U.S. Women [#2]: The Unbearable Lightness of Beijing

[Coco]

Me too - I think there should be random reviews for that reason. It's easy to see what you are looking for or what you expect to see. They should review jumps they weren't suspecting, because < or q can be hard to see in real time if you aren't expecting it.

I had the perception that Karen was more likely to < or get more negative GOE as the program wore on...but that doesn't seem to be the case.

The only re-arrangement that might make sense is to switch the opening 2a with either the solo 3loop or 3loop-2t. The loop combo is currently her last jumping pass and she has only even managed the 2t part of it once this year in three competitions. This would be watering down in a small sense as it would lower her base value slightly. And it is too late for her and other US ladies (cough - Gold) to get reliable 3s3t combos and use their beautiful 3z as their solo triple for the SP. Maximizing GOE is just as critical as maximizing base value. I feel that US ladies' coaches sometimes strategize as though base value is the only thing that matters.

 

[thvu]

At the risk of opening a whole can of worms and an attack thread aimed at me... I do wish the tech callers would apply equal objective scrutiny fairly across the board to all skaters, not just to some based on subjective reputation.

I have literally watched technical panels review a jump that was short of rotation by more than 1/2, and then apply "q" as the call. Completely bizarre.

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe every skater should be subjected to an automatic review for all jump elements. It'll take longer to get the scores, but accuracy in sport is the most important thing. But as @thvu said, they do sometimes review and still give a "q" for a jump that is more than 1/2 short. Sometimes, in those koola king type of videos, I have to say I don't always agree on "where" the jump took off and when it "landed" even in their super slow-mo.

 

[kwanfan1818]

When the ISU issued DVDs on jumps, Tatiana Maiinina was the exemplar for the Lutz.

 

[VGThuy]

I wish they had the guts to use Tonya Harding. She'll forever have my favorite Lutz:

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

When the ISU issued DVDs on jumps, Tatiana Maiinina was the exemplar for the Lutz.

Who?

Regardless,this entire "under rotated" jumps penalty is a disastrous debacle without any quantitative basis in reality. The judges are mired in crooked politics,largely helmed by a country who shouldn't even be allowed to compete at the Olympic Games.

-BB

 

[meggonzo]

I wish they had the guts to use Tonya Harding. She'll forever have my favorite Lutz:

That video doesn't even contain two of my favorites!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsPS1bhAj6c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ9jDIt7_mA

 

[Marco]

Unfortunately, Karen is at the mercy of whoever is the technical caller.

If there would be a strict caller at Nationals, Bradie, Alysa and Lindsay would be equally susceptible to damaging calls. Amber and Mariah would probably be more advantaged relatively.

 

[euterpe]

Mariah gets her share of carrots too, especially on 3/3s.

 

[On My Own]

I have literally watched technical panels review a jump that was short of rotation by more than 1/2, and then apply "q" as the call. Completely bizarre.

When?

 

[Jammers]

At this point what the US ladies should be trying to do is skate as clean as they can and in the case of someone like Amber forget about doing a triple axel. Come Nationals they aren't going to need to be doing quads or 3axels like the Russian ladies will need to do to make their Olympics teams so skating clean could get you on the podium since the competition is not as strong.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

That video doesn't even contain two of my favorites!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsPS1bhAj6c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ9jDIt7_mA

Mine too!! I loved her SP at 1991 Worlds. When I watch it and listen to the musical accents and rhythms I can recognize that Tonya really was a decently musical skater. Her choreo was but I think she was exceptional in this event. I also LURVE this showy rainbow dress too. Who knew she supported Gay Rights so openly back then?

I was at 1993 Skate America in Dallas for the second video. I was still a TonyaFan then, and you could hear me cheering in the audience for everything she did in that program (especially her DeathDrop). lol. But god was she hard to be a fan of.... but that "rousing ovation" was led by me!!! lol

 

[zigzig]

When?

Try Tuk's combo at the SkCan short - that was 1/2 turn cheated and got called clean and got positive GOE

 

[On My Own]

Try Tuk's combo at the SkCan short - that was 1/2 turn cheated and got called clean and got positive GOE

I took their words to mean that they'd seen tech panelists purposefully mark a half-short combo as "q" on review - not that they'd judged a combo half short, but found that the TP disagreed with them.

 

[tony]

I took their words to mean that they'd seen tech panelists purposefully mark a half-short combo as "q" on review - not that they'd judged a combo half short, but found that the TP disagreed with them.

Following the PBP threads from Skate America, he was sitting close enough behind the technical panel to know exactly which elements were being reviewed.

There have been a lot of calls already this year, and the whole ‘let’s just call it a q’ is an easy way out. Regardless of the angle they are given, a jump that is a full 1/2 rotation short should never have the possibility of getting a clean or q call.

 

[On My Own]

Following the PBP threads from Skate America, he was sitting close enough behind the technical panel to know exactly which elements were being reviewed.

There have been a lot of calls already this year, and the whole ‘let’s just call it a q’ is an easy way out. Regardless of the angle they are given, a jump that is a full 1/2 rotation short should never have the possibility of getting a clean or q call.

Yeah I agree about the calls - I was just curious when, and if they'd really seen it or were just disagreeing. Wonder whom they are talking about, then.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Oops wrong thread... is there no delete option? My apologies.

 

[Erin]

Mine too!! I loved her SP at 1991 Worlds. When I watch it and listen to the musical accents and rhythms I can recognize that Tonya really was a decently musical skater. Her choreo was but I think she was exceptional in this event. I also LURVE this showy rainbow dress too. Who knew she supported Gay Rights so openly back then?

Not just the rainbow dress, but she was skating to Frankie Goes to Hollywood! As far as I'm concerned, that 1991 SP was a gay pride program.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Try Tuk's combo at the SkCan short - that was 1/2 turn cheated and got called clean and got positive GOE

So very happy we changed the Judging system - it has made such a difference in eliminating collusion.

 

[Sylvia]

Sigh, Bradie is listed as "Tennell (withdrawn 11/4)" from CS Warsaw Cup, Nov. 18-21, on USFS' International Assigments page that was updated today.

ETA: I assume she will be listed for CS Golden Spin in Zagreb, Croatia, Dec. 8-11, along with Mariah (and maybe a 3rd?) in the near future. Deadline for entries to be submitted is Friday, November 12, 2021.

 

[On My Own]

Sigh, Bradie is listed as "Tennell (withdrawn 11/4)" from CS Warsaw Cup, Nov. 18-21, on USFS' International Assigments page that was updated today.

Oof. It's going to be very hard for her I think, now.

 

[Karen-W]

Oof. It's going to be very hard for her I think, now.

It's not impossible for her, by a long stretch. She still has her top 10 Worlds finish and as long as she finishes top 3 at Nationals with a score that blows away anyone else in Group 3, she will be named to the team.

 

[Lacey]

Is it unfair or overkill of me to wonder, especially with skaters potentially just coming back from injuries, if this year acceptance to an Olympic Team can be done conditionally (at Nationals?) with skater(s) and the back up substitutes needing to show judges through mini private or public showings of their programs that they are still on track for the big O Team, (how many weeks later?) in the week before the final list of names is due.

That way, anyone like Bradie, who was out for injury this fall, or anyone with new injuries can be correctly selected or rejected up to the last available time.

 

[Karen-W]

Is it unfair or overkill of me to wonder, especially with skaters potentially just coming back from injuries, if this year acceptance to an Olympic Team can be done conditionally (at Nationals?) with skater(s) and the back up substitutes needing to show judges through mini private or public showings of their programs that they are still on track for the big O Team, (how many weeks later?) in the week before the final list of names is due.

That way, anyone like Bradie, who was out for injury this fall, or anyone with new injuries can be correctly selected or rejected up to the last available time.

The selection criteria offers her a path to be named to the team if she competes at Nationals.

 

[Lacey]

The selection criteria offers her a path to be named to the team if she competes at Nationals.

Doesn't answer the question.

 

[Coco]

The selection procedures actually have "place x at Nationals OR successfully petition."

So I read that to mean successfully petition for consideration in lieu of Nationals.

ETA: I didn't understand your question.

Martha K., Is that you you are asking if they have to confirm they are healthy and ready to go?

I'm sure there's something in there about being removed for injury.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

But does that "path" mean she can just show up at USN, land five triples and maybe place top 6 (heck four triples will probably beat an Amber Glenn program if Amber implodes per her usual), and then conditionally be named to the team? That's what I believe is being asked. Or is the team voted/decided on immediately after USN?

 

[VGThuy]

I don't know if there's anything itemized in the selection procedures to have that sort of conditional selection. The USFS seems to only do that in very special circumstances, like with a knee whack taking out their top skater for Nationals but she has promise to be well enough to compete at the Olympics, or a Michelle Kwan 2006 situation.

 

[Vagabond]

Is it unfair or overkill of me to wonder, especially with skaters potentially just coming back from injuries, if this year acceptance to an Olympic Team can be done conditionally (at Nationals?) with skater(s) and the back up substitutes needing to show judges through mini private or public showings of their programs that they are still on track for the big O Team, (how many weeks later?) in the week before the final list of names is due.

You can always wonder, but USFS has already issued its selection criteria and it would be unfair to change them now.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

You can always wonder, but USFS has already issued its selection criteria and it would be unfair to change them now.

I like this selection criteria because it is all laid out. But such a criteria should allow/consider an injured top skater. Bradie doesn't need to be in the TeamEvent, and couldn't she w/d the day before the SP if she isn't ready to compete? And then the alternate could take her place? Like Emily Hughes being immediately available when Kwan was expected to w/d after practicing only once on Oly ice.