3 combo's with the speed and height she gets on her jumps.

 

[skatingguy]

Hard to figure out how Ziegler struggles with 3-3 combo's with the speed and height she gets on her jumps.

Too much height, and speed on the first jump to get a good landing to do the second.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

She does, but she doesn't seem to have any problem getting all the way around.

And speaking of Ms. Ziegler, I had no idea that her mother is Patricia Mansfield, who was a similarly powerful skater. Ziegler may be wild, but really like the way she pulls her edges. And she's fast.

Gosh. Back in the day I saw Mansfield skate at the 1994 US Nationals in Detroit. How time flies!

 

[Karen-W]

I'm not sure how the US is going to send a team to 4CC considering Nationals ends just 2 days before 4CC starts. You have China to thank for that since they took over the event from another country and moved it up a week.

Nats ends on Sunday. 4CCs practices start on Tuesday but the competition doesn't begin until Thursday. The quickest flight combo I can find on Google leaves Columbus early Monday for Detroit with a 2.5 hr layover and a 16hr flight directly to Shanghai which would have them arriving Tuesday mid-afternoon.

Google Travel

www.google.com

Theoretically, if the USFS was willing to let them skip the Gala, the women, pairs and dance entrants could depart over the weekend as soon as their competitions are complete, but I don't see that happening.

Also, I think you're confusing 2024 4CCs with 2023 4CCs (which the USFS took over from Australia). According to this post - https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...24-future-bids-discussion.108353/post-6261975 - Shanghai was one of two bids for 2024 4CCs as of May 30, 2022 and they were selected to host at the ISU Congress the next month. As of March 2022, per that same thread, 2024 4CCs was still TBC by the ISU. The conflict with it being the week immediately following US Nats is purely on the USFS since Columbus wasn't announced as the host city until January 2023.

OK what’s the background on this? So China has the Grand Prix final and 4cc?

France was originally supposed to host the GPF but they backed out last summer and the CFSA put in a bid for Beijing to host. The ISU took them up on the offer (we have no idea if there were other bids or if Beijing was the only one).

 

[Frau Muller]

Big changes with Ava Marie Ziegler’s coaching team in what seems to be a very short time, as per this bio:

http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00111290.htm

So when did the switch from Steven Rice to the Makarovs (Selezneva/Makarov) happen? Wasn’t Steven Rice Ava’s coach at Finlandia Trophy…as in four seven weeks ago??? The bio makes the switch clear. Tremendous changes & overall look in a very short time.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Dare I say that US women will make Nationals fascinating

How things drift about on the sea of public opinion. After Amber faltered in the SP at Cup of China most of the talk was about how dire things had become for US ladies; that, Isabeau would walk to the finish line of nationals. Now, this week we have oodles of talent. I`m so relieved.

 

[Jarrett]

How things drift about on the sea of public opinion. After Amber faltered in the SP at Cup of China most of the talk was about how dire things had become for US ladies; that, Isabeau would walk to the finish line of nationals. Now, this week we have oodles of talent. I`m so relieved.

lol I wouldnt trust anyone that jumps ship after a single or a couple of events. Nationals will be interesting because I have zero idea what is going to happen.

 

[her grace]

How things drift about on the sea of public opinion. After Amber faltered in the SP at Cup of China most of the talk was about how dire things had become for US ladies; that, Isabeau would walk to the finish line of nationals. Now, this week we have oodles of talent. I`m so relieved.

Levito's still the heavy favorite for nationals. But at least the other placements just got more interesting and unpredictable.

 

[Maximillian]

Yeah, Ziegler's winning NHK without a 3/3, from 5th in SP (i.e. no pressure), and finishing 9th last year is hardly the definitive heralding of a new era, nor was Lindsay's silver in what was ostensibly a carrot-party for the entire field.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Yeah, Ziegler's winning NHK without a 3/3, from 5th in SP (i.e. no pressure), and finishing 9th last year is hardly the definitive heralding of a new era, nor was Lindsay's silver in what was ostensibly a carrot-party for the entire field.

Lol, and I thought I was charming

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Didn’t realize how many today’s US women’s are from a New Jersey festival

we need Amber in there for a little Texas lovin

 

[DreamSkates]

I have not, OK I’ll have to check it out

Can you give a sense of Adam’s comments? Not sure I’ll listen to the podcast.

 

[mtnskater]

Kind of amazed that NBC actually played the National Anthem portion of the medal ceremony for Ava Marie at NHK on the recap show today. Seems like they never did that for Nathan and I can’t recall them doing that for Ilia or Isabeau either.

Johnny said Ava’s jump technique was much improved and that before she would jump up with her arms and then pull them in and now she is better at pulling them in quicker. He also said he loved Lindsay’s “icy cool” and “steely” demeanor.

Ava got a story on CNN’s website too. As did Isabeau and Ilia when they won.

 

[mtnskater]

Yeah, Ziegler's winning NHK without a 3/3, from 5th in SP (i.e. no pressure), and finishing 9th last year is hardly the definitive heralding of a new era, nor was Lindsay's silver in what was ostensibly a carrot-party for the entire field.

Party pooper

 

[jlai]

We have had a slump with ladies for a while. Let’s be happy whenever they have a good day