U.S. Women [#4]: How Dare You

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greenapple said:
For me, Josephine Lee was the star of the show in the women's free. She should be a definite for the World Junior team one would think.
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Agreed. She did the JGP this fall, so I think she and Soho Lee are no-brainers for the JW team. The only question is the 3rd spot and, honestly, if she's open to it, I'd send Thorngren. Japan only has 2 spots this year and Korea has 3, so a top 10 finish, maybe even a top 5 finish and some WS points is well within her reach.
 
Karen-W said:
So, now that we know the Women's results, both Senior and Junior, who would you assign to Worlds, 4CCs and Jr Worlds?

Top 10 Sr Women -
118Isabeau Levito, SC Of Southern New Jersey173.781149.55223.33
217Bradie Tennell, Skokie Valley SC273.762139.36213.12
315Amber Glenn, Dallas FSC468.963138.48207.44
416Starr Andrews, Los Angeles FSC368.977119.27188.24
57Josephine Lee, All Year FSC1155.604132.08187.68
614Lindsay Thorngren, SC of New York662.645124.55187.19
710Clare Seo, Broadmoor SC761.489114.12175.60
813Gracie Gold, IceWorks SC567.4411106.54173.98
912Ava Ziegler, SC of New York861.0910106.61167.70
104Sonja Hilmer, Centennial SC1351.168115.33166.49

Top 4 Jr Women -
115Soho Lee, Glacier Falls FSC166.341114.80181.14
218Keira Hilbelink, Portland ISC555.052112.94167.99
319Elyce Lin-Gracey, Pasadena FSC265.577100.00165.57
414Sherry Zhang, Glacier Falls FSC361.38999.70161.08

Keira Hilbelink is too young for juniors internationally, while both Josephine Lee and Lindsay Thorngren are junior age-eligible still and have the junior TES mins. Josephine Lee does not have any senior TES mins.

I'm not sure what the USFS' strategy will be, but I can see an argument being made to try and maximize WS points by leaving either Levito or Tennell off the 4CCs team and send Andrews instead since she is the only other US woman with a GP medal and a 190+ score on the SB list. I'd probably let Isabeau stay home and get Bradie in front of an ISU Championship panel once before Worlds, but Bradie might want to get back to France to train instead of staying in the US another 2 weeks.

My teams would be as follows:
Worlds - Levito, Tennell, Glenn; 1st alt - Andrews, 2nd alt - Thorngren, 3rd alt - Zeigler (neither Seo nor Gold have the Worlds TES mins)
4CCs - 1 of Levito or Tennell, Glenn, Andrews; 1st alt - Gold, 2nd alt - Zeigler, 3rd alt - Hilmer
Jr Worlds - J. Lee, Thorngren, S. Lee; 1st alt - Seo, 2nd alt - Lin-Gracey, 3rd alt - Zhang
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for me this is the clearest case I’ve seen in a time for all of the teams

worlds and 4 cc. Isabeau, Bradie and Amber. And I would have all of them do 4cc sinse it’s Isabeau and Amber’s first time at the rodeo and Bradies two year absence

Junior world is clear from as well. Josephine, Lindsay and Soho
 
AngieNikodinovLove said:
for me this is the clearest case I’ve seen in a time for all of the teams

worlds and 4 cc. Isabeau, Bradie and Amber. And I would have all of them do 4cc sinse it’s Isabeau and Amber’s first time at the rodeo and Bradies two year absence

Junior world is clear from as well. Josephine, Lindsay and Soho
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Hah. 4CCs is like Jr Worlds when it comes to attendance and pressure. They're both going to be walking into the lion's den, so to speak, when they get to Saitama for Worlds.
 
Baby Yoda On Skates said:
I'd send Bradie to 4Cs. She's been out for so long and her fall season was a work in progress. Getting her in front of an international panel on home ice would be advantageous in building back her rep.
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That's a good point. I wish U.S. Nationals was held a little earlier so that there was a little more time between Nationals and 4CC. It would be a pain for Bradie to fly back to France and then turn around and fly back, but I suppose she could just find a place to train in the U.S. between now and 4CC.
 
Allskate said:
That's a good point. I wish U.S. Nationals was held a little earlier so that there was a little more time between Nationals and 4CC. It would be a pain for Bradie to fly back to France and then turn around and fly back, but I suppose she could just find a place to train in the U.S. between now and 4CC.
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Most likely Boston - that's where she was training the past week. The only question would be whether or not Benoit wants to stay here too, I'd think. Three weeks away from your family when you have a toddler is a big ask. I'm not sure it would be worth it to fly back and forth, but I do agree that 4CCs is more of a necessity for her than it is for Isabeau.
 
This was the first FS event I’ve watched live and fully in a while. I’ve mostly been keeping up via replays and what not.

Nothing against the skaters mentioned,what stuck out to me was how much Tennell’s silver here reminded me of Czisny’s silver in 2012. Many things were overlooked. I think the technical panel and judges are doing her a disservice by doing that.

I agree that Josephine Lee had a great LP. She should’ve been a close 2nd if not won the LP portion. Best technical performance of the night.

Levito was the rightful winner. I’m hoping that she has good outings and 4CC and worlds.

given the international field right now I think the U.S. women will be alright, I just wish that the technical panel actually did their jobs and let the skaters know that they need to fine tune before 4cc/worlds
 
Alysa Liu was in the SAP center this afternoon officially signing autographs. Glad USFS lured her back to make an appearance. The line was consistently long. I would not have recognized her had she just walked by. She has long blondish hair and very dramatic makeup, including dark red lipstick and a hat with cat ears. Looks like she still has her braces on. Fun to see that she hasn’t disappeared completely.
 
mtnskater said:
Alysa Liu was in the SAP center this afternoon officially signing autographs. Glad USFS lured her back to make an appearance. The line was consistently long. I would not have recognized her had she just walked by. She has long blondish hair and very dramatic makeup, including dark red lipstick and a hat with cat ears. Looks like she still has her braces on. Fun to see that she hasn’t disappeared completely.
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www.instagram.com

Grace Song on Instagram: "Kicked off Day 2 of the 2023 US Figure Skating Championships with the Senior Men’s Short Program and the Senior Ladies Free Skate. Also, stopped by the Skate and Sculpt booth to take a photo with the 2014 Olympian Ashley Wag

7 Likes, 2 Comments - Grace Song (@gracesong95148) on Instagram: "Kicked off Day 2 of the 2023 US Figure Skating Championships with the Senior Men’s Short Program and the Senior Ladies Free Skate. Also, stopped by the Skate and Sculpt booth to take a photo with the 2014 Olympian Ashley Wagner...
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com

In case anyone is wondering.
 
Right now, Levito is 8th in WS before Euros results, with Sherbakova not eligible and You not assigned to Worlds.

Those within reach of Levito (2605) with Euros/4C's points are:
  • Kurakova, needs 447, 6th or higher
  • Schizas, needs 721, 2nd or higher (already has two slots filled)
  • Schott, needs 677, 3rd or higher (already has two slots filled)
  • Gubanova, needs 618, 3rd or higher
  • Petrokina, needs 683, 2nd or higher
I realize Women gonna Women, but there's a decent chance that at least one of those things will happen, so Levito would need 4C's points to stay in the final SP starting group. Which may or may not be a good thing for first Worlds.

I think in earlier "do they have minimums/skaters" discussions for Worlds, there should be 16 or 17 Women in the "skating later" group/

Amber Glenn has 1465 points (WS 23), but after you remove Scherbakova, You, Trusova, Shin, Thorngren, Valieva, Chen, Tuktamysheva, Higuchi, and Bell, that puts her just below the cut for the penultimate group without 4C's points at 13th. Without 4C's points, there are at least three skaters who should, barring disaster, pass her, and there would be the risk of being bumped down into the "starting earlier" pool. With 4C's points, she should be in the penultimate group.
  • Taljegard, needs 404, 7th or higher plus the SP minimum
  • Repond, needs 236, 13th or higher
  • Feigin, needs 391, 8th or higher
  • C. Kim, needs 297, 11th or higher
  • van Zundert, needs 475, 6th or higher
  • Mikutina, needs 653, 3rd or higher
  • Gutmann (if she's ITA's Worlds entry) needs 348, 9th or higher, plus the SP minimum; Pezzeta's the only ITA woman I see with both minimums
  • Sauter, need 409, 7th or higher, plus the SP minimum
  • Ting, needs 444, 7th or higher, plus the SP minimum
  • Grm, needs 492, 6th or higher
  • Lang, needs 636, 3rd or higher

Tennell is sitting with 823 points and will get full, not incremental points from 4C's. If she weren't assigned, she'd certainly be in the "skating earlier" group. With Sakamoto, Mihara, Watanabe, Kim, Lee, and Levito at 4C's, even if she skates like she did tonight, it is unlikely she will make it out of the "skating earlier" group, because nearly everyone above will earn something, even if they don't pass Glenn and although they might not end up with the 32-point minimum in the end. Perhaps the ISU will relent and change the minimum to 31 instead of 32, in which case Sauter, Gutman, and Taljegard will be in, and Ting has a shot at 4C's to earn higher than 30.40.
 
Karen-W said:
Agreed. She did the JGP this fall, so I think she and Soho Lee are no-brainers for the JW team. The only question is the 3rd spot and, honestly, if she's open to it, I'd send Thorngren. Japan only has 2 spots this year and Korea has 3, so a top 10 finish, maybe even a top 5 finish and some WS points is well within her reach.
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Thorngren is well past Jrs, IMO. Keep her at Sr events from now on.
 
Karen-W said:
Jackie Wong just tweeted out the Worlds and 4CCs assignments - Jr Worlds won't be named until after the USFS' Jr Worlds Singles Camp.

4CCs - Levito, Tennell, Glenn; 1st alt - Andrews, 2nd alt - Thorngren, 3rd alt - Gold

Worlds - Levito, Tennell, Glenn; 1st alt - Andrews, 2nd alt - Thorngren, 3rd alt - Zeigler
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WOWEE!!! FIRST CLASS TREATMENT for Four Cs, at least for US women. Hats off, USFS! Levito, Tennell and Glenn all the way. 🇺🇸
 
Frau Muller said:
Thorngren is well past Jrs, IMO. Keep her at Sr events from now on.
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Same was true for Starr Andrews 3 years ago and yet she was sent to Jr Worlds - where she finished a respectable 6th. I get your POV, but WS points and placements are critical. Lindsay has the 6th highest SB of the women who will be or could be assigned to Jr Worlds. I'd argue that without her, the US will certainly lose a spot at Jr Worlds for 2024 and could be in danger of losing critical JGP spots as well.
 
Karen-W said:
Same was true for Starr Andrews 3 years ago and yet she was sent to Jr Worlds - where she finished a respectable 6th. I get your POV, but WS points and placements are critical. Lindsay has the 6th highest SB of the women who will be or could be assigned to Jr Worlds. I'd argue that without her, the US will certainly lose a spot at Jr Worlds for 2024 and could be in danger of losing critical JGP spots as well.
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I agree on this. Soho and Josephine are very young (13 and 14!) with limited experience. The other contenders (Seo, Lin-Gracey, Zhang) have been pretty uneven this season. All this means a lot of risk and pressure on untested kids to maintain junior world and JGP spots. I'd say that Lindsay going would actually be more important for USFS/future spots than for Lindsay herself.

I think Ziegler should be considered as well but she would have to skate way better at the camp than at nationals. Since nationals performance is the number 1 criteria, I don't expect her to named to the team but I wouldn't be surprised to see her as an alternate and hope she will be.

Junior worlds selection criteria: https://www.usfigureskating.org/sit...unior Team Selection Procedures - 6.21.22.pdf
 
Karen-W said:
Same was true for Starr Andrews 3 years ago and yet she was sent to Jr Worlds - where she finished a respectable 6th. I get your POV, but WS points and placements are critical. Lindsay has the 6th highest SB of the women who will be or could be assigned to Jr Worlds. I'd argue that without her, the US will certainly lose a spot at Jr Worlds for 2024 and could be in danger of losing critical JGP spots as well.
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Eh, no. Lindsay has “blossomed out” since the last year. Very mature physique. Last night was a miracle in eking out content.
 
Isabeau - The good and and the bad: Great attitude; love the confidence [paraphrased] - I knew I would win if I skated clean! She is a performer and bendy a la Sasha, but can jump and rotate. How refreshing! OTOH, she has a strange jump technique. She reminds me of an Eteri skater who muscles the jumps (which I criticize) and I have to wonder how long her jumps will last once she grows more. Still, unlike an Eteri skater, she smiles, radiates, and is pleasant to watch for her performative qualities.

Bradie - I love her determination and I get the feeling that she is a US woman who is more likely to hit than miss on the jumps. Her style and choreo is unique and quite watchable IMO. Dependable.

Amber - Best US jumper since Gracie circa 2016. The silly mistakes on the easier jumps though, UGH.

Andrews - I was never a fan, but nice to see what a fighter she is. I like the fact that she went for the 3F, but she needs the full arsenal to be competitive.

Thorngren - I like her and her determination

I like the fact that the women didn't leave everything on the floor here. I think it means that they are likely to have more gas in the tank for Worlds.
 
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