U.S. Women [#4]: How Dare You

[Evgeniafan]

I think it would be veryyyyy interesting to see what would happen if USFS invited an international panel of judges to Nationals and/or Champs Camp every year. I think things would shake out differently.

Shin Amano on speed dial.

 

[her grace]

Reading the comments on US men and ladies here, as a European I somehow can't help but think that US fans are somehow overestimating what's coming up after their experienced skaters.

I mean if there were up and comers in men and women who were ready to shine at Worlds they'd just have to be technically brilliant with difficult jumps and beat people like Brown or Tennell or Amber Glenn.

But from what I've seen of US ladies last season, after the women who were sent to Worlds there were Starr Andrews (nice but also not very consistent and no difficult jumps), Thorngren (doesn't rotate her jumps either and is inconsistent) and Ziegler (I saw her only once and while she's not unpromising, I also don't think she'd have any chance at Top 10 yet).

Agreed. I think US fans want the second-best and third-best American ladies to be better, but that hypothetical better skater is a myth. Of course, next year, there may be changes to the top 3, but there's no obvious skater to look to who will make that leap. Certainly not any world-beater juniors aging in. Here's how the American ladies fared on the Season Best list through the top 50.

*not age-eligible in 2023-2024

6

Isabeau LEVITO

USA

ISU GP MK John Wilson Trophy 2022

13/11/2022

215.74

S

14

Bradie TENNELL

USA

ISU Four Continents Championships 2023

10/02/2023

199.91

S

17

Amber GLENN

USA

ISU GP Skate America 2022

23/10/2022

197.61

S

19

Lindsay THORNGREN

USA

ISU CS 54th Golden Spin of Zagreb 2022

09/12/2022

196.48

S

28

Starr ANDREWS

USA

ISU GP Skate Canada International 2022

29/10/2022

191.26

S

32

Audrey SHIN

USA

ISU GP NHK Trophy 2022

19/11/2022

189.00

S

35

Ava Marie ZIEGLER

USA

ISU GP Skate Canada International 2022

29/10/2022

186.76

S

36

Soho LEE*

USA

ISU JGP Riga Cup 2022

09/09/2022

185.92

J

43

Mia KALIN*

USA

ISU JGP Baltic Cup 2022

07/10/2022

177.71

J

48

Hanna HARRELL

USA

ISU CS Lombardia Trophy 2022

17/09/2022

175.55

S

 

[gkelly]

Certainly not any world-beater juniors aging in.

Yes.

Because of the change in the age rules, nobody ages in next year or the year after. If they weren't isu 15 for 2023 season, they won't be isu 17 until at least 2026 season.

There are some current 15 year olds maybe 16 now if their birthday has happened who were age eligible this year but skated junior. They could move up to senior next year or the year after, or do both, because they'll have 3 years of being eligible for both under the transition rules.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I wish Liu had wanted to continue, but she didn't, so I'm glad she's doing what she wants.

 

[Karen-W]

Audrey Shin announced her SP music for next season will be to the Pina soundtrack - https://www.instagram.com/p/CqN--25Dh9x/

 

[her grace]

Yes.

Because of the change in the age rules, nobody ages in next year or the year after. If they weren't isu 15 for 2023 season, they won't be isu 17 until at least 2026 season.

There are some current 15 year olds maybe 16 now if their birthday has happened who were age eligible this year but skated junior. They could move up to senior next year or the year after, or do both, because they'll have 3 years of being eligible for both under the transition rules.

Yes, I meant it more as there aren't any American skaters who dominated on the junior level who are old enough who will be moving up. Soho Lee was the only medalist on the JGP circuit and she's too young. Kalin, the quadster is too young. Of the junior world team members, both Josephine Lee and the aforementioned Soho Lee are too young. Clare Seo is age-eligible for seniors, and she was the top American at Junior Worlds behind every Japanese and Korean skater there and behind China's An and Switzerland's Repond. She could be a factor on the domestic scene, and will need to clean up her jump rotations and gain consistency to make a big splash internationally.

 

[Karen-W]

Yes, I meant it more as there aren't any American skaters who dominated on the junior level who are old enough who will be moving up. Soho Lee was the only medalist on the JGP circuit and she's too young. Kalin, the quadster is too young. Of the junior world team members, both Josephine Lee and the aforementioned Soho Lee are too young. Clare Seo is age-eligible for seniors, and she was the top American at Junior Worlds behind every Japanese and Korean skater there and behind China's An and Switzerland's Repond. She could be a factor on the domestic scene, and will need to clean up her jump rotations and gain consistency to make a big splash internationally.

Agreed. If there were any senior age-eligible US women who were ready to make a splash internationally last season, they would have. The ranks are pretty thin. There's some potential should Ziegler and Thorngren get themselves sorted out, but I'm not holding my breath on any of the US women we have being the combination necessary to regain 3 spots next year.

 

[Frau Muller]

Shin Amano on speed dial.

Send him to Champs Camp!

 

[layman]

Agreed. If there were any senior age-eligible US women who were ready to make a splash internationally last season, they would have. The ranks are pretty thin. There's some potential should Ziegler and Thorngren get themselves sorted out, but I'm not holding my breath on any of the US women we have being the combination necessary to regain 3 spots next year.

...and yet we had two competitors at Nationals (2023) who both have nearly perfect technique and who have medaled against the top Russians...Gracie Gold and Ting Cui. I was impressed with the quality of their skating at Nationals (though the programs were not yet perfect) and I think both Gracie and Ting have what it takes to be Champions (again). I hope that they continue.

 

[tony]

...and yet we had two competitors at Nationals (2023) who both have nearly perfect technique and who have medaled against the top Russians...Gracie Gold and Ting Cui. I was impressed with the quality of their skating at Nationals (though the programs were not yet perfect) and I think both Gracie and Ting have what it takes to be Champions (again). I hope that they continue.

But they are both if, if, if skaters. I love Gracie's comeback story as much as the next person, but she's typically good for ~3 triples in a free skate before it all starts to fall apart, and it's been that way for quite a few seasons now. Her flip is done on a severe outside edge that should be called a full 'e' - so nearly perfect technique it is not. She's also taken her time in getting the technique back and doesn't have the speed, ice coverage, or the overall program complexity that she once had.

Ting Cui is a big what if, but I think at the moment she's focused on other things as opposed to being a top champion in figure skating. And she doesn't really have a flip or Lutz for now-- so, also not really a serious contender.

 

[Jammers]

...and yet we had two competitors at Nationals (2023) who both have nearly perfect technique and who have medaled against the top Russians...Gracie Gold and Ting Cui. I was impressed with the quality of their skating at Nationals (though the programs were not yet perfect) and I think both Gracie and Ting have what it takes to be Champions (again). I hope that they continue.

Gracie is never getting back to where she was 8 years ago no matter how hard she works at it and also is nearly 28 and Ting missed too much time over 3 seasons with injuries plus she goes to college now so i doubt she's really looking to go back to full time competing. Ting is one of those what if stories i really thought she was going to make a run at making the Olympic team in 2022 after her 2019 season when she finished 5th at Nationals in her first time skating as a Senior and winning the Bronze medal at Jr Worlds and even took home a Silver medal at a Senior B at the Tallinn Trophy in her first international skating against senior skaters. Her biggest problem was being a nervous competitor but she might have been the most talented skating in the field that year at Nationals and looking at who did go to the Olympics she absolutely could have passed Karen and Mariah and Amber in the next 3 years.

 

[Coco]

I thought Ting had a really bad ankle injury that wouldn't heal?

 

[Marco]

Agreed, the judges and technical panels they see at home should be the toughest they see all season. It looks like we are heading into some lean years, so no better time than the present to implement "the correction" and make that happen.

Exactly. Bradie's jumps aren't any better than Lindsay's. They both deserve UR calls but Bradie seldomly got them at Nationals which is unfair because she would have made the world team anyways but probably with a more realistic mindset. Bradie has been getting UR calls from international callers for a few seasons now, and US callers / USFS need to wake up.

 

[Debbie S]

I thought Ting had a really bad ankle injury that wouldn't heal?

That's correct, she was injured in the spring and then again in the fall of 2019. The injury did heal eventually, it was just a long process. At this point, she is training but also in college full-time (and competing in collegiate comps in addition to elite), and seems to be enjoying where she is. Per her IG, it sounds like she does plan to continue competing next season.

 

[Marco]

Off topic, but I just wanted to say that Ting's skating at her prime was absolutely stunning. She may not have her jumps back yet and may have moved on in terms of priority, but I will always root for her.

 

[layman]

But they are both if, if, if skaters. I love Gracie's comeback story as much as the next person, but she's typically good for ~3 triples in a free skate before it all starts to fall apart, and it's been that way for quite a few seasons now. Her flip is done on a severe outside edge that should be called a full 'e' - so nearly perfect technique it is not. She's also taken her time in getting the technique back and doesn't have the speed, ice coverage, or the overall program complexity that she once had.

Ting Cui is a big what if, but I think at the moment she's focused on other things as opposed to being a top champion in figure skating. And she doesn't really have a flip or Lutz for now-- so, also not really a serious contender.

I just wanted to point out the positive...after so much lamentation about Starr's "1980's jump content," Isabeau's Eteri style jump technique that will fail the minute she starts to grow, Bradie, Audrey Shin's, Clare Seo's and Lindsay Thorngren's underrotations, and Amber Glenn's inconsistency.

Lip aside, Gracie gets those jumps up high in the air and they are all fully rotated. Her edging and flow are superior. Her spins look great. I think she has it all. She's just missing a little of the confidence that she once had.

As for Ting, I think she has matured beautifully. She has the flip and lutz back (though not yet consistently). Her spins, edging and flow seem to be even more advanced than her previous and only other appearance at (Senior) US Nationals when she debuted in 2019.

I take comfort from the fact that wonderful technique, as we have seen from Elizaveta Tuktamysheva, Carolina Kostner and Denise Beillmann, will take you a long, long way in this sport.

 

[BittyBug]

I'm rooting for Gracie but she has not regained her prior speed, which isn't surprising because that's often the first thing to go with age. She used to blaze across the ice, now she sometimes crawls. I'm not sure whether she can return to her prior form, but I'd love to see it.

 

[Jammers]

Am much as i love Gracie she has never regained the speed or power she once had and her spins which were once as fast and centered as anyone in the world are not anything close to what they once were either. It's obvious those things are never coming back to what her prime was a decade ago

 

[ice coverage]

"SKATE + math = fun"

This front-page headline jumped out at me from Skokie Valley SC's photos of a recent newspaper article about "SKATE for girls," an innovative non-profit founded by SVSC member Mayumi Suzue-Pan.
A junior in high school and leader of her school's math team, Mayumi also is a USFS Double Gold Medalist as well as skating coach.

Per SVSC's Instagram caption:

"SKATE for girls combines math and skating to empower young women to succeed in the classroom and the ice. Mayumi hopes that by getting young girls involved in mathematics, she can decrease the gender gap in STEM fields. On the other side she hopes to dismantle the misconception that you have to be a certain size or way to be in figure skating."​

Excerpt from the long article:

"SKATE, or Solving Kinesthetically and Transforming Education, is a six-week course set to begin on Jan. 15 for girls from fifth to eighth grade. Sessions will be on Sunday afternoon with 30 minutes of off-ice movement followed by 45 minutes on the ice where the math concepts are brought in. Classes wrap up with 45 minutes of math tutoring.​

The program would end with a skating performance for parents where students can show off all the skating skills they have learned."​

ETA:​

Mayumi's website says that the math concept of the week is introduced during the 30 minutes of off-ice movement.​

https://www.skateforgirls.org/_files/ugd/405981_f4034ea0a9df42008cf6f994c43b2276.pdf

The full article is on Instagram today: https://www.instagram.com/p/CmJ3pqArItz/

SKATE for Girls is free of charge to all students that attend the program, but donations are appreciated.
More here: https://www.skateforgirls.org/

Update to post from Dec 2022:

Today USFS has a long article about SKATE for Girls, the program founded by 17-year-old Mayumi Suzue-Pan "to close the gender gap in STEM by teaching math through figure skating lessons", "targeted for beginning skaters from sixth through eighth grade."

"... After several months of preparation, from building a website to securing ice time, recruiting students and developing a curriculum, S.K.A.T.E. for Girls held its first six-week session in January and February at the Centennial Ice Rink in Wilmette, Illinois. The inaugural session included both on-ice and off-ice skills lessons, which allowed participants to apply their newfound courage and confidence in the classroom.

“When it’s a free program, no one is really committed, so I knew it could be really dicey as far as turnout,” Suzue-Pan said. “But most kids showed up, and I was able to maintain everybody for the whole six weeks, which was really awesome. And everyone seemed to really enjoy the programming, and the opportunity to learn both skills side-by-side." "

A new session will start in May.
And when Mayumi heads to college, she plans to bring SKATE for Girls wherever she goes. (She also will compete in collegiate skating.)

Helping it All Add Up | U.S. Figure Skating

www.usfigureskating.org

 

[Sylvia]

Keira Hilbelink, who turned 12 this past October, was one of 6 U.S. girls who were selected after Nationals and USFS' High Performance National Development Camp to participate in the ISU Advanced Novice (singles) Workshop held in conjunction with Four Continents in Colorado Springs. The others were Annika Chao (9th in Junior at Nationals), Athena Huang (qualified for the ISP as a novice), Emilia Nemirovsky, Cleo Park (had the highest Novice women's NQS total score before qualifying season) and Jessica Jurka (7th in Junior at Nationals) who just won the Adv. Novice gold in her international debut at Challenge Cup

Advanced Novice Girls (Team USA debuts for both at Coupe du Printemps in Luxembourg):
BRONZE Athena HUANG USA 108.21 2 6
4 Keira HILBELINK USA 107.84 4 4

ETA: Athena had the highest PCS in SP & 2nd highest in FS as well as the highest averaged score for Skating Skills in both segments.

As of April 3, Annika Chao, who turned 13 this past October, and Cleo Park (don't know her birthdate) have been assigned to make their Team USA debuts in the Adv. Novice event at Mexico Cup in Querétaro City, May 18-21 (final international of the 2022-23 season that was added recently to USFS' International Assignments page): https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/sports/2022/7/25/2022-23-international-assignments-and-results

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I’m so happy for all of you US women fans that you get one more chance to see Isabeau’s short program and Amber’s free program again.

What a treat for all of us.

 

[Sylvia]

USFS' International Selection Pool was updated recently and lists 44 women right now [Nationals/4CC/Junior Worlds/Worlds placement(s) included below]:

Competed Senior at 2023 Nationals and/or Sectionals (or WD due to injury), competed senior internationally in 2022-23; * = U.S. senior level women still ISU Junior age-eligible in 2023-24:
Starr Andrews [S4]
*Alena Budko
*Elsa Cheng [S16]
Ting Cui [S12]
Alexa Gasparotto [new addition to ISP; S17]
Amber Glenn [S3/4CC/W12]
Gracie Gold [S8]
Hanna Harrell [S-wd after SP]
Jill Heiner
Sonja Hilmer [S10]
Gabriella Izzo [S11; plans to switch her focus to pairs acc. to her March 19th Instagram post]
*Josephine Lee [S5/JW19]
*Isabeau Levito [S1/4CC-wd after SP/W4]
*Hannah Lofton
*Nicole Park
Maryn Pierce
*Clare Seo [S7/JW8]
Audrey Shin [S13]
Bradie Tennell [S2/4CC/W15]
*Lindsay Thorngren [S6]
*Kate Wang
Lindsay Wang [new addition to ISP; S14]
*Ava Ziegler [S9]

ISU Junior age-eligible in 2023-24 (Sectional placement included for some):
Sonia Baram [J8/M-J5]
Mia Barghout [J12]
Juliana Barshay [J; did not compete at Eastern Sectional]
Annika Chao [new addition to ISP; J9/P-N1]
Ela Cui [J11/E-N1]
Sarah Everhardt [J13]
Lilah Gibson [new addition to ISP; J16]
Hannah Herrera [J6]
Logan Higase-Chen [J10]
Athena Huang [P-N5]
Jiaying Ellyse Johnson [new addition to ISP; M-N5]
Jessica Jurka [new addition to ISP; J7/M-N1]
Mia Kalin [P-J5]
Teryn Kim [new addition to ISP; P-N4]
Katie Krafchik [J5]
Soho Lee [J1/JW15]
Elyce Lin-Gracey [J3]
Cleo Park [new addition to ISP; P-N3]
Phoebe Stubblefield [J-wd after SP]
Sherry Zhang [J4]
Adele Zheng [J-wd/M-J1]

November 16, 2022:

USFS' International Selection Pool (ISP) currently competing women's status updates after Sectionals with placements included where applicable:

SENIOR (these 16 have qualified for 2023 Nationals + Alexa Gasparotto M2 & Lindsay Wang P3):
Starr Andrews (Bye)
Karen Chen (Bye)*
Ting Cui E2
Elsa Cheng M1
Amber Glenn (Bye)
Gracie Gold (Bye)
Hanna Harrell P2
Sonja Hilmer M3
Gabriella Izzo (Bye)
Josephine Lee P1
Michelle Lee P4 - *note: qualifies if Karen does not use her bye
Isabeau Levito (Bye)
Clare Seo (Bye)
Audrey Shin (Bye)
Bradie Tennell (Bye)
Lindsay Thorngren (Bye)
Ava Ziegler E1

Next 2 alternates based on total score after Michelle Lee:
Emilia Murdock M4 151.12
Alex Evans P5 151.08

Did not qualify for Nationals:
Gwen Bloesch E5
Alena Budko (injured & did not compete at Pacs)
Finley Hawk (did not compete at Mids - injured?)
Jill Heiner E4
Tia Hilbelink (injured & did not compete at Pacs)
Rena Ikenishi (confirmed via Instagram story that an injury prevented her from competing at Easterns)
Hannah Lofton (did not compete at Mids - injured?)
Audrey Lu (did not compete in a NQS; 2nd at Collegiate Champs & a recent addition to the ISP)
Nicole Park P7
Maryn Pierce M6
Paige Rydberg (did not compete in a NQS; 1st at Collegiate Champs)
Kate Wang (did not compete at Pacs - injured?)
Wren Warne-Jacobsen M5

JUNIOR (these 11 in the ISP have qualified for 2023 Nationals + Lilah Gibson M3 & Krystal Edwards E4):
Mia Barghout E1
Ela Cui E-Novice, 1st
Sarah Everhardt E3
Hannah Herrera P4
Logan Higase-Chen M2
Katie Krafchik E2
Soho Lee P1
Elyce Lin-Gracey P3
Phoebe Stubblefield M4
Sherry Zhang P2
Adele Zheng M1

Did not qualify for Nationals:
Sonia Baram M5 (qualified for Nationals in Senior Pairs; JGP Final in pairs next)
Juliana Barshay (a recent addition to ISP; did not compete at Easterns - injured?)
Hazel Collier (did not compete in a NQS)
Giselle Graves (did not compete at Easterns - injured?)
Athena Huang P-Novice, 5th (likely will be invited to the High Performance National Development Camp due to the competitiveness & depth of the Pacs field)
Mia Kalin P5
Ellie Kam (did not compete in a NQS; qualified for Nationals in Senior Pairs - eta: refer to Karen's post below)
Abigail Ross (did not compete in a NQS; focusing on college)
Katie Shen (did not compete in a NQS; invited to Champs Champ in August as part of USFS' "Emerging Athlete" program)

 

[Allskate]

Congrats to Amber and Isabeau for not making any major mistakes in the WTT SP in a competition that had lots of mistakes. (I love Kaori, but I have no idea how Kaori was able get that TES and not get her combo jumps called under.)

Amber had some problems with the combo, but good for her for holding it together and landing the loop. She realized that she hadn't had the greatest combo, but it didn't affect her performance.

I think that was the wonkiest 3lutz/3toe combo we've seen from Isabeau in a while. It is impressive that she was able to land it. She usually does. But, I do hope she is able to improve her lutz in the off-season. It was nice to see her having fun in the kiss and cry after her program.

 

[skatingguy]

(I love Kaori, but I have no idea how Kaori was able get that TES and not get her combo jumps called under.)

Both jumps in the combo were called q.

 

[Sylvia]

@Allskate you should join us in the WTT Day 1 pbp thread. I posted about Amber's SP TES there just now (Kiss & Cry forum is open to all now): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2023-world-team-trophy-day-1.110650/page-8#post-6422905

ETA: Peacock's WTT Day 1 replay is available for 2 days.

 

[Allskate]

Both jumps in the combo were called q.

Yes, I know. I don't see how they were both just qs, especially the second jump. I would have called it an under-rotation. That combo was a total mess for reasons that go beyond the fall. Her jumps generally are beautiful, but I think she was given a break here.

@Allskate you should join us in the WTT Day 1 pbp thread. I posted about Amber's SP TES there just now (Kiss & Cry forum is open to all now): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2023-world-team-trophy-day-1.110650/page-8#post-6422905

Thanks, but I'm going to bed. I had planned to watch tomorrow. I hope Peacock has the rest up on delay.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Amber had some problems with the combo, but good for her for holding it together and landing the loop.

@Sylvia set me a fax saying she basically lost points on levels on her spins which is odd her for her. Her jump combination basically was fine in points

 

[BittyBug]

I love Kaori, but I have no idea how Kaori was able get that TES and not get her combo jumps called under.

Probably the same way Jason Brown was able to not have his egregious flutz called e.

 

[skatingguy]

Yes, I know. I don't see how they were both just qs, especially the second jump. I would have called it an under-rotation. That combo was a total mess for reasons that go beyond the fall. Her jumps generally are beautiful, but I think she was given a break here.

Two-time reigning World Champions don't underrotate their jumps. They also don't have edge issues, or at least that's what the technical panels have consistently told us. Getting the 'q' on each jump is a pretty big ding from the technical panel to the reigning World Champion at a made for television event.

 

[Coco]

I haven't been following closely, but was surprised at Mai's huge advantage over Amber in PCS. Don't get it.