What the heck do his political views (or purported political views) have to do with skating team selections? The USFS powers-that-be are far from a hyper-liberal crowd anyway.
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There are a lot of Chinese American conservatives and Trump supporters. I know so many personally. It's also a known fact that a lot of US-born immigrant's children have accents. To say Malinin does not have an accent is also lying to yourself. To be honest, Zhou was considered a prospect to represent CHN earlier in his career. Had he not made the last OG team this could very realistically have happened. I don't think it's an outside shot for Malinin to represent RUS. Full immigrant families are not as pro-USA as the general US public assume.
skatingguy
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Nothing. The discussion on TSL was as to why so many skating fans were willing to have Zhou dropped from the US Olympic team as opposed to Brown in order to make room for Malinin, and one factor that was mentioned was his political views.
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Which is wrong despite my very different political views. I seem to remember Courtney Hicks and Paige Ryberg also getting flack, likewise Zach Donahue. Short of attacks on other skaters’ gender identity or orientation, skaters are entitled to different POV.
skatingguy
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We dislike skaters for many reasons - their hair, their skating skills, jump technique, attitude, personality - so political views are a part of that - not something I really focus on but for some that's going to the thing that turns them off a particular skater or person.
Rukia
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For some people, the political views of a skater are going to be very important, and that's valid. What bothers me is the constant haranguing of skaters on twitter (in this case it's 100% by Fanyus who see Nathan and Vincent as threats). Like if you don't like them then just...don't like them. You don't need some reason to do that. There are skaters I don't like because I think their crossovers are bad, but I don't constantly go "OH LOOK THERE'S BAD CROSSOVERS WHY DO YOU LET THEM SKATE USFS??"
Anyway life is too short to concentrate on what you don't like twitter. Love what you love and focus on that. It's fine.
Karen-W
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I think as long as the skater doesn't bring their politics to their skating then it really shouldn't matter. But, I feel that way about most athletes in general. As long as you leave your politics off the field of play then I'm good with you thinking or believing whatever you want. People who let an athlete's politics bother them need to get over themselves as much as the athletes who think that their athletic achievements give them a soapbox on which to expound their political views for the rest of the world to hear.
I also agree that it's valid for people to care about athletes political views, but the main issue for me is that often fans have no idea what their views are but they decide that it's a certain view based on stuff like liking two Ben Shapiro (which I personally despise) tweets 4 years ago, or attending the white house for the Olympic thing in 2018 (which several athletes did), or even just being open about strong belief in god. That's all it takes for some fans to decide they know that certain skaters are Trump supporters, or transphobic, and so on.
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I think Tom Brady is the GOAT and his former relationship with Trump is just a side note. Lots of privileged white guys are like that.
The one thing that outrages me is athletes using their celebrity for antivax statements because that really risks peoples’ lives, but again they unquestionably have the right to say what they want.
The one thing that outrages me is athletes using their celebrity for antivax statements because that really risks peoples’ lives, but again they unquestionably have the right to say what they want.
AYS
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Fandom is an emotional and subjective thing, I don't think there is any right or wrong about why you end up rooting for an athlete, or not liking them. I find that often (usually) it's not a rational decision - as I've said before, the uberness (or lack thereof) choses me 
So, for some, knowing about political views will end up mattering; I don't see it as a should or shouldn't. It is what it is.
So, for some, knowing about political views will end up mattering; I don't see it as a should or shouldn't. It is what it is.I just feel that if your going to attack people for seeing the world differently than you than maybe you are not as tolerant as you think you are.
People can disagree and still treat each other with kindness. The point of a pluralistic society is the allowance of different views.
To be Frank I had never even heard the term non binary until like maybe this year. A decade ago I would have been like huh.
There are absolutely going to be people more than a little sceptical.m given all this and they probably might be willing to be like well you do you. But aren’t being cool with being called bigoted
None is going to really be won over by being called intolerant or bigoted. They are going to just roll their eyes. And vote for someone like Trump.
I am very concerned with the way I see society developing. And it’s not so much non binary or things like that but rather the lack of the ability to have meaningful discussions or respect for other points of view. It’s both sides
People can disagree and still treat each other with kindness. The point of a pluralistic society is the allowance of different views.
To be Frank I had never even heard the term non binary until like maybe this year. A decade ago I would have been like huh.
There are absolutely going to be people more than a little sceptical.m given all this and they probably might be willing to be like well you do you. But aren’t being cool with being called bigoted
None is going to really be won over by being called intolerant or bigoted. They are going to just roll their eyes. And vote for someone like Trump.
I am very concerned with the way I see society developing. And it’s not so much non binary or things like that but rather the lack of the ability to have meaningful discussions or respect for other points of view. It’s both sides
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VGThuy
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Some people aren't worth having discussions with - and that goes on both sides. The problem I have with the way people decide to not like a skater for political views they espouse, which I find valid, is the way it's only really pretext to hate on a skater you find to be a threat to your fave. On skating Twitter, it seems the only unproblematic skater to ever exist is Yuzuru Hanyu, and that's because he doesn't say anything. Nobody knows how he really feels, but because of that, he's safe to project one's values onto. It's like you can't just keep fandom about skating skills, but you have to add personal reasons as to why your fave is better than their rivals.
I also find that one someone adopts a view, they are super inflexible even when facing evidence that the skater they despite isn't actually as bad as you assumed they were.
Another thing I add to the political thing is that unlike Tom Brady or many other athletes who are older and have more positions of power to speak their mind and do so, most of these skaters are very sheltered, don't have much life experience or exposure to people outside the skating bubble despite how well-traveled they are, and are still teenagers or in their early 20s. People are still learning and forming their opinions at those ages. Now, if they are doubling down and won't budge from a controversial position they adopted, then sure, prescribe it to them until they show you otherwise, but maybe it's because I'm in my thirties, but it's like, I don't take people's opinions at 18, especially pre-college and if those skaters are mainly home schooled, too seriously unless they really ride or die with them.
I also find that one someone adopts a view, they are super inflexible even when facing evidence that the skater they despite isn't actually as bad as you assumed they were.
Another thing I add to the political thing is that unlike Tom Brady or many other athletes who are older and have more positions of power to speak their mind and do so, most of these skaters are very sheltered, don't have much life experience or exposure to people outside the skating bubble despite how well-traveled they are, and are still teenagers or in their early 20s. People are still learning and forming their opinions at those ages. Now, if they are doubling down and won't budge from a controversial position they adopted, then sure, prescribe it to them until they show you otherwise, but maybe it's because I'm in my thirties, but it's like, I don't take people's opinions at 18, especially pre-college and if those skaters are mainly home schooled, too seriously unless they really ride or die with them.
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Honestly, I think the idea of “dislike” being so normalized is one of the more toxic parts of fan culture. It’s fine to not enjoy someone’s skating. And it’s reasonable to call someone out when they’re actively harming others (including hate speech, etc.). But most of us don’t know these athletes, and with a few exceptions of people who say terrible things in public, we have no real basis to form a negative opinion of them as human beings. Especially in skating, we’re talking about a lot of kids and young adults who aren’t even done figuring themselves out yet. I think it’s fine to decide you like someone based on limited information, but disliking a stranger from television might be worth a moment of self-reflection.
I will say that despite all the Jason vs. Ilia discussion we’ve had here, Vincent is the one who seems to attract the most vicious trolls elsewhere online. It’s really unfortunate and he doesn’t deserve that.
Wyliefan
Ubering juniors against my will
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DING DING DING, we have a winner.
kwanfan1818
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I think people should have to justify why or why they don't like a particular skater, and that includes their political views.
Where it shouldn't have any influence is with the judges, tech panel, coaches, rink owners, or Federations.
Where it shouldn't have any influence is with the judges, tech panel, coaches, rink owners, or Federations.
skatingguy
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I don't think disliking something based on relatively superficial qualities is fan culture, it's human nature. We are specialists at making snap judgments based on limited information.
It might depend on your definition of “dislike.” I can get to “meh, not a fan” pretty easily, but I think of dislike as a more active reaction against someone or something that I don’t feel as often. (And it may or may not be a good reason, hence the self-reflection.) But it’s one of those words that means something different to different people.
mtnskater
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Ilia or his family said in earlier interviews they were not planning for him to make the Olympic team in 2022. 2026 was their plan. So the fact that he somewhat unexpectedly skated lights out at U.S. Nationals, but wasn’t selected because the U.S. happens to have three solid, internationally competetive senior men who meet the Olympic selection criteria ahead of him, doesn’t appear likely to be a surprise to him. They knew he was a long shot for the team this year, and the senior B result he had just a month or so before certainly did him no favors. As did the crud which canceled juniors last year. The crud has hurt a lot of skaters. Alysa for example. However, she was lucky the U.S. ladies field is not as deep as the men’s.
Although his parents were Russian born they must have skated for Uzbekistan for a reason. Maybe they are not fans of the Russian skating federation. They chose to live in the U.S. and not Russia after their skating careers. And for Ilia to be born in the USA. I seem to recall in the past Russia requiring its skaters to live and train in Russia with Russian coaches. Obviously Diana Davis is exempt from that. I doubt Ilia wants to relocate there since I noticed at Nationals that he has also started to consult with Raf.
Personally I think fans that were upset Ilia wasn’t named to the team should just cut the hysteria about switching countries.
sk9tingfan
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I wouldn't be surprised if he relocated to Arutunian's group after this season, based on comments Raf made in conjunction with Ilia's non-selection to the team.
mtnskater
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What did RAF say?
sk9tingfan
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He was very critical of US Figure Skating.
Rafael Arutyunyan: “Not inclusion of Ilia Malinin into the Olympic national team shows flagrantly unprofessional approach”
Rafael Arutyunyan criticized the decision not to include Ilia Malinin into the US national team for the Beijing Olympics.
fs-gossips.com
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sk9tingfan
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I found an appended the article.
I've been thinking this a lot. At some point ages ago someone mentioned Brown not being with an influential USFSA club and coach - which is true, but the Cricket Club and Orser are a HIGHLY influential group when it comes to international influence.
Ilia is Malinina and Skorniakov's first major student. They have no political power, not having represented the US before. They represented Uzbekistan, which also has no political power. And prior to his death they trained with Igor Ksenofontov, who also had no political power, constantly having his top students moved to Moscow or Leningrad (half of all those Zhuk pairs in the 70s and 80s were originally his pairings. Heck he was part of Marina Klimova's coaching team in juniors).
With no political backing at all, with this complicated a selection criteria, Malinin had no shot. I am glad Raf is set up to take him on next year, I actually trust his coaching.
Yeah they had no shot. However is this really a good thing?
I do think Jason would have benefited from a change really because even Carroll said his technique was not good for quads.
Alyssa maybe too. But Ilia has very very good technique. Clearly his parents know what they are doing. Of course it helps that he has first class teaching from day one.
I actually think one of the problems with US skating is the lack of younger coaches. In comparison to what is happening with Russia.
These are coaches that USFSA should be mentoring.
Doesn’t Rafael want to retire to?
Maybe him in the consulting role is the best one.
kwanfan1818
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There are lots of reasons they might have skated for Uzbekistan: the ability to compete, especially after the break-up of the Soviet Union, when they weren't limited to the top 1/2/3 in Russia, for example. That doesn't mean they have any bad feelings at all about Russia or the Russian Fed. I'm guessing at least some of the skaters who were granted passports from Georgia or Azerbaijan or other EU countries don't have hard feelings against their former Feds, and certainly not their former countries.
Likewise people who choose to work in another country. A lot of coaches left Russia, because the working conditions were very difficult, until the Fed and government got organized, with the Sochi Olympics being a big driver. (Example, coaches having to buy fuel for the zamboni.) A lot of them stayed in the US, Canada, Australia, etc. and stayed because they had relationships or children, and some went back later, like Rodnina, Krylova, and Karsonopov. It doesn't mean they don't like where they are, but it also doesn't mean they have cut their ties with Russia. And it doesn't mean that, were one of Margolio's kids to compete for Finland, where they've grown up, that that is anything against the Italian Fed (for their sport).
Perhaps in the Sochi cycle all skaters had to train in Russia, but the prohibition, for at least a while, was against Russian coaches in Russia taking on foreign students. At least Domina/Shabalin trained in the US with Linichuk/Karsonopov, Makarova with her parents and then Zmievskaia/Petrenko for the 2010 Olympic season. I'm not sure where Morozov's traveling circus was in 2014 (Ilinyk/Katsalapov). I don't think it's surprising that Davis/Smolin are able to train with Shpilband, since it's Ice Dance.
It doesn't mean that you're wrong in Malinin's case, but there are other possibilities.
Actually his parents said they considered him skating for Russia but felt there was to much talent there. Uzbekistan no funding and I read somewhere they felt it hurt their results. So US it was.
Seeing European men’s short they might have made the right call even if screwed this time.
Don’t the Russians see Igor as one of their own I mean he competed for the Soviets.
kwanfan1818
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Shpilband and Zoueva created the intitial North American dominance, so I'm not sure they think of Shpilband as one of their own. Unless he's had a change-of-heart/shift-of-priorities, I don't know that he'd agree to putting all Russian dancers at the top of his list.
thvu
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That’s a very simplistic view of modern teenagers.
Having listened to Ilia speak for an extended period of time, and having spent years around Modern American Teenagers, he speaks and sounds just like any other high school student in the US. Does he speak with an accent when speaking Russian or saying Russian names? Of course. Like many bilingual people, he can code switch. Though, for you to say we are lying to ourselves for believing what we can readily hear for ourselves is utterly ridiculous.
They are still a product from the Russian system and both have said this so has RAF.
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I think it is good for Ilia to work with Raf, not because Tatiana & Roman aren't obviously incredible coaches, but because of the situation I'm describing. I think of Raf as both a solid technical coach AND politician. He needs both now, clearly, so this crap never happens to him again.
And YES! His parents VERY clearly know what they are doing! I think they are EXCELLENT coaches - truly. If the USFSA was smart they'd help them develop. And they are in DC, an area where they can actually develop talent because people can pay for this exceptionally expensive sport there. AND if the USFSA were smart they would have Raf mentor them - hopefully something like that is already organically happening. I honestly don't have a ton of trust in the USFSA coaches based out of Colorado Springs.
It would be brilliant to develop a new hub in the DC area kind of like how at one point U of D had the Luddingtons, Priscilla Hill, Linichuk & Karponosov, Pam Gregory and I know I am forgetting other really great coaches. Esp with now two ice dance academies in the area.
Thing is, I don't trust the USFSA has the vision for the future in that way. They already show their lack of vision for the future in not sending Ilia Malinin to the Olympics.
